Doubles UU

Camerupt was never really "banned" per say. It moved up to dou a few months ago and now doesn't have enough usage to stay dou, so it dropped.
 

n10siT

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duu can't ban things seeing as it is not an official tier, see char x

camel is really good cause it beats char x, for what that's worth, and tang and victini and big snow and diancie (and now the chandelier), but resurgence of both mega and regular turtle will keep it in check. im gonna love playing with p2 again, it just shits on teams that don't have flame orb hari, or like, mega heracross. (protip: pair p2 with something that beats fighting types@!!!!)
 

xzern

for sure
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I agree, camerupt probably isnt broken because people actually use water types now and it relies so heavily on trick room. I dont think that camerupt existing is enough to unban charizard x from tours though. Also guys remember to nominate our new drops, Porygon 2, Camerupt, and Chandelure could all probably find a place on the vr.
 

Bughouse

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duu can't ban things seeing as it is not an official tier, see char x
DUU can ban things if it wants. FU banned things and PU was banning things before it was official too. You just need an organized group of people who want to do it and agree to play by the same rules. Other unofficial metagames like monotype, etc ban things all the time.
 
duu can't ban things seeing as it is not an official tier, see char x

camel is really good cause it beats char x, for what that's worth, and tang and victini and big snow and diancie (and now the chandelier), but resurgence of both mega and regular turtle will keep it in check. im gonna love playing with p2 again, it just shits on teams that don't have flame orb hari, or like, mega heracross. (protip: pair p2 with something that beats fighting types@!!!!)
DUU can ban things if it wants. FU banned things and PU was banning things before it was official too. You just need an organized group of people who want to do it and agree to play by the same rules. Other unofficial metagames like monotype, etc ban things all the time.
Better example is LCUU, which has a banlist. http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/lc-uu-introduction-and-discussion-sticky-web-banned.3547292/
 

emma

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I think we should put mega rupt in tier 1. n10sit, four posts up, basically explained it all, it has the ability to beat Zard X, Tangela, Victini, Diancie, Mega Snow (all tier 1 to tier 1.5 threats) but (Mega) Blastoise is a common and strong threat that will keep it out of the banned from tours rank imo.

also we now uncross out mega rupt from the banner :D
 
Hello I am here to make a few (somewhat preemptive) viability noms. (No pictures sorry I'm cheap)

Camerupt-Mega UR -> 1.5: I think that all of us can agree that this is a fantastic mon. It is the fastest thing under the sun when Trick Room is up, It has very powerful spread moves, and it beats everything in tier 1 except Mega-Blast, with it's tier 1.5 and tier 2 match-ups being fantastic as well. Most of the things it can't beat are easily checked by other common mons (Tangela, Hariyama, etc.) Its only problems are that it has a terrible time outside of TR, and water is a really good type right now in the meta.

Chandelure UR -> 2: Being a TR setter with an immunity to fake out rocks, and it has other useful immunities as well in Normal, Fighting, and Fire courtesy of its ability. Fire Blast and Shadow Ball coming from 145 base special attack hit things very hard and Chandy has useful luring options in moves like Will-o-Wisp, Energy Ball, and Hidden Power Fighting. It does have some problems though, as it is pretty much hard-stopped by Diancie and has to compete for a team slot with Hoopa. Its speed tier is also a little awkward though, as it gets put to sleep by Rose (which outspeeds it) and Hoopa outspeeds it when TR is up. Nevertheless a good mon though.

Porygon2 UR -> 1.5: Porygon2 is a TR setter that is incredibly bulky while not being a sitting duck thanks to download and 105 base special attack. Its moveslots can be tailored to hit whatever you need to with it thanks to its great coverage. It also has Recover to ensure that it can set-up TR again and again. Its only real problems are that it has no sitrus recovery as well as its weakness to knock off. Fighting types are also a problem for it, but there are plenty of good fighting resists in this meta so it's manageable.

Thundurus-T UR -> 2: It is a slower, but much more powerful Raikou with better coverage. It does suffer from a rock weakness though, but it can alleviate that with Flash Cannon or Grass Knot. A Ground immunity is also nice. It sits at a nice speed tier where it outspeeds the base one hundreds, and it can hit most of them with its powerful thunderbolts. Also this mon is legal, I've used it on the ladder.

Volcarona Tier 1 -> 1.5: This has a harder time in the new meta, Chandy and Camel just wall it while the waters the new mons being used to check them also check Volc, also needs much more support than anything in tier 1. Drop it imo.

