CAP 23 CAP 23 - Part 4 - Primary Ability Discussion

[nyttyn]

Abilities giving us offensive unpredictability isn't as much of a concern in a generation which has the wonderful world of Z-crystals, combined with the fact that CAP 23 can very well threaten a band Outrage set if you bluff it.

As for why we're stressing over Status: For starters, it makes swapping CAP 23 into any of these threats a crapshot at most, which in turn will dictate our stats to a questionable degree as we will need to swap in on things other than walls and pivots. At that point it also makes CAP 23 a fair deal less desirable, as there are already extremely potent wall breakers in CAP which have similar or lessened caveats but in exchange are incredibly difficult to swap in on - a luxury that CAP 23 may not get to have. Outside of that, CAP 23 will require a truly staggering amount of attack to perform its role, as each status condition will fuck with its ability to do its job in some way - Poison+Recover means that you'll need to go well past 2hkoing in order to safely win lest you get simply outlasted, Burn means that we will be worn down and deal halved damage, and Paralysis can just snatch defeat from the jaws of victory (thanks RNG!). Finally, one less move slot at all times would also mean that CAP 23 will only have two move slots to work with (Assuming Spirit Shackle finds a home on most, if not all sets), which in turn cuts down on its potential as a lure, as it is considerably easier to figure out and handle two wild cards instead of three.

Let us not forget either that Electric and Water, two of our resists, often inflict burns or paralysis as a chance. Yes, we could simply take on Shield Dust and simply consign ourselves to having to deal with Will-o-Wisp, Toxic, Thunder Wave, or Toxic Spikes, but we could also...not have to deal with those things period, and thus make CAP 23 more attractive and better at its job? It's not as if having this extra power is by any means a bad thing - if anything, it's another selling point for CAP 23 in a meta where shit like Ash Greninja, Magearna, the Tapus, Landorus-T, and the like exist and are freely allowed in the metagame - pokemon with fantastic typing, fantastic abilities, fantastic stats, and fantastic movepools.

I want to re-iterate that last point: We are not in a meta where a good typing alone is sufficient, nor a reason to cut back (especially this early on). We have not been for two generations now.

 

[Mr Holiday]

Please take these comments with a grain of salt. I do not participate in competitive Pokemon very much.

Of the abilities discussed so far, I really like Pressure and Tough Claws.

Even though our intended targets are, unless I'm misreading something, mainly bulky stallers like Toxapex, forcing them to use more PP while they're trapped can only help CAP23 and it's team. It may not be very flashy, but PP stalling low PP moves like Recover or the occasional high-power attack makes it a lot easier for CAP23 to finish the trapped target off, or failing that, makes it easier for the rest of the team to deal with later. The goal is to trap and destroy these targets through attacks or utility, and I for one would count PP stalling something to death as an effective part of that.

I like Tough Claws because, in my opinion, it makes it easier for CAP23 to kill it's trapped victims, without making it a sweeper. The boost from Tough Claws is enough to give us that extra oomph to put a bulky target down, but it's not something like Adaptability that lets us just nuke things with our STABS. you still have to think about what moves your using, and you still have to worry about our checks and counters being able to take the hit and dispose of CAP23.

I can see the appeal of Comatose, but I'm not quite sold on it. Maybe as a secondary or hidden ability, but I feel like, in the event CAP23 does end up with only one competitive ability, it should be something that's a bit more flexible than just always being asleep. Yeah, it keeps other status off of CAP23, but there are honestly other ways of dealing with status. I won't poll jump and go into specifics, but I think we all know what those options are. That being said, I don't think Comatose is a bad ability per se. It's just not what I would prefer.

One ability that I don't think has been brought up (correct me if I'm wrong, or if it happens to be banned) is Natural Cure. I know our goal isn't to switch CAP23 in and out a lot, but presumably we would be switching it at least occasionally, after it's done trapping and destroying something or if the target happens to run something unusual that disrupts our strategy. Since Dragon/Ghost isn't (to my knowledge) particularly vulnerable to any kinds of entry hazards, I would think having the option to switch CAP23 out and lose any statuses when it comes back in would help it's longevity and overall ability to trap and destroy other targets in the future.

That's my two cents, for it's worth.

 

[Vividsketch]

I have to throw my support behind Stakeout or Analytic.

They are, in many ways, lighter versions of suggested abilities such as Adaptability, Tough Claws, or Strong Jaw, in that they don't simply present a constant offensive threat, but rather an initial tangible one. TrapCAP does need to have an offensive presence, but not fall victim to simply being used as a sweeper instead.

There are those who have already stated that they feel Stakeout/Analytic are 'off concept' because they function as 'pseudo trapping' abilities because they discourage the opponent switching. And I'd say, in a vacuum, that I largely agree with that assessment.

But, this is not a vacuum, and the objective of this concept is build a Pokemon, with the right tools, around the successful execution of trapping moves and 'dismantling' of it's victims. Stakeout/Analytic help support the use and aid in the goal of using trapping moves. The very fact is the opponent CAN still switch, but it puts them in a position where they are posed with the question of whether it is advantageous to do so. Have their switch-in 'hit harder' and trapped, or not switch, and have their current Pokemon trapped (which was presumable at a disadvantage to begin with). This is very distinctly different to how regular trapping abilities work, and very much helps promote not just the success of trapping moves, but even just the 'threat' of trapping move.

Directly on concept again, Stakeout and Analytic do punish 'Defensive pivots/walls, VoltTurn pivots' (or rather what they are trying to pivot to), and 'Offensive Pokemon' attempting to come directly into TrapCAP. But again, once the initial pressure has dissipated, TrapCAP does not itself become a persistent offensive threat.

These abilities also help address the dilemma of TrapCAP wanting to 'lure' certain threats in to take advantage of them. This is a bit of a contradiction as in most instances what it 'lures' in will (theoretically) be an intended 'check' or 'counter' to TrapCap. But the initial pressure that Stakeout/Analytic provide, may make it so that by the second or third meeting, what was once a viable check, now becomes a questionable one. Or by a well placed Z-move or coverage move, doing slightly more damage than intended by the switch in, the 'check' becomes somewhat compromised. Or best yet (imo) TrapCAP luring in one of it's own checks, hitting it with buffed trapping move, and then being able to switch out for a team mate (with out the fear of a double switch) to take advantage of the lured and weakened TrapCAP check.

