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Counter that DW Pokemon!
- Thread starter Birkal
- Start date
^ Oh...I did not see that Sash, although I'm guessing that switching in on one of Flygon's moves will eliminate that Sash. You're probably right though...would you like me to re-counter that?
Meanwhile, off to stopping Breloom.
Mienshao @ Life Orb, Regenerator
252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe with Naive
-Fake Out
-U-turn
-Hi Jump Kick / Drain Punch
-HP Ice
Thanks to Breloom not having Swords Dance *cough cough, Mienshao can come in to revenge Breloom any day. Outspeeding Breloom and taking a Mach Punch relatively well, Mienshao can Fake Out + HP Ice for a kill. It can then decide to U-turn out and heal 33% with Regenerator or proceed to demolish the entire opposition with Hi Jump Kick. Drain Punch is slashed in because of Chandelure and it's another great option, but the Chandelure switch should be predicted and U-turned before-hand.
Meanwhile, off to stopping Breloom.
Mienshao @ Life Orb, Regenerator
252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe with Naive
-Fake Out
-U-turn
-Hi Jump Kick / Drain Punch
-HP Ice
Thanks to Breloom not having Swords Dance *cough cough, Mienshao can come in to revenge Breloom any day. Outspeeding Breloom and taking a Mach Punch relatively well, Mienshao can Fake Out + HP Ice for a kill. It can then decide to U-turn out and heal 33% with Regenerator or proceed to demolish the entire opposition with Hi Jump Kick. Drain Punch is slashed in because of Chandelure and it's another great option, but the Chandelure switch should be predicted and U-turned before-hand.
Sayonara
don't forget
Gengar |
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
~ Substitute
~ Disable
~ Shadow Ball
~ Focus Blast
Gengar can come in on Hi-Jump Kick, which means Mienshao will be crashing, and losing 50% of its health. Gengar is also immune to Fake Out, and won't be hit very hard from an univested HP Ice. It can set up a Substitute in the meantime, whilst Mienshao exits.
Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
- Shadow Sneak
- Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
Spiritomb is an excellent counter to SubDisable Gengar, as it has 3 different moves with which it can hit Gengar for super effective damage, meaning that Disable is useless. Two of those moves have priority as well, meaning that unless Gengar has a Substitute up, it is gonna get smashed before it can even use Disable. Pursuit / Sucker Punch plays mind games with Gengar, and easily traps it, should it not have a Substitute up. Granted, Spiritomb isn't seen very often in the metagame, but it serves as a great counter to Gengar nonetheless.
Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Dragon Dance
- Taunt
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
Tyranitar can easily switch into anything apart from Will-O-Wisp, Taunt the thing and then set up DDs. It can also prevent Skarmory from phazing you out with Taunt too, letting you set up more DDs. Stone Edge and Earthquake offer great coverage. You can easily set up on stuff like -2 Latios as well, not just Spiritomb.
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 24 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain
- Psychic / Hidden Power Fire
- Earth Power / Recover
Celebi is a great check to Keldeo, not even close to being 2HKOed by Hydro Pump and can easily OHKO back with Giga Drain or Psychic. Hidden Power Ghost is a 2HKO, but obviously don't switch it in on Hidden Power Ghost...
Placeholder for Omicron.
EDIT:
Blaziken @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-Protect
-Swords Dance
-Flare Blitz
-Hi Jump Kick
As long as the prevailing weather is not rain and Reflect is not up, calcs are not needed to see if Blaziken cleanly OHKOs Celebi with an unboosted Flare Blitz. It can even set up Swords Dance on other Pokemon, should it be given the opportunity to do so (such as a switch from Celebi). Hi Jump Kick is to rape shit not named Chandelure, while Flare Blitz hits even Chandelure hard.
EDIT:
Blaziken @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-Protect
-Swords Dance
-Flare Blitz
-Hi Jump Kick
As long as the prevailing weather is not rain and Reflect is not up, calcs are not needed to see if Blaziken cleanly OHKOs Celebi with an unboosted Flare Blitz. It can even set up Swords Dance on other Pokemon, should it be given the opportunity to do so (such as a switch from Celebi). Hi Jump Kick is to rape shit not named Chandelure, while Flare Blitz hits even Chandelure hard.
