CAP Updates: Malaconda Discussion (Complete)

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G-Luke

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Its like people forget that Stamina activates on all damaging attacks, and not just physical. For example, you can predict a Hydro Pump from a Rotom-Wash for example and switch in. Leftovers literally heals back the damage, and Mal gets a +1 for free

0 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Malaconda: 37-44 (8.5 - 10.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Now Rotom is pressured to switch out and risk getting a switch in paralyzed or crippled via Knock Off. Or being nailed by a Power Whip. And if the player is really foolish, a simple usually risk free Volt Switch gives Malaconda another boost in defense! Which allows Mal to do crazy stuff like survive U-Turns from Syclant, Flame Orb Colossoil and other ridiculous shit.

252+ Atk Guts Colossoil U-turn vs. +2 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 364-432 (83.8 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Nope Nope Nope Nope Ban Stamina discussion!
 

jas61292

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Its like people forget that Stamina activates on all damaging attacks, and not just physical. For example, you can predict a Hydro Pump from a Rotom-Wash for example and switch in. Leftovers literally heals back the damage, and Mal gets a +1 for free

0 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Malaconda: 37-44 (8.5 - 10.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Now Rotom is pressured to switch out and risk getting a switch in paralyzed or crippled via Knock Off. Or being nailed by a Power Whip. And if the player is really foolish, a simple usually risk free Volt Switch gives Malaconda another boost in defense! Which allows Mal to do crazy stuff like survive U-Turns from Syclant, Flame Orb Colossoil and other ridiculous shit.

252+ Atk Guts Colossoil U-turn vs. +2 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 364-432 (83.8 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Nope Nope Nope Nope Ban Stamina discussion!
While your particular example might not be the best (depending on the Rotom set it can stay in and Wisp Malaconda, and it is immune to Glare, meaning using that move on a predicted switch is risky), this overall is a very important point. Stamina activates on every hit. Not just contact. Not just physical. All offensive moves that hit it. Malaconda has such incredible special bulk that it will almost always be switching into a special attacker, meaning that with Stamina, it would be operating at at least +1 defense nearly the entire time. Personally, I think that is far too good for what we want.
 

Drapionswing

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I'm not sold on Filter. I think it gives malaconda the ability to punish a lot of pokemon that would otherwise beat it very freely with Glare. I don't think malaconda should be able to abuse weaker attackers or deter sweepers/wallbreakers to the extent that I think Filter will allow.

252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 166-198 (38.2 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 249-294 (57.3 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Volcarona Inferno Overdrive (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 279-330 (64.2 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Inferno Overdrive (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 420-495 (96.7 - 114%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

180+ SpA Venusaur-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 132-157 (30.4 - 36.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Venusaur-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 103-123 (23.7 - 28.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 274-324 (63.1 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Volkraken U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Malaconda: 111-132 (25.5 - 30.4%) -- 0.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Tomohawk Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 213-252 (49 - 58%) -- 51.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Tomohawk Supersonic Skystrike (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 274-324 (63.1 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Tomohawk Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 82-99 (18.8 - 22.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 148-175 (34.1 - 40.3%) -- 35.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Syclant Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 316-374 (72.8 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Syclant Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 158-187 (36.4 - 43%) -- 96.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0- Atk Tornadus-Therian U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Malaconda: 204-243 (47 - 55.9%) -- 20.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 117-139 (26.9 - 32%) -- 35.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Mollux Lava Plume vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 99-117 (22.8 - 26.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Mollux Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 112-132 (25.8 - 30.4%) -- 0.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda in Sun: 280-333 (64.5 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Malaconda: 365-433 (84.1 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 148-175 (34.1 - 40.3%) -- 38.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 150-177 (34.5 - 40.7%) -- 52.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 139-166 (32 - 38.2%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 229-271 (52.7 - 62.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 208-247 (47.9 - 56.9%) -- 34.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 208-247 (47.9 - 56.9%) -- 34.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 139-166 (32 - 38.2%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Nihilego Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 139-163 (32 - 37.5%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Nihilego Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 195-231 (44.9 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Pidgeot-Mega Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 166-198 (38.2 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Pidgeot-Mega U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Malaconda: 171-204 (39.4 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Magearna Twinkle Tackle (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 288-339 (66.3 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 190-226 (43.7 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Magearna All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 186-220 (42.8 - 50.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


+6 252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 294-346 (67.7 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


Filter is definitely going to affect a wide variety of the special attackers in the metagame as you can see from the above calcs. While malaconda still loses some of those matchups it allows it to fire off a glare and paralyse a ton of pokemon for a little exchange in most cases. Not only this, but pokemon that would otherwise beat it like Magearna or Charizard-Mega-Y just lose as malaconda can heal off the burst damage and just win by clicking synthesis constantly. While synthesis does 8 PP it still means these pokemon that would otherwise beat a Grass/Dark pokemon can NOT beat malaconda.

I just want people to know that this is going to be a BIG update if malaconda does receive it.
 
Since I've caught up on reading the latest posts in this thread, I'll be presenting my thoughts on the following three abilities, Stamina, Filter, and Grassy Surge.
You clearly were writing the post in longform because you never gave your thoughts on Grassy Surge despite mentioning it. Likely because the post was removed from bounds based on prior discussion about updates. But I'm not entirely sure why, when it comes to Malaconda.
Specifically, CAP Staff has discussed the matter of what we consider "defining abilities." These are effects so powerful that they warp the entire way the Pokemon plays on both an individual and team level. The best example of these effects are Auto-Weather and Auto-Terrain, which are in offensive and team support categories within themselves. Many other Abilities such as Huge Power, Water Bubble, and Magic Bounce have similar warping characteristics, but those are generally restricted to primary discussions to begin with. In general our Secondary Ability Ban List is a a decent guide for many of these discussions, but not a complete one.

It is the consensus of CAP Staff that our Updates, even major ones, should be strongly limited by not redefining our previous CAP creations in ways that change their entire role on a team. To take a few examples of our recent and ongoing CAPs, many are concerned about Triage redefining Revenankh to be more akin to a Gen 7 Talonflame, while Voodoom's updates are considered generally tasteful and modest and Naviathan's significant Ability change in line with that CAP's goals
The problem with that is most of the abilities being proffered here fall into that specific "defining abilities" category. Regenerator, Speed Boost, Stamina, all the sort of abilities which not only define a Pokemon but have the capacity to warp "the entire way the Pokemon plays on both an individual and team level". Generally the scope of these updates are meant to be restrained as to maintain "previous CAP creations...role on a team". With that in mind, Revenankh was clearly an exception to this as he was given Triage, which also falls into the same area as the other abilities. He was given Triage because it was the best option compared to Filter and Poison Heal and it was found to be a goal-oriented ability that helped enhance Revenankh's concept. The same applies to Naviathan's ability in the buff both conceptually and viably from Water Veil to Guts. Guts albeit is truthfully modest in comparison, but precedent for the upgrade lays in that both modest and defining abilities like where there is a) conceptual synergy and b) it is viable in a competitive manner for the CAP at hand. Then it is no wonder they were put forth, as that is the goal of the updates (as noted below): to make non-competitively viable CAPs competitively viable (e.g. Revenankh and Malaconda), competitively viable CAPs more competitively viable if necessary (e.g. Naviathan), and for the rest to add flavor updates (e.g. Syclant). Flavor is always going to be there, but like always takes a backseat to competitive viability.
Competitive Updates:
  1. Update in terms of concept: This is a continuation of the CAP's original concept and it is an effort to make the CAP fulfill its concept in the current metagame, despite the role it currently has. It is up for debate what kinds of changes (eg addition/removal of moves and/or abilities) this would entail. Consistent with the main CAP process, flavor is not taken into account when making these changes.
  2. Update in terms of viability: This type of update aims to 'buff' or 'nerf' a CAP Pokémon based on how it currently functions in the metagame. This type of update tries to preserve the 'essence' of the Pokémon - namely it still has the same role both before and after the changes, but the result is that it performs that role either better or worse. Again, flavor is not taken into account when making these changes.
When noting that I'm not the only one proposing "defining abilities" for Malaconda, the curt reply is one of inches:
There's an objective difference between an ability you can build a whole team around like an auto-terrain (which jams other auto-terrain based teams inherently) or an auto-weather and an ability that is decent on a mon individually (your speed boosts, magic guards, etc.)
An "objective difference" between Grassy Surge and Speed Boost, Regenerator, etc... because of its individual nature verse being a field ability. Well, that's certainly true, there is an objective difference between an ability that affects the field and an ability that solely affects the Pokemon. There are a few problems with that line of thinking, though.

1. Grassy Surge is outside of the scope of the update:

Grassy Surge and its accompanying field-augmenting abilities are outside the overall scope of the updates planned for CAPs. Let's walk through that claim.

What is the overall goal of the scope parameters for updates? Based on competitive determinants, 1) to fulfill its conceptual role to the best of its ability if it is no longer doing so with its current ability/movepool and 2) fixing competitive viability where necessary to be more in turn with the current generation while still maintaining the same conceptual notion, role, and match ups.

And based on those competitive determinants, why would Grassy Surge be among abilities outside the scope of the update? "It is the consensus of CAP Staff that our Updates, even major ones, should be strongly limited by not redefining our previous CAP creations in ways that change their entire role on a team."

So then there is a consensus that updates should be "strongly limited" to safeguard against 'redefining previous CAPs role'. That makes sense, so why are redefining-capable abilities being proposed despite the axing of Grassy Surge (which doesn't redefine Malaconda's role)? The ability unlike others (Stamina, Filter, Speed Boost, Regenerator) add buffs that don't correlate with its conceptual role: sun team rain check or water/ground/electric switch. Stamina and Filter are both being shown to warp its match ups and add undesired defensive buffs that have the potential to drastically alter its capacity to wall, thereby making it less a bulky special pivot and more (and potentially physically) a wall. Speed Boost increases its ability to wreck sweepers that would otherwise have killed or pivoted out with Glare, thereby also crippling its match up pool. Regenerator while the most desirable to Malaconda's concept and viability completely outclasses all but the most gimmick sets of Harvest and makes it so irrelevant that there's not even a niche in running it. And none of these abilities helps it kill specifically what it's meant to kill. Any that help are blanket solutions. Grassy Surge is not a blanket solution, it's actually a very specific viability that helps Malaconda destroy what it was meant to destroy while not touching its speed or defensive stats. Why is it then that Grassy Surge is not allowed in discussion when the other abilities are?

