AAA Viability Rankings #∞

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approved by The Immortal on PS' OM chat and AAA Leader Kl4ng said it was okay too. First edition was approved by Arcticblast. Thanks to aesf, Kl4ng and Monte Cristo for hosting it in the past.



(art by Bummer)

Welcome to the AAA Viability Rankings! Here, we'll try to accurately represent the current state of the Almost Any Ability metagame and attempt to rank all Pokemon in ranks, so you can see which Pokemon define the metagame and which are barely viable. You're free to post about any Pokemon and what rank they should have, but please try to give arguments if you argue for a ranking change. Good arguments are generally why a Pokemon flourishes in the current metagame, supported by calculations and/or replays. But mind, the replays can't be the only reason or it'll become anecdotal. Tell us what a Pokemon does, why it excels at it and what Pokemon it can take on, or can't take on.

The Viability Ranking consists of four ranks: S, A, B, C and D. Several of these have subranks to divide the Pokemon in there even more. However, there won't be a segregation between Pokemon which fulfill different roles. Pokemon in the same subrank are listed alphabetically and thus it does not indicate viability.

AAA ORAS Ranking Tier List
Common abilities added by Pagoose 09/12/2014
S Rank:

  • S Rank
- Doublade - Regenerator, Flash Fire, Levitate
- Skarmory - Gale Wings, Flash Fire, Intimidate, Delta Stream, Unaware, Mold Breaker, Prankster


A Rank:

  • High A Rank
- Aegislash - Stance Change
- Braviary - Gale Wings, Poison Heal
- Deoxys-S - Mold Breaker, Download, Sheer Force
- Entei - Refrigerate, Tinted Lens, Desolate Land, Pixilate
- Gengar - Sheer Force, No Guard, Normalize
- Heatran - Desolate Land, Chlorophyll, Magnet Pull, Levitate, Mold Breaker, Regenerator

- Honchkrow - Gale Wings, Adaptability
- Latios - Adaptability, Tinted Lens
- Lucario - Tough Claws, Pixilate, Refrigerate, Scrappy, Mega Launcher, Sheer Force

- Manaphy - Motor Drive, Volt Absorb, Poison Heal, Prankster, Sheer Force, Unaware, Swift Swim
- Mew - Prankster, Poison Heal, No Guard, Magic Bounce, Sheer Force (Lots more, Mew can run almost anything given its expansive movepool)
- Snorlax - Poison Heal
- Suicune - Poison Heal, Unaware, Regenerator, Primordial Sea, Magnet Pull, Volt Absorb
- Thundurus - Refrigerate, Sheer Force, Magic Guard
- Tyranitar - Adaptability, Regenerator
- Victini - Drought, Desolate Land, Tough Claws, Tinted Lens, No Guard, Sheer Force, Mold Breaker

- Mega Metagross - Defiant / Flash Fire -> Tough Claws
- Zapdos - Delta Stream, Magic Guard, Poison Heal, Intimidate, Magic Bounce, Unaware, No Guard, Primordial Sea, Drizzle, Drought

  • Mid A Rank
- Alakazam - Sheer Force
- Chansey - Magic Bounce, Regenerator, Flash Fire
- Deoxys-D - Mold Breaker, Poison Heal, Prankster
- Genesect - Refrigerate, Tough Claws, Sheer Force, No Guard, Tinted Lens, Regenerator.
- Mandibuzz - Poison Heal, Delta Stream, Volt Absorb, Intimidate, Magic Bounce, Unaware
- Staraptor - Gale Wings, Tinted Lens, Guts, Poison Heal
- Mega Gyarados - Volt Absorb / Magic Bounce -> Mold Breaker.
- Volcorona - Magic Guard, Desolate Land, Sheer Force


  • Low A Rank
- Cresselia - Unaware, Poison Heal, Regenerator, Magic Bounce
- Ferrothorn - Flash Fire, Primordial Sea, Prankster, Tough Claws, Magic Bounce, Mold Breaker, Unaware
- Garchomp - Adaptability, Poison Heal, Magic Bounce
- Heracross - Tough Claws
- Jirachi - Tinted Lens, Regenerator, Sheer Force, Serene Grace
- Kyurem - Sheer Force, Adaptability, Refrigerate
- Landorus-I - Sheer Force, Refrigerate, Flash Fire
- Latias - Unaware, Tinted Lens, Poison Heal, Adaptability
- Meloetta - Regenerator, Poison Heal, Tinted Lens, Sheer Force
- Raikou - Primordial Sea, Regenerator, Magnet Pull, Refrigerate, Sheer Force, Tinted Lens, Poison Heal
- Vaporeon - Poison Heal
- Zygarde - Refrigerate, Tough Claws, Poison Heal
- Mega Diancie - Download / Magic Bounce -> Magic Bounce


B Rank:

  • High B Rank
- Azumarill - Poison Heal, Huge Power
- Chesnaught - Poison Heal, Unaware, Intimidate, Unburden, Flash Fire
- Diancie - Regenerator, Poison Heal
- Dragonite - Tough Claws, Pixilate, Refrigerate, Tinted Lens
- Gliscor - Flash Fire, Bulletproof, Gale Wings
- Goodra - Regenerator, Poison Heal
- Hippowdon - Intimidate, Unaware, Poison Heal, Magic Bounce.
- Hoopa-C - Sheer Force, Chlorophyll, Swift Swim, Unburden, Tinted Lens, Adaptability
- Landorus-T - Regenerator, Adaptability, Refrigerate, Flash Fire
- Pangoro - Tough Claws
- Shuckle - Mold Breaker, Prankster, Magic Bounce.
- Swampert - Poison Heal, Regenerator, Sap Sipper
- Tentacruel - Regenerator
- Umbreon - Poison Heal
- Mega Altaria - Magic Bounce / Multiscale / Intimidate -> Pixilate
- Mega Ampharos - Magnet Pull / Competitive -> Mold Breaker
- Mega Manectric - Magnet Pull / Intimidate -> Intimidate
- Mega Slowbro - Volt Absorb / Intimidate / Unaware / Magic Bounce -> Shell Armor
- Mega Swampert - Drizzle -> Swift Swim
- Mega Tyranitar - Intimidate / Magic Bounce / Prankster / Defiant -> Sand Stream

