Running mixed defenses will actually help more with Substitute than running more HP since your Subs will be harder to break. For example, Mega Sableye's Foul Play has an 11/16 chance of breaking 132/0 Emboar's Subs, while it has a 9/16 chance of breaking 28/52 Emboar's Subs. The extra HP is good for recoil though, that's true.
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Pokémon Emboar
- Thread starter Jaguar360
- Start date
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I did some calcs and I'm just not seeing enough of a benefit overall. It isn't just Subs but the extra HP recovery from Leftovers and less recoil from Flare Blitz really goes a much longer way than receiving maybe 2-3% less damage. Also, I'd probably prefer to just invest more in SpD than both to better take Volt Switches and Moonblasts from Clefable, and weak Heatran Lava Plumes.
Here is a Fire/Water/Grass core I've been using in OU lately to quite great success that includes Emboar as one of the stars which I think is worth sharing here.
Emboar @ Life Orb
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Head Smash
- Super Power
- Sucker Punch
Flare Blitz and Super Power are obviously Emboar's go to STABs. Sucker Punch is what I believe makes Emboar hence why I don't go choiced, and allows Emboar to destroy faster threats that often try to revenge kill it like Latios and Gengar. Head Smash is used over other options such as Volt Tackle and Grass Knot because Celebi and Rotom already take out whatever those two moves are used for, while Head Smash hits lots of pokemon that resist Emboar's STABs on the switch in such as Dragonite and Lati@s.
Celebi @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 144 HP / 252 SpA / 112 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Nasty Plot
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
Mono attacking Sub Nasty Pass Celebi. Baton Pass for momentum and giving subs and special attack boosts to team mates. Substitute for making boosting far easier. Nasty Plot for passing and wall breaking. Giga Drain is the mono attack of choice as it can heal off the damage you take while boosting and from subs.
Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Wil-o-wisp
- Pain Split
Pretty standard Rotom-W so won't bother much. Volt Switch for STAB and momentum, Hydro for powerful STAB, wil-o-wisp cripples physical attackers and Pain Split is good for semi reliable recovery and wearing down opponents.
I know they were really brief set descriptions but I'm tired and figured most of you care less about the sets and how the core works so here goes:
Emboar Takes out Chansey, Heatran, Bisharp, Scizor, Mandibuzz, Weavile, Skarmory and Ferrothorn for Celebi. It also covers Celebi’s 4x Bug weakness with its 4x resistance, as well as resisting Dark, Fire and Ice.
In return, Celebi resists Ground, Water and Psychic, and has the ability to take out Azumaril, Rotom - W, Manaphy, Keldeo, Slowbro, Mega Venusaur, Diancie, Hippowdon and more. Has Sub BP to bring in Emboar safely.
Rotom-W finishes the Fire, Grass, Water Core. Rotom handles most of the other pokemon giving Celebi and Emboar grief, including Mamoswine, Tyranitar, Victini and in particular, Mega Pinsir and Talon Flame. It also has a slow Volt Switch to bring in Emboar.
So to tie it all together:
Celebi lures a lot of pokemon that Emboar can come in on (Bisharp, Scizor, Heatran etc) as she subs, and can then baton pass the Sub to Emboar allowing for a free switch in and if the Sub remains in tact usually at least 2 apposing pokemon get killed or severely crippled as shown by the replays from Jaroda's SubPunch Emboar set. As well as provide switch in opportunities for Emboar, Celebi also takes out most of the pokemon that can attempt to wall Emboar like Mega Slowbro and other bulky waters or grounds. Emboar takes out pretty much everything that deals with Celebi and covers a lot of Celebi's weaknesses allowing for Celebi to freely boost and sweep. Lastly Rotom-W acts as a sort of glue in the Fire/Water/Grass core as it handles Bird spam and other threats to these two, as well as providing a slow Volt Switch for Emboar.
I don't really ever keep replays but I can honestly say that this core performs very well in practice and Emboar has proven to be a really strong pokemon. If you get this thing in safely thing die, its that simple. The amount of presence this thing has is enormous as every time it gets onto the field something is gonna get absolutely chunked. Survivability can be a problem at times but I've found that with Healing Wish support Emboar can usually last long enough to take out half a team at least.
Another thing I've noticed about Emboar is that it actually functions extremely well against select HO teams running the core of Hazard Setter, Bisharp and Gengar. As Bisharp is easily switched into and OHKOed with either STAB and Gengar is OHKOed by Sucker Punch. The hazard setter obviously changes but I've seen a lot using Heatran, Ferrothorn and Skarmory all of which are destroyed by Emboar.
