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- Thread starter makiri
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In reality, Vash and 616 did exactly what the majority of us probably would have done. If you have the potential to gurantee your spot in the finals of an international tournament, would you have continued the match and possibly put yourself in the position where you could be eliminated later on? I know I wouldn't have. Yes, it completely screwed zerowing, but thats the game.
gosh how confusing...so there was no self k.o clause? or there was a self k.o clause but you could avoid it by declaring a tie between two players? ooh well there found somebody a grey zone in the rules...
anyways concratulations to all who have made it...see you in San Diego i will cheer everyone there lol ;D
anyways concratulations to all who have made it...see you in San Diego i will cheer everyone there lol ;D
If your only loss is to the player who goes 5-0, and that loss is the final loss of the day, you're going to make top 4.
Yeah, that's like Nintendo breaking their own rules. If they didn't intend on enforcing self-ko clause they should have taken it out of the rules.
He also put himself in the position where he would get the loss anyway since he broke one of the rules.
Allowing intentional draws isn't a particularly unusual practise. I know the Pokemon TCG allowed intentional draws many years ago. I'm not sure if they still do or if it extends to the video games tournaments.
No way would I go that far. Flights 2 and 4 (orange and yellow) were jokes. Really only IPL emerged from them and all of the matches from these flights that I observed were absolutely disastrous.
The other two flights (green and purple) were stacked with our guys and some of the other top players. As far as I'm concerned, if you were in either of these flights, you had an uphill battle all day.
Exactly. Its a strategy, everyone went in with one. Sidd even changed his throughout the day. It was the strategy they used and they should be happy they realized they could both secure themselves a spot.
I am particularly surprised by Vash because it sounds like he could have secured his spot regardless. In the end, he helped another Smogoner, so why is he getting trashed?
Well, it appears that he didn't because he is still in the competition and tied first place in one of the four areas.
From what zerowing said, Vash had the upper hand, but instead of beating 616, he offered him the ability to tie which in turn would maintain their records of 4-0, thus securing their spots because they were the only ones without a loss. I was referring to "secure your spot" in the sense that they guranteed themselves a spot in the top 4.
Because he could have allowed a better smogoner (by his own words, he should have lost to zerowing) to get in to the top 4. I am with zerowing on this one, they did not think of the consequences of their actions and acted foolishly.
616's Opponent's Win % isn't that much higher than 3rd and 4th place. The 3-2's with the highest Opponent's Win % are also pretty close to 616's. It would depend on what the Round 4 results looked like, but I have doubts the Round 4 results indicate 616 as a 100% lock to finish in the Top 4 if 616 lost the last match and even if they did, I'm not sure it was obvious enough for them to notice without having to do a bunch of calculations and theortetical scenarios.
Wow dude, harsh. So was the 2 point Infracture, I though you were only kidding, lol. I guess that can be removed (by you?) if somehow Infracts add up and get me to ICBB though. <3
However, I believe the 2 below quotes pretty much sum up my feelings, though I will add a bit at the end:
Well basically, it was like this:
Even before the match, I somewhat jokingly said "We should both just click "run" and have a draw haha, I mean were both in anyway, right?" I had already made my moves, and apparently 616 did not. I noticed he had Metagross, and I asked if it had Explosion and wanted to tie it up to secure his spot. We both knew I pretty much won (until I told him that I didn't protect, but he would have had to explode anyway. I gave him no more info other then 'Your Meta is definately faster then my Swine'), which is why I brought it up. We had the only 2 flawless recoreds, and we knew it, so we just felt that we both deserved to head to the Worlds. So we went with the Explosion (If not, his Meta was dead via Earthquake). The judges crowded around and we told them it was a planned tie, and 616 even admitted to being the Explosion user. Marriland himself okayed it, after they brought up the recent (as of pre-Japan tournaments) rules changes. If not, we would have rematched, simple as that.
Wing, I'm sorry that that most likely screwed over your trip, but it can not be helped now. I apologize. The scenario I described above is exactly how it happened. If you think it's fucked up to help a fellow Smogoner secure a spot 100%, then I honestly have nothing to say after that.
And for the record, yes, you are better then me, but everybody knows that without me admiting it.
To be fair, if you're playing in a tournament to win prizes, your first priority should be on getting as far as you can yourself, other players be damned. If calling a draw is the safest way to guarantee yourself a spot, and is allowed by the rules, what Vash/616 did was a smart move. The one-turn sleep was unfortunate, but that's "part of the game," and Vash did nothing wrong by capitalizing on it as much as possible.
Though, if self-KO clause was part of the rules and Zerowing got screwed by not enforcing it, that's something else entirely.
All of them are good or they wouldn't have gotten their in the first place. I am upset that zerowing didn't make it in because I was here when everyone was trying for those spots last year. I think he did deserve a spot. Im just saying, Vash had the potential to help a fellow smogoner, which he did. Had he beaten 616, then that spot would have been left open to whoever had the highest percent, which could or could not have been a smogoner. It is for that reason, that I think that they must have been some thought process behind their decision. In the end, as its been said numerous times already, the game is one of luck. Zerowing lost to Vash through luck and it ended unfortunately for him. You can't expect someone to ruin their own chances for someone else and more importantly, you can't get mad at them for it. What would you have done in that situation?
Rules are rules. If I see Mike Liesek to describe how I felt about my not getting selected in Philadelphia, I'll tell him I got eliminated from a computer random number generator before I could even get to round 1.
OK, if zerowing actually infracted vash because he caused him to lose, I think that's a little childish. While I understand being frustrated about what happened, I don't think power abuse is the right solution. Now moving on to what vash said, I don't think he (vash) was TRYING to force zerowing out. If anyone is insinuating that, I would disagree with them heartily. He was trying to be kind to sixonesix, but he did not think of the possible repercussions of his actions. In the end, I agree with Syberia. I would have rather Vash go for the win and knock both sixonesix and zerowing out than tie and knock zerowing out. Think of yourself, other people be damned.
How exactly did they calculate "Opponent's Win %"? I would have thought it was "number of times your opponents won" divided by "number of times your opponents battled" but that would always produce percentages that were a multiple of 4. I'm guessing they accounted for the margin of victory somehow?
While this part is true, I think what he did was better though. At that point, he couldn't have done anything that he knew of to effect zerowing's standings, but he did know that he could help 616.
Well tad, think about it. Why wouldn't Vash want to force zerowing out? I'm not saying that he purposely wanted him out either, but he's probably one of the best VGC players Smogon has, and Vash's usual chances of beating him are pretty slim. Now, what Vash and Sixonesix did imo was fucking retarded, they should've just played it out like any other and had one winner, not a tie.
Welcome to video game forum moderating.
Vash and 616 were 4-0 in the final round, so if 616 lost like he should have, he would still have a high percentage cause he lost to the best person in the last round. I would think it would be like that at least. Also, this would mean zerowing would have had a better percentage also, and the people who lost to 616 a worse percentage.
It's an average of all of one's opponent's combined records.
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