  • Mid B Rank
- Azelf - Mold Breaker, Tough Claws, Sheer Force.
- Blastoise - Poison Heal
- Breloom - Prankster, Adaptability, Technician
- Clefable - Poison Heal, Magic Bounce, Unaware
- Escavalier - Regenerator
- Greninja - Protean, Tinted Lens
- Haxorus - Tough Claws, Tinted Lens.
- Hydreigon - Mega Launcher, Sniper.
- Moltres - Magic Guard, Gale Wings, Primordial Sea, Desolate Land, Swift Swim
- Porygon2 - Prankster, Multiscale, Unaware, Pressure
- Rotom-Wash - Magnet Pull, Poison Heal, Regenerator, No Guard, Drizzle / Primordial Sea, Levitate
- Rhyperior - Poison Heal, Regenerator
- Scizor - Regenerator, Flash Fire, Multiscale -> Technician.
- Sylveon - Poison Heal, Unaware
- Tornadus-T - Gale Wings, Drizzle / Primordial Sea, No Guard, Tinted Lens
- Tyrantrum - Magic Guard, Adaptability, Magic Bounce
- Mega Blastoise - Magnet Pull / Lightning Rod / Drizzle -> Mega Launcher
- Mega Charizard X - Magic Guard / Download / Magic Bounce / Multiscale -> Tough Claws


  • Low B Rank
- Blaziken - Tough Claws, Magic Guard, Speed Boost
- Conkeldurr - Tough Claws, Poison Heal.
- Crobat - Magic Guard, Gale Wings
- Empoleon - Levitate, Swift Swim, Regenerator, Volt Absorb
- Gastrodon - Thick Fat, Sap Sipper, Poison Heal
- Jellicent - Prankster, Lightning Rod, Swift Swim
- Krookodile - Adaptability, Bulletproof
- Mega Lopunny - Download -> Scrappy
- Magnezone - Regenerator, Magnet Pull, Flash Fire, Levitate
- Regirock - Regenerator, Poison Heal
- Scizor - Flash Fire, Regenerator
- Sneasel - Refridgerate, Adaptability
- Togekiss - Gale Wings, Magic Guard, Poison Heal, Pixilate
- Tornadus - Gale Wings, No Guard, Drizzle / Primordial Sea, Tinted Lens
- Zoroark - Adaptability, Tough Claws, Sheer Force
- Mega Pinsir - Download -> Aerilate


C Rank:

  • High C Rank
- Arcanine - Tough Claws, Refrigerate
- Celebi - Unaware, Poison Heal.
- Excadrill - Flash Fire, Bulletproof, Refrigerate
- Gothitelle - Shadow Tag.
- Infernape - Adaptability, Drought, Sheer Force, Mold Breaker, Magnet Pull, Download, Technician
- Metagross - Flash Fire, Unburden, Regenerator
- Rampardos - Magic Guard, Sand Rush, Adaptability, Tinted Lens
- Roserade - Desolate Land, Solar Power, Chlorophyll
- Rotom-Heat - Poison Heal, Regenerator, Storm Drain, Levitate
- Shaymin - Flower Veil, Regenerator, Magic Guard, Sheer Force, Tinted Lens
- Shiftry - Adaptability, Gale Wings
- Starmie - Sheer Force, No Guard, Adaptability, Volt Absorb
- Talonflame - Magic Guard.
- Mega Alakazam
- Magic Bounce -> Trace
- Mega Heracross - Flash Fire / Magic Bounce -> Skill Link
- Mega Venusaur - Flash Fire / Intimidate / Prankster -> Thick Fat


  • Mid C Rank
- Blissey - Sheer Force, Harvest, Poison Heal
- Chandelure - Desolate Land, Magic Guard, Adaptability, Sheer Force
- Darmanitan - Unburden
- Delphox - Adaptability, Solar Power, Tinted Lens
- Diggersby - Huge Power
- Marowak - Technician.
- Omastar - Levitate, Regenerator, Swift Swim, Poison Heal
- Steelix - Regenerator, Flash Fire, Harvest
- Stunfisk - Primordial Sea, Bulletproof, Regenerator, Poison Heal
- Thundurus-T - Sheer Force
- Trevenant - Prankster, Poison Heal, Harvest
- Mega Aerodactyl - Defiant -> Tough Claws
- Mega Charizard Y - Magic Guard / Download / Competitive -> Drought
- Mega Gardevoir - Competitive / No Guard / Download -> Pixilate
- Mega Houndoom - Drought -> Solar Power.
- Mega Sharpedo - Speed Boost -> Strong Jaw
- Rotom-F - Adaptability

  • Low C Rank
- Aerodactyl - Intimidate, Mold Breaker
- Cloyster - Refrigerate, Technician, Skill Link
- Crawdaunt - Adaptability, Unburden
- Ditto - Imposter.
- Florges - Prankster, Regenerator, Adaptability
- Galvantula - Mold Breaker
- Heliolisk - Lightning Rod.
- Klefki - Pixilate, Prankster
- Lickilicky - Poison Heal
- Virizion - Magic Bounce
- Mega Garchomp - Sand Stream -> Sand Force.


