Duo Destruction II - Round Five

Taking Hippo

Hippopotas @ Eviolite
Trait: Sand Stream
212 HP / 20 Atk / 212 Def / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
~ Earthquake
~ Toxic
~ Slack Off
~ Sleep Talk / Stealth Rock

If you come in Shelmet, you can pretty much Toxic and then watch it die, maybe throw in an Earthquake here or there to weaken it. Sleep Talk is pretty much there for yawn.

If you come in on a Shell Smash, you can tank the Earthquakes and fire off one of your own and still come out on top, Earthquake will 2HKO through Oran Berry after the defense drop, making it a good answer for both of them.
 
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Oh and if anyone is wondering, the other mons that would have worked for round 3 (Ponyta and Drilbur) were Porygon, Bulk up resttalk prankster Riolu, and Curse rest Munchlax.
 
Lileep, similar to Hippo, loses because of Sunny Day boosted Flare Blitz (Sun Boosted Flare Blitz + EQ from Drilbur has a high chance to KO). Porygon can only wins because of Thunder Wave, and it's still a shaky counter.
 
Lileep, similar to Hippo, loses because of Sunny Day boosted Flare Blitz (Sun Boosted Flare Blitz + EQ from Drilbur has a high chance to KO). Porygon can only wins because of Thunder Wave, and it's still a shaky counter.
Yeah I guess but you could recover off most of the damage until Ponyta has to recover the recoil or cast sunny day again to toxic stall no?
 
Yeah I guess but you could recover off most of the damage until Ponyta has to recover the recoil or cast sunny day again to toxic stall no?
156 Atk Ponyta Flare Blitz vs. 228 HP / 220+ Def Eviolite Lileep in sun: 15-18 (57.69 - 69.23%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I think you're right.
 
Taking Ferro
Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Trait: Iron Barbs
Level: 5
EVs: 188 Def / 148 SDef / 164 HP
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 0 Spd
- Gyro Ball
- Curse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Basically if Shelmet is on the field and yawns, then curse and Sleep Talk to set up some curses and at +3 attack and -3 speed it can 2hko shelmet. If Dwebble is on the field and smashes as it comes in, Iron Barbs activates as he X-scissors and Gyro ball takes it out.
 
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GlassGlaceon

My heart has now been set on love
Another case of me trying way too hard
Meh tirtouga and roar riolu work.

Riolu @ Eviolite
Trait: Prankster
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Atk / 196 Def / 116 HP
Impish Nature
- Rock Slide
- Copycat
- Magnet Rise
- Roar

Tirtouga @ Eviolite
Trait: Solid Rock
Level: 5
EVs: 164 HP / 172 Def / 136 Atk / 36 Spd
Impish Nature
- Stone Edge
- Scald
- Aqua Jet
- Stealth Rock


If he yawns i set up SR with tirt , if he sets up with dwebble i just scald, then aqua jet happens and dwebble dies. If tirt falls asleep, sr will have been set up, and I'll play the switch into riolu cuz roar riolu lolololol
and I have rock slide (which helps against larvesta use it) which hits both of them super effectively so yeah gg core +2 EQ will not kill riolu except on a crit.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/lc-54851393 Failed match where i tried to showcase da power
 
Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Trait: Iron Barbs
Level: 5
EVs: 188 Def / 148 SDef / 164 HP
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 0 Spd
- Gyro Ball
- Curse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
+6 0 Atk Ferroseed Gyro Ball (45 BP) vs. 116 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Shelmet: 7-10 (30.43 - 43.47%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
+6 0 Atk Ferroseed Iron Head vs. 116 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Shelmet: 15-18 (65.21 - 78.26%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The only time Gyro Ball hits harder than Iron Head is when Dwebble is +2 or more speed. Given that Gyro ball only has 8 PP, which isn't even enough to kill Shelmet, I think it'd be in your best interest to switch to Iron Head :)
Also, Dwebble doesn't have X Scissors, just a btw. It's a Rock Blast/EQ set.

EDIT: nvm im a stupid tard.
 
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+6 0 Atk Ferroseed Gyro Ball (45 BP) vs. 116 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Shelmet: 7-10 (30.43 - 43.47%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
+6 0 Atk Ferroseed Iron Head vs. 116 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Shelmet: 15-18 (65.21 - 78.26%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The only time Gyro Ball hits harder than Iron Head is when Dwebble is +2 or more speed. Given that Gyro ball only has 8 PP, which isn't even enough to kill Shelmet, I think it'd be in your best interest to switch to Iron Head :)
Also, Dwebble doesn't have X Scissors, just a btw. It's a Rock Blast/EQ set.
You forgot to input the minus speed from Curse, that's why you get a (45 BP) Gyro ball instead of a (150 BP) at +6 (and 112 at +3)
 

iss

let's play bw lc!
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You have to eat a lot of HP Flyings. Crunch doesn't kill Shelmet quite fast enough, and Shed Skin-less Rest is extremely gimmicky, so only 1 point.
Fuck you and your Wooper. 2 points.
Sure. 2 points.
Look, it's a shitty Bronzor! 2 points.
Sure? 2 points.
2 points why did I even pick these mons…
lol 1 point


No bonus points this round because that was too easy.

