Skillmons [Coming back soon™]

[QxC4eva]

the point is effects happen if 100 effect points are cumulated and 30% would grant 30 EP which times 100 is 3000 which divided by 100 is 30 which is the amount of times it will activate(assuming its possible for the effect to activate on the opposing pokemon)

No that's not how statistics work. It's a reason why I said I disliked the points system and that going no-points is a fairer option. I wish Monte Cristo had explained why, as I don't know much about stats myself (middle school atm -_-) but I'll try. Probability has no beginning. If you sequence it with RNG, you'd assume it starts at a "midpoint" and only after the first round is it safe to approximate with a steady point cycle to infinity. Expected no. of activations in a 30% secondary move executed 100 times:
= 1 + [(100 - ln(0.5) / ln(1 - 0.3)) * 0.3]
= 1 + ((100 - 1.9434) * 0.3)
= 1 + (98.057 * 0.3)
= 30.4 ---> so not "exactly 30"

Another example is the OU cutoff usage; 1 in 20 encounter rate becomes 3.41% (not 1/20 = 5%). And it's also why that in reality, Scald usually burns on the 2nd try, more often than the 3rd or 4th when according to our points model. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Solution? If we go points, both players start the battle with 50 EP on each stat. Perhaps that'll mimic the RNG better.

 

[Joim]

So tl;dr how to misunderstand statistics? Cause I hope you know statistics don't work this way (and I know you probably do, knowing you, you're pretty decently smart) and this just makes no sense to implement aside to please people who don't understand stats?

(and post above) I'm going for what people expect. Otherwise, I could just remove secondaries, since every individual chance has its own dice roll and it is not connected and not affected by past states. Hax is stochastic, not deterministic. Obviously it's going to change if I'm doing such a big change as is changing a stochastic system to a deterministic one.

The main idea is to keep secondary effects as part of the game, but make them a strategy element, not a luck one. Feel free to discuss alternatives, of course.

Edit: Adding Focus Band:
Edit: I could make it so it makes the damage to 10% if it's a killing blow or make it a clone of focus sash. Ideas?

 

[Joim]

I've updated most moves on the server and the format itself.
Replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/joimslab-skillmonsou-2432

 

[Bryce]

Don't know if this was mentioned but all those catalysts in determining speed ties really necessary? Shouldn't it be simpler and more logical to make both Pokemons hit their attacks?

And a minor fix should be with Zoom Lens since as far as I know, it only works in the original game if the user moves second. Right now, it's just a superior version of Wide Lens.

 

[Throbulator36]

if possible it would be more flavorful in the case of speed ties that neither pokemon can faint until both pokemon have moved.

ie. mon1 does 100% to mon2 but mon2 gets to hit mon1 before it dies since they in actuality hit at the same time.

 

[tehy]

Throb, cool idea, but what about Taunt speed ties, or speed ties of, say, Attack vs. Substitute/recover/will-o-wisp? Taunt speed ties can especially be a factor in lead matchups; even if you allow both Taunts to connect though, the above example of attack vs will-o-wisp is problematic.

 

[Throbulator36]

Throb, cool idea, but what about Taunt speed ties, or speed ties of, say, Attack vs. Substitute/recover/will-o-wisp? Taunt speed ties can especially be a factor in lead matchups; even if you allow both Taunts to connect though, the above example of attack vs will-o-wisp is problematic.

since they'd connect at the same time I'd say that the attack that turn would be unaffected by wow recover would heal half before and after and sub would set up the moment the attack connects so the attack that turn hits through sub. not sure if it can work like that though.

 

[Enerdy]

since they'd connect at the same time I'd say that the attack that turn would be unaffected by wow recover would heal half before and after and sub would set up the moment the attack connects so the attack that turn hits through sub. not sure if it can work like that though.

It'd probably be way more complicated to rewrite the battle system for all the exceptional cases. I feel like the crazy amount of checks is both easier and makes more sense competitively.

 

[Joim]

Exactly.

 

[Bryce]

Are those really exceptional cases? I mean, the mechanic would be the effect of both moves activating, so I don't think the taunt vs taunt or attack vs sub scenarios mentioned is that complicated.

The modification of moves by multiplying it with it's accuracy doesn't actually remove the luck factor imo, but rather force the player to choose the more reliable alternative. It's basically removing the choice a player has of Power vs Reliability in the original game rather than making the game "luck-free". So I personally think this is pointless when it comes to removing the accuracy related luck and just unnecessarily restricts a player's options. It would be more suited to the objective of this mod if a non-random drawback is added to high bp moves rather than changing their Base Power and making Flamethrower vs Fire Blast similar to Dragon Claw vs Outrage or Return vs Double Edge. The drawback could be something that matches the move flavor wise. Another option could be making these high bp moves simply a Life Orb'ed version of their safer versions meaning keeping their bp as it is and introducing 10% recoil. This seems logical in the sense that these low accuracy high BP moves are usually 30-40% stronger than the reliable ones and have reduced accuracy as their drawback which would be replaced by recoil.