D Rank:

- Avalugg - Poison Heal, Magic Guard, Refrigerate
- Drifblim - Prankster, Poison Heal
- Dusclops - Normalize, Prankster, Regenerator
- Gorebyss - Primordial Sea, Volt Absorb, Sheer Force.
- Mega Absol - Download -> Magic Bounce



Rules
  • Don't post one-liners.
  • Add arguments if you think something is good or bad. Posts saying "Pikachu should be A-rank it's so great!" won't be tolerated.
  • Usage statistics shouldn't be used to say that a Pokemon is good. It can be used to show the current state of the metagame and that a Pokemon fares well / badly against it, but just because a Pokemon is popular doesn't mean it's good.
  • Don't personally insult other users, or get offensive. If anyone is seen criticizing a user maliciously instead of criticizing the Pokemon, they WILL be infracted.
  • Stay on topic. Other Other Metagames aren't relevant here and shouldn't be compared to, neither is OU.
Have fun posting!
 
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Funbot28

Banned deucer.
Ok, guess I will start the discussion :/

A+ to S
Latios hits incredibly hard with Adaptability/Tinted Lens. With a Choice Specs or Life Orb, there are very few switchins to it. Besides hitting extremely hard, Latios can also provide support in Defog, Trick and Memento, and can face stall with Calm Mind. Gale Wings and -atespeed hurts it, but still a mon with astronomical amounts of power, comparable to things like Victini and Heatran imo.

A+ to S
Honestly, Mew can do it all. With an expansive movepool any mon would die for, coupled with the fact that it can choose "Almost Any Ability" makes it's options limitless. You never know which set it is running, making it hard to counterplay with it. It also has amazing base 100 stats, which makes it be offensive, while also having significant bulk. Mew is a jack of all trades, master of all, which definitely has the utility and offensive presence of the other S-Rank mons.

S to A+
Probably an unpopular opinion, but find that Doublade's usefulness kinda dropped as the meta developed. Flash Fire kinda gets hit hard by stuff like Earth Power Heatran, Gengar, Honchkrow and Mandibuzz. Levitate gets bopped by Fires, and doesn't have reliable recovery outside of Regenerator, which that set gets destroyed by both sets of aforementioned threats. It still walls stuff like Snorlax and Mega Metagross, but overall find that Doublade can be a dead weight at times, and is only really scary with SD.

Just skimmed through S right now before I go too in depth. Would like to get some discussion going, then comment on rest of the rankings.
 
I think Doublade should remain in S rank, as it can wall some threatening mons, such as Skarmory, some Victini, and Pokemon who rely on Fire-type coverage to get through Steel-types.
 
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Snaquaza

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I'll make some nominations on my own as well.

First off, I feel like Shaymin-Sky should be raised. I haven't used it a lot, but have faced it and it rips apart offensive and balanced teams quite easily. Although it hates the fact that strong priority like Gale Wings Brave Bird and RefrigSpeed are common, it can get in on many slower Pokemon and hit something extremely hard. Its Tinted Lens set makes Grass-STAB way better, allowing it to KO most resists. This way, few of the Pokemon that can revenge it, can actually switch in, so it can easily pressure most teams each time it comes in. Obviously it hates Chansey and other extremely bulky Pokemon like Assault Vest Goodra, but otherwise it can actually power through many bulkier Pokemon if it gets lucky with a SpD drop. Besides this there's also the Adaptability set, which can KO some of the Pokemon that can normally switch in, but I find it inferior. There's also a cool SubSeed set, which allows it to do better versus Chansey and such.

So while it dislikes the trends of powerful priority, it is still an amazing Pokemon in the current metagame. I'd like to nominate it for A-rank, but I'm fine with A- too.

Now I'll get to 'mons that I've used thoroughly.

Shaymin, yes the regular form, probably deserves D-rank. It's quite a niche Pokemon, but I've used it on a stall team with it and with Flower Veil or Magic Guard (I used Flower Veil as I hate paralysis, and you prevent annoying drops from Crunch and such and you avoid dumb Skill Swap things hurting you, but Magic Guard can help with weather and hazards). Although it dislikes common Fire- and Flying-types, it can easily pivot into Pokemon like Zapdos, Suicune and other Water, Electric, Grass and Ground-types, and various Stall Pokemon. Combining this with its decent support movepool in Aromatherapy, Leech Seed, a good STAB move in Seed Flare which Pokemon like Suicune hate and recovery in Synthesis, it's definitely reliable and good enough for D-rank. I may use Amoonguss and Tangrowth in similar roles soon.

Although I feel like Latias is in a good rank now (A-), I will add Unaware to its abilities if no one opposes it. I've used it and it honestly seems like one of the better sets in the current metagame for stall, semistall and balanced teams. That said, Adaptability and Tinted Lens sets seem to be outclassed by Latios who has more power, which is what matters most with these sets. Anyway, Latias' good bulk and typing allows it to wall a lot of setup sweepers. Additionally, it can turn into a fearsome setup sweeper itself with Calm Mind and reliable recovery in Recover or Roost. Once it sets up, its quite hard to stop, since opposing setup sweepers can't stop it.

Why isn't Moltres on this list anymore! I know I nommed it a while ago for the previous thread and thought it was added. It has good sets in Gale Wings for rain teams which basically destroys everything, and it can still use its Fire STAB if Fire weak Pokemon think they can just switch in. What's so good about it is that the metagame isn't well-prepared for Special Flying-moves right now. Although a lot of Gale Wings counters are running around, they're all focused around checking Brave Bird, so Specs Hurricane will easily wear them down. So, there it's a great sweeper. It can also run a Swift Swim set, although I think its inferior as you only really want to use Hurricane anyway, and this way you can revenge out of weather as well. However, I've also used it and seen it used on Stall teams, where it fulfills a very different role. With Magic Guard, it can become a decent Pokemon and support the team with Defog, Will-o-Wisp and unique resistances and decent defenses. In general, I feel this deserves B-rank.