Wobbyble - 10
Punchshroom - 9
Pen Ink - 8
Axisotaku - 6
Corkscrew - 5
cxinlee - 5
Shouting - 5
Haund - 4
apt-get - 2
GlassGlaceon - 2
The Quasar - 2
Mylo Xyloto - 2
vileman - 2
Kingler12345 - 2
Chieliee - 1
Chromatic Art - 1


Round 5!


Abra @ Life Orb
Timid | Magic Guard
evs: 240 SpA / 200 Spe
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Hidden Power Fighting
move 4: Substitute

Chinchou @ Eviolite
Modest | Volt Absorb
evs: 52 Def / 232 SpA / 224 Spe
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Toxic
 

Stunky @ Eviolite
Ability: Aftermath
Level: 5
EVs: 12 Atk / 188 SDef / 252 HP
Careful Nature
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Taunt


Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 5
EVs: 228 SDef / 36 Atk / 244 HP
IV's: 0 Atk
Sassy Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Gyro Ball

okay so basically vs abra you switch in stunky and just spam pursuit. pursuit can possibly ohko if abra doesn't switch and ohko's if abra switches. if you switch in stunky on hp fighting and abra 3hko's (not guaranteed with sr and 1 layer of spikes, plus you have sucker punch if you know abra can't sub), ferroseed can clean up and chinchou can't beat ferroseed due to leech seed shenanigans.

vs chinchou you switch in ferroseed and spam bullet seed, who can take all of chinchou's attacks. abra can't safely switch in if you keep spamming bullet seed so yeah. gyro ball is a more reliable move vs abra just in case.

240 SpA Life Orb Abra Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 188+ SpD Eviolite Stunky: 6-9 (23.07 - 34.61%) -- 3.27% chance to 3HKO
240 SpA Life Orb Abra Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 188+ SpD Eviolite Stunky: 6-9 (23.07 - 34.61%) -- 60.79% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
240 SpA Life Orb Abra Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 188+ SpD Eviolite Stunky: 6-9 (23.07 - 34.61%) -- 97.44% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes

232+ SpA Chinchou Hydro Pump vs. 228 HP / 244+ SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 3-5 (13.04 - 21.73%) -- possible 5HKO
 
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Reserving Munchlax and he can't do it alone... so adding Vullaby
Replacing Munchlax for Lileep

+

Lileep @ Eviolite
Ability: Storm Drain
Level: 5
EVs: 228 HP / 60 SDef / 220 Def
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Toxic
- Recover
- Stealth Rock

Vullaby (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 76 Def / 76 SAtk / 236 SDef
Bold Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Air Slash
- Roost
- Knock Off

They dont even need positive Sdef natures or change any of the normal evs to survive the gigantic special power that L/O Abra and offencive Chinchou have.

Lileep vs Chinchou
232+ SpA Chinchou Hidden Power Grass vs. 228 HP / 60 SpD Eviolite Lileep: 4-5 (15.38 - 19.23%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
(4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 5)

0 SpA Lileep Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Chinchou: 14-18 (58.33 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 18)

Lileep wins vs chinchous that dont have Ice beam (or volt switch to get away)

Vullaby vs Abra
240 SpA Life Orb Abra Hidden Power Fighting vs. 116 HP / 236 SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 6-8 (24 - 32%) -- 61.55% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
(6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 8)

76 SpA Vullaby Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Abra: 18-24 (94.73 - 126.31%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO
(18, 18, 18, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 24)


Any Vullaby set is usualy a good switch in against Abras with his typing and good bulk.
 
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reserving munchlax and he can't do it alone... so adding vullaby
single munchlax can't win:
t1 munchlax switches in on hp fighting
t2 hp fighting, munchlax ohko's abra
t3 chinchou cleans up with t-bolt

minimum damage roll 2 hp fighting's + tbolt always KO.

also with rocks:
240 SpA Life Orb Abra Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Munchlax: 13-16 (39.39 - 48.48%) -- 12.11% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
sr + spikes:
240 SpA Life Orb Abra Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Munchlax: 13-16 (39.39 - 48.48%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes

resttalk is pretty unreliable too so idk about that but if you get really lucky it can win.
 