THIS, to me, is the most successful implementation of a trapping move user, outside of just out right trapping, then 'dismantling' a Pokemon... which is not likely to occur very often no matter how well this Pokemon is designed. It's just not the nature of the game or how it is played.

As to which of Stakeout or Analytic? Basically comes down to desired damage output. Which Stats and Movepool will also dictate. For right now I'd personally prefer Stakeout for it's greater potential for impact and 'success', the balance of which would then be more properly defined in aforementioned Stats and Movepool section later in this CAP.

 

[letterman4]

I would like to bring up a new ability, in Beast Boost. I looked over the banned abilities, and Beast Boost isn't on there! (feel free to delete this post if this ability becomes banned from discussion, due to Beast Boost being exclusive to Ultra Beasts.)

Beast Boost acts like Moxie, but it allows you to boost basically any stat of your choice. One could boost Sp.Atk, for Special sets, or boost Speed to make CAP23 harder to revenge kill. This makes it so there is no "one" set for CAP23, making it more unpredictable, and is makes it capable of luring in different Pokemon.

 

[VannAccessible]

In response to Trap Rest sets being an argument against Comatose/Status abilities:

Do we really want CAP's only option to trap and reliably kill Toxapex and Mollux to be to PP stall out their recovery with Rest? This seems like a really uninteresting design to beat things that are designated as its trap targets.

If this IS the case, and PP stalling these Poison mons is the route we want to go to beat them, then why aren't more people advocating for an ability like Pressure over abilities like Early Bird and Shed Skin? Wouldn't these abilities be counter productive for PP stalling? This is all besides the point, because for me, a 50 turn stall war does not like sound fun at all to me, and just comes off as lazy design.

And if it ISN'T the case, then Trap Cap's set becomes an extremely predictable Z Item, Dragon/Psychic attack, Spirit Shackle/Anchor Shot, Toxic, and Rest. And this set still runs the risk of being statused by its targets between using its Z Move and following up with Outrage or Dragon Claw or Zen Headbutt and may still easily loose to its target. And Tough Claws/Strong Jaw STILL don't boost Z moves, which make them unappealing to me this purpose.

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Following this argument to its logical point, a trap Rest set becomes really predictable when considering other options to beat Toxapex and Mollux, as Toxic trapping doesn't work on them.

I don't think CAP having Taunt is an option at this point, as we've already decided Skarmory should beat it, and Taunt would totally allow CAP to wreck it.

Using Encore to beat them runs into similar problems as Taunt, and screws Sub Seed Celesteela, which is designated a check.

Curse would be neat for pressure, but it also too screws things like Skarmory, Celesteela and Ferrothorn, our checks.

I would say you could naturally pair CAP with Tapu Lele to help boost a Psychic move, but the team preview ought to be a dead givaway that CAP23 is running Trap move+Psychic move as a means of removing Tomohawk/Toxapex/Mollux/Argonaught/Mega Venusaur/Amooungus, and then the surprise trap factor is eliminated and a smart player won't switch these mons into CAP23 to be trapper in the first place. This becomes anti-concept.

Conversely, if you try to pair it with Tapu Fini to protect it from status, this might eliminate the need for Rest, but Misty Terrain also weakens CAP's Dragon STAB, limiting its options in a different way, making the pairing counter productive.

No. Burns are a huge problem for CAP. Without an ability that lets it get by status, our trap list is immediately compromised, and any versatility for a functional trap set goes out the window.

 

[reachzero]

As for why we're stressing over Status: For starters, it makes swapping CAP 23 into any of these threats a crapshot at most, which in turn will dictate our stats to a questionable degree as we will need to swap in on things other than walls and pivots. At that point it also makes CAP 23 a fair deal less desirable, as there are already extremely potent wall breakers in CAP which have similar or lessened caveats but in exchange are incredibly difficult to swap in on - a luxury that CAP 23 may not get to have. Outside of that, CAP 23 will require a truly staggering amount of attack to perform its role, as each status condition will fuck with its ability to do its job in some way - Poison+Recover means that you'll need to go well past 2hkoing in order to safely win lest you get simply outlasted, Burn means that we will be worn down and deal halved damage, and Paralysis can just snatch defeat from the jaws of victory (thanks RNG!). Finally, one less move slot at all times would also mean that CAP 23 will only have two move slots to work with (Assuming Spirit Shackle finds a home on most, if not all sets), which in turn cuts down on its potential as a lure, as it is considerably easier to figure out and handle two wild cards instead of three.

Let us not forget either that Electric and Water, two of our resists, often inflict burns or paralysis as a chance. Yes, we could simply take on Shield Dust and simply consign ourselves to having to deal with Will-o-Wisp, Toxic, Thunder Wave, or Toxic Spikes, but we could also...not have to deal with those things period, and thus make CAP 23 more attractive and better at its job? It's not as if having this extra power is by any means a bad thing - if anything, it's another selling point for CAP 23 in a meta where shit like Ash Greninja, Magearna, the Tapus, Landorus-T, and the like exist and are freely allowed in the metagame - pokemon with fantastic typing, fantastic abilities, fantastic stats, and fantastic movepools.

I want to re-iterate that last point: We are not in a meta where a good typing alone is sufficient, nor a reason to cut back (especially this early on). We have not been for two generations now.

There is no reason to assume we should ever have to switch into any Pokemon on our"dismantle" list. In fact, since we want to lure those Pokemon, we should expect exactly the opposite! On the other hand, what you say about Water and Electric types is true; Discharge and Scald are not fun to switch in on. I am especially concerned, though, about exactly the concern you brought up: you mentioned Greninja, the Tapus, Landorus-T and Magearna as examples of coherent Pokemon with strong abilities, and that is exactly what concerns me. All of those except for Landorus-T have offensive abilities, and Landorus-T has an Attack stat much higher than we are likely to go with this. Unless we go for an unprecedented Attack stat later, I'm concerned that we'll end up insufficient power to actually break the things we intend to break. To follow your example, Tapu Bulu, physical Tapu Koko and Landorus-T are vulnerable to both Poison and Burn, Greninja is vulnerable to Poison and Paralysis, and none of these are thereby seriously compromised in their vulnerability. It's simply a pace of play concern.

 

[Shasimo]

Sure, we can give Adaptability, Poison Heal, Regenerator, Magik Guard, Prankster or Magic Bounce to every CAP we create but it is just less fun lol (and even not necessary).