Abomasnow-Mega Tier 1.5 -> 2 or 2.5: We have 2 new fires, one of which is a better TR abuser than it is. Plus was hail really ever that good anyway.

Hoopa Tier 1.5 -> 2: This now has major competition in Chandelure as an offensive ghost type that can use TR. It is (arguably) the better abuser thanks to Hyperspace Hole, but it has the physical bulk of a wet paper bag, and Fire is a better Stab than Psychic is. This is definitely on the same level as Chandy, but I would never put one over the other.

Gastrodon Tier 2 -> 1.5: The meta is now really in favor of glop glop, Camel and Chand are both fantastic partners for it since they remove Tangela easily. It also has an easy time getting past Camel + redirector thanks to Muddy Water hitting both sides.

Magnezone Tier 2 -> 3: Thundy-T just kind of, outclasses it. Not to mention that being an electric weak to fires isn't fun.

Roserade Tier 2 -> 2.5: This had a terribly low win rate in the duu tournament, plus there are 2 new fire types that, while it can sleep it, it has to run timid to ensure it isn't just Fire Blasted. Plus many of the things it beat (bar waters) are going down in usage.

Aromatisse Tier 4 -> UR: This is bad, it is outclassed by every other tr setter, and we just got 2 more.

Escavalier Tier 4 -> UR: See above, just replace TR setter with TR attacker. Plus fire's exist.
 
I agree on most noms. I'll explain the ones I disagree.

Volcarona Tier 1 --> Tier 1.5. Yes there are 2 new mons that wall it, but this is still a powerhouse you have to prepare really well for. Nice bulk which gets boosted by Quiver Dance + Amazing offensive ability. You have to be really careful to prevent it from setting up QD, which is not very difficult if you have good redirection. It has a nice spread move being Heat Wave. Also, you don't know if it runs Bug Buzz or Giga Drain which makes it kind of unpredictable. If it runs Bug Buzz it has the option to kill Lati and improves matchup against other dragons, and if it runs Giga Drain it has a decent matchup against Water, Ground and Rock types. Even those which seem to wall it can lose against Volc 1 vs 1
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Blastoise: 315-372 (87 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Blastoise Scald vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 98-116 (31.5 - 37.2%) -- 76.5% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gastrodon: 515-608 (120.8 - 142.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Gastrodon Scald vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 146-174 (46.9 - 55.9%) -- 69.9% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Solid Rock Rhydon: 413-487 (99.7 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Imo, keep it in Tier 1

Roserade Tier 2 --> Tier 2.5. I think this is one of the best Grass types, being good against both TR and Tailwind matchups, unlike other Grass types like Serperior. As you said, there are 2 new good fires, so water types are gonna increase in usage and this is one of the best answers to them. It's good against the always annoying Tangela and Gastro. Besides that, it's a decent answer to Porygon2, whom it can sleep powder before p2 sets up TR., and maybe Hoopa which often runs Colbur Berry.

Aromatisse Tier 4 --> UR. Imo it has a niche, being immune to Taunt, and Sleep powder (thanks to Safety Googles) and resisting Dark attacks. I agree that it's not the best TR setter but it has a group of characteristics no other TR setter has.

Escavalier Tier 4 --> UR. Fires exist but checks and counters to them also exist. Besides that, I've seen this mon being used with decent success in TR teams.

That said:

-Keep Volcarona in Tier 1
-Keep Rose in Tier 2
-Keep Aromatisse in Tier 4
-Keep Escavalier in Tier 4
 
One question, are the new drops gonna be usable on the ladder or it's just for tournaments? I just realized they keep being banned on the teambuilder
 

Checkmater

It’s just us kittens left, and the rain is coming
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Framework.. hype?

Badink ayootipop



there's obviously teams I missed so please add to the conversation and help out

Mega Metagross Framework

Memoric's SemiRoom MetaEww


Stax Offensive MetaEww

Xzern Offensive MetaEww


1: Metagross
2: Waters Killer
3: Water Type
4: Fighting Type
5: Fairy:
Fighting Resist and Fire-types check
6: Steels killer, Metagross Check, Tangela Check

Stay tuned for a Mega Blastoise framework, also please post importables of your teams Stax xzern Memoric and talk about what your thoughts on Mega Metagross!

