SPOILERS! General Pokémon Anime Discussion

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Guess we know what nebby is evolving into (rip lunala you were too cool for the anime anyway ;-;) and Lillie takes her place as Ash's primary female companion with the rest of them sitting in the background. Sad they didn't toss in a teaser for a future Pokémon ash might catch. Glad we're getting into an overarching story (funny enough at a similar time when the story started to kick in the video games after island 2). Hope we get less Slice of life filler episodes and more plot relevant ones moving forward.

Not much to say about ash wearing the new z-ring but if he gets it in the first few episodes might drop some hints for its functions in the games.
 
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In regards to today's episode, it was nice. The battles were well animated and the best of SM, they looked as good as the best XY battles.

Brock beat Kiawe rather easily with his Mega Steelix. The Ash/Misty battle was a lot closer but Pikachu's Z move saved the day. We also had a short fun battle of Misty using Psyduck against both Lana and Mallow's pokemon.

Ash also said Misty/Brock should visit Alola sometime, but I'm not sure if that was just a throwaway line since Ash always asks old friends to meet him again. As we know from the preview they're not in the next episode, and not on the new Ultra Sun/Moon anime poster, so if Misty/Brock ever appear again it'll probably just be another short 2-ep cameo probably later on...if they do at all.
 
Guess we know what nebby is evolving into
Hm?? Only because Solgaleo is in the background? If you watch the preview for E44 this Cosmog isn't the same Cosmog game!Lillie had. It's more like the Cosmog we get in the post-game if we take Solgaleo or Lunala to the Altar of the Monne or Sunne respectively and they do some alien shit and give birth to it. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Cosmoem wound up having an evolution other than Solgaleo & Lunala. Rockroff got one so that's not off the table.

Oh, and Lusamine & CO will be in next episode and it seems professor Burnet is working with the Aether Foundation. I'm intrigued.
 

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Gym Battle Episode:
I kind of figured that Kiawe would lose against Brock and Ash would win against Misty simple because if Kiawe wins than Brock should award him with the Boulder Badge (which is pointless), meanwhile Ash already has the Cascade Badge so doesn't matter if he wins...

Oh... well I guess it makes for a nice souvenir.

There's two other things I noticed in the episode. First: shirtless Brock, a nice callback to Brock's Gen I sprite where he was shirtless (he even did the pose he was in):

Also, remember when I said Jigglypuff would be great for a gag series that Alolan has been like:

:D THEY'RE PERMANENTLY BRINGING BACK JIGGLYPUFF! So, now the question is what plans they have for it. Like stick it to being a gag ormaybe actually have someone finally catch it giving some closure (Lillie seems like the most likely).

Alola Season 2:
In addition to the poster here's two trailers:

ABOUT TIME! Hm, so it looks like they're going to have Ash bond with Cosmog in the anime, and Lillie & Lusamine's relationship isn't strained, at least not on Lusamine's part (does Lillie dodging her mom's hug hint of something? While we never fully went into how Lusamine treated Lillie & Gladion during her Ultra Beast insanity, before they ran away we knew she was overbearing to them. So in the anime it would make sense that, at least on Lusamine's side, she'd still be doting on Lillie. Though Lillie is showing resistance so who knows how strained the relationship is at on Lillie's part, at the very least Lillie doesn't seem to be living directly with Lusamine. And of course we have to wonder if Lillie's phobia of touching Pokemon has to do with something Lusamine did).

Looks like all the Aether Foundation is going to appear plus Burnet (not surprising she's working with the Aether Foundation, in the games Burnet knew from Lillie they were up to no good but the anime is taking place in an alternate earlier point). Though I'm surprised they're having all the Aether Foundation appear before having at least Plumeria show up.

So the poster reveals Ash has the new Z-Ring and is lacking Lunala. In the trailer we see the anime's alter is the Alter of the Sunne, so the lake is probably the Lake of the Moone. My guess is there's currently a Solgaleo in existence who's going to become important to the plot while the Cosmog that Ash befriends will evolve into Lunala. I'm wondering if this all has to do with the plot points in USUM?
 