On the subject of early bird, even if I proposed it, it is not my favorite ability. Toxic/Rest is a defensive strategy and we want to build an offensive trapper. Early bird + rest looks very fat, too fat in my opinion. I would really like we focus on an ability which increases the power of CAP23 instead of talking about the best way to avoid scald burn. It is nice to do not be affected by statuses but if due to that we are unable to kill toxapex, it does not have much interest. Ghost/Dragon is a great defensive typing but not a good offensive one. I showed calcs with a 130 base stat attack on the last page (which is very high for a CAP), we cannot deal with 6 of the 8 targets we want. We need to find a solution to this. And I repeat, a Substitute can get rid of statuses and we have lots of spinners in the tier to not fear toxic spikes.

However, I'm going to defend a bit Early Bird. This ability is different from others because it helps to heal yourself in removing a statut. We will take damages in trapping the foe (with leech seed, knock off, lava plume, etc). As I explained above, our STAB are not too difficult to handle to stallers so we will need at least few turns to be able to beat the foe. If we do not want to waste too much life in trapkilling just only one target, an healing move would be benefict for our dragon. To get rest in the moveset is not an useless slot which takes the place of a coverage move, rest helps us for the job of trapper. I think Early bird is the best ability for CAP23 to struggle against statuses (except Magik Guard/Comatose of course).

Anyway, I prefer an ability which helps CAP23 in an offensive way. Hustle and Strong Jaw are my favorite, Tough Claws is okay too even if it is a bit contradictory when we use a Z-move.

 

[Sereg]

As I've said before, Analytic and Stakeout in particular are anti-concept as they mean that your opponent is already discouraged from switching, which reduces your need to run trapping move.

I don't like Adaptability as it encourages STAB-spam when we decided we wanted Z-coverage to be viable. Also, like most damage-boosting abilities suggested, I fear it encouraging an ordinary sweeper or wall-breaker.

Strong Jaw boosts neither Z-coverage, nor a trapping move, so I don't like it either. Reckless and Rock Head have the same problem.

Pressure is a stall ability and we decided we did not want to stall.

Moxie and Beast Boost are for Sweeping. Not for trapping and taking down specific targets. So, I see them as anti-concept.

Natural Cure and Regenerator are activated by switching out, when we need to benefit from staying in so our targets cannot escape. As such, I don' like them either.

Prankster gives some benefits to non-damaging trapping moves, and can help with some problems, though it means our best trapping moves go unsupported.

Poison Heal, as I said, was for stalling, which we aren't doing, and uses up our item slot, whose only advantage is preventing Choice Items (which is good), though it also prevents things like Z-Crystals (less good).

Volt Absorb and similar electric immunity-granting abilities (Motor Drive and Lightning Rod) let us actually trap Volt-Switchers and therefore increase our ability as a trapper.

Merciless actually has decent synergy with trapping, so that's something I can support.

-ates just go for damage boosting without synergising with tapping, meaning they're turning us into a sweeper/wall-breaker.

Serene Grace again makes us better at doing things other than trapping.

Hustle is a damaging ability that benefits more from opponent's beng trapped, so it's one o the better ones IMO.

Guts again encourages sweeping, discourages Z-moves and most importantly discourages wasting time setting up a trap.

Contrary helps against intimidators and Parting Shot, which is great. It does limit our movpool a bit though, which is why I prefer Defiant a bit, though Competitive and Clear Body/White Smoke also work.

Steelworker is one of the better damage boosters as it boosts a damaging move without encouraging us to spam our best STAB attacks.

Intimidate is good for a trapper as your opponent can't switch out to heal their stats, though they can still switch out before the trapping move and this is more of a stall ability. If we're going for something similar to that, a better option may be Download.


Suction Cups removes the niche of Ingrain, so I'm not really happy supporting it.

Cursed Body works well with a trapper, though, again, it's more of a stall ability.

Anti-status might be nice, though I don't want us to be a generic wall or defensive pivot. In addition, we're meant to take down defensive mon quickly, making status less of a problem, with the biggest one being burn if you want to go that route. As we don't want to stall, it also means that rest shouldn't be something we have to rely on.

 

[BP]

I know I haven't paid much attention to the process besides the art portion but I think now is the perfect time for me to come in and say something about one ability that I think is the best possible thing we can do here.

Defiant in my honest opinion is a must for this CAP. I'm not sure if you outlawed already because to be completely honest I haven't read a single post from this thread besides the OP.

Reason why I think Defiant is the best possible ability we can give this thing:

• It pressures Defog users such as Tapu fini and the occasional Kartana and Kitsunoh heavily because of the Evasiveness drop.

• This pokemon is naturally part Ghost-type this means it is able to successfully block Rapid Spin users from clearing hazards from the field.

• It discourages the use of Sticky Web making it a fantastic asset.

• It makes using Pokemon such as Landorus-Therian very risky.

• The Pokemon it traps are not able to use any stat reducing moves in fear of giving this Pokemon +2 attack.

• It's typing is simply fantastic for it in terms of favor.

• Because of its Ghost-typing Curse cuts its HP in half instead of cutting its speed making it an absolute animal

Reasons why we might not want to give this CAP Defiant:

• It limits us stat wise making us more likely to be a Physical Attacking Pokemon

• Lord knows I love switching in Landorus-Therian willy nilly.

• We don't get to play with any new toys which I know a majority of people would like.

• no -ate ability which I've heard is pretty popular at least with the people on discord.

• Possibility of making this CAP completely borked movepool / Stat wise

 

[LucarioOfLegends]

I think its about time to share my thoughts about these abilities, since the thread is getting a bit out of hand.

Comatose: One of the big front runners right now, Comatose's main appeal is the complete elimination of possible status sheninigians from stuff like Toxapex and Tomohawk as well as eliminating possible burn/poison hax from Lava Plume and Sludge Bomb respectively. This is generally a better alternative to Magic Guard as it does not nullify Leech Seed from Celesteela and Ferrothorn as well as sustaining the Life Orb recoil, making it more preferred to use a Z-item to lure in stuff. It has been known to be problematic with certain moves, specifically phazing, but these are things that can very easily be avoided. Considering how defensively minded this ability actually is, however, actually KOing the "Target and Dismantle" Pokemon could become a serious problem unless we resort to ridiculously high Attack stats or more defensively minded strategies, especially considering that all but Tangrowth have reliable recovery moves. And although a much more minor point, it doesn't allow us to surprise the foe with a secondary ability, because Comatose declares itself when it enters battle. Even still, Comatose has a lot of support and a number of great things going for it, so it is very likely to get on the slate.