Emboar is an extremely powerful pokemon with a surprising amount of versatility particularly item wise, being able to run LO, CB, CS, EB, Lefties, and my friend has even used AV to solid succes. It is unwallable and has a great set of resistances allowing it to synergies with certain pokemon far better than Victini (e.g. Celebi) and from my experience with it I would definitely put it up in B- but C+ is acceptable (though with the new rank descriptions I'm leaning far closer to B-).
Lastly to finish off this post I would just like to state two things Emboar has over Victini that I don't believe have been mentioned yet.
1. People have stated Victini has better speed and bulk, but it is definitely worth mentioning that after just one V-create, Victini becomes slower and less bulky than Emboar.
2. Emboar's shiny is cooler than Victini's
Emboar @ Life Orb
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Head Smash
- Super Power
- Sucker Punch
Flare Blitz and Super Power are obviously Emboar's go to STABs. Sucker Punch is what I believe makes Emboar hence why I don't go choiced, and allows Emboar to destroy faster threats that often try to revenge kill it like Latios and Gengar. Head Smash is used over other options such as Volt Tackle and Grass Knot because Celebi and Rotom already take out whatever those two moves are used for, while Head Smash hits lots of pokemon that resist Emboar's STABs on the switch in such as Dragonite and Lati@s.
Celebi @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 144 HP / 252 SpA / 112 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Nasty Plot
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
Mono attacking Sub Nasty Pass Celebi. Baton Pass for momentum and giving subs and special attack boosts to team mates. Substitute for making boosting far easier. Nasty Plot for passing and wall breaking. Giga Drain is the mono attack of choice as it can heal off the damage you take while boosting and from subs.
Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Wil-o-wisp
- Pain Split
Pretty standard Rotom-W so won't bother much. Volt Switch for STAB and momentum, Hydro for powerful STAB, wil-o-wisp cripples physical attackers and Pain Split is good for semi reliable recovery and wearing down opponents.
I know they were really brief set descriptions but I'm tired and figured most of you care less about the sets and how the core works so here goes:
Emboar Takes out Chansey, Heatran, Bisharp, Scizor, Mandibuzz, Weavile, Skarmory and Ferrothorn for Celebi. It also covers Celebi’s 4x Bug weakness with its 4x resistance, as well as resisting Dark, Fire and Ice.
In return, Celebi resists Ground, Water and Psychic, and has the ability to take out Azumaril, Rotom - W, Manaphy, Keldeo, Slowbro, Mega Venusaur, Diancie, Hippowdon and more. Has Sub BP to bring in Emboar safely.
Rotom-W finishes the Fire, Grass, Water Core. Rotom handles most of the other pokemon giving Celebi and Emboar grief, including Mamoswine, Tyranitar, Victini and in particular, Mega Pinsir and Talon Flame. It also has a slow Volt Switch to bring in Emboar.
So to tie it all together:
Celebi lures a lot of pokemon that Emboar can come in on (Bisharp, Scizor, Heatran etc) as she subs, and can then baton pass the Sub to Emboar allowing for a free switch in and if the Sub remains in tact usually at least 2 apposing pokemon get killed or severely crippled as shown by the replays from Jaroda's SubPunch Emboar set. As well as provide switch in opportunities for Emboar, Celebi also takes out most of the pokemon that can attempt to wall Emboar like Mega Slowbro and other bulky waters or grounds. Emboar takes out pretty much everything that deals with Celebi and covers a lot of Celebi's weaknesses allowing for Celebi to freely boost and sweep. Lastly Rotom-W acts as a sort of glue in the Fire/Water/Grass core as it handles Bird spam and other threats to these two, as well as providing a slow Volt Switch for Emboar.
I don't really ever keep replays but I can honestly say that this core performs very well in practice and Emboar has proven to be a really strong pokemon. If you get this thing in safely thing die, its that simple. The amount of presence this thing has is enormous as every time it gets onto the field something is gonna get absolutely chunked. Survivability can be a problem at times but I've found that with Healing Wish support Emboar can usually last long enough to take out half a team at least.