I feel like I'm spamming this thread too much... xD
Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Cursed Body / Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Nature: Bold
- Surf
- Toxic
- Recover
- Taunt
Jellicent is the perfect counter to almost any Blaziken set, as long as it doesn't run SD + Shadow Claw. Its great bulk allows it to take Flare Blitz with ease, and can easily KO with Surf in return, not to mention that it can simply Recover off the damage after Blaziken is taken care of. Jellicent isn't a very common sight in the Dream World metagame, but it is the best thing that you can get as a Blaziken counter / check.
Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Cursed Body / Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Nature: Bold
- Surf
- Toxic
- Recover
- Taunt
Jellicent is the perfect counter to almost any Blaziken set, as long as it doesn't run SD + Shadow Claw. Its great bulk allows it to take Flare Blitz with ease, and can easily KO with Surf in return, not to mention that it can simply Recover off the damage after Blaziken is taken care of. Jellicent isn't a very common sight in the Dream World metagame, but it is the best thing that you can get as a Blaziken counter / check.
![](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31OfpAevmgL._SL500_AA300_.jpg[URL="http://www.pokemon-thebest4ever.fan-club.it/pokemon-thebest4ever/pagine/thundurus_v_3_by_xous54-d39etep.png.png"][/URL])
Thundurus (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
Heysup Jellicent, meet Thundurus. With a STAB Thunderbolt, access to Nasty Plot, and a trollishly high speed, Jellicent will be trying. Even if it has the rare Toxic, or attempts to burn it, it has Lum Berry to insure he stays status-free.
^this is not even close to a check. It only has base 110 Speed, meaning Thundurus will outspeed and OHKO. Even if it was faster, it cannot switch into Thundurus at all, making it a very shaky check, if it can even be called that.
A more appropriate check to Thundurus would be something like this:
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Nature: Careful
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Curse
Specially defensive Unaware Quagsire is a great check to Thundurus, as it ignores its Nasty Plot boosts, and only takes neutral damage from Hidden Power Ice and Focus Blast. Quagsire can easily set up on Thundurus and proceed to KO with Waterfall. It can also Recover off any damage it might have taken. Quagsire is a really underrated check to many things, as it is virtually unseen in the Dream World metagame, but it can definitely surprise you if given the chance.
A more appropriate check to Thundurus would be something like this:
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Nature: Careful
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Curse
Specially defensive Unaware Quagsire is a great check to Thundurus, as it ignores its Nasty Plot boosts, and only takes neutral damage from Hidden Power Ice and Focus Blast. Quagsire can easily set up on Thundurus and proceed to KO with Waterfall. It can also Recover off any damage it might have taken. Quagsire is a really underrated check to many things, as it is virtually unseen in the Dream World metagame, but it can definitely surprise you if given the chance.
...
crap. 110...argh i forgot -.- I'm having some major issues here.
REDO
Blissey@Leftovers
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
-Wish
-Protect
-Ice Beam/Flamethrower
-Toxic
Okay, something that can switch in to Thundurus! Toxic Stall will destroy him, and Ice Beam is just icing on the cake: with 75 base Special Attack, its quite usable. Flamethrower is another alternative to check Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Genesect, the latter running rampant in DW OU. Wish passing is also nice.
crap. 110...argh i forgot -.- I'm having some major issues here.
REDO
Blissey@Leftovers
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
-Wish
-Protect
-Ice Beam/Flamethrower
-Toxic
Okay, something that can switch in to Thundurus! Toxic Stall will destroy him, and Ice Beam is just icing on the cake: with 75 base Special Attack, its quite usable. Flamethrower is another alternative to check Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Genesect, the latter running rampant in DW OU. Wish passing is also nice.
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe
Nature: Impish
- Substitute
- Protect
- Toxic
- Earthquake
Came up with something that deals with both of them pretty well. If a Sub is already up, easy pickings with a Toxic first, then Sub and Protect. If not, it doesn't instantly die to either of the above's attacks, so it can get a Toxic first. If you don't want to be fodder for Balloon Pokes, you can swap Protect out for some attack. Very effective it it has a Sub up already, problem if not.
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe
Nature: Impish
- Substitute
- Protect
- Toxic
- Earthquake
Came up with something that deals with both of them pretty well. If a Sub is already up, easy pickings with a Toxic first, then Sub and Protect. If not, it doesn't instantly die to either of the above's attacks, so it can get a Toxic first. If you don't want to be fodder for Balloon Pokes, you can swap Protect out for some attack. Very effective it it has a Sub up already, problem if not.
