Balanced 4th gen OU team

[B-Zard]

Venusaur is the better option in this case. It is bulkier on the physical side and since celebi is a physical wall, venusaur would replace it better. It's not a bad idea to use UU in OU. UU isn't inferior. So venusaur instead with more physical bulk. Like I said (and many others said), don't stack hazards if you don't have a spin blocker, so no point if roserade is stacking hazards, tenta does better at it. Idk why you removed swampy in the first place, that's why I suggested empoleon. Empoleon has more resistance if i'm not wrong. It can take random outrages and draco meteors.

Okay i've been thinking about something else. I thought maybe Metagross is a good lead since it has Stealth Rock, powerful attacks and I guess does okay against other leads, so I would use it over Scizor:

Metagross @ Lum Berry/ Occa Berry/ Shuca Berry
Ability: Clear Body
Adamant Nature, 248 hp, 252 att, 8 speed
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Mash/ Earthquake
- Bullet Punch
- Explosion

Infernape is just going to be the set I had before:

Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
Naive Nature, 252 att, 64 spatt, 192 speed
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Mach Punch
- Overheat

Okay now I have three options:
1: keep Tentacruel and Celebi and make Celebi more offensive, since Tenta has Toxic Spikes and Zapdos has Twave, meaning Twave on Celebi would be pointless.

2: keep Tentacruel and Celebi and change Zapdos moveset, meaning Substitute > Twave (which I had before) since Celebi has Twave and Tentacruel has Toxic Spikes, so Zapdos can stall out Toxic Spikes with Sub + Roost.

3: replace Venusaur > Celebi since it is part poison, meaning it can absorb Toxic Spikes and has better typing and moveset than Celebi has. Since Metagross probably is going to be my lead I don't need a water Stealth Rocker so maybe Suicune can replace Tentacruel to keep the balance between offensive and defensive.

Hide

Venusaur @ Black Sludge
Ability: Overgrow
Bold Nature, 252 hp, 164 def, 92 speed
- Grass Knot/ Leaf Storm
- Hp Fire
- Sleep Powder
- Leech Seed

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Timid Nature, 4 hp, 252 spatt, 252 speed
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hp Electric

I know some options might seem weird but I just want to know what you think about it.

 

[sandshrewz]

Great choice with metagross :) but I would replace explosion with EQ. You need a steel type to deter dragons spamming outrage or dracometeors.

For the options, personally i'll choose 3. I won't keep tentacruel for anything if it isn't backed up by a ghost.

For venusaur, I replaced HP fire with sludge bomb for STAB. The dual STABs are really good actually but HP fire won't KO anything. Offensive suicune is good as well, not any worser than crocune.

Your team doesn't have any luc counter (me too) but luc cannot set up on anything much. Against Crocune, get saur to leech seed and your suicune can set up as well.

Not much problems with the team now :)

 

[B-Zard]

Yeah I also thought 3 was the best choice. Venusaur seemed like a good option over Celebi and replacing Tentacruel to absorb Toxic Spikes. I will go for Sludge Bomb > Hp Fire but do you think I should go for Grass Knot > Leaf Storm since Venusaur is bulky and if it wants to stay in longer it doesn't like the spatt drop.

About Metagross do you think Stealth Rock/ Earthquake/ Bullet Punch/ Explosion is a good set?

Also I really like the team now since it is balanced between the offensive and defensive playstyle and has a strong FWG core. I also like the fact that I have different members if you compare it to my first team and also I try out an UU poke: Venusaur. Normally I always used OU pokes but sometimes UU pokes fits better into the team.

Thanks for helping again. I will edit the first post.

If there are any more suggestions please say so.

 

[sandshrewz]

Yea! Glad you liked it. For grassknot, I personally use leafstorm. It's just my own preference. Leafstorm has a BP of 140 and grassknot has a max output of 120. I use leafstorm since venusaur hardly stays in too long and mostly just sleep powder and leechseeed and hit it with a strong STAB before switching out to an appropriate counter. This venusaur set is greatly annoying :) everytime venusaur is out, it can almost gurantee something is going to sleep, and the next one will get seeded and smacked with a powerful move. Despite not being very offensively minded, it racks quite a lot of damage with just leech seed and a STAB move, unless sleep powder misses. Venusaur has the bulk to keep annoying your opponent :)