Regular Scizor should be added as well. Flash Fire sets are annoying since it has decent defenses and decent defenses and Bulletproof is viable for similar reasons as Bulletproof Doublade, but it has recovery and U-turn. There's not a lot to say about it that can't be said about its mega-evolution, so I'll probably put it into B- rank, if no one opposes. It's still a bit weak without Technician and can be pressured quite easily.

Galvantula should be added somewhere on the list, probably C- rank. It's the only Sticky Web setter with some offensive presence, so it is easier to fit on an offensive team than Shuckle and is less easy to take advantage of. Mold Breaker is a good ability for it, so that it can revenge kill Motor Drive Manaphy and set Webs against Magic Bounce users. Due to its high speed, it can often lay the Webs and afterwards pivot out with Volt Switch and come back in later when you need it to pressure something or revenge kill. Don't always use it as a lead, as it's fairly predictable. It's better to see when you can get in and then lay webs when you have time for it. Also, Levitate is way less common due to the ability to get even better abilities, and Defiant and Competitive can be put on anything to hinder Defog, which helps webs. Tagging -Grim as I know he has used webs too.

This may sound ridiculous, but Gorebyss is viable. I've used it with a Primordial Sea set, and it worked. Although it can't pass Shell Smash boosts anymore, it is quite strong after a Shell Smash in the rain, KOing many common Pokemon. It can set up on Pokemon like Heatran, Choiced Victini, Entei and some more passive Pokemon. Although it's only viable late-game when the opposing team has been weakened, it can smash through many Pokemon then, as a +2 Surf will KO most neutral opponents. Ice Beam is good coverage for Pokemon like Latios and Shaymin-Sky, while in my opinion the best third move is Hidden Power Grass, to hit Water-types super effectively, but you'll have to remove Fire-type Desolate Land user beforehand. Although it may seem to be outclassed by Manaphy, Gorebyss is better versus more offensive teams once it sets up, since it can boost its speed as well, making it hard to revenge kill, especially since it resists RefrigSpeed. Setting up is a bit harder than with Manaphy, but it usually pays off more as well, and it's not too hard as you have decent defense.

+2 252+ SpA Gorebyss Surf vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Mew in Heavy Rain: 325-384 (80.4 - 95%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+3 252+ SpA Life Orb Manaphy Surf vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Mew: 321-380 (79.4 - 94%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gorebyss: 150-177 (59.7 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Refrigerate Entei Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gorebyss: 82-97 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So I feel it could deserve C+ rank, as it's a fairly good sweeper, though I'd be okay with anything in the C ranks.

Funbot28, I agree with Latios to S-Rank. It's one of the biggest threats in the metagame in my opinion as its one of the strongest nukes in the metagame and can still support the team by Defog and Memento. Although it has problems with Steel-types at times, it can often wear them down and Magnet Pull support isn't too hard either.

I don't agree with Mew going to S-rank. While it's a good Pokemon for sure, I don't feel like it's as good as you claim it to be. It can run many sets yes, but often you'd rather use something else. Additionally, most have enough things that stop it hard. The Prankster set, for example, is stopped badly by Magic Bounce. Mew also can't do everything at once. When you're using a supportive set you lack offensive presence and offensive sets are usually mostly for surprise factor or for the coverage, as there are better sweepers available, so in general the versality brings it to A+ rank for me, but S-rank looks like too much.

I'm neutral on Doublade going to A+. I also feel like it's not as amazing as it's made out to be at times, but it's still an amazing birdcheck and it has enough attack to threaten most things which come in and Shadow Sneak helps a lot versus things like Latios and Victini as well. However, other times it fails to do what it has to do because it's worn down or can't stop something and then your team will have to take a huge hit. I'll look at what others have to say about this. PleaseDontBanMe, it doesn't really wall Heatran well because they often carry Earth Power, so it can never wall Heatran completely.

I want to rehash -Grim's nominations in the old thread. Victini and Heatran could drop to A+-rank. Both are still good in the current metagame, but the rise of Primordial Sea and Flash Fire users dooms them. Especially Victini has a hard time getting around them, since it can't use its extremely strong STAB without losing momentum, which makes it easier to switch in on. Heatran suffers a bit less on its defensive sets as it can still do its job of setting hazards, but ChloroTran is far less effective right now (although it still destroys underprepared teams).
 
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Snaquaza Doublade can't be trapped by Magnet Pull variants because it's part Ghost-type. Also, it can function as a roadblock to Brave Bird spam, Fire-type sweepers/coverage users with Flash Fire, or Ground-type coverage with Levitate.
 
Snaq, I'd add des land to moltres' sets, it's a really useful offensive counter to rain with solar beam,hurricane and stronger stab.
 
Volcorona needs no, must go to mid-A

This mon is crazy, with magic guard setting up quiver dance is easier being unable to take indirect damage period and of course stealth
rock damage bringing so much pressure to stall.
Generally its unfortunate that its weakness is bug which carries it down alot which is true. Multiscale can also work because at full life,
it will live any brave bird which at best it pretty hard to do. Genesect one of the most unpredictable mons can be taken down with volcorona
unless
water techno blast in rain but 100% of the time volcorona can be your answer to Genesect since its quad resist both its stabs.
 

Snaquaza

KACAW
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I updated some things
  • stays A+
  • to A
  • to B+
  • to B
  • to C-
  • to D
  • to D

I want more opinions on these.
  • to S
  • to A+
  • to A+
  • to A+
  • to A

Latios: I feel like it could go to S. It's extremely strong and gets a destroys balance, being able to get a kill each time to get in. Same happens to stall, and although they can try to play around it, there aren't any good hard-counters. Versus offense it can get revenged relatively easily, but it still has a decent speed tier and a lot of power.

Heatran: The metagame is really prepared for it. Its offensive sets are hindered by the commonness of Primordial Sea and Flash Fire, while its defensive sets are hindered by lack of recovery and the fact that people don't rely on Ground- or Water-coverage as much anymore to hit it.