2. Terrain and Weather abilities are objectively different because of their capacity to affect everyone:

Okay, so this is certainly true in the most technical. No denying it. However in the practical, this doesn't result in any difference. The abilities were slated to Secondary Ability Ban (i.e. to be a Primary Ability) just like the others. The argument is that because they're field-augmenting abilities they're somehow more banned, thereby creating tiers of bannedness where Terrain and Weather abilities are 1A Secondary Ability Banned and the rest are all 1B Secondary Ability Banned. This argument is attempting to say that the difference between the two categories are apples and oranges and you can't objectively compare them. Except by the notion that they're both Secondary Ability Banned they are in fact quantifiably equal. Once you start parsing them there is endless justification parse into even smaller categories until every niche ability effect is tiered. This is patently ad absurdum ad infinitum. The abilities are either primed to be Primary Abilities or they're not.

3. Grassy Surge would warp Malaconda's role:

That's simply not true. I had put forth the calculations to show it, but despite the field advantage which also happens to apply for the opponent's Pokemon as well (1/16th healing and resistance to Earthquake/Bulldoze), the ability neither warps Malaconda's role or its concept. Its concept is to counter rain teams and Grassy Surge fits that identity perfectly, and in Malaconda's case competitively too. Its role is to be a check to Water/Ground/Electric and due to the effects of Grassy Surge, it is capable of that. Grassy Surge powers up Power Whip by 50% allowing it more capable power when the terrain is Grassy to 2/OHKO common Water/Rain team Pokemon it was designed to counter against. It would even be capable of hitting Pelipper for a 2KHO which fits its MO of being a Rain check. The defensive capacity of Grassy Surge reduces Earthquake and Bulldoze which while not much of an issue for Malaconda, helps Fire and Grass/Poison type (common team members in a Sun team). How does this alter either Malaconda's role or its conceptual identity? It doesn't, really. You can't opt to build around Malaconda because unlike Psychic Surge (which negates priority), Electric Surge (which prevents Sleep), or Misty Surge (which gives instant Safeguard) Grassy Surge only gives the equivalent of Leftovers recovery to everything. And unlike Drought or Drizzle, there are no Terrain abilities outside of Grass Pelt. It is such a minute field advantage for non-Grass type who do not get the stab power up that it's not possible to build around unless you're playing CAP Monotype.

In conclusion, there is realistically no reason not to include Grassy Surge in the potential for slating no different than any other ability being proposed, because Malaconda has been deemed necessary to allow discussion on Secondary Ability Banned abilities, and Grassy Surge falls under that header. Nor does Grassy Surge warp its role or identity, unlike Speed Boost or Stamina. For CAP staff, I would ask that you indulge my post and not dismiss it, because the logic is there to support the allowance of Grassy Surge as a potential option for Malaconda who is in the unique position due to its concept to receive a Terrain ability.

TL;DR: Grassy Surge fits Malaconda conceptually and competitively and is in the same realm of discussion as everything else.
 

Deck Knight

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Manaphy I don't so much care about as it's type weak and Mala has absurd SpD with or without Filter.

Zard-Y doesn't really "lose" so much as get crippled by Glare. Mala has no means to actually defeat Zard-Y, and since Zard-Y brings out Sun the fact Mala isn't forced out is in some ways a good thing.

Your calcs also show on Magearna a Twinkle Tackle followed by a Fleur Cannon KOs. So really Malaconda is a threat to most of these only in the neutral position. The question is, why would you send in special attackers to counter Conda when it has insane special bulk. It's kind of like sending in Specs Infernape into Chansey on the basis Focus Blast is super-effective.

These mons can pressure Conda, Conda can't really switch in on them (bar again Manaphy which Conda should beat bar running Signal Beam), but they don't necessarily want to 1v1 Conda since it can cripple them from sweeping.

EDIT: What if there were a Pokemon bulky enough to Wall Tapu Lele's popular Scarf set completely, change the terrain, and competently Pursuit Trap it. This Pokemon could also switch into Tapu Fini, change its terrain, paralyze it so it can't Taunt effectively, or beat it outright?

That's Grassy Surge Malaconda.

If you're arguing weakening freaking Earthquake in CAP isn't meta relevant support , that basically double leftovers isn't relevant support, it's pretty obvious you don't play.

As I said before, Grassy Surge is for both reasons CAP Staff have concluded on Surge abilities and the general scope of this update (a minor update) out of bounds. Everyone else seems to be able to respect that, why the guy who clearly doesn't know the meta can't defies charitable explanation.
 
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Drapionswing

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Manaphy I don't so much care about as it's type weak and Mala has absurd SpD with or without Filter.

Zard-Y doesn't really "lose" so much as get crippled by Glare. Mala has no means to actually defeat Zard-Y, and since Zard-Y brings out Sun the fact Mala isn't forced out is in some ways a good thing.

Your calcs also show on Magearna a Twinkle Tackle followed by a Fleur Cannon KOs. So really Malaconda is a threat to most of these only in the neutral position. The question is, why would you send in special attackers to counter Conda when it has insane special bulk. It's kind of like sending in Specs Infernape into Chansey on the basis Focus Blast is super-effective.

These mons can pressure Conda, Conda can't really switch in on them (bar again Manaphy which Conda should beat bar running Signal Beam), but they don't necessarily want to 1v1 Conda since it can cripple them from sweeping.
+6 252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Malaconda: 392-462 (90.3 - 106.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 260-308 (76 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Manaphy beats malaconda 1v1 currently your statement is incorrect.

Ok firstly all these pokemon beat malaconda with ease without filter the matchups are DEFINITELY affected, Zard-Y just can't beat malaconda straight up because of the sun. As for Magearna, what do you mean Fairium Z into Fleur Cannon kills? If you see a magearna the first thing you should be doing is clicking synthesis so magearna can not beat Malaconda and can't set up on it any more.

Filter Conda is going to remove a VAST amount of it's weaknesses on the special side as common special attackers in the metagame can't come in to force it out as a healthy conda can freely click glare and now reliably heal off any damage done. Those Calcs I posted just show a bunch of scenarios that allow Conda to get off a virtually free spin or free status.

While your Chansey comparison is true, Malaconda can not do ANY of the things that filter is going to allow it to do and the potential that Filter has is going to be big enough if you're comparing it's bulk to chansey(Filter bulk is around 11-14% weaker than Chansey's bulk on super effective hits). The fact that Filter is giving it freedom versus Super Effective hits which would actually pressure regular Malaconda is a sign we shouldn't do this. Filter allows it to overcome Pokemon that SHOULD beat it and at a quick glance it's threat discussion shows Fire-Types to be a threat Scarf Volkraken, Charizard-Mega-Y, Volcarona are barely even threats to malaconda anymore with Filter.
 

Deck Knight

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Fair point Drapionswing, I'm not the UL or GL for the thread, but Filter probably is a bit too much for Mala who is an oddity by being both the CAP with the lowest overall BST and Speed but the highest overall Special Bulk of all the CAPs.

To be perfectly honest with you, although I argued Speed Boost earlier and it got shot down I still think Mala can be entirely addressed by moves. People are underselling Harvest's capabilities. They're also underselling Malaconda's physical bulk. 115 / 60 is a little better than Excadrill, a Pokemon that doesn't get OHKO'd by much and barely invested defensively anyway.

Stamina and Filter are a bit too much for something like Mala which can abuse it well. The difficulty as always is finding a good middle ground. I'm honestly starting to like Chlorophyll as an ability that gives Malaconda a reason to run Sunny Day (or be used with Zard-Y or Ninetales/Torkoal), and changes up its set structure a little. Chlorophyll Mala would likely run 248 HP / 136 Atk / 4 SpD / 120 Spe (176 Spe so it could outrun Base 110s in sunlight. You could sacrifice bulk to be even faster but I think that or outrunning Mega Crucibelle is the equlibrium point since it lets Mala get the drop on Keldeo and friends as well as hit Kitsunoh with Dark STAB before a Wisp.
 
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reachzero

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Ok firstly all these pokemon beat malaconda with ease without filter the matchups are DEFINITELY affected..

Filter Conda is going to remove a VAST amount of it's weaknesses on the special side as common special attackers in the metagame can't come in to force it out as a healthy conda can freely click glare and now reliably heal off any damage done. Those Calcs I posted just show a bunch of scenarios that allow Conda to get off a virtually free spin or free status.

While your Chansey comparison is true, Malaconda can not do ANY of the things that filter is going to allow it to do and the potential that Filter has is going to be big enough if you're comparing it's bulk to chansey(Filter bulk is around 11-14% weaker than Chansey's bulk on super effective hits). The fact that Filter is giving it freedom versus Super Effective hits which would actually pressure regular Malaconda is a sign we shouldn't do this. Filter allows it to overcome Pokemon that SHOULD beat it and at a quick glance it's threat discussion shows Fire-Types to be a threat Scarf Volkraken, Charizard-Mega-Y, Volcarona are barely even threats to malaconda anymore with Filter.
What you are arguing here is actually a really good argument in favor of Filter. If you don't want Malaconda taking Ice Beams etc. why give it Filter to begin with? Moreover Synthesis has 8 PP, so it's not like Malaconda would be an unbreakable wall, even with Filter. Filter isn't my cup of tea when it comes to this update, but the effectiveness of it is the reason it is even being brought up. If Malaconda still loses to all the same things it loses to pre-update, why even suggest it? I'm not so sure that Filter would let it beat things like Pyroak, Tomohawk, Mega Scizor, Heatran or Skarmory, so I don't see why we would be worried...
 
While malaconda may be able to take super effective hits better, is that really such a bad thing to have?

252 SpA Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Malaconda: 222-264 (51.1 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 166-198 (38.2 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

While that tankiness may seem like a lot, your going to be too reliant on synthesis. The first non filter calc has its hp back to basically 90% because of sitrus and then glares that squid. Filter does the same thing but instead, you're left with 60% of your health and have to synthesis it back up (only 8pp)

With filter you can be able to cripple a check or two, but harvest with sitrus allows you to body a lot of special attackers like koko(w/o turn) and pyroak and either pivot away or power whip them to death.
 

snake

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Fair point Drapionswing, I'm not the UL or GL for the thread, but Filter probably is a bit too much for Mala who is an oddity by being both the CAP with the lowest overall BST and Speed but the highest overall Special Bulk of all the CAPs.