For metagross, use meteor mash over explosion. You don't want to explode your only steel type. Lum berry is better to handle status leads like smeargle and roserade. There's a better EV set which survives azelf flamethrowers and has the speed increased. Check reyscarface's RMT, opening multiple windows on my phone isn't always good :P anyone with other suggestions to say so too :)

look forward to your next rmt if you are going to make another one. Cya! :)

addional comments:
sorry if your team objective has changed :P it was semi stall like you said but now, it's to allow suicune to do a late sweep. Suicune is a pretty slow sweeper. Try this strategy:
use sleep powder and twave to cripple potential suicune counters. This makes it easier to sweep :)

edit again: suicune main counters are trick users, bulky water (lanturn and quagsire) and special walls like blissey and snorlax. Trick is directed to flygon. Surprisingly, UU and NU threats are going to wall suicune. Lanturn with sub charge and quagsire with encore + toxic. Those are handled by venusaur. Special walls are KOed by infernape. That is one very efficient FWG core :) and suicune was your idea! Great job! :)

 

[B-Zard]

I changed Explosion to Earthquake since indeed it is not good to blow up your only steel poke. What do you think about Metagross item, since I am not sure about it.

For Venusaur I will both test Grass Knot and Leaf Storm and see which is best. Sludge Bomb and Grass Knot/ Leaf Storm don't have a lot to hit super effective whereas Hp fire can help. Do you really think Sludge Bomb is better in this case?

About Suicune Surf or Hydro Pump? I don't mind if my team object has changed, I am glad I now have a team that I like with a good late game sweeper. I now it is kinda slow but it is bulky enough to survive multiple hits.

 

[sandshrewz]

Haha. I guess you havn't read my additional comments. Oh yea for suicune, use surf. The additional power loss isn't a great deal. Hydro pump doesn't gain any extra OHKOs. Surf will do :)

 

[B-Zard]

Okay thanks for helping again. I now have Surf on Suicune and Sludge Bomb > Hp Fire on Venusaur. I will try out your strategy to let Suicune sweep easier.

Okay now there two things left to do before my team is finished:
The first thing is Grass Knot or Leaf Storm on Venusaur.

Secondly Zapdos moveset since I don't have Tentacruel anymore with Toxic Spikes, a Sub + Roost + Toxic Zapdos set might also be good (just as I had in first place). I am thinking of three options.
1. The set I now have:

Hide

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Calm Nature, 248 hp, 220 spdef, 40 speed
- Thunder Wave
- Roost
- Thunderbolt
- Hp Ice

2. Sub + Roost defensive spread:

Hide

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Calm Nature, 248 hp, 220 spdef, 40 speed
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Roost
- Thunderbolt

3. Sub + Roost with max. speed:

Hide

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Timid Nature, 192 hp, 64 spdef, 252 speed
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Roost
- Thunderbolt

 

[Tomahawk]

For the minor changes in your last post; I like Energy Ball on Venusaur personally as it helps vs Substitute Rotom-A and some other minor things like Vaporeon, but if you want Grass Knot or Leaf Storm I usually go for Grass Knot, as the Special Attack-lowering effect can sometimes get you forced out by the Pokemon you're supposed to counter. I also recommend the fast SubRoost Zapdos, because you will otherwise have some trouble with Swords Dance Lucario.

Onto the actual rate, Dragon Dance Kingdra can set up on Suicune pretty easily as he does minor damage even with boosted Ice Beams, Zapdos also gets set up on as all DD Kingdra's have ChestoRest or Substitute, and Metagross also is setup fodder without Explosion. He can even set up on Infernape when your team is weakened enough so that one DD will do the job. You then have no real counter besides Flygon with Outrage but Kingdra can set up 2 Dragon Dances or Outrage on the switchin and then you will get swept.
Agility Metagross can also cause trouble. It can't set up on a lot, but with Meteor Mash / Earthquake / Zen Headbutt he can outspeed and OHKO / 2HKO your whole team.
Not really a lot of threats though, solid team man.

As for fixes, consider Skarmory > Metagross. It will make your team much more defensive, but he can also set up Spikes and phaze out Kingdra and Metagross while taking almost nothing from their assaults. With a moveset of Stealth Rock / Spikes / Whirlwind / Roost @ Shed Shell and a EV spread of 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe Impish you can also set up two layers against a lot of leads, even special attackers without a super effective attack.

Good luck!

 

[B-Zard]

Thanks for the rate Tomahawk! I put Grass Knot on Venusaur, since indeed Venusaur is probably going to stay in a few turns, meaning the spatt drop isn't welcome. I took the SubRoost Zapdos set with max speed Timid nature to check SD Lucario. About the threats idk what to do about it, I could go for a Skar lead, but to be honest I really like the Meta lead I have now so I just have to hope I don't face these things. I might want to try it out though. Good thing that you saw possible threats to my team, makes me more aware when facing them!