Another thing I've noticed about Emboar is that it actually functions extremely well against select HO teams running the core of Hazard Setter, Bisharp and Gengar. As Bisharp is easily switched into and OHKOed with either STAB and Gengar is OHKOed by Sucker Punch. The hazard setter obviously changes but I've seen a lot using Heatran, Ferrothorn and Skarmory all of which are destroyed by Emboar.
Emboar is an extremely powerful pokemon with a surprising amount of versatility particularly item wise, being able to run LO, CB, CS, EB, Lefties, and my friend has even used AV to solid succes. It is unwallable and has a great set of resistances allowing it to synergies with certain pokemon far better than Victini (e.g. Celebi) and from my experience with it I would definitely put it up in B- but C+ is acceptable (though with the new rank descriptions I'm leaning far closer to B-).
Lastly to finish off this post I would just like to state two things Emboar has over Victini that I don't believe have been mentioned yet.
1. People have stated Victini has better speed and bulk, but it is definitely worth mentioning that after just one V-create, Victini becomes slower and less bulky than Emboar.
2. Emboar's shiny is cooler than Victini's
I conceived of the same core, as Emboar and Rotom-W have great type synergy as is. As a core I'd give Rotom and Celebi Thunder Wave, as Emboar is just brutal with paralysis support. It's also very brutal giving Rotom Rest and Celebi Aromatherapy, since Toxic can be an issue. I use Jirachi as my wish passer personally, as I like the paraflinching too and its helpful for checking Altaria and Gardevoir.
I was thinking of running a bulky mixed emboar with flare blitz, hammer arm, grass knot and sucker punch. My primary concern however is if a -spe nature will be detrimental over, say, a -def nature. Reason I'm concerned is that I like the idea of emboar tanking a hit from frustrating boltbeam mons like mega man. Can anybody think of a spread that best works towards this goal? I mean I could go pure physical, with wild charge, but grass knot is so appealing...
If you want something bulky that can sacrifice speed, go the SubPunch set. Focus Punch and Sucker Punch ignore speed, so you can better justify a lack of investment. That said, there's no room for Grass Knot on that set, but it's worth it in terms of longevity, and Leftovers helps. I'd advise against a -Speed nature because then Clefable becomes faster than you, and it only takes minimal speed investment to outrun Skarmory for instance. If you want an item that boosts power but doesn't hurt your longevity than try Expert Belt, since Emboar's coverage is pretty good.
Sounds good to me. I think I'll breed both a focus punch one and an expert belt 4 attacks one. I have a bad feeling game freak made sucker punch unavailable through ORAS tutors though which means I'll have to look at what it breeds with first.
You can use an Absol to breed with for Sucker Punch if you want.
And if you really want a bulky mixed set, you can do something like this:
Emboar @ Expert Belt
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Naughty/Lonely Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Hammer Arm
- Grass Knot
- Sucker Punch
This will outspeed uninvested base 70s and the -Def nature shouldn't matter that much since Emboar's defenses aren't that high. You don't really need SpA investment, so the extra 212 EVs can either be dumped in HP or split between HP and the defenses.
I'm not sure how viable this would be though. I'd probably stick for SubPunch for bulk, like Jaroda recommended.
Well, let's verify that, as I haven't done calcs with Expert Belt before.
0 SpA Expert Belt Emboar Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 389-461 (98.7 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Expert Belt Emboar Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Slowbro: 209-247 (53 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Expert Belt Emboar Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 185-218 (44 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Expert Belt Emboar Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 166-197 (42.1 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
60 SpA Expert Belt Emboar Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 100 HP / 0 SpD Mega Swampert: 341-403 (93.1 - 110.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
So yeah, minimal SpA investment can help against Mega Swampert outside of Rain (if it runs 0 Speed, which it shouldn't lol), and Mega Slowbro if it has some SpD investment or uses Calm Mind. But overall, Expert Belt gets the job done as it would require much more investment that isn't worthwhile against a few things.
0 SpA Expert Belt Emboar Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 389-461 (98.7 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Expert Belt Emboar Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Slowbro: 209-247 (53 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Expert Belt Emboar Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 185-218 (44 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Expert Belt Emboar Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 166-197 (42.1 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
60 SpA Expert Belt Emboar Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 100 HP / 0 SpD Mega Swampert: 341-403 (93.1 - 110.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
So yeah, minimal SpA investment can help against Mega Swampert outside of Rain (if it runs 0 Speed, which it shouldn't lol), and Mega Slowbro if it has some SpD investment or uses Calm Mind. But overall, Expert Belt gets the job done as it would require much more investment that isn't worthwhile against a few things.
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