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Forretress' niche, imo, is a hazard setter that preserves momentum with a slow volt-switch and the ability to spin away hazards as well. He works so well on volt-turn teams. Mega-Scizor uses up a mega, which could have been used for Mega-Manectric instead, and he can't use hazards himself.

Does this thing's Gyro Ball even hurt neutral targets?

Guts+Facade is old, i'm not getting what's new here. Old Guts negated the burn attack decrease anyways, so there is no difference between old guts/burn/facade than today's. This is referring to all the talk about the various guts users.

Quick question - say two priority users go under trick room- who goes first? Chou Edit: The slower one (lower speed). Try to use SQSA thread in the future.

Who uses Noivern as a tank?

Out of pure curiosity, does anyone have any calcs for comparison of these? Say, Choice specs noivern vs scarf flygon? (Because Flygon isn't outrunning much without it, and noivern isn't hitting that hard without specs. Noivern also doesn't need scarf to outrun much, so that calc is pretty...

Harder special attacks? I mean, that's like saying Hydreigon hits harder than Garchomp, because 105/125 offenses compared to 130/80. One has a better mixed while the other has a more focused offense.

Latios doesn't have U-turn. The thing about choice sets is generally you want that turn anyways, not for the damage, but for the momentum. Comparison to Flygon is meh, seeing as Noivern hits harder. The outspeeding part is pretty important actually. Frisk is way more useful than it looks...

Gastrodon effectively walling Rotom-W for everything it uses bar the rare Hidden power grass meant it was an ideal switch-in. I know there were other factors. I was speaking mainly of last gen :L for that one comment. Either way, the point is, it'd still be good even if Talonflame was never used.

What. Bulky with good offenses, has multiple sets, can set up either a fast or slow volt switch, has good coverage, counters more than just TFlame, was one of the most used pokes last gen, was the reason why Gastrodon usage shot up back then, and you're telling me it wouldn't be popular?

When i said nearly every support move, i basically meant screens, WoW, twave, encore, heal bell, Wish, and of course those self-ko moves. (There are obviously others, but those were the ones that i was basically referring to).

The thing about Gardevoir is it has a larger offensive movepool in general. You can also run a bulky support type, using Gardevoir's special bulk and use its excellent support movepool (which it literally has anything one could want except a reliable recovery).

I'm glad you mentioned that, as I always thought of it but was too afraid to speak up, since it almost seems commonly "accepted" that Tyranitar is good to go. He might be weak to physical fighting attacks, but he can strike back the users hard himself, as the pure fighting types are rare, and...

Noivern was underhyped. Look, the difference here is you say people overhyped it, but in reality, almost no one paid attention to it, when it's just a solid, good revenge killer that hits a unique speed tier while having two good abilities. You're calling it terrible, but I have no problems...

Makes sense, i guess. There were still times when I wish I could just click Boomburst and get ready to Draco Meteor something else afterwards.

If anyone's compared them, can anyone tell me what important KOs Noivern misses if he goes Life orb over choice specs? Assuming both are timid nature, max spatk/max spd ev.

Are you saying that in that Mandibuzz is good, or bad (like, are you talking to people who's called it bad this entire gen or this pokemon is really good)?

Forretress should be B ranked as a defensive support still, imo. His ability to lay down 3 different hazards + spin them at the same time, as well as having the option to go for a slow volt switch to preserve advantage, is still very valuable. Sturdy is still useful for those who love the custap...

I don't get how what you're saying refers to what I'm saying. The person I quoted said priority isn't that strong, which I agree with, but then say one of the reasons is because priority is commonly just a 40 BP move (sometimes increased with stab). I just pointed out one of the biggest...

Agree for the most part, but this is why I believe Talonflame's hype to be justified, as its not a 40BP priority in its case, not 90 (scizor bullet punch), not even 120 (Arceus Extremespeed) but a 160 BP priority. Yes, his base attack is a bit low, but it's still far above the average mach...