Edit: DUU changes too much each month as far as mon choices go and there's no competitive level play, so this is dead just like the tier is atm..
 
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Platinum God n1n1

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This is one of the first teams I ever made for duu and had a lot of success with it and fits perfectly into your framework as a full room. But havnt used recently as I havnt done duu at all recently.
Full room metagross is legit as it has a lot of bulk at max HP and is stronger with the attack boosting nature.

Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Hammer Arm
- Protect

Tangela @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Sleep Powder
- Rage Powder
- Protect

Jellicent @ Mental Herb
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Scald
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

Diancie @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Diamond Storm
- Moonblast
- Trick Room
- Protect

Hitmontop @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Atk / 120 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 21 Spe
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch
- Mach Punch

Moltres @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Heat Wave
- Protect
- Air Slash
- Roost
 
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Thanks for the framework checkmater, have you or anyone of the council considered making a thread for DUU teambuilding frameworks? Just like the DOU thread
 


As n1n1, I'll also post my squad, which fits perfectly into your framework. Not much to say about it, quite standard team with sub MegaGross, volt switch Raikou to get some momentum, manaphy + togetic which makes manaphy a decent wincon, hitmontop for intimidate support plus fake out and feint and the recently dropped chandelure which can help a lot against TR by turning it off.

Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
- Substitute
- Protect

Raikou @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Hitmontop (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Feint

Togetic @ Eviolite
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Follow Me
- Tailwind
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled

Chandelure @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Heat Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Trick Room
- Protect
 
Have anyone tried this? Once you successfully gain a momentum, this mon goes on a constant rampage (with the right team composition of course). It was sort of inspired from Mega Charizard X.

Salamence @ Lum Berry
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Dragon Dance
- Protect
- Earthquake
 
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fanyfan

i once put 42 mcdonalds chicken nuggets in my anus
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Is megagar banned from doubles uu? If I'm not mistaken, it low enough usage to be duu. Why isn't it mentioned anywhere?
 

talkingtree

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Mega Camerupt 1.5 -> 1
So I've been trying to build a few teams for the new meta and from testing / theorizing I'd like to say that Mega Camerupt is 100% Tier 1-worthy. The only mons that can reliably switch in and beat it are Gastrodon and Jellicent, and Gastrodon has to run a ton of SpD to avoid being 2HKO'd by Earth Power. I could post a whole wall of calcs showing the various niche sets I've attempted until I realized that they don't even help, from Shuca Rhyperior (still OHKO'd if you're running any less than max HP, Drill Run doesn't KO back), to HP Water Heattom (needs modest specs to OHKO), to AV Hydro Pump Dragalge (any prior damage and it's still bopped by EPower), but the gist is that Mega Camerupt is really strong and really bulky. Even running a team with three fire resists including a Mega Blastoise, I was still easily 5-0'd by Camerupt and it felt almost entirely out of my control. It's reliant on TR, sure, but most mons in Tier 1 still have their flaws: Gene is helpless against Fires and Tangela has piss poor special bulk, but that doesn't make them any less metagame-defining.
 

n10siT

Hoopa can do anything!
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big update

I'm in charge of this thread now, thanks to xzern for all of the hard work he did. We are looking for sample teams that better reflect the current state of the metagame, particularly teams built around Mega-Camerupt and Mega-Blastoise. If you have a team that you think is good enough to be a sample, please post it in the thread. Now, onto VR votes! They are in the order of xzern, yoda, talkingtree, myself, and Nido-Rus.

Vivillon 4 -> 3
  • Xzern: this mon is obviously solely utility, and that being said, i dont like that it is killed by a slight wind. 4 is fine

  • Yoda: 3. Really frail and middling speed but tw/sleep/stab hurricane makes up for it somewhat. Still not the best, it’s quite useless once sash is broken.

  • Tree: Abstain, haven’t used this myself or seen enough of it to say whether it’s 3 or 4.

  • N10sit: this was my nom. One of the best sleep users in the tier behind tangela but has the benefit of being middle-tier speed and having tailwind

  • Nido-Rus: 3, sleep+tw is amazing pressure, especially with really accurate sleep powder. Also gets a pretty strong stab in hurricane that gets 2hkos on stuff like tang/gene/mence. Main drawbacks imo are that it isn’t immune to sleep, and has an annoying speed for a frail utility mon
Pachirisu UR -> 4 -> 3
  • Xzern: no i dont like it. Electabuzz has static

  • Yoda: No. Electabuzz is niche enough and a lot better, without even looking at Tangela/Blastoise.