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Also if you notice on the poster for the new arc, both Rowlett/Litten are mysteriously absent from it, whereas they show Ash's Lycanroc, Lana's water starter, and the other characters pokemon. I get the feeling they're not there to avoid spoiling Rowlett and Litten's evolutions. if Ash gets Cosmog instead of Lillie he'd likely keep him in his bag, so Rowlett can't stay in their anymore either.

We're about a year into SM now so this is around the point Ash's starters usually evolve once in every past series, so I wouldn't be surprised if they do soon. My big fear for SM is they'd repeat BW, where Ash's starters barely evolve and they remain weak all saga. Ash's Unova starters were so disappointing and handled poorly, I hope the SM starters don't suffer that treatment.
 
Also if you notice on the poster for the new arc, both Rowlett/Litten are mysteriously absent from it, whereas they show Ash's Lycanroc, Lana's water starter, and the other characters pokemon. I get the feeling they're not there to avoid spoiling Rowlett and Litten's evolutions. if Ash gets Cosmog instead of Lillie he'd likely keep him in his bag, so Rowlett can't stay in their anymore either.

We're about a year into SM now so this is around the point Ash's starters usually evolve once in every past series, so I wouldn't be surprised if they do soon. My big fear for SM is they'd repeat BW, where Ash's starters barely evolve and they remain weak all saga. Ash's Unova starters were so disappointing and handled poorly, I hope the SM starters don't suffer that treatment.
BW likely did this because his team was (theoretically) on rotation. By the end like mid point of the series he had 3 fully evolved pokemon, 3 mid stage pokemon, 3 first stage pokemon and Pikachu.
On paper letting the more awkward pokemon evolve lets them get a bit more emphasis and let them shine a bit. In practice....w-well anyway, they'll probably evolve. Especially since the final evolutions this time have so much personality to show off; i'm sure doofus sniper and heel wrestler are things the animation staff could have a lot of fun with.
 
BW likely did this because his team was (theoretically) on rotation. By the end like mid point of the series he had 3 fully evolved pokemon, 3 mid stage pokemon, 3 first stage pokemon and Pikachu.
On paper letting the more awkward pokemon evolve lets them get a bit more emphasis and let them shine a bit.h.
Even so it didn't work well because the starters always get the most screentime anyway, half of Ash's BW captures never did anything out of a small handful of episodes. Unova is the only saga in a long time Ash had no fully evolved starter, I'm not even sure why they couldn't evolve Snivy at least once. It's the same problem people had with his Johto team back in the day, as they were handled poorly in their respective saga and the writers didn't get things right with Ash's team till AG started.

Also Ash getting all 3 starters has never worked well, outside of maybe Kanto and that's really only cause of nostalgia. I prefer when Ash only gets one starter, or maybe two at the most like DP or SM. And even then it's not perfect as Torterra was completely shafted for Infernape as DP progressed, so the writers couldn't handle it properly either way. Maybe this time around Ash with two starters they can get equal screentime without one overshadowing the other like back in DP?

I'm glad Lana got the water starter this time, usually the writers never give the non-female lead from the games a starter as only May/Dawn/Serena got starters while Misty and Iris didn't. But I guess Lana being a water pokemon trainer and the starters evo's being so girly this gen, it made sense for her to get it over Ash. It's kind of funny because they wouldn't even give Misty Totodile back in Johto even though she battled Ash for it, simply because back then the writers didn't want a supporting character like Misty to get one of the main starters of the gen.
 
Even so it didn't work well because the starters always get the most screentime anyway, half of Ash's BW captures never did anything out of a small handful of episodes. Unova is the only saga in a long time Ash had no fully evolved starter, I'm not even sure why they couldn't evolve Snivy at least once. It's the same problem people had with his Johto team back in the day, as they were handled poorly in their respective saga and the writers didn't get things right with Ash's team till AG started.
Right this is what I was alluding to with the "in practice..." bit
90% of the time it was the starter show featuring: the starters
after that it was usually scraggy.