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Bronzor loses to Chinchou Hydro Pump x 3 with Stealth Rocks up. This Duo is impossible to counter alone, but easy with 2 Pokes :(

Onix @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 236 Atk / 196 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion

Diglett @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Sucker Punch
- Final Gambit

Soo, Diglett alone can OHKO both Abra and Chinchou, it just needs a safe switch in. Without Hazards up, Onix has a 75% chance to OHKO both by itself, as Sturdy lets it switch in safely on anything. If Onix fails, Diglett can clean up. Diglett can also beat both by itself if it comes in on a Thunderbolt, Toxic, Protect, HP Fighting, etc. There's no possible way for this combo to lose :3
 
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Yeah the closest thing I found was like Torment Calm Mind Murkow, which even then is super gimmicky and doesn't always win :/
 

Electrolyte

Wouldn't Wanna Know
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Is Chinchou / Abra even a core

EDIT: oops, you're right Pen Ink. Sorry, I must have missed that.


Shroomish @ Eviolite
Poison Heal, Calm nature
196 HP / 36 Def / 36 SpA / 196 SpDef
~Giga Drain
~Spore
~Synthesis
~Stun Spore / HP Fire / Leech Seed

So yeah SpDef oriented Eviolite Shroomish can probably handle Chinchou and Abra granted you bring it in at the right time. It can absorb anything Chinchou has and can beat Abra 1 v 1 or even switching in if you make the right predictions.

Chinchou for one can't do shit to Shroomish. The grass-type easily tanks all of Chinchou's attacks and dgaf about Toxic- in fact, coming in on a Toxic pretty much guarantees Shroomish win vs a later Abra.

Abra is a little bit tougher but still possible to defeat. I base my claims off of this calculation:

240 SpA Life Orb Abra Psychic vs. 196 HP / 196+ SpD Eviolite Shroomish: 12-16 (48 - 64%) -- 96.48% chance to 2HKO

As you can see, LO Abra's Psychic will 2HKO most of the time. This makes switching in vs Abra and coming out on top quite difficult and actually impossible if there are hazards up, BUT it is not impossible and actually becomes very possible if Shroomish comes in poisoned by Chinchou's Toxic (chance to 2HKO falls down to 11% after this.) as long as Shroomish switches in with full HP. After that, it becomes a toss up of prediction- iss annoyingly gave abra substitute which kind of limits Shroomish's Spore's effects but if you manage to hit abra twice with Giga Drain or hit it once with Spore Shroomish will win the fight. It should also be noted that, after being hit with one average powered Psychic, Shroomish is guaranteed to survive another Psychic of any power granted it heals itself from Giga Drain, even vs Abra's substitute. So it's not totally unlikely for Shroomish to win this fight.

The case is totally different (in a positive way) in Shroomish vs Abra 1 v 1. As previously stated, Abra needs 2 hits or more to KO Shroomish. However, regardless of tricks between Sub / Spore, Shroomish will always come out on top by spamming Giga Drain, which hits a Psychic'ing Abra with enough force to replenish Shroomish's HP by enough to make Psychic a 3HKO. If Abra goes for the Sub, so be it; it just lost 25% damage and nothing happened to Shroomish.


Now, it is incredibly difficult to fully counter this core with only one Pokemon due to the fact that Chinchou and Abra both have different niches and totally different counters. I will admit that just using Shroomish is a bit of a stretch if you want to reliably deal with 'the core' of Abra and Chinchou, as Shroomish needs to be in tip top health and hazards would totally screw it over. To make things better, simply just smack an Abra counter on with Shroomish. A Dark-type such as Murkrow or Scraggy will do just fine, or a bulky special wall, such as Bronzor, Porygon, or Lickitung. The main point is just to provide Shroomish with a partner that can handle Abra more reliably, as Shroomish can handle the rest by itself.
 
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Is Chinchou / Abra even a core

Also, Wobbyble, requiring no hazards on your own side is not a requisite (though idk it might be logical to make it one?). Hazards only become a determining factor if they are required on the opponent's side in order for the counter to be considered a counter.

That being said, I'd like to reserve Shroomish.
Iss has stated that requiring Rapid Spin support greatly hinder's a counter's ability and possible gain of points. on like the first or second page.
 

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
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Murkrow @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Super Luck
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 20 Def / 20 SpD / 188 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Pursuit
- Brave Bird
- Hidden Power Grass
- Heat Wave


Oddish @ Eviolite
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 5
EVs: 76 Def / 236 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sunny Day
- Solarbeam
- Hidden Power Fire
- Sleep Powder

I'm using Sun in my core again, except I'm the one to set it up. A good Grass-type move can and will totally sweep this core clean, but no offensive Grass-type can effectively switch into Abra and wipe out both Pokemon. Murkrow takes care of that issue easily.