Victini: Same problem as Heatran, its offensive sets lose a lot of momentum versus Fire immunities, even bigger problem for it than for Heatran.

Doublade: Neutral on this. Sometimes it's mediocre, but it checks or counters a lot of strong Pokemon and is able to sweep as well if they give it a free turn to set up.

Volcarona: I put it in B+ as I feel that's fair. It's a really strong Quiver Dancer, but the metagame prevents it from shining more in my opinion. As you've already said, it hates the common Gale Wings, and ESpeed users can often prey on its low Defense as well once its weakened. Additionally, Pokemon like Victini, Heatran, Entei, Snorlax and Fire-immune mons can often survive a hit.

could go up. It's very threatening against offense, with STAB priority Fake Out, Quick Attack and a really high speed. Additionally, a high powered Ice STAB (great offensive typing) in combination with Knock Off can make it a terror for balanced teams as well. Maybe B or B+?

Finally, I haven't seen these Pokemon but they should probably be removed unless someone objects.

  • Avalugg
  • Drifblim
 
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MZ

And now for something completely different
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Ugh, I really wanna play more AAA but building and getting games takes so long. That being said, I'd rather not see Victini drop. It's more prepared for, but it puts a ton of pressure on opposing teams no matter what. Outside of a flash fire/primordial sea user, it can probably OHKO every other mon and outspeed 2-3, meaning that its mere presence becomes a "are they going to u-turn"? Not to mention people should test mixtini and turboblaze can flatten builds over reliant on flash fire ferro or somth. Hope this wasn't too out of date.
 

Grim

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The problem with Victini is that almost every decent team has a Flash Fire / Pimordial Sea user these days. Even hyper offense often uses Flash Fire Doublade as a spinblocker and generally a great stop to common priority moves from Entei, Gale Wings, Lucario, etc. U-turn and specially based sets are all pretty cool but Victini actually can't afford to U-turn too much because all kinds of entry hazards are very common and specially based sets are walled by a lot more stuff once the surprise has worn off. That said, I do agree that Victini puts a lot of pressure on the opponent, both while teambuilding and while battling, and it's still something you really need to prepare for. It's just that preparing for it isn't as hard these days and you'll often cover it simply by covering another Fire-type. Hell, just by using an entry hazard setter you'll often check it already (Ferrothorn, Garchomp, Rhyperior, Tyranitar, Excadrill, Skarmory, etc), especially since most teams have one or two strong priority users.

I think Doublade is fine in S. There's no denying that offensively it can be somewhat lacking, being food for plenty of physical walls such as Suicune and Hippowdon (if no Levitate), but defensively it is still the great offensive or defensive blanket check to so much important things it's not even funny. The metagame is just really good for Doublade and I don't see that changing soon.

Volcarona really isn't that good. As an answer to Genesect it's a very subpar choice as it is worn down very fast by U-turn and takes a ton from Extremespeed. As a sweeper it has very few setup opportunities, is easily revenge killed by the enormous amount of strong priority (including Genesect's Extremespeed and the ominipresent Gale Wings), and struggles a ton against Flash Fire / Pimordial Sea users which are still really common, especially the two S-ranked Pokemon, Skarmory and Doublade aka still best Pokemon in the tier. Volcarona is barely B+ (probably not even worth that) and definitely not A.

I already shared my thoughts on Latios and Heatran, I think Latios definitely has a shot at S and that Heatran is good but not S anymore. Sneasel is pretty cool and I'll try to use it more to see where it should go.
 
Snaq, I'd add des land to moltres' sets, it's a really useful offensive counter to rain with solar beam,hurricane and stronger stab.
Hurricane becomes 50% accurate in sun, I'd advice against using it.

Anyways, I've already commented on the current slate, except Volcarona which I'm neutral on.
 
Heatran-
This monster is one of the reasons why most teams have a fire check/counter, its typing is so great for AAA it already
pushes pass most birds in the process leaving them in the rust, both desolate land and chrolran sets are along the
most popular sets along with some gimmicks like water absorb,levitate and magnet pull.
ALSO these calcs sums it all up
252 SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 282-333 (43.9 - 51.8%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 309-364 (48.1 - 56.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
lol must stay in s-rank

Latios-
Honestly, its wallbreaker abilities are superb but i cant say its S-rank material due to the fact that its typing makes it weak to every form of extremespeed
there is all i really see it doing is dropping one and dying, yes they arent much pokemon who can live a draco/psyshock but right now it only has offensive pressure towards stall but no offensive pressure towards standard offensive teams. Its not bad but comparing the other s-rank to latios, they have counters and many ways of pushing pass there counters very easily. NOT saying its bad as mon but saying its bad as a s-rank mon, its just underwhelming. though my statements are from my point of view can stay a+ rank

Doublade-
Not much to say about this but every roll doublade plays, he does it right and puts in alot of work. As one of my favourite mons in AAA, stay in s-rank

victini-
Even with all the flash fire/P.ocean pokemon, victini can still be a threatening mon against any type of play style since you are forced 90% to run a counter/check
though it needs choice scarf to keep up with offensive teams while life orb is the worst nightmare for stall. still a great mon and always will be. stay in s rank
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
^i pretty much agree with every opinion jeran said. but to further question...what makes you feel like doublade is "mediocre"? ive been using the regenerator set, and its NEVER failed to put in work for my teams. its capable of setting up multiple times a game, checks 2 of the BIGGEST threats in the tier, and if it decides to run flash fire, it also is capable of handling the OTHER two best things in the tier. doublade is INSANELY versitile for a bulky poke. and its definatly deserving of the S rank we gave it.