And then of course Season N brought back charizard so it got even worse for the non-starter reserves.
 
I got the impression Ash got so many captures in BW and all the starters because they were trying to do a Kanto throwback, same reason Iris/Cilan dynamic with Ash sort of mirrored the original trio's and TR had that lame "serious" mode like they were for like the first 10 Kanto episodes.

Notice how in every other saga Ash only captures 5-6 pokemon or stops when he gets his full team? It's only Kanto and Unova that he caught so many pokemon in, the former because it was the first season and they had no idea the anime would be a success or go on a long time, and BW was like some faux-Kanto throwback at first when it started. And since BW proved how much this formula doesn't work anymore, they abandoned it.

XY felt like a mix of AG and DP combined together, and now SM is a new direction for the series. Before SM started people feared it would be BW 2.0 in terms of Ash and his pokemon again, but thankfully that's not the case.
 
Gym Battle Episode:
I kind of figured that Kiawe would lose against Brock and Ash would win against Misty simple because if Kiawe wins than Brock should award him with the Boulder Badge (which is pointless), meanwhile Ash already has the Cascade Badge so doesn't matter if he wins...
The badges are props and Kiawe says he will come back to get the real one.

Also, at the end, Kukui tells Professors Oak that he wants to bring the Pokémon League culture to Alola, and Samson says they had to be creative with badges.

Also, about the Brock pose, Misty also has hers:



---

I want to just say I watched the second special episode, and that was awesome. From the all-out battles to the original games soundtrack. everything is perfect imo. Really shows how much more fluid SM animation is.
 
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Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
I like how Misty's Gyarados is way bigger, stronger, and more powerful than Lysanders from XYZ. His almost seemed small, but Misty's was huge, and ironically made Steelix seem smaller by comparison.

I hope Misty and Brock get to evolve their classic Pokemon- Golduck and a Golem would be nice, and for god sakes is it just me or does it seem like Brock should have Aerodactyl? Old Amber is literally in pewter city.

Lastly, anyone going to comment on how cool the gym itself is? It's awesome how they focused on the friendship between Brock and Misty, without ash. Sharing a gym, no mention of siblings or family, just a focus on them, it was like Brock posed like a rockstar. And Misty posed like A cheerleader. Also, Misty is confident and Brock is independent, finally they are not benchwarmers.

Misty turned her gym battle into a full on Stadium, let's hope there are surprise appearance in the Ultra Sun and Moon, afterall they had Blue/Green and Red in Sun and Moon, and it seems like the fact they brought in Jigglypuff and announced the new poster right during the time the episode was released is a hint they will be making a throwback to Kanto later on.

P.S. Jigglypuff will evolve because Sun/Moon and her Moon Stone requirement?
Now, we won't have to worry if she is relevant enough to be included in the next Smash Bros!
 
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SM 44
- The Anime finally confirmed Solgaleo's and Lunala's status as Ultra Beasts.
- Lusamine is actually a LOT nicer and Lilie comes off as kinda bratty and shallow imo. What a twist.
- Burnet & Kukui aren't a couple yet in the anime.
- Protect this smile at all costs
 
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SM 45
- The Anime finally confirmed Solgaleo's and Lunala's status as Ultra Beasts.
- Lusamine is actually a LOT nicer and Lilie comes off as kinda bratty and shallow imo. What a twist.
- Burnet & Kukui aren't a couple yet in the anime.
- Protect this smile at all costs
But still, you have to admit, Lusamine really should learn to keep her hands to herself.
 

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SM 45
- Lusamine is actually a LOT nicer and Lilie comes off as kinda bratty and shallow imo. What a twist.
- Burnet & Kukui aren't a couple yet in the anime.
- Protect this smile at all costs
So it sounds like the anime is suppose to be taking place before the events of Sun & Moon. So I'm going to guess they're going to do what they did with Unova and Kalos: set everything up, do the entire League (or Island Challenge), then proceed to do a quick summary of the game's plot as the last season. So at some point the Aether Foundation will get Nebby to experiment on and Kukui and Burnet will at least become a couple. This will also mean whatever they do in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon they can include, maybe even set it up a bit too.