  • Tree: 4 for me, Super Fang is way better than you might think in a meta filled with spread attacks. It would definitely never go higher than this but I can see it having a good place on a few teams.

  • N10sit: no, there’s better redirection in tangela, blastoise, etc, no need for a mon this bad

  • Nido-Rus: Nope, lots of redirection and I’d much prefer electabuzz for better bulk if I wanted mono electric redirection
Thundurus-T UR - > 4 -> 3 -> 2.5 -> 2
  • Xzern: yea 2 it has okay typing and also the big offenses. Nothing to say that hasnt been already said

  • Yoda: 2. 101 speed tier is really good with so many base 100s, and it’s really strong.

  • Tree: I love this mon, 2 is great for now but I could see it going even higher later. There’s so many good flying/water/grass types that this can take on with just tbolt/hp ice and it has a great speed tier for it as well.

  • N10sit: this was only unranked due to a teambuilder glitch and has always been a solid pokemon. I would put it in tier 2 as it’s literally the best electric type in the tier, fast and hits hard, and can run LO, scarf, or specs.

  • Nido-Rus: 2, amazing as an electric that can ohko stoise and outspeed mence.
Volcarona 1 -> 1.5
  • Xzern: volcarona is still in this tier? No dont move it down its borked

  • Yoda: No, it’s still really really good. Unless the opponent has Diancie/Mega Aero or gets you with a random tech it’s pretty much guaranteed to do a tonne of work, if not sweep. Yes TR exists but you can usually stall it out, helped by QD’s Sp Def boosts, as well as just having teammates to deal with it (e.g. Tangela, Taunt/Whirlwind Crobat).

  • Tree: I’ve singlehandedly won too many games, yes even recently, with Volcarona to see it drop. Also, RP Volc + SD Crawdaunt is great and people should try it.

  • N10sit: No, this is one of the best set up pokemon in the tier, there’s a lot less rockslide (the only users are like aero/diancie), and has good speed and power outside of QD. it can also rage powder to take you by surprise

  • Nido-Rus: Keep at 1, volc is still absurd with wg
Mega Abomasnow 1.5 -> 2 -> 2.5
  • Xzern: abomasnow isnt the kind of thing u can just smack on a team, unlike, say, tangela or diancie. U have to build around it for it to work. Teams that use mega abomasnow arent “teams that have mega abomasnow”, but “mega abomasnow teams.” u see what i mean? 2 is good i think

  • Yoda: 1.5. Offers different coverage over Camel so I don’t think that’s reason enough for this to drop. Drops offering more TR setters plays to its advantage, especially since Chandelure pairs well with it.

  • Tree: There are great things that Aboma can do, but recent drops and shifts have not been kind to the abominable snowman. 2 seems more fitting to me.

  • N10sit: I cant get behind moving this down, its just too good, extremely strong, it has ass typing but its super bulky, one of the few mons with decent priority, its just too good for tier 2

  • Nido-Rus: 1.5, blizzard is still amazing and with all the tr it works fine
Hoopa 1.5 -> 2
  • Xzern: no its really good. Its awkward but thats why its in 1.5 and not 1

  • Yoda: 2. Seems really cool in theory with Hyperspace Hole and Ghost typing, but has never really impressed me too much in play. Probably due to combination of middling speed/low phys def/ STABs that don’t hit that much super effectively.

  • Tree: This mon is so strong but so awkward to use so i’m torn. Nothing switches in and it has great special bulk for such a nuke, so unlike Deo-A it can switch in on things like tangela / blastoise with ease. Still I’ve never been blown away so I guess I’m abstaining for now.

  • N10sit: i can see this, you never get to attack with it because it just drops to a foul play or knock off and you dont ohko jellicent and you cant beat (AV) hariyama

  • Nido-Rus: 1.5, still love how much pressure this puts on stuff with stab coverage.
Gastrodon 2 -> 1.5
  • Xzern: fuck yea. Gastrodon is good. Synergizes fantastically with fire types, doesnt need trick room to work, its not passive use life orb pussy

  • Yoda: 1.5. Really good defensively even if it’s not that strong. Nice typing and has recovery, can be a bit passive against certain things but there are also a lot of things it can actually hit.