Tough Claws: Another very popular ability at the moment, Tough Claws gives a very general power boost to our desired Dragon moves like Outrage, as well as boosting coverage moves which can help us get through our targets. Considering how bulky these Pokemon actually are, being able to break through them without resorting to extreme means is a welcome benefit. However, concerns have risen about Spirit Shackle being outclassed by other Ghost STABs like Shadow Claw, which is a very valid concern. Otherwise, a very likely option for the slate.

Aerilate: It seems to have declined in popularity quite a bit, but Aerilate gives a strong Flying type coverage move without the drawbacks of Brave Bird or Sky Attack. This allows us to break through a number of Pokemon on our Target and Dismantle list, being Tomohawk, Tangrowth, Mega Venusaur, Pyroak, and Arghonaut. The main concern for this ability seems to be that it actually removes the ability to lure in said Target and Dismantle mons since they would be expecting it, as well as the possibility of other coverage moves, such as Psychic Fangs, being able to do a generally better job. I don't think that its that good for CAP23 to have an ability solely for the usage of a single coverage type, so this would need some more justification for usage to get on the slate.

Strong Jaw: Similar in the vein of Aerilate, Strong Jaw would be used to boost the power of biting moves to use as coverage. Unfortunately, there aren't actually that many Biting moves we could use if we want to maintain the threatlist, and its major justification seems to be for Strong Jaw Psychic Fangs. I don't like how narrow focused this ability actually is, and Tough Claws is can easily be seen as better because it applies to a much larger number of possible coverage moves. This ability really needs to be justified as an equal or better option over Tough Claws to move forward.

Shield Dust: This seems to have garnered some support, but it generally is percieved as an alternative to Comatose, since most status effects on the Target and Dismantle list are administered through secondary effects. It does still suffer from the "will we be able to break through them" conundrum, and it can't deflect Toxic and Will-O-Wisp directly. I'd like to see a bit more discussion on this ability if possible.

Stakeout/Analytic: Grouping these together since they achieve the same thing. These two abilities very much border the line of being anti-concept due to them falling into the pseudo-trapping category by punishing the switching itself. Combined with the power of Spirit Shackle as well, it could very easily force the opponent into lose lose situations as well: either don't switch and get trapped for less damage, or switch and still get trapped with much more damage. It needs a bit more justification to be better defined as not anti-concept, as well as not an incredible powerful ability.

Early Bird: Its one sole niche in the form of shorter Rest turns is very hard to justify on a primary ability slot, and Rest is generally hard to justify on a moveslot because it leaves CAP23 completely defenseless for at least two turns. It also is an incredibly defensively minded strategy, which is not what CAP23 is generally focused on. It doesn't seem like this ability has garnered too much support, so it is most likely not going to reach the slate.

Defiant: It doesn't really do too much, but it does have its uses in stopping Lando-T from switching in easily, punishes a Parting Shot from Kerfluffle, and can stop a Zapdos from Defogging. The major problem with it right now is that it really doesn't due too terribly much, and doesn't solve the problems that have been brought up about CAP23.

 

[Hys]

The major problem I see with Defiant is that it enables playstyles like Webs or A-veil to be extremely powerful vs bulkier teams, teams that shouldn't be losing to webs. With both a ghost typing and defiant the opponents can't effectively clear hazards, and it still has its innate ability to trap problematic mons for these offensive playstyles such as the ones mentioned in our threatlist, allowing for an extra sweeper, or wallbreaker. It seems like if it were to be given Defiant, it would stray from the the trapper and lean towards abusing its typing for niches. IMO, don't give it defiant

 

[Sereg]

Shield Dust isn't bad if you're worried about giving anything stronger. As far as Comatose is concerned though, the thing normally considered most broken about it is ComaPhase and we absolutely don't want to use phasing move anyway, so just ban them. The same can be done with Trick Room if it's too scary. Personally, I thin these are okay, even if I'm less enthused by them.

Defiant may not do a lot, but what it does is significant. Putting Lando in its place is an important goal for us and its a common mon. Intimidators can scare us away before we have a chance to trap a juicy target. This prevents that from being an issue and means that even if Lando U-Turns out our trap, we're buffed against whatever is sent against us. Sticky Web is a hazard and we want to be able to come in as easily as possible, so things that reduce Hazard effectiveness are good for us. Hazard Stack is also a useful strategy for trapping, so punishing defogging is also helpful. Especially as we function as a spinblocker anyway. What's more, it's less of an ability that risks us becoming a generic sweeper, Wall-breaker or wall. Also, we don't want things to Parting Shot out our traps without being punished for rendering our niche useless.

Stakeout/Analytic are anti-concept, because any ability that does a moves' job for it takes the ove's niche away and makes it less appealing to use.

 

[snake]

Shield Dust isn't bad if you're worried about giving anything stronger. As far as Comatose is concerned though, the thing normally considered most broken about it is ComaPhase and we absolutely don't want to use phasing move anyway, so just ban them. The same can be done with Trick Room if it's too scary. Personally, I thin these are okay, even if I'm less enthused by them.

Defiant may not do a lot, but what it does is significant. Putting Lando in its place is an important goal for us and its a common mon. Intimidators can scare us away before we have a chance to trap a juicy target. This prevents that from being an issue and means that even if Lando U-Turns out our trap, we're buffed against whatever is sent against us. Sticky Web is a hazard and we want to be able to come in as easily as possible, so things that reduce Hazard effectiveness are good for us. Hazard Stack is also a useful strategy for trapping, so punishing defogging is also helpful. Especially as we function as a spinblocker anyway. What's more, it's less of an ability that risks us becoming a generic sweeper, Wall-breaker or wall. Also, we don't want things to Parting Shot out our traps without being punished for rendering our niche useless.

Stakeout/Analytic are anti-concept, because any ability that does a moves' job for it takes the ove's niche away and makes it less appealing to use.

I honestly feel like this gives Defiant too much credit. There are only a few relevant Intimidate Pokemon in the current metagame: Landorus-T (obviously), Gyarados (which runs Moxie a lot of the time), and Mawile's base forme (which mega evolves as soon as it can and just uses Sucker Punch anyway). The rest of viable Pokemon with Intimidate use their other abilities or simply aren't very viable. So really, the only Intimidate Pokemon we have an advantage over is Landorus-T.