 

[sandshrewz]

Hey Tomahawk9! Like you rate but I have a few things to point out though. How does energy ball help against sub rotom? Sludge bomb has a higher BP to break its sub as well :) vaporeon can't touch venusaur without ice beam or roar and venusaur can drain hp with leech seed. Lucario can't set up on majority of his team, most likely against suicune only. Leech seed and switching around will kill luc in a few turns if it tries to set up against venusaur but I agree with a fast sub roost zapdos to be on the safe side :)

Metagross is not set up fodder for sub DD kingdra I think, as it can spam breaking sub with EQ. Explosion is too risky since it may explode on a sub. Chestorest can set up on metagross though since metagross fails to KO before it gets to +2 which sweeps the whole team. Most likely kingdra will set up on infernape and suicune which can't do anything to it in return. Venusaur may be able to force an early outrage if it manages to break sub, sleep it or leech seed it without being KOed in the progress. Definitely kingdra is a huge threeat :/ agility metagross is super rare, and most likely to set up on suicune or venusaur. However, if it has a adamant nature, flygon can outspeed and EQ it. If it has jolly, the power loss from jolly. Will allow his own metagross to survive an EQ if at high enough health. Jolly EQ does 66.1% - 78.1% to his own metagross. As long as it switches in to something else.

but why the skarm lead? There is not spinblocker >.< so the hazards stacked are prone to getting spinned. You seem to like shed shell skarm :)

yea, not much problems overall. Every team is bound to have 1 or 2 threats it can't cover. But since those threats as said by Tomahawk9 are rare, it's a pretty solid team :)

 

[B-Zard]

Thanks everyone who rated my team. I think it is finished so far. Thanks Sandshrewz and Tomahawk for reminding me of possible threats so when I face them I don't let them set up to much.

About the Agility Metagross, most ones have EVs so they outspeed Jolly Choice Scarfed Flygons. So EQing might be a problem since MM does a lot (don't know if it kills).

 

[kosher ryan]

interesting to pick a cune as a late game sweeper. my thing is that suicune has to get in a calm mind or 2 before he can hit anything for signifficant damage. it gives an opponent like shaymin or vaporeon (who COMPLETELY walls cune) time to get in a leech seed or toxic, then protect stall. heres my idea: give your suicune rest with a chesto berry. ive used a similar set to simply devistating affect with my 4th gen NU late game sweeper, my whiscash, but with DD instead. basically the idea is that you get in as many DD's as u can(in this case CM) before you die, rest, and then go to work. i cannot tell you how many times this strategy has worked for me.
also consider the possibility of a specs or scarfed cune. could catch an opponent off gaurd.
i also prefer D-nite over flygon, but just personall opinion

 

[sandshrewz]

Lols. You got a point but I believe B-Zard knows what he is doing. Rule of thumb: never attempt a sweep while your opponenet counters are still alive. That's where venusaur comes in as the supporter. It will LoL at vaporeon without icebeam (if it has icebeam it cant counter suicune). Venusaur can proceed to leech seed and spam sludgebomb till it gets poisoned or till vappy faints. Venusaur will block shaymin's leech seed as well. LO Shaymin HP fire does only 45.6% - 53.8% to Venusaur while sludge bomb does 56.9% - 67.4% :) so venusaur COMPLETELY walls them as well :P chestorest could work, but it's only one time use. Specs suicune doesn't have the power output to achieve more KOs than CM one though. Chestorest is a viable option I gues?? However if suicune is slower than the one hitting it, it would have to rest earlier than when the opponent is slower if you get what I mean. Also, the only thing that will be hitting suicune is most likely it's counters so no matter how much CM you get, it still doesnt work. Like against quagsire which can wall icebeam and encore a CM/rest and slap a toxic. Chesto rest is best used when all the counters are gone. Anyway, best to sweep only when the counters are gone, so whichever set is used, I don't see much difference :P chesto rest can sneak in more CMs in one shot but suicune doesn't need as many CMs to sweep since it's not crocune :)

 

[B-Zard]

Well I just keep the Suicune set I have now. I am not going to change anything since this team is finished so far. I have just the ChestoRest set a few times (before you suggested it) and to me it didn't work quite well (might also be because of me using it the wrong way). Since Suicune is a late game sweeper it almost needs three attacks meaning it can have better coverage. Thanks for your suggestion but my team really is finished now.

Just as sandshrewz told Vappy and Shaymin don't wall Cune since a) I have Venusaur and b) a + 1 Ice Beam does a lot to Shaymin so If I would use one I wouldn't switch it in against Suicune since most carry Ice Beam c) most Vappy's don't carry Ice Beam anymore, Toxic might hurt though but I have Venusaur for that.

Something else: I made a threat list and made some other small changes in my first post.

 

[yingxuy]

Unless you need a ghost type or select the scarves users, Zapdos might be a better electric thanks he received immediate recovery. If you do not like him, try to set the more popular physical defense.