To be perfectly honest with you, although I argued Speed Boost earlier and it got shot down I still think Mala can be entirely addressed by moves. People are underselling Harvest's capabilities. They're also underselling Malaconda's physical bulk. 115 / 60 is a little better than Excadrill, a Pokemon that doesn't get OHKO'd by much and barely invested defensively anyway.

Stamina and Filter are a bit too much for something like Mala which can abuse it well. The difficulty as always is finding a good middle ground. I'm honestly starting to like Chlorophyll as an ability that gives Malaconda a reason to run Sunny Day (or be used with Zard-Y or Ninetales/Torkoal), and changes up its set structure a little. Chlorophyll Mala would likely run 248 HP / 136 Atk / 4 SpD / 120 Spe (176 Spe so it could outrun Base 110s in sunlight. You could sacrifice bulk to be even faster but I think that's the equlibrium point since it lets Mala get the drop on Keldeo and friends as well as hit Kitsunoh with Dark STAB before a Wisp.
I'm starting to agree with DK here. No ability discussed so far has screamed "yeah this is what we want" to me. Filter has probably come the closest, but I think there are a few movepool additions that could address Malaconda's issues without giving a super great Hidden Ability. While Malaconda does have a few problems with 4MSS, at this point I'd rather undershoot Malaconda's update than overshoot, and Hidden Abilities introduce the risk of overshooting, especially since even now we still really haven't found a Hidden Ability on which a good portion of the community agrees that would be a good for Malaconda. Also, adding a Hidden Ability just because we think we have to in order to improve Malaconda's viability limits what new moves we can add to Malaconda's movepool, where I think Malaconda could definitely use improvements moreso than its ability. I can't be specific about what moves now, but if Harvest doesn't work well on its own now, moves that support Harvest might be good to look at.
 

HeaLnDeaL

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I disagree with the above post and pretty much completely agree with reach's earlier post (minus the part where he called harvest a good ability).

Moves cannot and will not save Malaconda unless we go absolutely crazy, which isn't going to happen (coil). The only place to buff Malaconda is its ability. We can choose not to give it a good ability, but the moment we do then we are sealing Malaconda's fate as being largely unusable. Its a valid choice, but we need to be fully aware of the consequences when we make it. The alternative is giving a useful ability that supplements its role (without making it a behemoth), and realistically Regenerator and Drought do the best jobs at this. In my earlier posts I already explained how I view Malaconda's role to be a special pivot because its typing does not give it the staying power to be a true wall and I think this synergizes well with Regenerator. Drought, on the other hand, is much more open to team support which compliments its supporting capabilities with the move Glare (realistically Glare is the only reason why anyone would even consider putting Malaconda on a team).
 

Deck Knight

Blast Off At The Speed Of Light! That's Right!
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Rather than rehash more of the same arguments or dispute anything above, I'd like to step back and compare Malaconda to 5th Gen Pyroak. In 5th Gen the meta wasn't that kind to Pyroak because the Latis were quite dominant. Malaconda's invention helped to fill a void as it was a great counter for them.

Now Fairies and other shifts have made Pyroak much more desirable, while Malaconda still utterly walls the things it countered before.

With that in mind I'd like to offer a power chart of where these abilities have bewn at and see if we can come to a resolution about them:

Powerful, potentially role changing:
Drought
Stamina
Regenerator
Rough Skin

Filter
Harvest - - - YOU ARE HERE
Sap Sipper
Chlorophyll

Strong Jaw
Scrappy
Infiltrator - - - THIS EXISTS
Minor, niche use.

I think the abilities above Harvest go a bit too far, Filter is on the cusp. One final ability I'd like to entertain is Scrappy.

Obviously the reason is Scrappy Rapid Spin (although Mala getting Fighting coverage to hit Kit and Mega Sable wouldn't be horrible either.), and you might say Mala can already beat most Spin Blockers, but Scrappy lets its Spin even if they come in just for the quick block and try to capitalize on Malaconda's low speed for a Wisp.
 
Apologies, that wasn't my intention to misrepresent. I've used those, because they are all powerful, legitimate options that you'd often find within the teams, so wanted to use those to say it's not as though it is without a wide number of counters.

The general issue I see is that Malaconda really, really suffers against things with the ability to pivot out, courtesy of its awful typing. Anything with the ability to run U-Turn hurts it, which means that Malaconda has little ability to switch into attacks with its special bulk if they have a chance of running U-Turn, because they will either cripple it, and give a free switch into a more dangerous counter or something that resists Malaconda. It has no offensive pressure really, and currently, and unfortunately, resides at the bottom of the pecking order, and would be in CAP-UU if there were such a thing.

The main compromise behind Malaconda having Stamina is that it loses out on having Harvest. I don't think it's a poor ability, exactly the opposite, and think it's completely fine, but loses attractiveness with which it can swap into attacks, or perform its role as a so-called Defensive Pivot, as all it does is give an opponent a free switch. It cannot really capitalise on that. Look at the viability, and there's a distinct lack of slow, physically weak mons which suffer to Grass/Dark, and another distinct lack of those who are also going to allow such a mon to switch in and threaten Malaconda - at best, it can stop a Special Sweep from MegaZam, but I don't think a MegaZam is going to commit to a sweep while Mala is still up and about.

With Stamina, you lack the ability to reliably heal damage as much (Harvest+ChestoResto), and cannot absorb status as much - you have to give up two Move Slots to be able to fulfil the same ability to sustain that Chesto-Resto provides (Synthesis+Aromatherapy, or Rest+Recycle), and both of those take an action. Toxic, and Burns especially, as well as other chip damage becomes a very legitimate answer behind a mon which tries to abuse defense boosts, and even with only 8PP, something like Zapdos could come in an take advantage of, to not only PP stall it with Heat Wave (~28.1-33.1% damage vs 0+ SpD Malaconda).

The thing with Stamina also, is that predicted correctly, you can still take advantage of that weak base stat. Stamina only works if it doesn't get the kill initially. This means that someone wanting to abuse Stamina is going to have to choose the perfect moment of when to put it into play - such as up against a Skill-link abuser getting a bit too cocky, or when a Tank is throwing out Scalds to fish for burns. Getting that moment right is not only going to be a matter of better play for the user, but also for their opponent.

Alternatively, they are going to be taking full strength attacks, and being forced to spam their Synthesis - which opens up the space for a Set Up Sweeper to fill the gap.

It does give it more luxury with item choice - Weakness Policy, Leftovers, Red Card, Ganlon/Kee/Maranga Berry to help boost its defence, or a Salac for Speed - or a Rocky Helmet, even. They don't have to run either Sitrus or Chesto any more.

So; Counters and Checks
- Guts Colossoil, Buzzwole, especially Banded, Charizard-X, Cawmadore, Mimikyu, Physical Syclant, Bulky SD Mega Scizor being able to take on a +4Life Orb Tomohawk can flat out kill it, even Tomohawk against its special defense
- Hazers and Phasers; Defensive Tomohawk, Skarmory, Toxapex, Cyclohm and Pyroak completely invalidate its ability to protect themselves through stat boosts
- Chip Damage; Toxic Stallers (Toxapex, who can also Haze away also);
- Weathersetters, in particular Sandsetters; goes a little bit into the above a Banded Tyranitar or Mega Tyranitar can come in and Super Power, while hurting any ability it has to heal with both Chip and reduced Synthesis (net loss off 30 healing (80% if there was sun up). Even Pelipper, who can switch into a Power Whip, and 100% Accuracy Hurricane while Synthesis is reduced in effect.
- Set Up Sweepers - while this is a very generic group, Power Up Punch keeps in line with the defensive boost, while Swords Dance or Dragon Dance allow you to keep ahead of Malaconda's defense increases.
- Strong Special Attackers - with the exception of things like the Lati's and MegaZam, most things should be able to take a hit
- Unaware - Arghonaut is a big one for this.
- Pyukumuku - Can at least trade like for like; Counter deals a minimum 316 damage to Malaconda, and then the next Power Whip will kill, doing a further minimum 126+Leftovers damage; Mala's max HP is 434, total minimum damage is 442.


Possible Teammates
- Kerfluffle - Parting Shot gives it an easier switch in
- Tapu Bulu - Grassy Surge Healing
- Neturna - Sticky Webbing

Moves that have been mentioned or considered (even possible future moves)
- Power Whip, Knock Off, Synthesis/Rest, Aromatherapy, U-Turn, Glare, Substitute, Rapid Spin; Sunny Day, also later considered moves like Power Trip, Coil, Recycle, Parting Shot

4MSS strikes again, I think.

Maths below is keeping Careful Nature, but uses 252HP/4 Atk/252 Def for maths.
vs Marowak-A
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 92-110 (21.1 - 25.3%) -- approx. 0% chance to 4HKO
+2 252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 186-218 (42.8 - 50.2%) -- approx. 0.4% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Fire Punch vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 210-248 (48.3 - 57.1%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Fire Punch vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 420-494 (96.7 - 113.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Marowak-Alola Fire Punch vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 104-126 (23.9 - 29%) -- 98.5% chance to 4HKO
+2 252+ Atk Marowak-Alola Fire Punch vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 210-248 (48.3 - 57.1%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 336-396 (77.4 - 91.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 668-788 (153.9 - 181.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 168-200 (38.7 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 336-396 (77.4 - 91.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4 Atk Malaconda Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Marowak-Alola: 194-230 (74.3 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Malaconda Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Marowak-Alola: 132-156 (50.5 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO​
Lots of Maths for this, because Knock-Off. Essentially, Marowak-A would always win before, because Fire Punch/Flare Blitz and the speed investment would allow it to kill, but Stamina allows a switch into a Bonemerang for a +2 defence (and Bonemerang's second hit is vs +1 Def). If Mar-A has a SD up, then it outspeeds and kills with Fire Punch; Flare Blitz will likely kill it without the help of Swords Dance, but a couple of low roles and leftovers will keep it alive, allowing a Synthesis, but that means it still has the Thick Club. If it doesn't then it's going to eat a Knock Off, which will 2HKO. That said, a Flare Blitz Mar-A would typically be outsped, and would need 152 Spe to get the drop, which gives a rather meh array of 104 HP/252 Atk/152 Spe.​

vs Tyranitar Mega
+1 252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Superpower vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 252-298 (58 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Superpower vs. +3 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 136-160 (31.3 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage

4 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 182-216 (53.3 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Malaconda Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 25-30 (7.3 - 8.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever​

vs Tyranitar
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Superpower vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 238-282 (54.8 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Superpower vs. +3 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 128-152 (29.4 - 35%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage
(96.7 Min, after 2 Turns of sand, Mutual Kill); Switching into +2 Mala, +2, doesn't Knock Off

252+ Atk Tyranitar Superpower vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 158-188 (36.4 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage
-1 252+ Atk Tyranitar Superpower vs. +3 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 86-102 (19.8 - 23.5%) -- 98.3% chance to 4HKO after sandstorm damage
-2 252+ Atk Tyranitar Superpower vs. +4 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 54-64 (12.4 - 14.7%) -- guaranteed 6HKO after sandstorm damage
(87.35 Min, 100.25 Max, after 3 Turns of sand; Malaconda wins, on average would survive the Sandstorm); Switching into +2 Mala, using Knock Off

252+ Atk Tyranitar Superpower vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 212-250 (48.8 - 57.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
-1 252+ Atk Tyranitar Superpower vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 106-126 (24.4 - 29%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after sandstorm damage
(85.7 Min, 99.1 Max, after 2 Turns of sand; 40% Chance Mutual Kill); Switching into +2 Mala, using Knock Off

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 316-374 (72.8 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
-2 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Superpower vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 158-188 (36.4 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage
-2 252+ Atk Tyranitar Superpower vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 106-126 (24.4 - 29%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after sandstorm damage
(103.45 Min, after 1 Turn of sand; TTar wins); Mala switching into -1 Superpower

-2 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 238-280 (54.8 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
-3 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Superpower vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 128-152 (29.4 - 35%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage
-3 252+ Atk Tyranitar Superpower vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 86-102 (19.8 - 23.5%) -- 98.3% chance to 4HKO after sandstorm damage
-4 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Superpower vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 80-96 (18.4 - 22.1%) -- 45.9% chance to 4HKO after sandstorm damage
(105.5 Min, after 2 Turns of sand, if Mala Knock Offs 1st; TTar Wins // 96.7 after 2 turns of Sand, if Mala Power Whips first); Mala free switching into -2 Superpower

4 Atk Malaconda Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 48-57 (14 - 16.6%) -- possible 6HKO
4 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 240-284 (70.1 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-2 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 238-280 (54.8 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
-3 252+ Atk Tyranitar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 128-152 (29.4 - 35%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage​
Both forms outspeed, but both get 2HKO by Power Whip, which makes sense - physical STAB vs SE. That said, Mega TTar can swap into a Knock Off, take very little damage, and get off a Dragon Dance, eat a Whip and is 2HKO if there are no Leftovers. Standard TT is obviously less lucky - it doesn't get chance to DDance up, cannot switch into a Knock Off without sacrificing its damage, Glare without going secnod and eating 2*Whips (only 28% chance of missing at least one), and obviously a Power Whip means that it would die to the second after its first attack. Thus, Banded TTar is checked slightly by Mala. While Mala would normally have lost this one, it seems a bit rough on Mala such a defensive mon, that short of switching into Banded TTar at -2, it wouldn't be able to do anything. The way Mala wins, it would need to already be slightly set up against Banded TTar, or have a free switch while TTar is already making SP's at -2, which is not likely when confronted by a 2HKO from Power Whip.​

vs Ferrothorn, Malaconda already wins. However, if Mala isn't running Rapid Spin, that's 3 layers of spikes
4 Atk Malaconda Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 70-84 (19.8 - 23.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Malaconda Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 48-57 (13.6 - 16.1%) -- possible 7HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 66-78 (15.2 - 17.9%) -- possible 6HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 93-109 (21.4 - 25.1%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO​
Currently, Malaconda deals ~15.3% damage/turn, but Ferrothorn deals 16.5% in raw damage AND a further 12.5% in Iron Barbs; It takes 7 attacks to kill Ferrothorn, so the damage looks a bit like (no Berry/Residual healing); Maths is going to be slightly off, but mostly correct, working from averages.

Turn 1; Ferro HP (78.2%) // Mala (71%)
Turn 2; Ferro HP (62.9%) // Mala (42%)
Turn 3; Ferro HP (47.6%) // Mala (13%)
Turn 4; Ferro HP (47.6%) // Mala (46.5%) Synthesis
Turn 5; Ferro HP (32.3%) // Mala (17.5%)
Turn 6; Ferro HP (32.3%) // Mala (41%) Synthesis
Turn 7; Ferro HP (17%) // Mala (12%)
Turn 8; Ferro HP (17%) // Mala (43.5%) Synthesis; Past here, it's struggle cuddle time


The difference with Stamina is that Mala takes steadily less each round, but provided Mala has at least 4 Synthesis left, it would win. Using the current "special wall" which relies on Harvest, without Perma-sun, and obviously lower Defense, Mala would suffer a bit more (taking an additional 7% of damage a turn, which could see him dead from the high rolls on Turn 3. A set using Synthesis however could obviously outstall, and having sun up for some of the time would make it even more worthwhile for Mala The danger with the Stamina case is that Ferrothorn just keeps stacking defensive buffs, and should instead just throw out as many spikes as possible before forcing a switch.​
vs Pelipper
4 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 196+ Def Pelipper: 99-117 (30.6 - 36.2%) -- 46.9% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Pelipper Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Malaconda: 168-198 (38.7 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0- Atk Pelipper U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 156-188 (35.9 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0- Atk Pelipper U-turn vs. +2 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 80-96 (18.4 - 22.1%) -- possible 5HKO​

As you can see, not only can Pelipper 3HKO with 100% Accurate Hurricane, outspeeding Malaconda, but has a decent chance of surviving being 3HKO'd, but the rain prevents proper healing - only 25%, so Synthesis cannot be spammed as much as it would want.

vs Weavile
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 187-221 (43 - 50.9%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. +3 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 151-179 (34.7 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 184-217 (65.4 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This may seem obvious, but just wanted to say the Weavile can still revenge kill a +2, with a minimum 77.7 against a stacked up Malaconda, especially so if there's Hail available up, and you can come in with Pressure.

vs Gyrados
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 438-516 (100.9 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 368-434 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+1 164 Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 408-482 (94 - 111%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
-1 4 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 105-124 (29.7 - 35.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery​

After a moxie boost, Bounce is a OHKO, while a Z-Bounce can revenge kill. On a bulkier Sub DD set, Bounce has a 5/8 chance of gibbing Mala, while a +2 can OHKO

vs Hoopa-U
252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Gunk Shot vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 328-388 (75.5 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Gunk Shot vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 248-292 (57.1 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Drain Punch vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 206-244 (47.4 - 56.2%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Drain Punch vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 156-184 (35.9 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Drain Punch vs. +3 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 124-148 (28.5 - 34.1%) -- 1.8% chance to 3HKO

4 Atk Malaconda U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 308-364 (102.3 - 120.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 196-232 (65.1 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As you can see, a Malaconda can take a hit from Hoopa-U and U-Turn kill - but given 4MSS, it would have to be a dedicated Hoopa U/Malaconda killer, and as stated above, there are certainly better options. Buzzwole, for one.

vs Tapu Bulu
+1 252 Atk Tapu Bulu Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 422-498 (97.2 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Tapu Bulu Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 282-334 (64.9 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252 Atk Tapu Bulu Superpower vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 190-224 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252 Atk Tapu Bulu Superpower vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 142-168 (32.7 - 38.7%) -- 4.5% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252 Atk Tapu Bulu Superpower vs. +3 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 114-136 (26.2 - 31.3%) -- 11% chance to 4HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery​

4 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu in Grassy Terrain: 86-102 (30.6 - 36.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery​

It takes a +4 or better Malaconda to be able to resist Bulu, and Bulu has SD; it doesn't need to attack even, although that leaves it potential Glare bait.

vs Dragonite
252+ Atk Dragonite Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 692-816 (159.4 - 188%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 462-546 (106.4 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 348-410 (80.1 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. +3 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 278-330 (64 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 198-234 (45.6 - 53.9%) -- 44.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 134-158 (30.8 - 36.4%) -- 57.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 100-118 (23 - 27.1%) -- 49.8% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs. +3 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 80-96 (18.4 - 22.1%) -- possible 5HKO

4 Atk Malaconda Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 37-44 (11.4 - 13.6%) -- possible 8HKO
4 Atk Malaconda Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 75-88 (23.2 - 27.2%) -- 55.9% chance to 4HKO​

Dnite pretty much has this in the bag. It's a 5HKO.

vs Mamoswine
4 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 312-368 (86.4 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
240 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 390-460 (89.8 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
240 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 260-307 (59.9 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
240 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 198-234 (45.6 - 53.9%) -- 37.9% chance to 2HKO

240 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 541-640 (124.6 - 147.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO​

With the current set up, it would be a OHKO, but with a more defensive Mala at +0, Mamo would have a slightly lesser chance to OHKO in return. However, with a +1 up, Mala would resist it have a chance to OHKO, but get killed by the second attack. It's not until +3 when it becomes a bit off for Mamoswine, when it cannot flat 2HKO.

vs Arghonaut
4 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 270-320 (65.2 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 182-216 (43.9 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ Atk Unaware Arghonaut Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 390-458 (89.8 - 105.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Unaware Arghonaut Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 412-486 (94.9 - 111.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO​
It don't matter how tough ye be, Pirate Squid will have ye guts for garters.


If you can think of any other close cases, I'll happily run the maths on it.
 
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Apologies, that wasn't my intention to misrepresent. I've used those, because they are all powerful, legitimate options that you'd often find within the teams, so wanted to use those to say it's not as though it is without a wide number of counters.

The general issue I see is that Malaconda really, really suffers against things with the ability to pivot out, courtesy of its awful typing. Anything with the ability to run U-Turn hurts it, which means that Malaconda has little ability to switch into attacks with its special bulk if they have a chance of running U-Turn, because they will either cripple it, and give a free switch into a more dangerous counter or something that resists Malaconda. It has no offensive pressure really, and currently, and unfortunately, resides at the bottom of the pecking order, and would be in CAP-UU if there were such a thing.