"Punishing Defog" sounds really nice, but think about what actually uses Defog. Common users include: Tapu Fini, Latios, Mega Latias, Kitsunoh, and Zapdos. Out of those five, four of them force us out, leaving Zapdos the only one that really cares about Defiant.

The only relevant Parting Shot user in the metagame is Kerfluffle, and while yes if you're brave enough to actually swap in CAP23 as Kerfluffle uses Parting Shot (as opposed to a super effective Moonblast), the opponent has the switch advantage to swap into something that forces CAP23 out. Who cares if CAP23 has +3 if it's sitting in front of a Colossoil? or a Greninja?

Laughing at Sticky Web is just a fringe benefit because it's an offensive playstyle and doesn't generally see the bulky Pokemon we want to threaten.

Basically, Defiant sounds good on paper, but we just don't have the typing to really use this ability well and the benefits it does provide are very limited in scope: dealing with Landorus-T and potentially Zapdos (not all run Defog).

 

[LucarioOfLegends]

Forgot to incorporate this into my previous post, and people will miss it if I just edit it.

Currently, the biggest concerns with the more defensively oriented abilities is that CAP23 will not have enough power to be able to get through most of our Target and Dismantle section, and they would just stall us out with recovery and chip damage. Shasimo showed through calcs how even 130 Attack isn't enough to be able to kill most of our Target and Dismantle Pokemon is a reasonable amount of turns. I'd like to know the ways that CAP23 would actually be beating our Target and Dismantle section if we were to choose that defensive ability.

With Aerilate and Strong Jaw, they seem focused on giving CAP23 one or two great coverage moves to use against our Target and Dismantle, but don't really do too much else for the rest of CAP23. There are a number of other moves and abilities that could generally accomplish the same effect as those two abilities, but also leave room for much more diversity. So, Why specifically would we need Aerilate or Strong Jaw to use this type of coverage move effectively compared to just using something like Tough Claws?

 

[nyttyn]

i think shield dust is just crappy comatose which gives our opponents a chance to run stuff like WoW on mollux instead. Ergo, I don't see much of a reason to slate it when it does what Comatose does, but a bit worse with no real upside besides a little less power which we're super unlikely to take advantage of down the line just due to how CAP works.

likewise, Strong Jaws is just a crappier Tough Claws for the sake of CAP 23, as the only move it boosts that's worthwhile over tough claws is psychic fang. We don't really care about any of the other fang moves, as they're either too narrow or fuck with our C&C list.

Aerielate isn't strictly worse than Tough Claws, but is somewhat of a waste of an ability slot when we can just use flying attacks with tough claws instead.

Analytic is good on anything that forces swaps, but doesn't really help us take down the mons we're targeting. It's not a bad ability for a trapper like this, but it'd shift the dynamic of how CAP 23 works away from what we've already agreed upon and I do not beleive that's ideal. Stakeout is just absurdly strong for something with a move that almost ensures a swap (and is somewhat absurd in general.).

I maintain that Early Bird will, at best, lead us down a much more wall-y path, and at worst give us a ungodly broken/centralizing defensive mon.

Defiant doesn't....really do much? It's not worth an entire ability slot in this instance, and is kind of just...a bit of power that doesn't help us accomplish our goals that well, if at all.

I still hold that Comatose is our best ability choice, and that we can enhance our kill potential down the line.

As things stand, I'd support Comatose, Tough Claws, and Aerielate for the slate personally.

As for how we can beat our Target and Dismantle list: Tomohawk would lose a 1 on 1 duel with any CAP 23 set that packs both Toxic and some form of reliable recovery, unless we are exceptionally frail. Flynium Z Brave Bird handles the rest of the flying weak mons, Mollux is doomed in a 1 on 1 if we have reliable recovery as we will easily outpace him, likewise Zapdos whom would also fall to toxic. If we add in the possibility of set-up moves, it becomes possible to lure some of these mons in - likewise, a band set would lure them in, as would a scarf set, both of which flynium-z can bluff. All of this assuming a ceiling of 130 attack at most, and there's room for more lures and ways to beat our dismantle list than this - these are simply some of the possible ways we can tackle the issue of killing them down the line. Q.E.D., the loss of power at the ability stage is not a problem, and as such a defensive ability (Comatose) is more than possible.

 

[Vividsketch]

As I've said before, Analytic and Stakeout in particular are anti-concept as they mean that your opponent is already discouraged from switching, which reduces your need to run trapping move.

Stakeout/Analytic: Grouping these together since they achieve the same thing. These two abilities very much border the line of being anti-concept due to them falling into the pseudo-trapping category by punishing the switching itself. Combined with the power of Spirit Shackle as well, it could very easily force the opponent into lose lose situations as well: either don't switch and get trapped for less damage, or switch and still get trapped with much more damage. It needs a bit more justification to be better defined as not anti-concept, as well as not an incredible powerful ability.

As I mentioned a few posts above, I can see how and agree that Stakeout/Analytic could be seen as pseudo-trapping abilities and there for 'anti-concept'. But I believe they are being look at from the wrong perspective.

Rather than Analytic and Stakeout 'reducing the need' for Trapping Moves, on the contrary I instead think they promote the viability of their use. To help 'complete the trap' as it were. Analytic and Stakeout are NOT Trapping Abilities, but the do potentially enhance the effectiveness of trapping moves.

The obvious short coming of Trapping Moves as appose to Trapping Abilities, is that they take a full turn to actually come into affect. Analytic and Stakeout put a direct emphasis on what will happen the very next turn (and not any further beyond as other more offensive abilities can do) which is the exact time frame that we need for trapping moves to be effective in. Bridging the gap a little, so to speak. It implements a gravity to what is to happen next, and makes the potential threat of trapping moves real.

This combination does lay somewhat of a 'trap' for the opponent and does put them in minor 'lose lose situations' (though I don't think it's as dire as we might imagine), but it does still allow them an entire turn to play out of it, and react with an entire list of checks and counters (aside from what ever other counter plays and innovations they come up with) that we, ourselves are enforcing. Trapping Abilities, do not allow for this option (by definition Arena Trappers/Shadow Taggers can not be countered).

The goal of this CAP is to build a Pokemon that has a collaboration of Typing, Moves, Stats, and Abilities that make the use of Trapping Moves in particular an effective strategy. Stakeout and Analytic are not 'anti-concept', they are specifically PRO-concept.