 

[Artemis Fowl]

I've just read the rule so I am utterly incompetent about this tier, but i'm wondering about one thing : In charge system, why is the first effect applied at 100 charges ?
It sounds to me it should be applied at 50 charge (then 150, 250....), just as the mathematical average. Otherwise it lowers the interest of plenty of moves, especially as it does really matter, since few moves are used.
Who will use Scald when it only applies the first burn at 4th try, instead of, in average, 2nd ?
Also, 100 charge means, for low secondary effects odds moves, to have their 2nd effect simply removed.
Fire Blast, 10% chance to burn ? 8 PP. Ok :(

50% being the first cap looks more interesting, and sticks more to the average reality.

Feel free to explain me how shitty this idea might be tho, as i am fully ignorant of ongoing discussions.


PS : Anger Point: If this Pokémon is hit by a super effective attack, its Attack is raised to +6.
I also think this is far too strong
At least it should be +3 or +4, so that Weakness Policy Anger Point sets might be something

 

[QxC4eva]

I agree with Bryce that it's not necessary to have all those tiebreaking rules. It's extremely rare to tie past the first two rules, so all we're doing is adding complexity. No matter how many rules we have, it's not going to tiebreak identical teams anyway, so why not keep it simple? How about the player with more remaining time moves first, and if that's a tie - coin flip. This already accounts for 99.999% of all cases before resorting to the inevitable.

Rules like "faster team moves first" inheritly offer the advantage to offensive playstyles, are easily invalidated by identical teams, and just downright complicates things :I

Are those really exceptional cases? I mean, the mechanic would be the effect of both moves activating, so I don't think the taunt vs taunt or attack vs sub scenarios mentioned is that complicated.

The modification of moves by multiplying it with it's accuracy doesn't actually remove the luck factor imo, but rather force the player to choose the more reliable alternative. It's basically removing the choice a player has of Power vs Reliability in the original game rather than making the game "luck-free". So I personally think this is pointless when it comes to removing the accuracy related luck and just unnecessarily restricts a player's options. It would be more suited to the objective of this mod if a non-random drawback is added to high bp moves rather than changing their Base Power and making Flamethrower vs Fire Blast similar to Dragon Claw vs Outrage or Return vs Double Edge. The drawback could be something that matches the move flavor wise. Another option could be making these high bp moves simply a Life Orb'ed version of their safer versions meaning keeping their bp as it is and introducing 10% recoil. This seems logical in the sense that these low accuracy high BP moves are usually 30-40% stronger than the reliable ones and have reduced accuracy as their drawback which would be replaced by recoil.

You have a good point but if I'm not mistaken, the #1 objective is to make it so everything is predictable. Any acts of improving the metagame would best come after this is sorted out (but that's up to Joim). As for the speed tie thing; it's basically rewriting the entire engine. If you activate both moves "at the same time" you create two different game states. How do you combine both states into one?

EDIT:

50% being the first cap looks more interesting, and sticks more to the average reality.

^^^^ this. What I mentioned earlier on =] But rather than cap, it should start at 50.

 

[Artemis Fowl]

The caps being 50/150/250,etc is the exact same as starting as 50 and the caps being 100/200/300,etc

 

[warriorman222]

PS : Anger Point: If this Pokémon is hit by a super effective attack, its Attack is raised to +6.
I also think this is far too strong
At least it should be +3 or +4, so that Weakness Policy Anger Point sets might be something

Considering the only non-terrible mon that gets it is Krookodile, I think that sort of ability is fine. Especially when none of the mons who get it are going to living neutral hits, let alone S.E ones. You'd need Focus Sash, not Weakness Policy.

 

[Akashi]

yes dark has 3 resists it would be pretty op

 

[Xylen]

After playing a few games, and watching some, I've come to realize Sleep has become a really strong status.

Not only does Sleep (Hypnosis ,Sing, etc) not miss, it also last for two turns (works like rest). While it doesnt seem that strong at first, pair it up with a fast Pokemon with Substitute, and you basically are getting free hits off for the cost of 25% hp. It earns itself a free switch, or chance to set up. This either cost the opposing to take massive damage while switching in, or stay in and wait till you wake up. A few examples that can do this well are Gengar and Crobat (the most common), and some that can get the job done are Jolteon Sceptile and Persian.

 

[Joim]

There's a reason I put sleep clause on. I knew Sleep was going to be good, only you now know exactly what happens with it. Kinda getting back the sleep absorber role from gen 1, lol.

50% being the first cap looks more interesting, and sticks more to the average reality.

It could start at 50 points, but I still dislike the average reality distribution.

 

[Joim]

I've implemented the point system starting with 50 as of now.