Don't know how I feel about that approach. On one hand it assures they can include everything the story for that generation has to offer while giving the characters involved time to develop without the story pushing them along/aside. But the problem is that makes the majority of the saga feel like filler and doesn't have Ash going through the same experience as the player.

Though it doesn't have to be like that, especially for Alola. We have Team Skull but are doing nothing with them, but for now they could have them acting as the main antagonists before the game's story comes into play. And as always they're ignoring certain characters and just in general the notable locations in the games.


In the Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon Thread we had a quick back-and-forth and mentioned how the manga stayed really loyal to the games; rarely adding in their own character or notable locations unless they feel it would flesh some things out. Now seeing this, the anime feels like it's AFRAID to follow anything in the games since GF can switch things up in the third version/second paired games (not to mention remakes). They want to play it super safe, dragging things out not for development reasons but trying to wait for the next games to be released so they can see the changes/additions done to the story and then do their version of the game's story.
 
It's actually episode 44, not 45.

So it sounds like the anime is suppose to be taking place before the events of Sun & Moon. So I'm going to guess they're going to do what they did with Unova and Kalos: set everything up, do the entire League (or Island Challenge), then proceed to do a quick summary of the game's plot as the last season. So at some point the Aether Foundation will get Nebby to experiment on and Kukui and Burnet will at least become a couple. This will also mean whatever they do in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon they can include, maybe even set it up a bit too.

Don't know how I feel about that approach. On one hand it assures they can include everything the story for that generation has to offer while giving the characters involved time to develop without the story pushing them along/aside. But the problem is that makes the majority of the saga feel like filler and doesn't have Ash going through the same experience as the player.

Though it doesn't have to be like that, especially for Alola. We have Team Skull but are doing nothing with them, but for now they could have them acting as the main antagonists before the game's story comes into play. And as always they're ignoring certain characters and just in general the notable locations in the games.


In the Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon Thread we had a quick back-and-forth and mentioned how the manga stayed really loyal to the games; rarely adding in their own character or notable locations unless they feel it would flesh some things out. Now seeing this, the anime feels like it's AFRAID to follow anything in the games since GF can switch things up in the third version/second paired games (not to mention remakes). They want to play it super safe, dragging things out not for development reasons but trying to wait for the next games to be released so they can see the changes/additions done to the story and then do their version of the game's story.
And I said the anime was happening before the events in SM.
 
Ah, long time since... but hmm...

This gets me into thinking, if Lusamine isn't as ax-crazy as she is in Sun/Moon, then for what purpose was Type: Null created? Gladio still mentioned that Ultra Beasts are Null's main target or at least enemy to it. The Legend of Ultra Wars Lillie mentioned is well, past legends. I feel like there are something Lusamine or the Aether is still hiding.

Then again, we haven't seen how Lusamine acts to Gladio, it may as well be different than how she reacted embarrassingly to Lillie. Or where or how did Type: Null come from anyway, we don't know yet if it and Gladio are majorly connected to the Aether.

Sauboh never changes. But it was good when Lusamine shot him down and has leash on him.

Also, in the stinger, Nebby went out from the bag. Who knows if it'll still be anti-Rowlet?
 
Ah, long time since... but hmm...

This gets me into thinking, if Lusamine isn't as ax-crazy as she is in Sun/Moon, then for what purpose was Type: Null created? Gladio still mentioned that Ultra Beasts are Null's main target or at least enemy to it. The Legend of Ultra Wars Lillie mentioned is well, past legends. I feel like there are something Lusamine or the Aether is still hiding.

Then again, we haven't seen how Lusamine acts to Gladio, it may as well be different than how she reacted embarrassingly to Lillie. Or where or how did Type: Null come from anyway, we don't know yet if it and Gladio are majorly connected to the Aether.