 

[Garbagery]

Tough Claws seems good in a way that spirit shackle trapping sets arent ur only option while not overshadowing it. Unfortunately, outrage will become a powerful weapon and if you give it dragon claw, theres the possibility a band set might be used over the trap set all tthe time, but im probs just being paranoid

Stake out/ Analytic are definitely pro-concept. They're not trapping abilities as the concept is about trap moves, and punishing switches. Trapping moves has a direct flaw of waiting a turn where the enemy might swap out to a counter, basically ripping our trap strategy in half. So having these will help our trapping not be a big dud

Beast boost means our cap 23 is a Ub. I dont have much to say about it other than it sounds weird and dangerous (i'm biased abt this option tho cus one of my designs loons like a UB)

 

[Shasimo]

Why specifically would we need Aerilate or Strong Jaw to use this type of coverage move effectively compared to just using something like Tough Claws?

The fact is Aerialte/Strong Jaw hits stronger than Tough Claws on the right Pokémon. Just look at these calcs on a 130 bst Attack CAP23

252 Atk Tough Claws Garchomp Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 160-189 (44 - 52%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Garchomp Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 168-198 (46.2 - 54.5%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Strong Jaw Garchomp Psychic Fangs vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 174-206 (47.9 - 56.7%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO

It is not a detail, it is or a 2HKO or a 3HKO (without Z-Move). 130 is already very high for a CAP, we are not going to exaggerate either in giving it an astronomic bst Attack.

In bold, it means we are able to 2HKO the mon (without Z-Move, 130 Attack, at least 20% chance to 2HKO). I do not add the calcs to avoid to write an hideous post but you can check it on calculator Showdown. I took the most common sets :

Tough Claws : Tomohawk, Toxapex, Tangrowth, Arghonaut, Pyroak, Mollux, Mega Venusaur, Zapdos
Aerilate : Tomohawk, Toxapex, Tangrowth, Arghonaut, Pyroak, Mollux, Mega Venusaur, Zapdos
Strong Jaw : Tomohawk, Toxapex, Tangrowth, Arghonaut, Pyroak, Mollux, Mega Venusaur, Zapdos

I will write later on my opinion between these three abilities.

---

I would like to add something. We are talking about an offensive CAP, to get only Toxic-stall to beat Pokemon we have targeted is anti-concept.
Lucario or moderators can correct me if I'm wrong but I think we are focusing on a trapper set for the moment and how to beat the Pokemon listed above in trapping them. A band set do not really work with trapping.

 

[SamHPL]

I'm not really participating in the discussion, but if there's something I really don't like, it's Aerilate, for specially two reasons:
a) If our main ability is a way of hitting Tomo, Venu-M, Tang, etc. supereffectively, why would they even switch-in?
b) It's completely unpreccedent a pokemon with an -ate (Aerilate, Pixilate, Refrigerate) or -ize (Galvanize, Normalize) ability without the matching typing. There's a reason for that: it just doesn't really make sense and seems like we're really trying hard to beat some specific mons, no matter how weird a Dragon/Ghost with Aerilate may seem.

Also, I'm not reading everything, so I would like to ask: the ideia of trapper + set-up mon was completely set aside? Because I haven't seen people really talk about it, and that's something very related to CAP 23's ability.

 

[Sereg]

As I mentioned a few posts above, I can see how and agree that Stakeout/Analytic could be seen as pseudo-trapping abilities and there for 'anti-concept'. But I believe they are being look at from the wrong perspective.

Rather than Analytic and Stakeout 'reducing the need' for Trapping Moves, on the contrary I instead think they promote the viability of their use. To help 'complete the trap' as it were. Analytic and Stakeout are NOT Trapping Abilities, but the do potentially enhance the effectiveness of trapping moves.

The obvious short coming of Trapping Moves as appose to Trapping Abilities, is that they take a full turn to actually come into affect. Analytic and Stakeout put a direct emphasis on what will happen the very next turn (and not any further beyond as other more offensive abilities can do) which is the exact time frame that we need for trapping moves to be effective in. Bridging the gap a little, so to speak. It implements a gravity to what is to happen next, and makes the potential threat of trapping moves real.

This combination does lay somewhat of a 'trap' for the opponent and does put them in minor 'lose lose situations' (though I don't think it's as dire as we might imagine), but it does still allow them an entire turn to play out of it, and react with an entire list of checks and counters (aside from what ever other counter plays and innovations they come up with) that we, ourselves are enforcing. Trapping Abilities, do not allow for this option (by definition Arena Trappers/Shadow Taggers can not be countered).

The goal of this CAP is to build a Pokemon that has a collaboration of Typing, Moves, Stats, and Abilities that make the use of Trapping Moves in particular an effective strategy. Stakeout and Analytic are not 'anti-concept', they are specifically PRO-concept.

Stake out/ Analytic are definitely pro-concept. They're not trapping abilities as the concept is about trap moves, and punishing switches. Trapping moves has a direct flaw of waiting a turn where the enemy might swap out to a counter, basically ripping our trap strategy in half. So having these will help our trapping not be a big dud

If they help us complete the trap, they also make it completely unnecessary to spring the trap at all. If the opponent can't switch before you spring the trap, they also can't switch before you do whatever it is that you wanted to trap them for and you can therefore do that immediately instead of wasting your time trapping. These abilities make trapping moves pointless to run and are therefore anti-concept.

 

[Project_Mars]

Imo Another couple of strikes against Analytic/Stakeout would be, for starters, the fact that it doesn't directly help deal with the list of things we want to check/counter. The current top suggestions either enhance coverage options that deal with that list (Aerialate, Strong Jaw, Tough Claws) or reduce or eliminate the chance for status to destroy TrapCAP's usability (Comatose and Shield Dust). Those abilities have a more immediate impact when dealing with the list of stuff we want to deal with, while Analytic/Stakeout do not.