The main compromise behind Malaconda having Stamina is that it loses out on having Harvest. I don't think it's a poor ability, exactly the opposite, and think it's completely fine, but loses attractiveness with which it can swap into attacks, or perform its role as a so-called Defensive Pivot, as all it does is give an opponent a free switch. It cannot really capitalise on that. Look at the viability, and there's a distinct lack of slow, physically weak mons which suffer to Grass/Dark, and another distinct lack of those who are also going to allow such a mon to switch in and threaten Malaconda - at best, it can stop a Special Sweep from MegaZam, but I don't think a MegaZam is going to commit to a sweep while Mala is still up and about.

With Stamina, you lack the ability to reliably heal damage as much (Harvest+ChestoResto), and cannot absorb status as much - you have to give up two Move Slots to be able to fulfil the same ability to sustain that Chesto-Resto provides (Synthesis+Aromatherapy, or Rest+Recycle), and both of those take an action. Toxic, and Burns especially, as well as other chip damage becomes a very legitimate answer behind a mon which tries to abuse defense boosts, and even with only 8PP, something like Zapdos could come in an take advantage of, to not only PP stall it with Heat Wave (~28.1-33.1% damage vs 0+ SpD Malaconda).

The thing with Stamina also, is that predicted correctly, you can still take advantage of that weak base stat. Stamina only works if it doesn't get the kill initially. This means that someone wanting to abuse Stamina is going to have to choose the perfect moment of when to put it into play - such as up against a Skill-link abuser getting a bit too cocky, or when a Tank is throwing out Scalds to fish for burns. Getting that moment right is not only going to be a matter of better play for the user, but also for their opponent.

Alternatively, they are going to be taking full strength attacks, and being forced to spam their Synthesis - which opens up the space for a Set Up Sweeper to fill the gap.

It does give it more luxury with item choice - Weakness Policy, Leftovers, Red Card, Ganlon/Kee/Maranga Berry to help boost its defence, or a Salac for Speed - or a Rocky Helmet, even. They don't have to run either Sitrus or Chesto any more.

So; Counters and Checks
- Guts Colossoil, Buzzwole, especially Banded, Charizard-X, Cawmadore, Mimikyu, Physical Syclant, Bulky SD Mega Scizor being able to take on a +4Life Orb Tomohawk can flat out kill it, even Tomohawk against its special defense
- Hazers and Phasers; Defensive Tomohawk, Skarmory, Toxapex, Cyclohm and Pyroak completely invalidate its ability to protect themselves through stat boosts
- Chip Damage; Toxic Stallers (Toxapex, who can also Haze away also);
- Weathersetters, in particular Sandsetters; goes a little bit into the above a Banded Tyranitar or Mega Tyranitar can come in and Super Power, while hurting any ability it has to heal with both Chip and reduced Synthesis (net loss off 30 healing (80% if there was sun up). Even Pelipper, who can switch into a Power Whip, and 100% Accuracy Hurricane while Synthesis is reduced in effect.
- Set Up Sweepers - while this is a very generic group, Power Up Punch keeps in line with the defensive boost, while Swords Dance or Dragon Dance allow you to keep ahead of Malaconda's defense increases.
- Strong Special Attackers - with the exception of things like the Lati's and MegaZam, most things should be able to take a hit
- Unaware - Arghonaut is a big one for this.
- Pyukumuku - Can at least trade like for like; Counter deals a minimum 316 damage to Malaconda, and then the next Power Whip will kill, doing a further minimum 126+Leftovers damage; Mala's max HP is 434, total minimum damage is 442.


Possible Teammates
- Kerfluffle - Parting Shot gives it an easier switch in
- Tapu Bulu - Grassy Surge Healing
- Neturna - Sticky Webbing

Moves that have been mentioned or considered (even possible future moves)
- Power Whip, Knock Off, Synthesis/Rest, Aromatherapy, U-Turn, Glare, Substitute, Rapid Spin; Sunny Day, also later considered moves like Power Trip, Coil, Recycle, Parting Shot

4MSS strikes again, I think.

Maths below is keeping Careful Nature, but uses 252HP/4 Atk/252 Def for maths.
vs Marowak-A
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 92-110 (21.1 - 25.3%) -- approx. 0% chance to 4HKO
+2 252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 186-218 (42.8 - 50.2%) -- approx. 0.4% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Fire Punch vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 210-248 (48.3 - 57.1%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Fire Punch vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 420-494 (96.7 - 113.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Marowak-Alola Fire Punch vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 104-126 (23.9 - 29%) -- 98.5% chance to 4HKO
+2 252+ Atk Marowak-Alola Fire Punch vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 210-248 (48.3 - 57.1%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 336-396 (77.4 - 91.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 668-788 (153.9 - 181.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 168-200 (38.7 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 336-396 (77.4 - 91.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4 Atk Malaconda Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Marowak-Alola: 194-230 (74.3 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Malaconda Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Marowak-Alola: 132-156 (50.5 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO​
Lots of Maths for this, because Knock-Off. Essentially, Marowak-A would always win before, because Fire Punch/Flare Blitz and the speed investment would allow it to kill, but Stamina allows a switch into a Bonemerang for a +2 defence (and Bonemerang's second hit is vs +1 Def). If Mar-A has a SD up, then it outspeeds and kills with Fire Punch; Flare Blitz will likely kill it without the help of Swords Dance, but a couple of low roles and leftovers will keep it alive, allowing a Synthesis, but that means it still has the Thick Club. If it doesn't then it's going to eat a Knock Off, which will 2HKO. That said, a Flare Blitz Mar-A would typically be outsped, and would need 152 Spe to get the drop, which gives a rather meh array of 104 HP/252 Atk/152 Spe.​

vs Tyranitar Mega
+1 252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Superpower vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 252-298 (58 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Superpower vs. +3 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 136-160 (31.3 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage

4 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 182-216 (53.3 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Malaconda Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 25-30 (7.3 - 8.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever​

vs Tyranitar
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Superpower vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 238-282 (54.8 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Superpower vs. +3 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 128-152 (29.4 - 35%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage
(96.7 Min, after 2 Turns of sand, Mutual Kill); Switching into +2 Mala, +2, doesn't Knock Off

252+ Atk Tyranitar Superpower vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 158-188 (36.4 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage
-1 252+ Atk Tyranitar Superpower vs. +3 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 86-102 (19.8 - 23.5%) -- 98.3% chance to 4HKO after sandstorm damage
-2 252+ Atk Tyranitar Superpower vs. +4 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 54-64 (12.4 - 14.7%) -- guaranteed 6HKO after sandstorm damage
(87.35 Min, 100.25 Max, after 3 Turns of sand; Malaconda wins, on average would survive the Sandstorm); Switching into +2 Mala, using Knock Off

252+ Atk Tyranitar Superpower vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 212-250 (48.8 - 57.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
-1 252+ Atk Tyranitar Superpower vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 106-126 (24.4 - 29%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after sandstorm damage
(85.7 Min, 99.1 Max, after 2 Turns of sand; 40% Chance Mutual Kill); Switching into +2 Mala, using Knock Off

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 316-374 (72.8 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
-2 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Superpower vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 158-188 (36.4 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage
-2 252+ Atk Tyranitar Superpower vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 106-126 (24.4 - 29%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after sandstorm damage
(103.45 Min, after 1 Turn of sand; TTar wins); Mala switching into -1 Superpower

-2 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 238-280 (54.8 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
-3 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Superpower vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 128-152 (29.4 - 35%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage
-3 252+ Atk Tyranitar Superpower vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 86-102 (19.8 - 23.5%) -- 98.3% chance to 4HKO after sandstorm damage
-4 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Superpower vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 80-96 (18.4 - 22.1%) -- 45.9% chance to 4HKO after sandstorm damage
(105.5 Min, after 2 Turns of sand, if Mala Knock Offs 1st; TTar Wins // 96.7 after 2 turns of Sand, if Mala Power Whips first); Mala free switching into -2 Superpower

4 Atk Malaconda Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 48-57 (14 - 16.6%) -- possible 6HKO
4 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 240-284 (70.1 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-2 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 238-280 (54.8 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
-3 252+ Atk Tyranitar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 128-152 (29.4 - 35%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage​
Both forms outspeed, but both get 2HKO by Power Whip, which makes sense - physical STAB vs SE. That said, Mega TTar can swap into a Knock Off, take very little damage, and get off a Dragon Dance, eat a Whip and is 2HKO if there are no Leftovers. Standard TT is obviously less lucky - it doesn't get chance to DDance up, cannot switch into a Knock Off without sacrificing its damage, Glare without going secnod and eating 2*Whips (only 28% chance of missing at least one), and obviously a Power Whip means that it would die to the second after its first attack. Thus, Banded TTar is checked slightly by Mala. While Mala would normally have lost this one, it seems a bit rough on Mala such a defensive mon, that short of switching into Banded TTar at -2, it wouldn't be able to do anything. The way Mala wins, it would need to already be slightly set up against Banded TTar, or have a free switch while TTar is already making SP's at -2, which is not likely when confronted by a 2HKO from Power Whip.​

vs Ferrothorn, Malaconda already wins. However, if Mala isn't running Rapid Spin, that's 3 layers of spikes
4 Atk Malaconda Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 70-84 (19.8 - 23.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Malaconda Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 48-57 (13.6 - 16.1%) -- possible 7HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 66-78 (15.2 - 17.9%) -- possible 6HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 93-109 (21.4 - 25.1%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO​
Currently, Malaconda deals ~15.3% damage/turn, but Ferrothorn deals 16.5% in raw damage AND a further 12.5% in Iron Barbs; It takes 7 attacks to kill Ferrothorn, so the damage looks a bit like (no Berry/Residual healing); Maths is going to be slightly off, but mostly correct, working from averages.