something i want to bring up, is imo, shaymin Sky is probably even S worthy. skymin is incredibly powerful, with 4 super strong abilities(tinted, gale wings, adapt, and serene grace kek) that help it out immensely. its speed tier is also INSANE. its basically "special terrakion" of the meta but even scarier. seed flare +tinted/adaptability lets it demolish both offensive and defensive teams alike. literally no switchins, and every time i use skymin, it seems that people just arent prepared for the pressure the little flying puppy brings. if its dual coverage wasnt scary enough, it also gets earth power, to round its coverage almost perfectly. if not S ranked, A+ rank is definitely where it belongs. it might fear gale wings/ate. but once its on the field getting off a hit, seeing the damage it deals is just too satisfying
 

Grim

The Ghost
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Heatran's typing is good but doesn't really help it take on common threats. It doesn't exactly leave birds in the dust due to Fighting-type coverage and stuff like Latios just blows past it with Adaptability or Tinted Lens. Chlorotran is really not even that relevant anymore because Primordial Sea is a thing and weather has lost a ton of viability. Of course it's a good Pokemon but a list of its good qualities does not show that a Pokemon deserves S-rank. What matters is how it functions in the current meta and I think Heatran's performance in the metagame has definitely decreased.

How can you say that Latios, with its 110 Speed and amazing power, has no offensive pressure against offense lol. It's weak against common priority yes, but no matter what people like to say offense is not six priority users. Anyway, I realize it's true that Latios needs some team support to function at its best so I'm not going to push the matter, but I just wanted to clear up that Latios has offensive pressure against everything.

Shaymin-Sky is good and one of my favorite Pokemon to use in AAA, but it is definitely not S-rank. It struggles with common threats, one being a very solid S-ranked Pokemon called Skarmory, and others such as Zapdos, Chansey, and literally all forms of priority in the tier. While I think Shaymin-Sky is pretty good, it's even worse, and I mean much worse, than Latios at handing priority, and if Latios should be held back from S-rank because priority is common I think Shaymin-Sky definitely shouldn't be S. I can see A+, however, because it does a good job at firing off insanely powerful hits and running away when something faster or a priority user gets in. It's kind of like Latios in that regard, the difference being that Latios switches into some things at least. :L

Also while I don't think Doublade is mediocre at all, I can see where Snaq is coming from because for all the threats it walls, Doublade is also walled by almost every physical wall. Basically, it's power is just very underwhelming and makes it a free switch-in for a lot of stuff. That said, definitely still S-rank material.
 
I think Normalize Mismagius could be added to somewhere in the B- to C range. At first glance, it probably seems outclassed by normalize Gengar, except for a few things:
1. It's slightly better special-defensively.
2. Though slower, it's basically in the same speed tier (max 339 speed compared to Gengar's 350), stopping all the 328 speed wall breakers (though losing 1v1 to Gengar, pending sashes).
3. It can set up with a well-timed mean look and nasty plot, something Gengar can't do.

It requires basically the same support as normalize Gengar does.
It struggles against users of priority, bulletproof, and unaware, and bulky dark types often still survive a 4x SpA Shadow ball. I usually elect for shadowball and just wait for all the normal types to be gone before I attempt a move, but it also has access to dazzling gleam, dark pulse, psychic, energy ball, psychic, thunderbolt/thunder, and hyper voice. Normalized burn and toxic still hit for some reason, but not thunder wave.

I normally opt for the sash so I can take out at least one would-be counter (priority and speed seem more common than unaware or bulletproof) after KOing the trapped mon, which often allows the sweep. Obviously, this needs bounce/defog/spin support. It forms a nice annoying duo with the common SR/Wish support Magic Bounce Chansey, as they share good type synergy, Mismagius forces a lot of switches, and wish makes it an insufferable early game annoyance as well.

Mismagius @ Focus Sash
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mean Look
- Skill Swap
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball

It doesn't have the same versatility as Gengar (normalize might be the only thing Mismagius can do well), but it aggravates enough pokemon on this list to be on it somewhere.


I don't know if it's worth putting up, but prankster Parasect is basically a slightly slightly more specially defensive prankster Breloom, but with knockoff utility (but also minus 35 attack and superpower). Its niche is a tiny one.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Shaymin-Sky is good and one of my favorite Pokemon to use in AAA, but it is definitely not S-rank. It struggles with common threats, one being a very solid S-ranked Pokemon called Skarmory, and others such as Zapdos, Chansey, and literally all forms of priority in the tier. While I think Shaymin-Sky is pretty good, it's even worse, and I mean much worse, than Latios at handing priority, and if Latios should be held back from S-rank because priority is common I think Shaymin-Sky definitely shouldn't be S. I can see A+, however, because it does a good job at firing off insanely powerful hits and running away when something faster or a priority user gets in. It's kind of like Latios in that regard, the difference being that Latios switches into some things at least. :L
shaymin actually handles all these sets barring skarm, but scarm cant really switch in on specs air slash (252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Shaymin-S Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 232-274 (69.4 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). none of these pokemon are able to switch into shay, which is saying a LOT.

for example, chansey, perhaps the best switchin to this you listed, switching into seed flare is perhaps a very risky thing, especailly considering its on chanseys disadvantage in doing so
252 SpA Choice Specs Shaymin-S Seed Flare vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 142-168 (22.1 - 26.1%) -- 6.5% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Shaymin-S Seed Flare vs. -2 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 283-334 (44 - 52%) -- 14.5% chance to 2HKO
and so on, you would be suprised on how often seed flare gets its drops. id say chansey is a shakey switchin, BUT a switchin nonetheless...zapdos on the other hand...
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Shaymin-S Seed Flare vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Zapdos: 214-252 (55.8 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
is not. and priority users cannot HOPE to switch into a tinted lens seed flare. shaymin isnt a sweeper, it doesnt HAVE to face them might i add. if it can threaten like, 4 members of the opponents team, thats more then enough work that shay has to put effort in. imo, its what shaymin sky CAN do that warrents its raise, not what it CANT do that keeps it where it is. i just feel like "being weak to priority and being walled by chansey" isnt a valid reason to keep it from S rank, when literally NOTHING switches into it, and literally EVERY non priority offensive pokemon falls to its demise against it due to its ridiculous speed tier.