Umm, I'm pretty sure Blissey's Ice Beam can OHKO it. And if Quasire's Waterfall is a 2HKO, and if Gliscor can't retrun KO then it's not necessarily a check.
But anyways, I'm sure this is a good and valid check.
Cloyster @ Focus Sash
252 Atk / 252 Spe Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Razor Shell / Hydro Pump
Say hello to one of the scariest leads ever introduced in Pokemon. Cloyster can switch in on either Substitute or Protect, Shell Smash once and completely destroy Gliscor with a 5 hit +2 Icicle Spear, breaking that Substitute like it was nothing. 5 hit Rock Blast and Razor Shell round off the coverage perfectly. Even if Gliscor manages to Toxic Cloyster, it can't OHKO before a Shell Smash lowers its defenses, and by then Cloyster is ready to kill.
Even if Gliscor is 2HKOed by Waterfall, it's faster so after it Toxic's Quagsire it can alternate between Sub and Protect to stall it out. You may be right about Blissey, but i haven't had problems before (maybe I'm just lucky). Obviously you couldn't switch into either using Waterfall / Ice Beam, but Gliscor gernerally works well.
Countering Cloyster:
Sableye@Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Nature: Careful
-Will-O-Wisp
-Recover
-Foul Play
-Taunt
Sableye can come in and Will-O-Wisp Cloyster, rendering it nearly useless, unless it spams Hydro Pump. After Will-O-Wisping, Sableye can Taunt to prevent any Shell Smash shenanigans, or if it predicts correctly, it can even catch Cloyster by surprise with a Foul Play as it Shell Smashes.
Sableye@Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Nature: Careful
-Will-O-Wisp
-Recover
-Foul Play
-Taunt
Sableye can come in and Will-O-Wisp Cloyster, rendering it nearly useless, unless it spams Hydro Pump. After Will-O-Wisping, Sableye can Taunt to prevent any Shell Smash shenanigans, or if it predicts correctly, it can even catch Cloyster by surprise with a Foul Play as it Shell Smashes.
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk (minimal Foul Play damage)
Nature: Modest
-Toxic
-Swagger
-Magma Storm
-Substitute
Technically, nothing has 100% chance of beating this set.
Anyways, switch into Sableye's Will-O-Wisp, blow it to shreds with Magma Storm, which handily deals DOT, and traps them. Swagger confuses and Toxic poisons to abuse the trapping effect, plus the damage starts to really stack.
Clefable @ Lum Berry
252 HP/116 SpDef/140 Spe
Calm / Magic Guard
Seismic Toss
Softboiled
Recycle
Toxic
I know this is easy to counter itself, but I wanted to put up something that COULD beat that heatran 100%. Speed outpaces 0 Spe Heatran so it can Recycle before being hit by Swagger again. It can easily tank Magma Storms, break subs with Seismic Toss, and be a pain in the ass.
Magma storm calc: 394 Atk vs 269 Def & 394 HP (120 Base Power): 189 - 223 (47.97% - 56.60%)
Yeah, it does 56% damage, but it also only has 8 PP, meaning that clefable can stall it out because it outspeeds Heatran and can Softboiled first, and Magic Guard nullifies the damage-per-turn effect of Magma Storm as well.
inb4 somebody uses gengar to counter this set
There are other Ghosts than Gengar, you know...
Mismagius @ Leftovers
160 HP / 96 SpA / 252 Spe Timid
-Substitute
-Calm Mind
-Shadow Ball
-HP Fighting
You gotta love perfect coverage SubCM. Sure, Chandelure can actually lock the other Pokemon, but middling speed does NOT work for it. Mismagius, with an (imperfect) 109 Speed, happens to nicely outrun and outpace a vast majority of the metagame. Better yet, most faster Pokemon are special attackers, such as Latios, Serperior, etc, who can't KO Mismagius after a few Calm Mind boosts.
Mismagius @ Leftovers
160 HP / 96 SpA / 252 Spe Timid
-Substitute
-Calm Mind
-Shadow Ball
-HP Fighting
You gotta love perfect coverage SubCM. Sure, Chandelure can actually lock the other Pokemon, but middling speed does NOT work for it. Mismagius, with an (imperfect) 109 Speed, happens to nicely outrun and outpace a vast majority of the metagame. Better yet, most faster Pokemon are special attackers, such as Latios, Serperior, etc, who can't KO Mismagius after a few Calm Mind boosts.
