Follow Me / Rage Powder effect on Trick Room

[Mizuhime]

The recently discovered changed Follow Me and Rage Powder mechanics now lower the priority of these moves from +3 to +2, or more notably, lower than Fake Out. In the BW2 Doubles meta, Follow Me and Rage Powder were used to redirect Fake Out for Trick Room users, so they could safely set it up without having to worry about flinching, so what exactly does this mean? In the current meta (pre-Pokebank) we're missing 2 of the best Trick Room setters, Cresselia, and Jellicent. So now we have to ask, how does this change effect the way the game will be played? Are Follow Me and Rage Powder really as effective as they once were? What Trick Room setters will see the most play pre-Pokebank? Are non-Ghost-types still going to be effective as setters?

One of the sets that's expected to be useful is :

Chandelure @ Focus Sash
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Heat Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Protect
- Trick Room

Chandelure has always been used on more offensively oriented Trick Room teams, but the current meta lacks Trick Room users in general. Not only does Chandelure set up Trick Room and have 145 Special Attack, but it also has great typing for the current state of the meta. Ghost-typing gives it an immunity to Fake Out while Flash Fire gives it an immunity to Fire-type attacks, making Chandelure one of the more reliable Trick Roomers at this point.



So what are some other good Trick Room setters? How big is the Follow Me / Rage Powder nerf, are these moves as reliable as they once were? What else does this nerf effect? Let's discuss!

 

[tofucocoa]

i doubt it will be much trouble to get trick room up since you can just double protect if you're using FM+TR, but it'll be a lot harder for trick room to keep its momentum since you can't redirect fake outs, even within trick room.

 

[mattj]

Redirecting Fake Out was rarely the problem with setting up Trick Room. Imprison Chandelure was usually the problem with setting up Trick Room. Dusclops, Dusknoir, Cofagrigus, Jellicent, and many other common TR seteruppers never had a problem with any Fake Out, (bar Scrappykhan). We'll still be able to bypass it with dual target moves and just kill them.

But one change to Rage Powder that I really do think is going to change things is the fact that it doesn't affect Grass mons. People are going to be able to spore right past Amoongus. Lum or Togekiss are probably going to rise in popularity.

 

[noobcubed]

I'm probably not going to bother playing without the Pokebank mons. It just seems a bit pointless when the meta will change again so much in a month

Well anyway, out of the "big four" FM/RP users from last gen:

Jirachi: Is pretty sad now but it's still pound-for-pound the bulkiest Follow Me user out there. It just has a couple more weaknesses. On the other hand, STAB Iron Head is better than it used to be.

Togekiss: Could be one of the metagame's biggest threats. Follow Me + Tailwind + Paraflinch + Dragon killer, all in one neat set. Definitely has more offensive presence now. Will make the most of Heatran not being there while it lasts.

Volcarona: Doesn't really care that Grass-types ignore Rage Powder, they'll run screaming from it anyway. Not much has changed.

Amoonguss: Still annoying as hell, the Spore Immunity thing works both ways. Might conceivably run Sludge Bomb instead of Giga Drain as its attacking move since otherwise it can't do anything to other Grass-types.

And the new kid on the block:

Blastoise: Although Blastoise has a Mega form, for me it seems a bit of a waste to use your one Mega Stone on a damage sponge. nevertheless the move incompatibilities have been fixed, and access to Fake Out AND Follow Me is really great. Add in Water Spout and you have a real threat. Doesn't it get Wide Guard too or did I imagine that?

 

[Audiosurfer]

I'm probably not going to bother playing without the Pokebank mons. It just seems a bit pointless when the meta will change again so much in a month

Well anyway, out of the "big four" FM/RP users from last gen:

Jirachi: Is pretty sad now but it's still pound-for-pound the bulkiest Follow Me user out there. It just has a couple more weaknesses. On the other hand, STAB Iron Head is better than it used to be.