  • Tree: Whenever I use Gastrodon I find myself clicking Recover like ⅔ of the time just to try to take advantage of its bulk and avoid KOes from double targets. It’s nice and all but really needs a Storm Drain boost to be threatening offensively due to how much it has to invest in bulk.

  • N10sit: i love this pokemon but i don’t think it’s tier 1.5 good. It’s just too niche of a choice since you really only use it when you’re super weak to waters

  • Nido-Rus: 2, not very threatening in a tier full of mons that can hit it hard.
Magnezone 2 -> 2.5 -> 3
  • Xzern: i never liked magnezone. Ok it can beat diancie but what if hes running earth power?? There are better checks to diancie. 2.5

  • Yoda: No. Really nice typing, sub set is really good. Works on TR teams and other teams as well. Needs speed control to function best, but still a solid mon.

  • Tree: 2.5. The epiphany that Thund-T is legal definitely dropped this in my mind, but the ability to beat Diancie + Waters + Flyings in one mon is still pretty swell.

  • N10sit: I could see moving this down to 2.5 but probably not 3, its one of the few electrics in the tier with thundy-t and rotom-h, and one of the few that isn’t immune to ground, so this pokemon is a tough sell in 2. Especially since thats where i think the clearly better thundurus-t should be

  • Nido-Rus: 2.5, still a great electric with useful resists. Camel in the tier +finding out thund-t exists makes it no longer my go-to electric, though
Roserade 2 -> 2.5
  • Xzern: keep in 2 its GOOD. i agree with yoda. Similar position with hoopa i would say

  • Yoda: 2. Has had a poor showing in the DUU tour, but still brings sleep to the table and the ability to destroy both Tangela and Blastoise. Not worse than the other Grasses imo.

  • Tree: 2.5. If this mon had Spore > Sleep Powder it would be so great, but due to its frailty it really can’t afford a Sleep Powder miss ever and has to be used so carefully to take advantage of both its utility and power.

  • N10sit: this thing did horribly in the duu tour. Its speed isnt very good, and its very frail. I don’t think it’s as good as some of the other grass types, so 2.5 for me

  • Nido-Rus: 2, offensive pressure+sleep makes it pretty much always a huge threat. Struggles against faster teams, but really amazing against tr
Aromatisse 4 -> UR
  • Xzern: heck yea

  • Yoda: Yes, not that good and there are a bunch of better setters. If you really want to tech for Taunt just use Mental Herb so it isn’t telegraphed or redirection.

  • Tree: UR this please. It’s “reliable”, or whatever, but it also reliably sucks all momentum on a playstyle where you have limited turns to take advantage of swapped speeds.

  • N10sit: i can get behind this especially with the p2 and chandelure drop, there are just too many good TR setters for this to compete with them

  • Nido-Rus: UR, people are running heavy slam yama for diancie and using aroma instead isn’t gonna help
Escavalier 4 -> UR
  • Xzern: i dont like this mon at all. Steel type that cant switch in to rock. No thanks. But uh 4 i guess its powerful, counters tangela

  • Yoda: No, hits really hard and has a nice speed tier for TR. Extremely solid Tangela check for TR teams and Megahorn hits like a truck.

  • Tree: Leave it in 4 (I’d even potentially see it up to 3). There are so few good steels that this definitely has a niche.

  • N10sit: No, having a strong steel option for Trick Room is pretty good, and this thing hits like a truck. Just because there are an abundance of fires doesn’t mean this can’t do work on a TR team.

  • Nido-Rus: No, I’d honestly prefer moving it up to 3 before moving it down. Hits seriously hard, beats diancie and can ignore/bop tangela
Mega Camerupt 1.5 -> 1
  • Xzern: we should be able to ban things. 1

  • Yoda: Yes. Really only weak against Water-types, otherwise obliterates most things. Needs TR, but not like that’s a bad thing in this tier.

  • Tree: This was my nom, see the post for my reasoning.

  • N10sit: Absolutely. It’s a great fire that beats other fires. It 2hkos its checks, and is extremely hard to beat. It hits just so hard that it’s hard to not put it in tier 1.

  • Nido-Rus: abstain, haven’t seen it used enough in duu


final results:
Vivillon: Tier 4 -> Tier 3
Thundurus-Therian: UR
-> Tier 2
Magnezone:
Tier 2 -> Tier 2.5
Aromatisse:
Tier 4 -> UR
Mega-Camerupt:
Tier 1.5 -> Tier 1
 
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