Turn 1; Ferro HP (78.2%) // Mala (71%)
Turn 2; Ferro HP (62.9%) // Mala (42%)
Turn 3; Ferro HP (47.6%) // Mala (13%)
Turn 4; Ferro HP (47.6%) // Mala (46.5%) Synthesis
Turn 5; Ferro HP (32.3%) // Mala (17.5%)
Turn 6; Ferro HP (32.3%) // Mala (41%) Synthesis
Turn 7; Ferro HP (17%) // Mala (12%)
Turn 8; Ferro HP (17%) // Mala (43.5%) Synthesis; Past here, it's struggle cuddle time


The difference with Stamina is that Mala takes steadily less each round, but provided Mala has at least 4 Synthesis left, it would win. Using the current "special wall" which relies on Harvest, without Perma-sun, and obviously lower Defense, Mala would suffer a bit more (taking an additional 7% of damage a turn, which could see him dead from the high rolls on Turn 3. A set using Synthesis however could obviously outstall, and having sun up for some of the time would make it even more worthwhile for Mala The danger with the Stamina case is that Ferrothorn just keeps stacking defensive buffs, and should instead just throw out as many spikes as possible before forcing a switch.​
vs Pelipper
4 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 196+ Def Pelipper: 99-117 (30.6 - 36.2%) -- 46.9% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Pelipper Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Malaconda: 168-198 (38.7 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0- Atk Pelipper U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 156-188 (35.9 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0- Atk Pelipper U-turn vs. +2 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 80-96 (18.4 - 22.1%) -- possible 5HKO​

As you can see, not only can Pelipper 3HKO with 100% Accurate Hurricane, outspeeding Malaconda, but has a decent chance of surviving being 3HKO'd, but the rain prevents proper healing - only 25%, so Synthesis cannot be spammed as much as it would want.

vs Weavile
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 187-221 (43 - 50.9%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. +3 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 151-179 (34.7 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 184-217 (65.4 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This may seem obvious, but just wanted to say the Weavile can still revenge kill a +2, with a minimum 77.7 against a stacked up Malaconda, especially so if there's Hail available up, and you can come in with Pressure.

vs Gyrados
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 438-516 (100.9 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 368-434 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+1 164 Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 408-482 (94 - 111%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
-1 4 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 105-124 (29.7 - 35.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery​

After a moxie boost, Bounce is a OHKO, while a Z-Bounce can revenge kill. On a bulkier Sub DD set, Bounce has a 5/8 chance of gibbing Mala, while a +2 can OHKO

vs Hoopa-U
252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Gunk Shot vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 328-388 (75.5 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Gunk Shot vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 248-292 (57.1 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Drain Punch vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 206-244 (47.4 - 56.2%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Drain Punch vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 156-184 (35.9 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Drain Punch vs. +3 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 124-148 (28.5 - 34.1%) -- 1.8% chance to 3HKO

4 Atk Malaconda U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 308-364 (102.3 - 120.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 196-232 (65.1 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As you can see, a Malaconda can take a hit from Hoopa-U and U-Turn kill - but given 4MSS, it would have to be a dedicated Hoopa U/Malaconda killer, and as stated above, there are certainly better options. Buzzwole, for one.

vs Tapu Bulu
+1 252 Atk Tapu Bulu Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 422-498 (97.2 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Tapu Bulu Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 282-334 (64.9 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252 Atk Tapu Bulu Superpower vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 190-224 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252 Atk Tapu Bulu Superpower vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 142-168 (32.7 - 38.7%) -- 4.5% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252 Atk Tapu Bulu Superpower vs. +3 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 114-136 (26.2 - 31.3%) -- 11% chance to 4HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery​

4 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu in Grassy Terrain: 86-102 (30.6 - 36.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery​

It takes a +4 or better Malaconda to be able to resist Bulu, and Bulu has SD; it doesn't need to attack even, although that leaves it potential Glare bait.

vs Dragonite
252+ Atk Dragonite Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 692-816 (159.4 - 188%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 462-546 (106.4 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 348-410 (80.1 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. +3 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 278-330 (64 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 198-234 (45.6 - 53.9%) -- 44.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 134-158 (30.8 - 36.4%) -- 57.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 100-118 (23 - 27.1%) -- 49.8% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs. +3 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 80-96 (18.4 - 22.1%) -- possible 5HKO

4 Atk Malaconda Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 37-44 (11.4 - 13.6%) -- possible 8HKO
4 Atk Malaconda Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 75-88 (23.2 - 27.2%) -- 55.9% chance to 4HKO​

Dnite pretty much has this in the bag. It's a 5HKO.

vs Mamoswine
4 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 312-368 (86.4 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
240 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 390-460 (89.8 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
240 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 260-307 (59.9 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
240 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 198-234 (45.6 - 53.9%) -- 37.9% chance to 2HKO

240 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 541-640 (124.6 - 147.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO​

With the current set up, it would be a OHKO, but with a more defensive Mala at +0, Mamo would have a slightly lesser chance to OHKO in return. However, with a +1 up, Mala would resist it have a chance to OHKO, but get killed by the second attack. It's not until +3 when it becomes a bit off for Mamoswine, when it cannot flat 2HKO.

vs Arghonaut
4 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 270-320 (65.2 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 182-216 (43.9 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ Atk Unaware Arghonaut Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 390-458 (89.8 - 105.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Unaware Arghonaut Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 412-486 (94.9 - 111.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO​
It don't matter how tough ye be, Pirate Squid will have ye guts for garters.


If you can think of any other close cases, I'll happily run the maths on it.
Lets give it filter and call it a day already
 

cbrevan

spin, spin, spin
is a CAP Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
We've had some great discussion in this thread so far, but I think it's near time that we move on with this update and start looking at what to slate for an ability poll. As such, I'd like to reach an end to our ability discussion in a day or so, which means if you have anything else to say about any of the proposed abilities in this thread, please do so as soon as possible. Specifically, I'd like to see more calcs and specific scenarios where the abilities will have an impact. Filter has had some well reasoned damage calculations to help show the impact of the ability for specific matchups; I'd like to see something similiar with Regen, Drought, Strong Jaw, Intimidate, and other abilities that were brought up earlier.

Just to reiterate, I'd like to get a slate decided sometime Sunday and a poll up before the weekend is over, I'd like to see some specific scenarios to show how much of an impact the discussed abilities have, and I'd like to remind everyone that if they want to show support or disagreement with an option that now is the time to voice it.
 
So, as asked by cbrevan, I'm going to show the impact of some abilities other than Filter, which is my favorite one for Malaconda:

Regenerator : I think that the most revelant kind of calc for this ability is to show how bulky is AV Malaconda:

252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Malaconda: 126-150 (29 - 34.5%) -- 5.1% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Malaconda: 150-176 (34.5 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (keep in mind that Analytic isn't working here)
252 SpA Life Orb Kerfluffle Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Malaconda: 190-226 (43.7 - 52%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Plasmanta Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Malaconda: 164-195 (37.7 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Tomohawk Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Malaconda: 190-226 (43.7 - 52%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Inferno Overdrive (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Malaconda: 372-440 (85.7 - 101.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+6 252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Malaconda: 260-308 (59.9 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Malaconda: 132-156 (30.4 - 35.9%) -- 41.2% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Malaconda: 186-222 (42.8 - 51.1%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Malaconda: 192-228 (44.2 - 52.5%) -- 20.7% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Stratagem Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Malaconda: 120-143 (27.6 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
and the list goes on...

With Regenerator, AV Malaconda will probably become the best specially defensive pivot in the metagame, since it can tank at least one super effective hit, Knock Off the opponent's item which will reduce his power in most case, and then switch to come back later and healthier. However, some wallbreaker like Zard-Y, Specs Lelee and Volkraken, and bug attack users like Syclant, Aurumoth, Tapu Koko and Ash Greninja can still pass it on the special plan. As you can see, I didn't include SR damage on none of my calc, and since Malaconda is a spinner, it will often switch on them, but in this case most potential 2HKOes among those listed above become clean 2HKOes. Malaconda stays very frail on the physical plan.
I don't think that Regenerator would make Malaconda broken, but it will probably outclass Harvest in most area, unless your Malaconda is meant to stay long on the field, which can be the case of future set like Coil or SubSeed, which will maybe exist after movepool update.

Moving on to Intimidate, with a physically defensive Malaconda :

-1 252+ Atk Guts Colossoil U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Malaconda: 316-376 (72.8 - 86.6%)
-1 252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Malaconda: 300-354 (69.1 - 81.5%)
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Malaconda: 114-136 (26.2 - 31.3%)
-1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Malaconda: 106-126 (24.4 - 29%)
-1 252 Atk Salamence Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Malaconda: 386-456 (88.9 - 105%)
-1 252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Malaconda: 129-153 (29.7 - 35.2%)
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Malaconda: 300-354 (69.1 - 81.5%)
-1 252 Atk Kartana All-Out Pummeling (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Malaconda: 322-380 (74.1 - 87.5%)
-1 252 Atk Crucibelle-Mega Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Malaconda: 266-314 (61.2 - 72.3%) (U-Turn does less damage)
-1 4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Malaconda: 213-252 (49 - 58%) -- 57% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 0- Atk Greninja-Ash U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Malaconda: 164-196 (37.7 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Malaconda: 366-432 (84.3 - 99.5%)
-1 252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Malaconda: 510-600 (117.5 - 138.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Malaconda: 336-396 (77.4 - 91.2%)
...

Even though this Malaconda isn't OHKOed anymore by most U-turn user or by some powerful hits, it still takes a wide amount of damage and is 2HKOed in most case, so it means that he cannot switch on all of these threats directly, by only come when you are sure to take a single hit and cripple the opponent with Glare or to a lesser extent Knock Off. By the way, I still didn't include Sr damges and you must keep in mind that most of the physicall threats listed above are able to boost their Attack stat and proceed to a clean OHKO on Malaconda since they can bypass Intimidate. Nonetheless, Malaconda may not be as good as Lando-T as a physicall pivot, but it does a some argument. Since you have to rely on Synthesis to heal yourself, Intimidate doesn't completely overshadow Harvest I guess.

There aren't much revelant calc I can give for the sake of Drought, but I think that this ability is enough to make Sunny Day more viable as a playstyle in the CAP metagame since Malaconda provides a lot of support for it's team like Rapid Spin or U-turn, and Synthesis becomes a very good recovery move. I heard that stacking common weaknesses with other Grass type among Chlorophyll users like Venusaur or Victreebel is a bad thing, which might be true as in the case of Rain Team, some Swift Swimmer like Mega-Swampert or Kingdra doesn't share any weakness with Pelipper, but Kabutops and Omastar suffer from that problem but are used despite this, and having a common type and common weaknesses isn't something unique to weather teams, a lot of team packs two steel type for instance. Morever, Drought is only mandatory for Sun teams, so Malaconda would use Harvest instead. Drought is my second favorite ability.

