Gen 2 [Gen 2 OU] Rhydon + Vap

[Lojh()]

You can't really make (good) extraordinarily new teams in GSC, most teams are going to only differ from others slightly. That's just how it goes these days, and there isn't much inherently wrong with that. I have a stupid amount of teams in my builder, some that I built when I was playing heavily, some of them given to me by friends when I was just learning the meta back in 2017. I remember gravitating to stall very early on, spamming Kou/Cune/Skarm/Forry/Lax/Umb like a bitch, and never really growing out of my comfort zone. The team that really intrigued me to use offensive teams was one that I "built" with the help of a few of my friends back then. The updated version of that team is the subject of this RMT.


Nidoking
- Thief
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Thunder

This Nidoking used to be standard KissKing when the team was made, but a few months after, the triple thief spam team by Cased (rest his soul) took over the entire metagame, and helped me understand why thief nido was so powerful. Nido Lead basically forces a Zapdos or Snorlax switch in / stay in, and both of these pokemon without leftovers and chipped makes vaporeon's job so much easier. Its not an inherent "lead" per se, most of the time atm I find myself using snorlax in the first slot, but the purpose still holds. Thief hitting lax is also perfect because literally every lax these days is the 2atk talk set, and a thiefed lax is easier for zapper to go ham on.

Snorlax @ Leftovers
- Double-Edge
- Curse
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

Lax enables offense, and standard monolax serves as a very good "glue" to hold teams together. The set used to be Curse Eq, because as FOMG told me in 2018, "Every offensive team loses to EQLax," and while that is still true, most players understand that and play around it well. CurseTalk lax is just a solid elec check, nido check, lax check (sometimes), everything else check, etc.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

Zap is IMO the third best pokemon in GSC, behind Snorlax and Cloyster. (people who remember me from way back when I used to vote on the VR, I was always that one guy who's top 4 went Lax/Cloy/Zap/Kou, and got a lot of shit for it) Zap goes stupid on offense, and is a blanket check to so many pokemon in the metagame. On this team, it's keeping up pressure by scaring a lot of pokemon out and forcing lax and kou to rest, essentially being a fountain of free momentum. If im going to be honest I change the hidden power on this guy from ice to water on the daily, in the current meta, golem is super fucking annoying, so if water tickles your fancy, go for it. I like hpice atm simply because the better DV's give more favorable rolls, and zapdos is a mon that needs to stick around for a while.

Cloyster @ Leftovers
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Spikes
- Explosion

I love cloyster. Im going for IB Hp elec cloy because recently ive been liking the offensive pressure past spikes the ice beam + hp elec + boom mindgames can have, giving ways to free chip or switches. When I built the team, Cloy was clamp+screech+spikes+boom just because I was extremely scared of snorlax, but the current set leaves it more flexible. Cloy on this team functions more than just the default spiker, as getting rid of opposing cloy makes vaporeon's life easier, as that is one less faster boom to deal with in the endgame. Also the 10% freeze chance is sweet on ib.

FBM (Rhydon) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Curse
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Roar

In this one random ass pokemon perfect tour I met the one and only choolio, who definitely was a negative role model for my 16 year old self. However, he did teach me a funny nickname for rhydon, and Ive used it ever since. On the original squad, I used cursetar here, but with the uptick in strong thunders being thrown out left and right, having ground types is nice. Also rhydon gets some sweet sweet chip on egg for vap, and is a very very scary pokemon for offense teams to switch into. After choolio beat me in 5 friendlies back to back with jynx/rhydon/machamp/lax/cloy/zap, I understood that rhydon is a threat that many offensive teams in today's metagame are just not prepared for, and the synergy with squishy sweepers (like vap) is very nice.

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Surf
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
- Growth

I have a confession. I got into pokemon because i read that one guide by BORAT years ago. Common story, I know. But vaporeon always intrigued me. It's so different from every other pokemon in the meta, a special setup sweeper. It makes no sense, being weak to the top 5 pokemon in the VR, but it still manages to put in work every game. The team is built around vaporeon, but unlike BORAT's boom offense, this one attempts to cripple vaporeon's counters and reduce the game to one with a favorable outcome. With enough chip, sleeping zapdos is not a safe switch in to vap, neither is lax. Vaporeon is downright scary, and this team attempts to maximise the opportunities vaporeon has to be scary.