Plus, you then have the fact that Stakeout deals double damage to the switch-in, which when coupled with the amazing neutral coverage of Dragon/Ghost means that anything switching in on TrapCAP would be taking a huge chunk of damage for its troubles. Furthermore, you could just run Band and be capable of deleting Pokemon that attempt to come in unless they happen to be immune the move you picked. As a result, it may as well be a trapping ability because it has a high potential of forcing your opponent to sacrifice a Pokemon to deal with it, either by leaving something that TrapCAP wants to dismantle in or by switching out and potentially taking a grevious, if not fatal, amount of damage. So tl;dr version is this: Stakeout would be problematic due to the sheer power it would hit switch-ins with.
Analytic does dial back the damage a bit, only dealing 30% extra vs doubling it, however even then there is the fact that it triggers by going last, which does pose a different sort of problem. One of the ways we want TrapCAP to be checked with is for faster sweepers to outspeed and KO. If they are unable to OHKO, however, then they will have to be able to stomach an analytic-boosted attack, potentially for the second time if they switched in the middle of a turn, which may be difficult for some of them to do. Tl;dr: For a Pokemon where most of the checks/counters to it rely on stats to beat it, Analytic poses a problem since it potentially invalidates a lot of Pokemon who rely on a specific stat, in this case Speed, to handle it.

Other abilities to comment on:
Moxie/Beast Boost: I am a bit more okay with these, despite the fact that they do nothing more immeidate towards the list of counters/checks. The reason why can actually be summed up with a quote from the concept assessment:

4. Opponents should expect a trapping move set but fear a) the other moves CAP23 will run and b) non-trapping sets. (i.e. a) "Now that I've been trapped, is A, B, or etc. going to happen?" and b) "I've been playing around CAP23 like it's been running a trap move, but it's really not!")

These two abilities can not only fall under the second portion, but can also influence Trap sets to be more of a late-game cleaner as well, with the aim of trapping a weakened Pokemon that TrapCAP isn't to bothered by and attempting to snowball to victory after knocking it out. I would like to say that this is probably not the right concept for Beast Boost since it would likely be better utilized on a Pokemon with a more even stat spread (ala Celesteela) vs a Pokemon that would likely raise Attack or Speed. That said, I do believe that the Primary ability should address the list of Pokemon we want TrapCAP to target and dismantle, so I do not believe that Moxie should be a primary ability.

Merciless: While it does have some synergy, this ability would not only require us to be able to poison the opponents first, but be unusable on Mollux/MegaVenu since they are immune to poison. I believe that it doesn't go far enough to justify using it and should be avoided.

 

[Vividsketch]

If they help us complete the trap, they also make it completely unnecessary to spring the trap at all. If the opponent can't switch before you spring the trap, they also can't switch before you do whatever it is that you wanted to trap them for and you can therefore do that immediately instead of wasting your time trapping. These abilities make trapping moves pointless to run and are therefore anti-concept.

I do appreciate what is being said here. This is coming from some who can both see, and has even conceded how this point could be seen as valid. But I still think this line of reasoning is very short sighted and misguided. I do not agree with it at all.

I'll try and demonstrate my point further, again by quoting LucarioOfLegends, who I feel put it rather well despite, ironically, intending to speaking AGAINST Analytic/Stakeout.

Stakeout/Analytic: Combined with the power of Spirit Shackle as well, it could very easily force the opponent into lose lose situations as well: either don't switch and get trapped for less damage, or switch and still get trapped with much more damage.

It was being pointed out that the 'pseudo trapping' abilities of Stakeout/Analytic, make the need or use of Trapping Moves, redundant. When in actually I think that is completely false. They make the prospect of a Trapping Moves a much realer danger. It's the synergy between the two that I feel make the threat of the Trapping move far more compelling. I also think many people as are VASTLY OVERESTIMATING the impact and effective of Stakeout/Analytic in isolation.

The claim is that Stakeout/Analytic are 'pseudo trapping' abilities, therefore 'anti-concept'. But let's assess for a moment what they ACTUALLY DO, and in comparison to other suggested abilities in this thread.

Stakeout/Analytic raise the Attack of the user. For one turn. Only under specific conditions (on a switch-in). A condition that is, in fact, dictated by the OPPONENT, and not the user at all. Their Attack boost is, limited, time dependent(very), circumstantial, controllable and predictable.
Where as there are other suggested Abilities such as Adaptability/Tough Claws/Strong Jaw, which all raise the users Attack INDEFINITELY for the entire duration of the match. And none share many, if any, of the drawbacks of Stakeout/Analytic.

I want to make it clear that I don't actually have any issue with the above mention abilities for this concept. In fact I'm rather in support of them for varies reasons that they do help progress the CAP's mission statement. But I bring them up to compare in stark contrast to Stakeout/Analytic. And I pose the question that, if we follow the logic that this thread has largely adopted about Stakeout/Analytic, would the above three Abilities not also be 'anti-concept' (in not greater so) posed solely on what they actually DO??? Rather than the ill conceived notion of what they 'are' ('pseudo trapping' abilities)?

My fear right now is that Stakeout/Analytic have been unjustifiably labeled as 'anti-concept' base on a false pretense, and there for are simply being dismissed without further thought. Which means they are not even being given the proper chance to have their viability and merits discussed or explored at all.


Edit:

Imo Another couple of strikes against Analytic/Stakeout would be, for starters, the fact that it doesn't directly help deal with the list of things we want to check/counter. The current top suggestions either enhance coverage options that deal with that list (Aerialate, Strong Jaw, Tough Claws) or reduce or eliminate the chance for status to destroy TrapCAP's usability (Comatose and Shield Dust). Those abilities have a more immediate impact when dealing with the list of stuff we want to deal with, while Analytic/Stakeout do not.

Plus, you then have the fact that Stakeout deals double damage to the switch-in, which when coupled with the amazing neutral coverage of Dragon/Ghost means that anything switching in on TrapCAP would be taking a huge chunk of damage for its troubles. Furthermore, you could just run Band and be capable of deleting Pokemon that attempt to come in unless they happen to be immune the move you picked. As a result, it may as well be a trapping ability because it has a high potential of forcing your opponent to sacrifice a Pokemon to deal with it, either by leaving something that TrapCAP wants to dismantle in or by switching out and potentially taking a grevious, if not fatal, amount of damage. So tl;dr version is this: Stakeout would be problematic due to the sheer power it would hit switch-ins with.
Analytic does dial back the damage a bit, only dealing 30% extra vs doubling it, however even then there is the fact that it triggers by going last, which does pose a different sort of problem. One of the ways we want TrapCAP to be checked with is for faster sweepers to outspeed and KO. If they are unable to OHKO, however, then they will have to be able to stomach an analytic-boosted attack, potentially for the second time if they switched in the middle of a turn, which may be difficult for some of them to do. Tl;dr: For a Pokemon where most of the checks/counters to it rely on stats to beat it, Analytic poses a problem since it potentially invalidates a lot of Pokemon who rely on a specific stat, in this case Speed, to handle it.