I'm not a huge fan of offensive abilities on Mala, but Strong Jaw seems to provide enough power to wallbreak somewhat effectively in my opinion, especially with move additions, and it allows to deal with a lot of Mala's switch-in:

252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Malaconda Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 166-196 (49.7 - 58.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (a little more than Wild Charge)
252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Malaconda Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cyclohm: 186-220 (44.2 - 52.3%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Malaconda Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 294-346 (71 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Malaconda Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 187-222 (42.2 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (Poison fang does less damage)
252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Malaconda Fire Fang vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Tangrowth: 184-218 (45.6 - 54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Malaconda Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Toxapex: 206-244 (67.7 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

Note that Crunch does a respectable amount of damage against all of these walls bar Tomohawk, and that Malaconda already has a good physical coverage in the form of Wild Charge.
 

snake

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CAP Co-Leader
I'm actually really starting to like Drought, particularly if we look at some new moves for a Drought set. However, Malaconda has the tools necessary for a good utility set now:

Malaconda @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 124 Def / 136 SpD or 248 HP / 124 Atk / 136 SpD
- Glare / Power Whip
- Rapid Spin
- Pursuit / Knock Off / U-turn
- Synthesis / U-turn

This set provides so much utility to a Sun team. Glare allows Malaconda to cripple switch-ins, which is important for a Sun team. However, with 124 Atk EVs and Power Whip, you can hit Colossoil pretty hard, a problem for most Sun teams. From there, a non-rocks weak Rapid Spinner is extremely useful for a Sun team, and Pursuit traps Latios, which usually checks Mega Charizard Y. If you like Weavile or another Pursuit user better though, Knock Off is useful utility. Synthesis heals 66% in sun, which is important because you get worn down otherwise. Malaconda can exactly stall with Synthesis either: it has only 8 PP, sun lasts 8 turns max, and it drains lots of momentum. U-turn is nice to have on forced switches, but Malaconda probably appreciates the other slots better.

The first EV spread lets Malaconda avoids the 2HKO from Kingdra's Ice Beam and Draco Meteor and from Latios's Draco Meteor and maximizes the remaining physical bulk, while the second gives Malaconda the boost it needs for Colossoil.

To open up a moveslot, you could run another hazard remover like Excadrill.

Here's a core for abusing sun:
Malaconda @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 100 Def / 160 SpD
Careful Nature
- Glare
- Rapid Spin
- Pursuit
- Synthesis

Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 8 HP / 248 Spe / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Earthquake / Focus Blast
- Roost

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Growth
- Solar Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]

This core is a usual sun team with Malaconda on instead of Torkoal. Mega Charizard Y soft checks Syclant, but you'll need a hazard setter, check for Syclant and other faster Pokemon. Garchomp, Weavile, and another Chlorophyll/set up sweeper can support a core like this, but Drought Malaconda makes Sun teams a lot more appealing than having to run Torkoal.

Drought would introduce a new niche for Malaconda, but it doesn't buff its defenses ridiculously like Filter and Regenerator would. With Rain teams on the rise with Mega Swampert, having Malaconda as a countermeasure would be very interesting throwback to Generation 5 with weather wars, although they wouldn't rule the metagame at all. Another set I'm speculating is this:

Malaconda @ Assault Vest
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Adamant Nature
- Power Whip
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin

Assault Vest allows you to tank the aforementioned hits while also letting you your EVs to hit harder or invest in Defense. Malaconda has a useful utility movepool outside of Synthesis and Glare that you can run such a set. The lack of Heat Rock doesn't allow Sun to be out as long, so U-turn would be staple here.

I think a few new moves could help out Malaconda as well, but Drought gives Malaconda enough of a niche alongside Harvest to make it a viable threat. Filter and Regenerator are pretty cool, but they basically outclass Harvest, and as good/bad of an ability Harvest may be, I'd rather not completely overwrite it in favor of a more generic defensive ability just because Harvest doesn't work as well as we want to: there are a couple of moves (not Coil, not Leech Seed) that could support help support a Harvest set. Malaconda's movepool has the right moves already (Rapid Spin, U-turn, Glare, Pursuit, Synthesis) to make Drought Malaconda an extremely versatile utility Pokemon on a Sun team too.

EDIT: I'm not sure how many people will see this, but think of Drought Malaconda like Nasty Plot Voodoom. Malaconda has a bunch of tools to use Sun properly (Glare, Rapid Spin, etc.), while Voodoom had a bunch of tools to use Nasty Plot properly (stat spread, Baton Pass, etc.). Drought Malaconda will be revitalizing the old role in a new way. Let's exemplify Nasty Plot Voodoom, not Sheer Force Voodoom, where we make Malaconda's defense ridiculous to make it relevant again.
 
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cbrevan

spin, spin, spin
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Alright everyone, Jas61292 and I have discussed our slate options, and we agreed upon the following slate:
Drought
Filter
Intimidate
Regenerator
Strong Jaw
No Competitive Ability

We ended up slating these five abilities as they saw the most discussion, and the arguments laid forth for them went into enough detail that we were comfortable slating them. We decided not to slate Stamina because we felt like the argument for it failed to explain why such a powerful ability was needed over similiar options. The other abilities brought up, such as Natural Cure and Rough Skin, didn't see enough discussion to prove what level of impact they'd have, and therefore we couldn't justify slating them.

Poll will be up shortly.
 

cbrevan

spin, spin, spin
is a CAP Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
With our latest poll, Malaconda will be receiving Drought as it's Hidden Ability. From here, we'll be doing a quick discussion for competitive movesets followed by a quick flavour moves discussion. After those discussions have concluded, I'll open up movepool submissions and we'll close out this update.

For this moveset discussion, our goal will be to assess the competitive options Malaconda has to gain from Gen 6 and 7 and whether or not they are within the scope of this update. Additionally, since Drought is such a powerful and defining ability, I believe it will be best for us to take a more conservative route in regards to the additions we consider. Therefore, moves will be considered within the scope of this update as long as they do not create a new niche for Malaconda, and that they do not positively affect too large a number of matchups. As far as new niches go, I'll define this as creating a set that Malaconda would not be able to run either with the tools it has currently, or the tools it already has plus Drought. Another way to phrase this is that any move brought up should support already possible sets or sets centered around Drought. Two clear examples of moves that would fall outside of the scope of this update are Coil and Leech Seed, as they enable sets centered around them.

As far as the actual structure for discussion, I'd prefer if we focus on showcasing potential movesets and exploring them through relevant damage calculations and by answering the questions I've included below. This should give us a better feel as to the viability of moves brought up. I plan to leave moveset discussions up for two days, potentially one day if discussion slows to a halt before then, so please post as soon as possible.

Here are some guiding questions for this discussion:
  • What moves would you like to see added to Malaconda, and what would a moveset with them look like?
  • Why is this move and moveset a competitive option for Malaconda? If they're not competitive, bring them up later in the appropriate discussion.
  • Does this moveset redefine how Malaconda is played, or in any other way create a new niche for Malaconda outside of it's current options?
  • How does it interact with Malaconda's new ability, Drought, if at all?
  • Why do you believe your proposed move and moveset are within the scope of this update?
  • What matchups does your proposed move affect? What damage calculations can be done to show this?
 
Bulky Sun Attacker (Malaconda) @ Assault Vest / Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 Atk / 76 SpD / 180 Spe OR 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Power Whip
- Fire Lash
- U-turn / Knock Off / Rapid Spin
- Synthesis / Crunch / Knock Off / Sucker Punch

This moveset takes full advantage of Drought. Fire Lash is added as Malaconda badly needs a good coverage move to deal with those pesky Bug-types. In the sun, it OHKOs Mega Scizor. However, it does not without it, so it isn't too bad.

252+ Atk Malaconda Fire Lash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor-Mega: 240-284 (69.9 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Malaconda Fire Lash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor-Mega in Sun: 360-424 (104.9 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Mega Scizor is also the reason for the 180 Speed investment, as it outspeeds Mega Scizor by one point. If you don't care about Mega Scizor, run the alternate spread. Assault Vest can be run to be able to check the likes of Tapu Lele, while Heat Rock can be run to maximize Sun.

252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 76 SpD Assault Vest Malaconda: 156-186 (42 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 180 HP / 76 SpD Assault Vest Malaconda: 156-186 (37.5 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Lele: 226-267 (80.4 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Does this moveset redefine how Malaconda is played, or in any other way create a new niche for Malaconda outside of it's current options?

I don't think it does. As this set is centered around Drought. Furthermore, it only adds Fire Lash. This to me seems perfectly reasonable.

What matchups does your proposed move affect? What damage calculations can be done to show this?
If you run the first spread, you now win against Mega Scizor while in the sun. If you run Assault Vest, it affects matchups against Special Attackers, most notably of which that I could find for now is Aurumoth, as it is 2HKOed by Fire Lash in the sun.

252+ Atk Malaconda Fire Lash vs. 24 HP / 0 Def Aurumoth in Sun: 244-288 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 

snake

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CAP Co-Leader
What moves would you like to see added to Malaconda, and what would a moveset with them look like?

There are a couple of competitive moves for which I'd like to advocate: Spiky Shield and Ice Fang.

Why is this move and moveset a competitive option for Malaconda? If they're not competitive, bring them up later in the appropriate discussion. What matchups does your proposed move affect? What damage calculations can be done to show this?

Spiky Shield is exceptionally useful for Malaconda. Spiky Shield a) allows Malaconda to chip down faster physical attackers (but not constantly), b) gives Harvest more time to activate, and c) lets Malaconda absorb Z moves, which is important for tanks in this metagame.

First, Spiky Shield is Protect that causes contact damage. This makes the opponent think twice before using U-turn or Close Combat against Malaconda, making Malaconda not totally helpless against opposing physical attackers. However, the opponent could predict and set up or heal instead of attack, so Malaconda isn't consistently chipping down the foe every turn. Second, Spiky Shield helps mitigate Harvest's problem. Over one turn, the chance of not getting a berry is 50%, but over two, the chance is 25%. Having that extra turn to allow Harvest to roll the dice again allows Malaconda to have an easier time regaining more Sitrus Berries. Finally, Spiky Shield allows Malaconda to absorb Z moves much better. Similar to how contact users should be wary of attacking Malaconda, the presence of Spiky Shield causes opposing Z move users to think twice about using their Z moves. While Malaconda might not have the bulk to stomach super effective Z moves, it does when Protect is up, which causes the Z move's damage output to be quartered. However, a good portion of Z move users also have boosting moves, so Malaconda causes neat 50/50 situations with your opponent: "Do I set up and risk getting hit with Glare OR do I use my Z move before I get hit by Glare?" Relevant situations and calcs will be included below. Note that Protect could achieve similar effects to Spiky Shield, but the extra utility provided by Spiky Shield warrants a moveslot.