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Wish
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
This is your standard CM Wish Jirachi set from BW OU, which counters SubCM Mismagius perfectly. Mismagius' Shadow Ball deals 24.5% - 28.96% and 36.63% - 43.32% at +0 and +1, respectively. This means that Jirachi can switch in, take a Calm Mind boosted Shadow Ball with ease, and proceed to Calm Mind up alongside Mismagius while keeping itself healthy with Wish. Jirachi will eventually win the Calm Mind war thanks to Psyshock, which will ko after a few boosts while bypassing Mismagius' boosted SpD.
Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 52 HP / 252 SpD / 204 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin
Excadrill hard-counters CM Jirachi. Although the standard set is probably more dangerous, I wanted to be different, so this Excadrill is much more of a supporter. As such, it doesn't really care what weather it's in, although Sand is obviously still its favourite. This Excadrill can also be used in the rain, which with its decent bulk and investment, he can actually tank quite a lot of attacks. Bulky Excadrill focuses on switching in again and again to pull of spins, and possibly sweeping as well. The EVs focus on Excadrill's Special Defense, letting it tank a couple of Draco Meteors if need be. 204 Speed lets you outspeed Timid Specs Politoed in neutral weather, and Scarfed Lati@s if Sandstorm is up.
Breloom would be too boring as a counter. Besides, this Pokemon kicks butt much more.
Azumarill @ Choice Band / Muscle Band
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe Adamant
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Ice Punch
- Superpower
I haven't seen Azumarill in DW OU, and I really wonder why. Double STAB priority Aqua Jet with Choice Band and an attack stat of 436? Really? When the rain is up, Azumarill is basically unstoppable. While Choice Band is a great choice, Muscle Band also works as a fake-out to trick your opponent into thinking you've been move locked. Ice Punch kills dragons, Waterfall gets extra damage, Superpower rounds off the coverage.
Azumarill @ Choice Band / Muscle Band
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe Adamant
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Ice Punch
- Superpower
I haven't seen Azumarill in DW OU, and I really wonder why. Double STAB priority Aqua Jet with Choice Band and an attack stat of 436? Really? When the rain is up, Azumarill is basically unstoppable. While Choice Band is a great choice, Muscle Band also works as a fake-out to trick your opponent into thinking you've been move locked. Ice Punch kills dragons, Waterfall gets extra damage, Superpower rounds off the coverage.
Rotom-W w/ Light ClayBreloom would be too boring as a counter. Besides, this Pokemon kicks butt much more.
Azumarill @ Choice Band / Muscle Band
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe Adamant
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Ice Punch
- Superpower
I haven't seen Azumarill in DW OU, and I really wonder why. Double STAB priority Aqua Jet with Choice Band and an attack stat of 436? Really? When the rain is up, Azumarill is basically unstoppable. While Choice Band is a great choice, Muscle Band also works as a fake-out to trick your opponent into thinking you've been move locked. Ice Punch kills dragons, Waterfall gets extra damage, Superpower rounds off the coverage.
252 HP/4 SpA/ 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
-Thunderbolt/volt Switch
-Hydro Pump
-Light Screen
-Reflect
It's a dual screen Rotom. I chose Rotom-W because it has a good mix of defensive stats, speed and hydro pump. Only a Choice Banded Superpower is going to inflict more than 50% Damage, and that's without Reflect. With Reflect, it goes down to 25-30% Damage. And since this Rotom is faster, reflect will come before superpower does. After the Reflect, rotom can 2HKO with thunderbolt. Volt switch can be used for safety reasons, but now some match ups against others are lost. Against anyone slower and tanker, it's safer than T-Bolt, and Switch preventing is laughable with this move, but it becomes harder to KO others. this can be done with the Fridge Rotom, but you lose resistances, and blizzard is not that accurate. Makes it easier to KO others though, as this is bolt-beaming, technically.
Virizion @ Leftovers
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Naive
-Swords Dance
-Leaf Blade
-Close Combat
-HP Ice
Physical Virizion is the perfect Pokemon to counter Rotom-W, bypassing the bad accuracy of Focus Blast and gaining a +2 boost with Swords Dance as opposed to a meager +1 Calm Mind boost. Leaf Blade and Close Combat utterly rips holes through everything, and 108 speed outruns a huge number of Pokemon. HP Ice has great coverage against Dragons and Flying types, especially Gliscor.