Sauboh never changes. But it was good when Lusamine shot him down and has leash on him.

Also, in the stinger, Nebby went out from the bag. Who knows if it'll still be anti-Rowlet?
Hmm, good question. Type:Null is 100% connected to the Aether Foundation; there's just no other way for it to even exist. I still think Lusamine is pulling up a facade, I'm just surprised she's not being so obvious about it. I mean, the Lusamine we know from the games wouldn't have allowed Ash to keep Cosmog so easily but anime!Lusamine did.

And I don't really like anime!Wicke btw, she just feels so extra.
 
To be fair, game Wicke is all caring, so it's interesting to see this part of her personality displayed. Lusamine in the games have already lost a bolt or two in her head, so maybe this all happened before. Also, maybe she's putting a facade not to argue with Ash where she obviously is at a disadvantage. But her fondness of Lillie is diametrically opposite to what she feels in the games. In the games, she used to sleep with Lillie, until she lost the interest in her because of Nihilego. Maybe that's what we're going to see, while Ash and Lillie get protective of Nebby.

This Nebby does not want to stay in the bag while awaken. That's the Nebby we know and love. The anti Rowlet.
 

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Let's not forget, we don't know how Lusamine treated her kids. All we know is that after Gladion ran away with Type: Null she began treating Lillie differently to where Lillie said she wouldn't have known what to do if Wicke wasn't there to comfort her. Now on one hand you could take that to meaning Lusamine was cruel to her... but if I think I know where the anime is going with this I agree with it's perspective.

Lusamine dressed Lillie like a Nihilego. Lusamine is obsessed with Nihilego. So, why would Lusamine dress someone she hates as something she likes? Instead of being cruel, I can imagine after Gladion left that Lusamine became quite obsessive over Lillie. Remember what lead to Lusamine's insanity: losing her husband. For her son, who she showed with affection as much as she did with Lillie, to not only leave but also steal from the Aether Foundation, probably did a heavy hit on her already damaged psyche. She doesn't want her family to leave her, but two did. She now has one left. Her daughter. And she's going to do everything she can to make sure she doesn't (not helping Lillie is that she probably looks like what Lusamine did when she was a kid).

And that's the crux of it: Lusamine was probably trying to make Lillie into a mini-Lusamine. She didn't physically abuse her, but mentally did probably by giving her an inferiority complex. If Lillie did something Lusamine didn't approve of she'd criticize and cold to her, quite a devastating thing for a mother to do to a child. Lusamine alone choosing what clothes for Lillie to wear, be it a Nihilego or not, is meant to show she was trying to remove Lillie's sense of self and mold it into what she wanted her to be. Of course, with how obsessive she was, Lillie doing something Lusamine liked was probably also as bad. How? Well, the anime just showed us: she was over-affectionate, getting close and personal, invading Lillie's personal space. In the anime Lusamine doesn't only bear hug Lillie but also pets her, like she's a dog.

Now in the games its implied Lusamine kept her at Aether Paradise, so if Lusamine is still insane why did she let Lille go to the Pokemon School in the anime? Well, there's still something we don't know about anime Lillie: why she's afraid to touch Pokemon. I can't see her phobia of touching Pokemon isn't connected to something Lusamine did, accidentally or intentionally. Eitherway, Lusamine's goal is to protect all Pokemon her love so that's what she'd want from Lillie, though you can't quite do that if you're afraid to the things you're suppose to be protecting. Lillie, probably wanting to get away from her obsessive mother, might have convinced Lusamine to send her to Pokemon School so she could learn about Pokemon and maybe cure herself of touching Pokemon. For Lusamine the Pokemon School is a means to an end, she needs Lillie to get over her phobia and if she can do so while also learning more about Pokemon than it couldn't hurt. Once she's done and is able to touch Pokemon again she can than go back to molding Lillie, only a slight setback.