 

[Siatam]

Your team has all the trappings of a good GSC offense, but I don't think the pieces fit together perfectly. However, your team structure is unique so I will do my best to keep the overall concept of your team.

Combining Thief Nidoking with Vaporeon is not a strategy I have seen before. Most Vaporeon teams will instead prioritize bait explosions like Eggy or Lix, or prioritize paralysis. Thief Nido does its job of stealing Leftovers for Zapdos and Snorlax very well and is key to your team's identity. No changes.

Playing MonoLax without Pursuit support is a large risk. Some very aggressive offense teams or teams with strong, fast Gengar switchins (think Alakazam, Espeon, Jolteon) may be able to handle the poor matchup, but they are inherently less consistent. In the case of your team, you have functionally 0 counterplay to a Gengar switching in against your Snorlax and spamming Ice Punch. Pretty much for Gengar alone I recommend changing Snorlax's set to:
Snorlax @ Leftovers
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
This set is still a solid "elec check, nido check, and everything else check", though it is worse off against other Snorlax. I think Thunder > Earthquake can also be an interesting option to spread paralysis for Vap / Don as well as snipe opposing Cloy. If you insist on keeping a MonoLax set, I would recommend Body Slam > Double Edge for the aforementioned paralysis support, though this version of the team will be vulnerable to Gengar and very matchup dependent.

All the things you mention about Zapdos in your write up are true: it is a great mixed wall and has a huge amount of offensive pressure. However, I think the real movers and shakers of your team: Vaporeon and Rhydon, could use some more support. For this reason I would recommend changing the Zapdos set to:
Zapdos @ Leftovers
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Hidden Power Ice / Water
- Thunder Wave
- Whirlwind
Since your team does not have the tools to outright remove the roadblocks to Vaporeon and Rhydon, paralysis supports your playstyle of harassing and chipping down their checks. A weakened Zapdos cannot switch into a Vaporeon, but a paralyzed one allows for Vaporeon to Growth on the switch and eliminates the ability to revenge kill. Rhydon also greatly appreciates outspeeding its opponents and paralysis helps it take advantage of its perfect physical coverage and pairs nicely with Rock Slide flinches. Attacking moves are up to your personal preference / daily whims. Whirlwind gives the team more counterplay against opposing EQ Lax while also letting you rack up chip with Spikes shuffling. In my opinion Spikes shuffling is not a consistent win condition without a spinblocker, but on this team Zapper's primarly role is paralysis support.

Since dropping Curse from your Snorlax makes your team weaker against opposing Curse + EQ Snorlax, replacing HP Electric with Toxic is a smart idea. Just forcing an opposing Snorlax to Rest once can give you the turns to regain momentum with one of your phazers. HP Electric is nice against other Cloy, but unlikely to secure KOs outright. Odds are the weakened Cloy will just come in later to threaten a boom against Lax or Vap - a boom you have a difficult time switching into. Toxic also gives you something to do against Starmie who otherwise keeps Spikes perma-off vs HP Elec sets barring a lucky freeze.

Another core part of your team's identity. Rhydon bops unprepared opponents. No changes. Just remember that Rhydon has less overall utility than a Tyranitar and cannot Explode as a last ditch effort like Golem and Steelix. Play it aggressive.

Acid Armor can be an appealing option on Vaporeon, but this team lacks the tools to force an endgame where AA Vap can clean. A second Sleep Talker is also an important asset. No changes.

Overall even in the well explored GSC landscape I think this is a pretty unique team. I hope my recommendations serve you well, let me know how they pan out for you.

 

[Shedinja-43152]

I used your team twice, won one and lost the another.
I won: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2ou-1863196449-ers6sl9c9wqq03fl7248xf5h7ruo6i7pw
I lose: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2ou-1863202534-augd95gapuzm90litb9axn4wpgnh97xpw
The only difference I took Siatam advice to put toxic on Cloyster, but I take out spikes.