Malaconda @ Sitrus Berry / Lum Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 120 SpD / 40 Spe
Careful Nature
- Spiky Shield
- Glare
- Power Whip / Rest
- Knock Off

This is a sample set for Spiky Shield Harvest Malaconda. The given EV spread lets Malaconda tank a defensive Landorus-T's U-turn from full, maximizes the remaining special bulk, and ensures that Malaconda can outspeed Jolly Landorus-T. The EV spread is also tailored to deal with Flyinium Z Landorus as best as possible (explanation below).

[Hide vs. Flyinium Z Landorus-T]252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 96 Def Malaconda: 890-1050 (205 - 241.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Under normal circumstances, Landorus-T more than OHKOes Malaconda with SSSS. However, behind protect:

252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 96 Def protected Malaconda: 222-262 (51.1 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Landorus-T always puts Malaconda into Sitrus range. Note that SSSS never makes contact, so no damage from Spiky Shield. From there, Landorus-T can use only Earthquake to actually hit Malaconda because Fly gets blocked by Spiky Shield. Malaconda is free to use Glare and Power Whip to cripple and wear down Landorus-T. However, this does not factor in Swords Dance on offensive Landorus-T, so the situation is actually more like this (assuming Malaconda and Landorus-T are 1v1):

The Malaconda user can either choose Spiky Shield or Glare; whereas the Landorus-T user can either choose Swords Dance or SSSS. If Malaconda uses Glare on the SD or if Malaconda uses Spiky Shield against SSSS, Malaconda has successfully crippled a serious offensive threat. But if Malaconda uses Glare on the SSSS or Spiky Shield on the SD, then Malaconda has successfully dun goofed. However, Spiky Shield is what makes this situation possible.
Malaconda @ Sitrus Berry / Lum Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spiky Shield
- Glare
- Power Whip / Rest
- Knock Off

If having tech against Landorus-T's sets doesn't appeal to you, then a fully specially defensive spread works too. Let's take a look at how Spiky Shield Malaconda lines up against Volcarona.

+1 252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Malaconda: 332-392 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Inferno Overdrive (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Malaconda: 560-660 (129 - 152%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Inferno Overdrive (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD protected Malaconda: 140-165 (32.2 - 38%) -- 95.5% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Malaconda: 444-524 (102.3 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Malaconda can switch into a Volcarona 1v1 and threaten to paralyze it, but if it has Firium Z, it can break past it. However, Spiky Shield allows Malaconda to create a 50/50 with it. If it uses Quiver Dance to boost to +2, it risks a Glare. If it goes for Inferno Overdrive, it might waste it on a Spiky Shield. While Volcarona can break past Malaconda after weakened Inferno Overdrive, Malaconda's teammates don't have to worry about Volcorona's Z stone anymore.

Of course these two spreads aren't the only options, but these are two relevant ones that I found to work with Spiky Shield. Also, remember that Spiky Shield does take up a moveslot, which means that's one less for a Pursuit, U-turn, or Rapid Spin in addition to Power Whip, Glare, and Knock Off. Basically, Spiky Shield allows Malaconda not to completely flop against physical attackers (but not completely turning the match up around), gives an extra turn for Harvest to activate, and helps Malaconda tank Z moves, which is important for a special tank.

-----

For my second move proposition, I've got Ice Fang. During Malaconda's creation process, this move was allowed into movepool submissions, but the winning movepool did not include it. However, second place's did include it, and I think it's a good move to consider anyways.

When you add a Grass-type to a team like Tapu Bulu or Tangrowth, it's usually to check Ground-types. However, Malaconda is an inconsistent Ground-type check simply because Power Whip hits the most common Ground-types like Zygarde and Landorus-T neutrally, which is weak without investment. Power Whip is still useful to hit Colossoil and Tapu Fini, but Ice Fang would allow Malaconda another option to better check other relevant Ground-types. Most of the time, you have to hit Ice Fang on the switch, though some of the slower Ground-types can be outsped when paralyzed or Malaconda can run some speed to get the jump on them. Additionally, Ice Fang is extremely weak against most other threats: it's unSTABbed 65 BP, so outside of 4x weak targets it's a pretty dead moveslot. Below are some relevant situations and calcs support for this move.

Malaconda @ Sitrus Berry / Lum Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP / 212 SpD / 40 Spe
Careful Nature
- Power Whip / Rest
- Knock Off
- Ice Fang
- Glare
-1 4 Atk Malaconda Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 136-164 (42.6 - 51.4%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Malaconda Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 204-244 (63.9 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The first calc is Landorus-T switching into Malaconda. The second is Malaconda coming in against a paralyzed Landorus-T and attacking first with appropriate speed investment.
-1 4 Atk Malaconda Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 104-124 (27.2 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 Atk Malaconda Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 152-180 (39.7 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Same situations as offensive.
0 Atk Malaconda Ice Fang vs. +1 240 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 108-128 (25.8 - 30.6%) -- 1.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. +1 240 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 75-88 (17.9 - 21.1%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

Malaconda switches in as Zygarde sets up a Coil. Now, Zygarde cannot Substitute safely and risks a Glare from Malaconda. Lum Berry is an option to avoid Toxic from Zygarde.
0 Atk Malaconda Ice Fang vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 200-236 (55.8 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 135-160 (37.7 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 297-349 (68.4 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Garchomp chips down Malaconda and hits hard with Outrage, but Ice Fang wears it down a good bit.
0 Atk Malaconda Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 224-268 (67.6 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Malaconda Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 84-100 (25.3 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252 Atk Salamence Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 888-1046 (204.6 - 241%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 306-360 (70.5 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

While Malaconda has a terrible match up against Salamence otherwise, Ice Fang gives it a bit of leverage in this match up. Yeah I know Salamence isn't Ground-type but it's 4x weak to Ice-type moves.

Just like Spiky Shield, Ice Fang eats a precious moveslot, meaning you have one less moveslot to run a STAB move, Rapid Spin, U-turn, etc. However, for Malaconda to truly compete for a moveslot against other bulky Grass-types, it needs to have viable counterplay against most relevant Ground-types, and Ice Fang provides this without inviting an overwhelmingly powerful offensive set.

Does this moveset redefine how Malaconda is played, or in any other way create a new niche for Malaconda outside of it's current options?

Spiky Shield lets Malaconda not completely flop over to the threats it loses to, lets it be an effective Z move tank, and allows it to take advantage of Harvest better. Ice Fang on the other hand lets Malaconda bite through other Ground-types better while being useless on its own due to its low base power.

How does it interact with Malaconda's new ability, Drought, if at all?

Spiky Shield would stall out Drought turns, so we'd see it exclusively on Harvest sets. Ice Fang would be an option to run in conjunction with Fire Lash I suppose, but it wouldn't play much differently on a Drought set than a Harvest set unless Drought sets tend to be more offensive.

Why do you believe your proposed move and moveset are within the scope of this update?

Spiky Shield was the move that I was talking about earlier in this thread. It helps Malaconda use Harvest effectively, and supporting Harvest seems to be a good direction to take with this update. Ice Fang helps Malaconda's position in the metagame, allowing it to stand up with other picks for Ground-type checks like Tangrowth.
 
I like the idea of giving fire coverage to Malaconda, as it has great synergy with its new ability, however I think Fire Lash might be a bit too much, as it not only it has 120 Base Power in the sun, but also always lowers the target's Defense. With this, max attack Malaconda manages to 2HKO Physically defensive Skarmory:

252+ Atk Malaconda Fire Lash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory in Sun: 136-162 (40.7 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Malaconda Fire Lash vs. -1 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory in Sun: 204-242 (61 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.

Bulky Sun Attacker (Malaconda) @ Assault Vest / Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 Atk / 76 SpD / 180 Spe OR 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Power Whip
- Fire Lash Fire Fang
- U-turn / Knock Off / Rapid Spin
- Synthesis / Crunch / Knock Off / Sucker Punch
I believe the better option is Fire Fang, this would still manage to 2HKO some mons with a x4 weakness to fire, most notably Ferrothorn and Scizor, while still failing to break Skarmory:

252+ Atk Malaconda Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn in Sun: 264-312 (75 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Malaconda Fire Fang vs. 248 HP / 116+ Def Scizor-Mega in Sun: 248-292 (72.3 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Malaconda Fire Lash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory in Sun: 136-162 (40.7 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
dis is a wip (wip)
Is willo wisp allowed. It can breed so it can be a egg move. It can do it with pyroak, the ghost grasses, turtanator, salazzley and their ilk.

I'm an asshole (Malaconda) @ Sitrus Berry/Heat Rock
Ability: Harvest/Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp/Glare
- Knock Off
- Power Whip
- U-turn

Does this moveset redefine how Malaconda is played, or in any other way create a new niche for Malaconda outside of it's current options?
Well it would allow it to have more staying power. It can cripple mons, but in a different way that patches up it's ass defense.

0 Atk burned Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Malaconda: 266-314 (61.2 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Does this moveset interact with Malaconda's new ability Drought, if at all?
It can, but willo wips might be more suited for the harvest set, as it gives it more staying power while glare might slow some things
 
Last edited:

LucarioOfLegends

Master Procraster
is a CAP Contributor
I pretty much entirely support the addition of Spiky Shield for Malaconda, as it solves some of Malaconda's major recovery issues with Harvest. This makes it a far more reliable recovery to let it wall things much better. It also gives it an answer to U-turns and supereffective contact moves, as it can now scout out these moves that would otherwise threaten it greatly. I see it as a very beneficial option, but it does take up a major moveslot that could be used for Glares and U-turns itself, and is very much dependent on prediction to correctly use. This should be in the scope of the updates.

On the other hand, I am completely and totally against the addition of any Fire coverage, especially Fire Lash and Fire Fang. What these moves do is turn some of the best counters and checks to Malaconda, such as Mega Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Syclant, and severely weakens them as these checks and counters. While it is ok to remove some of a mons checks to slightly improve its viability, hence why I am mostly indifferent Ice Fang, removing their best mons to beat them is a terrible idea as it breaks the fine balance that the mon already had. I would rather maintain this balance and keep its main threats alive, so I think that giving Malaconda Fire coverage is a terrible, terrible idea.
 
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