And obviously this wouldn't conflict with Type: Null's creation. From what I understood of the timeline, after Mohn's disappearance Lusamine ordered the construction of the Type: Fulls to combat the Ultra Beasts that took her husband. As experiments went on, Lusamine kept exploring the Ultra Space searching for Mohn and eventually got herself infected by their poison. As she started to come under the influence of the toxin, the Type: Full project starting failing and eventually Lusamine, who starting to become obsessive over the Ultra Beasts, decided to cancel the project and put the now Type: Nulls on ice.

As for Lusamine letting Ash keep Nebby, all in due time. While she'd like Nebby now, she probably doesn't need it now. Keep up her good and kind facade, Kukui and the Pokemon School will keep an eye on Nebby for her. She either thinks eventually Ash will give Nebby to the Aether Foundation because he'd be convinced it would be for the best for Nebby or, if she needs to take it by force, she'll just have someone take it that can't be traced back to the Aether Foundation (which is where Team Skull comes in). Lusamine's insane but she's also a bit of the chessmaster, she has things planned and as of right now everyone is playing her game.

And Wicke always felt extra, hoping Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon adds to her character but overall her character felt like it was meant to fill in gaps: she's the one who comforted Gladion and Lillie when Lusamine went insane (and might have helped/let them escape), she most likely took over as Branch Chief after Faba was demoted for taking advantage of Lusamine's insanity, and she's the contact within the Aether Foundation that the International Police has.
 
Agreed. I just went to full skepticism but it is highly improbable that the writers just scrap Null's canon backstory, but I have a feeling Lusamine is well... innocent but too intrusive. She just doesn't understand others' privacy, which is could just seem so affectionate, but is a possibly very solid foundation to her in-game insanity. To me it looks like she might be "innocent" this time, until an unseen fuse in her mind breaks, she's just not insane yet.

Anyway, have to admit a bit, I actually like anime Lusamine. I could relate her to my own mom at times (although without any hint of obsession).
I don't know about Lillie, though, she is actually somewhat bratty and not have any hint of Lusamine forcing her to wear that pseudo-UB cosplay dress. They seem to have circling flaw dynamic. Lusamine could possibly still making her mini-clone, unconsciously or just hid it extremely well (then again, she's also quite clever), or not at all.

And why did Gladio left the house again? IIrc He only told Lillie he needs "to be stronger" as opposed to the game where he's sick of Lusamine, but he could as well actually stole that Null and have reason he didn't tell, one possibility is knowing Lusamine's true face before Lillie and their butler did. Their butler seems concerned and wanted him to return too, but we don't know Lusamine's direct opinion.

Will have to wait how the backstory of this family unfolds in the anime. True, it could be that the writer is trying to tread carefully.

Anyway, excited to see Nebby's antics next week. I'll try not to get late to watching it, this will be even more hilarious than just getting out from the bag.
 

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D'aww.

(I declare this Backpackshipping.)

Lillie is afraid to touch Nebby:

(Maybe this is one reason why Lillie kept Nebby in her tote bag... you know, aside hiding it from the Aether Foundation.)

Jigglypuff is indeed in Alola, and is up to its old shenanigans:



(And now I demand for a Jigglypium Z.)

Also looks like Nebby's teleportation will be a running gag.
 
Errr... I was too late to actually watch it, but did anyway....

Nebby actually tried to murder Kaki with volcano.
Anyway, nothing much to see aside of teleport gags and Nebby's character introduction and confirmation of 'puff's Sing gag staying in Alola. Too bad the teleport gag is pretty short, I felt like they could be made into more laughs. But well, it looks like in next episode, we will have have Sauboh serving the noble role as our butt monkey Aether Foundation. Seems like we are going for introductions to things.

And Jessie could've just have Mimikyu murder Pikachu while they're still distracted by the sun and get double the victory, although to be fair they're going to be teleported back anyway. But still, it is somewhat an opportunity-waste What an Idiot moment. Sighs.

And too bad, this Nebby isn't as bag-hating, although shipping with Rowlet is probably already done by now.



Also, I wonder what kind of face Lillie did. Everyone seemed to have their Speed down harshly when she did that....
 
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