oh, and one last thing, what separates latios from shaymin, is shaymins "power" move isnt "condecending" like draco meteor is, shaymin scares off EVERYTHING with seed flare, and nomatter how many times it uses it, it can consistantly spam it safely without fear of "oh, suddenly it gains a switchin" it might not be a big thing on paper, but giving scarm/priority users a free switch is a HUGE reason latios struggles to wallbreak like shay does. shay can decimate an entire team if they lack priority in one fell swoop. latios...needs to switch in and out with using draco meteor. sure, it has psyshock, but...eh...psyshock doesnt net certain kills draco does. shaymin also hits a bigger speed tier then latios, which means it practically WONT be outsped any time soon by the likes of thundurus, and whatnot. the difference between the two isnt only that latios can switch into attacks, its also that shaymin is also a consistant threat when its sent in.
 

Grim

The Ghost
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Having no safe switch-ins is nothing unique to Shaymin-Sky or something that would make it S-rank. Just scanning a bit through the rankings I see Heatran, Victini, Aegislash, Entei, Latios, Entei, Honchkrow, Genesect, Lucario, Latios, and much more Pokemon that have no true counters in the tier. That's just what you get when you can choose from almost any ability you'd want. I get your point about it having few switch-ins and a pretty spam-able move that destroys unprepared teams but you can't just ignore its flaws and say it should rise based on its pro's. In reality, a good AAA team has plenty counterplay to Shaymin-S (or any fast wallbreaker really) in numerous priority users, Stealth Rock to an extent, and lots of Pokemon that can live a hit and KO in return. As for Latios not being a consistant threat when its sent in, that completely depends on the game, as Adaptability Psyshock honestly does way more than you give it credit for and just like Shaymin-Sky it would usually switch out as the opponent switches in a check anyway, so the Draco Meteor Special Attack drop doesn't actually make much of a difference in practice.

What I'm trying to say is that while Shaymin-Sky is good, I don't think it stands out enough compared to other wallbreakers and / or cleaners to rise to S-rank.
 

Snaquaza

KACAW
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Honestly, I love Shaymin-Sky in the current metagame and it can destroy many builds, but its also hard to get into battle, and can easily be forced out by pretty much every kind of priority in the tier. The thing is that its Tinted Lens set doesn't have any good switch-ins, besides certain Sap Sipper Pokemon, but those are extremely uncommon in the current metagame. This makes it extremely threatening to balanced teams, which will probably let it in somehow, after which it can destroy something. Things like Suicune (Without Ice Beam) and other defensive Water-types are extremely easy to switch in on for Shaymin-Sky, after which it can cause havoc. However, if something dies it can be easily revenged, but Pokemon like Doublade and Skarmory can beat most priority-users. The same happens to semi-stall, but for them its a larger problem seeing how it can get in more easily, so there it's a huge problem, as is it versus Stall, as only Goodra and Chansey can switch in well, but they're liable to SpDef drops, and to being worn down.

Against offense, it is admittedly worse. It can't get in versus most Pokemon as it is too frail to survive their powerful attacks. Although it can get in after a kill or a slow VoltTurn, that's not too reliable, and although it can kill something decently easily when it gets in, it has to predict right to not let things like Skarmory switch in easily and revenge it and after a kill its easy to revenge. Healing Wish is really cool though.

So in general, I think it's a really good and threatening Pokemon, but the fact that (at least from what I've seen) the metagame is quite offensive and with a lot of priority, I wouldn't put it in S-rank. A+rank would be good though. I'll put it there, but feel free to argue for it to go back or to go to S. This is my preferred rank though. By the way, stuff like Entei, Aegislash, Victini, Heatran and some other things on there do have very strong counters. Sure if you randomly run Mold Breaker they might not (well Entei/Aegi still), but then they have other counters.

Now for some updates

Doublade will stay in S-rank. I mentioned that it can be worthless in matchups, but I agree that it does extremely important things (Although I feel you need Flash Fire or Levitate to shine, so Regenerator isn't that great in my opinion.) However, it fills an extremely important role in stopping most priority users, and it can be very threatening after a Swords Dance. So the fact that it keeps the metagame in check and is threatening at the same time makes it deserve S.

Heatran, will go to A+ rank for now. It is fairly easy to wear down and although it influences the metagame a lot, it has adapted to Heatran extremely much, causing Heatran to be less effective in the current metagame. Flash Fire and Primordial Sea are common, and many Pokemon carry Fighting-type moves. Its lack of recovery makes it sort of easy to wear down, and although it can negate its Ground- or Water-weakness, it always has a glaring weakness to the other, and Primordial Sea users are usually pretty easy switch-ins to Desolate Land sets. Magnet Pull is cool for trapping Skarmory, but most other Steels have a way past it, so it can at least not switch in well.

Heatran is still a good Pokemon, but I don't feel any of its set deserve S-rank right now. Also the only counterargument was that Heatran is the reason for all the Fire-immunities (hint: its not completely, for offense I'd blame Entei and Victini does a deal too), but that is a reason for it to move down already: the metagame is more prepared for it.

Latios will stay in A+ for now. I've thought about it, and it's a great Pokemon that can break defensive teams really easily and offer Defog support, has Roost and Memento, and can even lure Steel-types with Tinted Lens. However, most of the arguments against Shaymin-Sky also count for Latios, and both have a few pros and cons. Latios has more support options, (although no Healing Wish) and probably has the better typing, but Shaymin-Sky is faster and doesnt' have to rely on Draco Meteor to get kills. So, although Latios is really effective in the current metagame and beats a lot of Pokemon down, it needs team support to take priority and faster Pokemon, and to take hits when it is at -2.