240 SpA Life Orb Abra Hidden Power Fighting vs. 36 HP / 20 SpD Murkrow: 13-16 (56.52 - 69.56%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
236+ Atk Murkrow Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Abra: 20-26 (105.26 - 136.84%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Abra cannot KO Krow even with SR on the field, then Pursuit will finish Abra easily. Abra could escape Pursuit with Substitute, but Chinchou is easy fodder against almost any Grass-type.

232+ SpA Chinchou Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Oddish: 6-7 (31.57 - 36.84%) -- 61.55% chance to 3HKO
236+ SpA Oddish SolarBeam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Chinchou: 26-32 (108.33 - 133.33%) -- guaranteed OHKO
236+ SpA Oddish SolarBeam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Abra: 19-24 (100 - 126.31%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The moment Sunny Day goes up, it's game over, as Solarbeam cleans both Pokemon off the face of the planet. The only problem that can arise is if Abra switches into my Oddish switch-in, however that issue is remedied by simply keeping Krow in on the field and keep Pursuiting, which will catch Chinchou on the switch and leave Abra totally f**ked if it wants to come in. I don't even have much incentive to switch Krow out: Krow's objective is to keep Abra away / dead and keep Chinchou in. Then I sac Krow and bring Oddish in to sweep.
 

apt-get

it's not over 'til it's over
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Is Chinchou / Abra even a core

EDIT: oops, you're right Pen Ink. Sorry, I must have missed that.


Shroomish @ Eviolite
Poison Heal, Calm nature
196 HP / 36 Def / 36 SpA / 196 SpDef
~Giga Drain
~Spore
~Synthesis
~Stun Spore / HP Fire / Leech Seed

So yeah SpDef oriented Eviolite Shroomish can probably handle Chinchou and Abra granted you bring it in at the right time. It can absorb anything Chinchou has and can beat Abra 1 v 1 or even switching in if you make the right predictions.

Chinchou for one can't do shit to Shroomish. The grass-type easily tanks all of Chinchou's attacks and dgaf about Toxic- in fact, coming in on a Toxic pretty much guarantees Shroomish win vs a later Abra.

Abra is a little bit tougher but still possible to defeat. I base my claims off of this calculation:

240 SpA Life Orb Abra Psychic vs. 196 HP / 196+ SpD Eviolite Shroomish: 12-16 (48 - 64%) -- 96.48% chance to 2HKO

As you can see, LO Abra's Psychic will 2HKO most of the time. This makes switching in vs Abra and coming out on top quite difficult and actually impossible if there are hazards up, BUT it is not impossible and actually becomes very possible if Shroomish comes in poisoned by Chinchou's Toxic (chance to 2HKO falls down to 11% after this.) as long as Shroomish switches in with full HP. After that, it becomes a toss up of prediction- iss annoyingly gave abra substitute which kind of limits Shroomish's Spore's effects but if you manage to hit abra twice with Giga Drain or hit it once with Spore Shroomish will win the fight. It should also be noted that, after being hit with one average powered Psychic, Shroomish is guaranteed to survive another Psychic of any power granted it heals itself from Giga Drain, even vs Abra's substitute. So it's not totally unlikely for Shroomish to win this fight.

The case is totally different (in a positive way) in Shroomish vs Abra 1 v 1. As previously stated, Abra needs 2 hits or more to KO Shroomish. However, regardless of tricks between Sub / Spore, Shroomish will always come out on top by spamming Giga Drain, which hits a Psychic'ing Abra with enough force to replenish Shroomish's HP by enough to make Psychic a 3HKO. If Abra goes for the Sub, so be it; it just lost 25% damage and nothing happened to Shroomish.


Now, it is incredibly difficult to fully counter this core with only one Pokemon due to the fact that Chinchou and Abra both have different niches and totally different counters. I will admit that just using Shroomish is a bit of a stretch if you want to reliably deal with 'the core' of Abra and Chinchou, as Shroomish needs to be in tip top health and hazards would totally screw it over. To make things better, simply just smack an Abra counter on with Shroomish. A Dark-type such as Murkrow or Scraggy will do just fine, or a bulky special wall, such as Bronzor, Porygon, or Lickitung. The main point is just to provide Shroomish with a partner that can handle Abra more reliably, as Shroomish can handle the rest by itself.

Just wanted to point out that your set can't win since your pokémon HAS to switch in the opponent, meaning if the opponent leads with abra you MUST take an attack on the switch-in AND take another attack on the turn where you can actually do something. Shroomish can't win since Psychic 2HKOes on the switch
 

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