In fairness, I don't really think much of this is reasonable way to invalidate Analytic/Stakeout either.

Other abilities are toted for their aim to target specific Pokemon we want to check/counter (which I also agree is a worth while endeavor) but is by their own definition also very limiting. It's also inferred that Analytic/Stakeout will not manage any of these specific targets, where as moments later it is explained how they might actually hit too hard and deal with too much?!? I see a lack of consistency here.

There are a lot of assumption being made here about 'how hard we will potentially hit' and 'how fast we will be' compared to out checks/counter list. Also how does, 'just run Band and be capable of deleting Pokemon', not also equally ably to other Attack Up Abilities??

We still have an an entire Stats, and Movepool process to go through in which we will far more closely define what and how we want to check specific threats, based on any Abilities we choose. This will go a long way to mitigating any concerns we have about any of that at this point. We have a clever, sensible and experienced community here, who know how to build a balanced CAPMon.

 

[nyttyn]

First of all, I'm going to completely dismiss Stakeout, as it is far and away too strong. Like, for all the problems I'm about to bring up with Analytic, Stakeout would have those to an exaggerated effect since its strength is, in turn, exaggerated in comparison.

So, a greater issue with Analytic isn't necessarily that it's pro or anti concept, but that it fucks with our threats list directly by forcing CAP 23 to have a lower attack stat to be balanced. Thus, our ability to kill them is compromised - as we only get the damage bonus when they switch in, which will almost certainly be on Spirit Shackle, which does not have the raw killing power that our coverage moves would possess for our checks and counters. We need to be around 130 attack for Flynium Z Brave Bird (which is in the upper echelon of power) to fully handle our target and dismantle list - and there is no way in hell we're going to be 130 attack on a Analytic user.

To pre-empt the low speed so everything outfasts us argument: Then why aren't we just giving CAP 23 the base attack it would require in the first place? Which is, in turn, its own bag of issues as several of these mons being able to outfast us with recovery means that we'd have to always get clean OHKOs with Z-Moves, lest they simply Recover their health back, which in turn requires...well, a frankly outrageous amount of attack.

Ergo, Analytic is a really awful idea on that basis alone. It would also encourage Choice Band and Life Orb sets which seek to utilize it and change from a Trap and Eliminate to simply a really strong wallbreaker. And when I say really strong, I mean a slow Choice Band Analytic set wins a 1 on 1 with Skarmory with Spirit Shackle at 120 attack which is completely outrageous, and it only needs 110-115 attack to decisevely 2hko or more most "bulky" pokemon, which is a real problem when there are very few resists to CAP 23's spirit shackle.

Edit: oh yeah also tough claws doesnt boost z-moves which gives it the same issues i listed here, only it also makes our spirit shackle ass as well which is ???? why this????

 

[Sereg]

I do appreciate what is being said here. This is coming from some who can both see, and has even conceded how this point could be seen as valid. But I still think this line of reasoning is very short sighted and misguided. I do not agree with it at all.

I'll try and demonstrate my point further, again by quoting LucarioOfLegends, who I feel put it rather well despite, ironically, intending to speaking AGAINST Analytic/Stakeout.



It was being pointed out that the 'pseudo trapping' abilities of Stakeout/Analytic, make the need or use of Trapping Moves, redundant. When in actually I think that is completely false. They make the prospect of a Trapping Moves a much realer danger. It's the synergy between the two that I feel make the threat of the Trapping move far more compelling. I also think many people as are VASTLY OVERESTIMATING the impact and effective of Stakeout/Analytic in isolation.

The claim is that Stakeout/Analytic are 'pseudo trapping' abilities, therefore 'anti-concept'. But let's assess for a moment what they ACTUALLY DO, and in comparison to other suggested abilities in this thread.

Stakeout/Analytic raise the Attack of the user. For one turn. Only under specific conditions (on a switch-in). A condition that is, in fact, dictated by the OPPONENT, and not the user at all. Their Attack boost is, limited, time dependent(very), circumstantial, controllable and predictable.
Where as there are other suggested Abilities such as Adaptability/Tough Claws/Strong Jaw, which all raise the users Attack INDEFINITELY for the entire duration of the match. And none share many, if any, of the drawbacks of Stakeout/Analytic.

I want to make it clear that I don't actually have any issue with the above mention abilities for this concept. In fact I'm rather in support of them for varies reasons that they do help progress the CAP's mission statement. But I bring them up to compare in stark contrast to Stakeout/Analytic. And I pose the question that, if we follow the logic that this thread has largely adopted about Stakeout/Analytic, would the above three Abilities not also be 'anti-concept' (in not greater so) posed solely on what they actually DO??? Rather than the ill conceived notion of what they 'are' ('pseudo trapping' abilities)?

My fear right now is that Stakeout/Analytic have been unjustifiably labeled as 'anti-concept' base on a false pretense, and there for are simply being dismissed without further thought. Which means they are not even being given the proper chance to have their viability and merits discussed or explored at all.

The reason that Stakeout/Analytic are more anti-concept is precisely because of the limitations you mention. They encourage the opponent not to switch, because they know they'll be damaged less if they don't. No matter how dangerous the other abilities are, the opponent knows that if they switch, it won't be increasing the damage they take, so they won't be punished specifically for switching.

Now, I do think that Adaptability, for example, is almost as bad. Not only does it encourage band sets, but it discourages us from running coverage, which we explicitly wanted to use.

Strong Jaw is something I don't like much more than Adaptability. Because it specifically boosts a very limited number of moves that aren't particularly improved by trapping and some of them are coverage we don't want anyway. It also gives us much more predictability than we want. We specifically don't want people to have to run Psychic Fangs to benefit from our ability.

Tough Claws is not one of my favourites, but it at least boosts a limited number of moves which include a trapping move. Honestly though, if we went that kind of route, I'd prefer Steelworker. It boosts the same trapping move without encouraging STAB spam.


Most of the offensive abilities are ones I fear as encouraging Sweepers and Wall-breakers instead of Trappers to be honest.

 

[Panic Station]

I think there's merit in Volt Absorb as an ability. It may not deal with the dismantle list, but it handles an issue that has been brought up since the beginning of discussion for our concept: Volt Switch. Springing Volt Absorb on a Volt Switch mon will not only foil the pivot, but give us a nice bit of healing to boot.