 

[Artemis Fowl]

What about keeping Spore as the only status to instantly put to sleep ?
It was always meant to be like that. Giving hypnosis 100% acc without drawback is like making 5 times as more pokemon being able to use sleep properly.
Including fast ones.
A 50% charge mechanic on hypnosis wouldn't hurt, especially if it starts at 50.

 

[FlameUser64]

What about keeping Spore as the only status to instantly put to sleep ?
It was always meant to be like that. Giving hypnosis 100% acc without drawback is like making 5 times as more pokemon being able to use sleep properly.
Including fast ones.
A 50% charge mechanic on hypnosis wouldn't hurt, especially if it starts at 50.

Don't forget Sing and Grasswhistle lol. 100% accuracy, no drawback, ignores Substitutes.

 

[Joim]

You know? You are actually right. I'm making give them as much points as their old accuracy. They will still hit the first time due to starting with 50 points anyways, it's just less broken afterwards.

 

[Oshony PokeGod]

tri attack is broken and doesnt accumalte any points at all

 

[Akashi]

no to mention zygdare seems really op with sub/coil its one of those mons u have to look out for

 

[Jack Dalton]

http://prntscr.com/5tvjfz

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/joimslab-skillmonsou-2618

Fun fact: you can burn a burned pokemon and it damages them twice at the end of the turn!

Extra burns wear off on the switch, but other than that it seems like you can just throw burns out and rack up the residual damage. Please fix

 

[Amaluna]

I've been playing this quite a bit now and I can say, even though some things have yet to be fixed / updated, this is, in my opinion, one of the most entertaining metas released.
We discovered some major threats in the tier that I would like to point out to you guys.
Here are some pokemon that we noticed to have a lot of potential in this meta:

Octillery might become a massive threat in Trick Room if you know how to use it. With Moody it get +2 Special Attack and -2 Speed, every turn I might add. Making it ideal for Trick Room. And with such an amazing movepool, this thing will mess up your entire team if not prepared. Obviously it requires Trick Room to bring it to its full potential and it's not the bulkiest pokemon in existance, this thing can still rip holes in your team with his movepool and coverage within.

Garchomp, Aerodactyl-Mega, Absol-Mega and Salamence might be the best abusers of Hone Claws. Hone Claws giving them +2 Attack and +1 Special Attack is very useful because the afore mentioned pokemon tend to carry a special move for coverage, in most cases this is Fire Blast. Also, Aerodactly being one of the pokemon that lacks good Flying type STAB moves, defonitely appreciated the small power buff to Aerial Ace. Which now also ignores defense changes.

Durant is obviously extremely powerful and fast to mess up your team. Hustle got an extreme buff and Durant doesn't mind that at all. This little thing has a decent movepool which include strong STABs, great coverage moves and even Baton Pass. On the down side is really frail and thus hard to set up. But nonetheless, this thing is not something to mess around with.

Bisharp, obviously amazing because in Gen 6 Defog got a buff and Bisharp with Defiant likes to abuse it to his favor. And not just that, in Skillmons Defog lowers both defenses by 1 stage. This means Bisharp gets +4 in 1 turn. And with Sucker Punch being bugged at the moment, where as it doesn't matter if they use an attacking move or not and you still get priority on it, this thing rips up teams.

Gengar has been mentioned before, but I didn't want to exclude him. As said before, this thing with a solid speed stat tends to be one of the best abusers of Hypnosis. Focus Blast is 100% accurate now for which you trade a bit of power, this is still the move to run on Gengar. Ghost / Fighting has amazing neutral coverage and there for Gengar is a huge ass threat.

Breloom is also a pretty good pokemon in the Skillmons meta. With Dynamic Punch being 100% accurate and nerfed to 50 base power, Technician Breloom likes to make that 100. (probably should be 75, but I'll let Joim handle that.) This thing now also hits 3 times guaranteed with Bullet Seed, which are 30 base power per hit. And also has access to a Sleep inducing move being Spore.

Zygarde, MASSIVE threat. This pokemon is bulky on both sides, with a solid HP stat and even has access to priority, powerful, pretty much unresisted stabs and Coil. Coil might not sounds like the best move, until you realize it gives you +2 Attack, +1 Defense and +1 Special Attack. Dragon Ground is only resisted by a few things, such as Togekiss. And Zygarde has no trouble getting around those with Stone Edge.

Mega Lopunny is blessed with an amazing ability to go with his typing. High Jump Kick being 100% accurate, STAB and have 0 pokemon being immune to that is rather scary. Further does it have a great movepool which include supporting moves such as Encore, Healing Wish and Heal Bell. It also checks Gengar. Obviously it can't switch in to one, but it outspeed and OHKOs with Frustration / Return.

I encourage all of you people reading this to give this meta a try. I personally do not like the OU tier, but Skillmons made it a lot of fun for me. Hopefully you guys like it as well.

And I think I speak on behalf of everyone when I say; thanks a lot, Joim, for creating this!