 

[Rubiaa]

You can't really make (good) extraordinarily new teams in GSC, most teams are going to only differ from others slightly. That's just how it goes these days, and there isn't much inherently wrong with that. I have a stupid amount of teams in my builder, some that I built when I was playing heavily, some of them given to me by friends when I was just learning the meta back in 2017. I remember gravitating to stall very early on, spamming Kou/Cune/Skarm/Forry/Lax/Umb like a bitch, and never really growing out of my comfort zone. The team that really intrigued me to use offensive teams was one that I "built" with the help of a few of my friends back then. The updated version of that team is the subject of this RMT.


Nidoking
- Thief
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Thunder

This Nidoking used to be standard KissKing when the team was made, but a few months after, the triple thief spam team by Cased (rest his soul) took over the entire metagame, and helped me understand why thief nido was so powerful. Nido Lead basically forces a Zapdos or Snorlax switch in / stay in, and both of these pokemon without leftovers and chipped makes vaporeon's job so much easier. Its not an inherent "lead" per se, most of the time atm I find myself using snorlax in the first slot, but the purpose still holds. Thief hitting lax is also perfect because literally every lax these days is the 2atk talk set, and a thiefed lax is easier for zapper to go ham on.

Snorlax @ Leftovers
- Double-Edge
- Curse
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

Lax enables offense, and standard monolax serves as a very good "glue" to hold teams together. The set used to be Curse Eq, because as FOMG told me in 2018, "Every offensive team loses to EQLax," and while that is still true, most players understand that and play around it well. CurseTalk lax is just a solid elec check, nido check, lax check (sometimes), everything else check, etc.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

Zap is IMO the third best pokemon in GSC, behind Snorlax and Cloyster. (people who remember me from way back when I used to vote on the VR, I was always that one guy who's top 4 went Lax/Cloy/Zap/Kou, and got a lot of shit for it) Zap goes stupid on offense, and is a blanket check to so many pokemon in the metagame. On this team, it's keeping up pressure by scaring a lot of pokemon out and forcing lax and kou to rest, essentially being a fountain of free momentum. If im going to be honest I change the hidden power on this guy from ice to water on the daily, in the current meta, golem is super fucking annoying, so if water tickles your fancy, go for it. I like hpice atm simply because the better DV's give more favorable rolls, and zapdos is a mon that needs to stick around for a while.

Cloyster @ Leftovers
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Spikes
- Explosion

I love cloyster. Im going for IB Hp elec cloy because recently ive been liking the offensive pressure past spikes the ice beam + hp elec + boom mindgames can have, giving ways to free chip or switches. When I built the team, Cloy was clamp+screech+spikes+boom just because I was extremely scared of snorlax, but the current set leaves it more flexible. Cloy on this team functions more than just the default spiker, as getting rid of opposing cloy makes vaporeon's life easier, as that is one less faster boom to deal with in the endgame. Also the 10% freeze chance is sweet on ib.

FBM (Rhydon) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Curse
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Roar

In this one random ass pokemon perfect tour I met the one and only choolio, who definitely was a negative role model for my 16 year old self. However, he did teach me a funny nickname for rhydon, and Ive used it ever since. On the original squad, I used cursetar here, but with the uptick in strong thunders being thrown out left and right, having ground types is nice. Also rhydon gets some sweet sweet chip on egg for vap, and is a very very scary pokemon for offense teams to switch into. After choolio beat me in 5 friendlies back to back with jynx/rhydon/machamp/lax/cloy/zap, I understood that rhydon is a threat that many offensive teams in today's metagame are just not prepared for, and the synergy with squishy sweepers (like vap) is very nice.

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Surf
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
- Growth

I have a confession. I got into pokemon because i read that one guide by BORAT years ago. Common story, I know. But vaporeon always intrigued me. It's so different from every other pokemon in the meta, a special setup sweeper. It makes no sense, being weak to the top 5 pokemon in the VR, but it still manages to put in work every game. The team is built around vaporeon, but unlike BORAT's boom offense, this one attempts to cripple vaporeon's counters and reduce the game to one with a favorable outcome. With enough chip, sleeping zapdos is not a safe switch in to vap, neither is lax. Vaporeon is downright scary, and this team attempts to maximise the opportunities vaporeon has to be scary.

I love Rhydon and i think its underrated, same with vaporeon, i just think u need more synergy on the team