Togekiss: Could be one of the metagame's biggest threats. Follow Me + Tailwind + Paraflinch + Dragon killer, all in one neat set. Definitely has more offensive presence now. Will make the most of Heatran not being there while it lasts.

Volcarona: Doesn't really care that Grass-types ignore Rage Powder, they'll run screaming from it anyway. Not much has changed.

Amoonguss: Still annoying as hell, the Spore Immunity thing works both ways. Might conceivably run Sludge Bomb instead of Giga Drain as its attacking move since otherwise it can't do anything to other Grass-types.

And the new kid on the block:

Blastoise: Although Blastoise has a Mega form, for me it seems a bit of a waste to use your one Mega Stone on a damage sponge. nevertheless the move incompatibilities have been fixed, and access to Fake Out AND Follow Me is really great. Add in Water Spout and you have a real threat. Doesn't it get Wide Guard too or did I imagine that?

Actually fake out + follow me is still illegal (believe me I tried) and it doesn't get wide guard

 

[Hyouton]

Hi guys, now I know the meta is gonna be changing vastly and frequently as it's early days and maybe even more violent in the doubles arena. But this is where I want to start getting into competitive play.
Now I know togekiss is awesome and people loved the paraflinch serene grace abuse. Was just thinking thunder wave and air slash spam would maybe too slow after a few follow me plays to get that trick room or whatever off.
Do you guys think it could be viable to just run
Follow me , Dazzling gleam ( TM that I hope it learns, which makes sense. tbc ), Fire blast and protect.

 

[Mizuhime]

Funny that you mention Jirachi noobcubed another question could be brought up regarding it as a follow me user. With the Nerf to Steel types will Jirachi still be competition for Togekiss when it comes to redirecting attacks? or will Togekiss just reign supreme?

edit; Grass types being immune to the effects of Rage Powder, Amoongus can no long redirect spores

 

[MeteoHydreigon]

my only problem is with taunt and since I mostly use dusclops as my trick room user the only thing I need to worry about is taunt and imprison with I can counter easily with Ammoungus and Rage Powder

 

[Forsety]

In the current meta (pre-Pokebank) we're missing 2 of the best Trick Room setters, Cresselia, and Jellicent.

Chandelure @ Focus Sash
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Heat Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Protect
- Trick Room

Chandelure has always been used on more offensively oriented Trick Room teams, but the current meta lacks Trick Room users in general. Not only does Chandelure set up Trick Room and have 145 Special Attack, but it also has great typing for the current state of the meta. Ghost-typing gives it an immunity to Fake Out while Flash Fire gives it an immunity to Fire-type attacks, making Chandelure one of the more reliable Trick Roomers at this point.



So what are some other good Trick Room setters? How big is the Follow Me / Rage Powder nerf, are these moves as reliable as they once were? What else does this nerf effect? Let's discuss!

This point is kind of moot seeing Heat Wave (much to my chagrin) is also illegal in pre-Pokebank, it's an egg move for Chand however nothing in it's egg group learns it at all, if you want to discuss Chand then you may as well do post Pokebank discussion.

On the subject of Togekiss it has severe 4MSS in Doubles this gen, before it was pretty content to do Protect or Roost/Follow Me/Air Slash/T-Wave. However with the changes this gen, T-Wave is gonna be useless half the time against one of it's strongest counters. Air Slash is still incredibly dangerous and potent, I'm not kidding when I say it's game breaking however has awful coverage with Dazzling Gleam.

Dazzling Gleam is a spread move but no bonus effects to abuse however Togekiss doesn't have much leeway to go offensive with Steel's being big in Doubles and it's job mainly being to sponge, yet it has fantastic coverage with Fire Blast.

So ideally to get the most out of Togekiss you are looking for a partner who can deal with Steel and Electrics effectively which is quite a hard combination to cover since off the top of my head most Ground types tend to be all out offensive, yet Toge's main usage is to help set ups.