Victini, same thing as Heatran really, although it relies a lot on V-Create so its annoying to not be able to spam it, while Heatran has support options. However, it has Bolt Strike to get past Water-types, so that equals it a bit. However, it is still less effective with more preparation for Fire-types, so it's going to A+.

Sneasel is going to B+ as I've seen it wreck a lot of times and Ice is a really good type in the current metagame. It is really quick and has SE priority against things like Shaymin-Sky. Feel free to argue against it but no one has so eh...

Now what to discuss, besides the changes made.
Now for another nomination to close this update. I really like Moltres in the current metagame, I don't want it to change rank per se as it needs hazard support and as I said, Fire-types are kind of prepared for, but U-turn is really cool and it has a nice typing. It can function in both Sun and Rain and is quite threatening in general.

Edit: Nominating Lucario to go down to A. This update made A+ quite crowded, so I was looking at it and felt that this thing has really not been as good lately. Lucario is the weakest of the AteSpeeders, causing it to fail to get as much offensive pressure as it'd like. It's also hard to set up safely, with its low bulk and it can't get past Doublade without Scrappy or Special sets, and Skarmory is annoying as well, which are the most important Pokemon in the metagame. It can still run effective ESpeed revenge killer sets, lure sets and set up sets, it just feels like me as if they're not as useful anymore and that Lucario has trouble executing them.
 
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I feel like I should nominate a couple Pokemon I've been using.

(Refrigerate) Unranked to B-
Pikachu is actually surprisingly good in AAA. It's one of many -atespeeders in the tier, but one of only two that can maintain momentum through Volt Switch and U-turn (With Genesect being the other one). It also has the advantage of being able to have an incredibly high attack stat (418 with a neutral nature and a Light Ball) without having to be choice locked or take Life Orb damage, unlike most other -atespeed Pokemon. But it has a lot of disadvantages too, most notably how incredibly frail it is and its mediocre Speed.

(Normalize, No Guard) Unranked to C or C-
I've been using this for a while, and since it's already being discussed, I'm going to voice my opinion. While normalize is mostly outclassed by Gengar, a No Guard set with Inferno, Hex, and Thunder is pretty good. Its stats prevent it from going much higher though.
 
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Snaquaza

KACAW
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Small update, since not many post I won't make a long post to discuss them either.

Pikachu is going to C. I've seen it been used quite decently, however, it's too frail to do too much and its power isn't enough often, especially when facing faster Pokemon, and you're forced to ESpeed.

Mismagius will be D. I think that it is viable, although I'll test it and see if it has enough power, I'll put it in D right now. It's too outclassed for C sorry.

Admiral Kirk

I'm also putting Lucario in A, as explained in my previous post.
 
Why is deoxys D still A rank? The rare times I see it it just ends up being usually pretty mediocre, it's bulk is just not that good in AAA.

Why is Sylveon in the VA but not florges?

I see where Lcass is coming from, I've used skymin extensively in AAA, mostly adapt, illusion, gale wing and refrigerate and it's really, really good in the meta and compared to other mons like victini or gengar, severally under prepared for. It's stab coverage is amazing and ep / hp fire is all the coverage it really needs. I'd say it one of the best pokemon in AAA currently and is so easy to fit on a team. Adapt set 2hkoes chansey every time you get the drop and the illusion set still packs enough power to ohko or severally dent mons like suicune / doublade / chansey / chesnaught / hippo... who are often staples on balanced teams and healing wish can make him useful even if you're battling 6 goodras. I don't really know if it's S rank worthy or not, I'll play more with it and compare it to the other S ranks, but really priority doesn't stop him from being absolutely amazing.

One thing that I'd like to nominate for S or at least discuss is snorlax. This thing has always been and extremely threatening mon for any kind of team in AAA. It's a check / counter to pretty much every special attacker, fits easily on every team and is always a really strong wincon. Any team that doesn't have a hard counter to lax like doublade is susceptible to be swept by it. It doesn't need boosts to be scary, but when it does you better have a good answer, it's also one of the few set-up sweepers that can easily take on unaware cune and pressure unaware cress through it's 8 moonlight pp. Skarmory can only roar him out most of the time and snorlax can still beat it if it's running focus punch or fire punch. It's just a really stupidly good mon.
 

Snaquaza

KACAW
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I agree with motherlove that Florges should be in the viability rankings, mostly for its Prankster Copycat set, which can be really annoying when you can't KO it quickly. However, other sets are (in my opinion) outclassed by Sylveon, due to Sylveon's higher general bulk.

Deoxys-D will be moved to B+-rank for now. Its placement can change more, but this is a good start.

Snorlax is a strange Pokemon for me. Either it's extremely hard to beat, due to its excellent power in combination with bulk, making it fairly hard to simply kill. On the other hand, both Skarmory and Doublade do a fair job in handling it, and especially Levitate Doublade can't be damaged by the common Earthquake Snorlax. So, it needs something to kill Doublade or it can't do anything, especially as Doublade hits through its defense boosts. Additionally, it can't switch in too often, as it'll slowly be worn down, even through Poison Heal, if you try to pivot too much. I'd not oppose its raise to S, but personally I'm leaning on keeping it A, since it still needs quite some support to function optimally.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
if skarm and doub werent S ranked, id support snorlax rising to s rank, but both s ranked monsters HARDCOUNTER lax, and can use it as setup fodder too if they wanted. and another problem for lax, is that both S ranked monsters are not only super easy to beat lax with, but are also EXTREMELY splashable on teams. lax is good, but doublade, skarm, and even aegis to an extent are all just too splashable on teams for lax to be S ranked. A is def where it belongs.
 
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