Gimmicks and Their Role in NU

[Alonsoforever]

Charizard @ Power Herb
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spa/ 252 Spd
Timid Nature
-Fire Blast
-Solarbeam
-filler
-filler

Similar to the last set. Bluff scarf, lure in water types, push their shit in. I tried to set up a shell smash with costs against this thing. It didn't end well.

Setting up a Carracosta against a Charizard is a really bad move unless you are cetain the Charizard is choice-locked into Air Slash or Fire Blast, as Charizard almost always carries Hidden Power Grass, and that's enough for beating Costa. I don't know why that should be used over Life Orb with Hidden Power Grass.

252 SpA Charizard SolarBeam vs. 104 HP / 152 SpD Alomomola: 332-392 (66.8 - 78.87%)
252 SpA Life Orb Charizard Hidden Power Grass vs. 104 HP / 152 SpD Alomomola: 252-299 (50.7 - 60.16%)

Also, never try setting up Shell Smash agaisnt a Charizard:

252 SpA Life Orb Charizard Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Carracosta: 374-445 (129.41 - 153.97%

The difference of power is not that important, and after using SolarBeam once you are left with a Charizard without Life Orb and a bad coverage Grass move.

 

[atomicllamas]

Setting up a Carracosta against a Charizard is a really bad move unless you are cetain the Charizard is choice-locked into Air Slash or Fire Blast, as Charizard almost always carries Hidden Power Grass, and that's enough for beating Costa. I don't know why that should be used over Life Orb with Hidden Power Grass.

It is a lure, kind of like expert belt mons. LO gives it away that you are not choice locked and may be carrying HP grass, where as power herb makes you seemed scarf or specs, and you actually lure costa in. Power Herb SB also hits way harder than expert belt HP grass (although that would probably still be an option).

 

[The Leprechaun]

It is a lure, kind of like expert belt mons. LO gives it away that you are not choice locked and may be carrying HP grass, where as power herb makes you seemed scarf or specs, and you actually lure costa in. Power Herb SB also hits way harder than expert belt HP grass (although that would probably still be an option).

^^^^What this man said.

 

[AquaAdmin]

that lure charizard amg
For filler, I'd suggest Air Slash for coverage/STAB and most likely dragon pulse. It's a bit standard, but Charizard has such a suck special movepool. You could run roost, but lures don't really have time to heal. They kill counters and die, most of the time.

 

[soulgazer]

that lure charizard amg
For filler, I'd suggest Air Slash for coverage/STAB and most likely dragon pulse. It's a bit standard, but Charizard has such a suck special movepool. You could run roost, but lures don't really have time to heal. They kill counters and die, most of the time.

Actually, Hidden Power Grass in the 4th moveslot would be ideal: What are you going to do if your opponent has more than two Rock-or Water-type? Power Herb Solarbeam is fantastic if your opponent only has one decent check to Zard, and it might seem bad to have two Grass-type moves on the same set, but Dragon Pulse simply doesn't bring enough coverage to be used over a more reliable Grass-type move in Hidden Power Grass if something happen (such as your opponent switching out predicting you will switch out, for example.)

 

[Shuckleking87]

Actually, Hidden Power Grass in the 4th moveslot would be ideal: What are you going to do if your opponent has more than two Rock-or Water-type? Power Herb Solarbeam is fantastic if your opponent only has one decent check to Zard, and it might seem bad to have two Grass-type moves on the same set, but Dragon Pulse simply doesn't bring enough coverage to be used over a more reliable Grass-type move in Hidden Power Grass if something happen (such as your opponent switching out predicting you will switch out, for example.)

Don't rely on charizard to take out two pokes that are rock or water then... I use power herb with fire blast air slash and flamethrower ( depending if you want a move that hits alot harder or reliable accuracy). Even Focus blast can work for rocks and normals. But 2 grass moves on charizard is not ideal.

 

[atomicllamas]

252 SpA Charizard SolarBeam vs. 104 HP / 152 SpD Alomomola: 332-392 (66.8 - 78.87%)
252 SpA Life Orb Charizard Hidden Power Grass vs. 104 HP / 152 SpD Alomomola: 252-299 (50.7 - 60.16%)

Also, never try setting up Shell Smash agaisnt a Charizard:

252 SpA Life Orb Charizard Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Carracosta: 374-445 (129.41 - 153.97%

The difference of power is not that important, and after using SolarBeam once you are left with a Charizard without Life Orb and a bad coverage Grass move.

Since you edited this after I responded, I will respond to this too. These calcs are extremely irrelevant, as LO reveals it to not be choice locked, as a lure, you want to use like air slash on the switch and follow up with a SB KO, as they will think you are scarf locked. Air slash does 31-37% to alomomola meaning that air slash + SB will KO after SR and possibly without it. As soulgazer pointed out, HP grass is also a viable 4th move slot if you are /that/ worried about it and focus blast poops on rock types anyways. A lure isn't meant to sweep teams like LO zard, this is meant to eliminate Alo/Regirock/Cost that could stand in the way of something else's cleaning or sweeping.

 

[AquaAdmin]

Actually, Hidden Power Grass in the 4th moveslot would be ideal: What are you going to do if your opponent has more than two Rock-or Water-type? Power Herb Solarbeam is fantastic if your opponent only has one decent check to Zard, and it might seem bad to have two Grass-type moves on the same set, but Dragon Pulse simply doesn't bring enough coverage to be used over a more reliable Grass-type move in Hidden Power Grass if something happen (such as your opponent switching out predicting you will switch out, for example.)

I completely see your point. Dragon Pulse doesn't really have that great of coverage (although it hits rock neutrally =]), but I wouldn't rely on a lure to take out more than one pokemon. HP Grass isn't really that great, since it's only 70 BP. You don't even have any boosting, whether it be Life Orb, Expert Belt, or even Specs.

252 SpA Charizard Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Carracosta: 288-342 (81.81 - 97.15%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I know this is a bit silly, considering most people don't run 252 HP (or do they, i don't really run carracosta), but it's seriously not good enough to kill. This set is good, but HP Grass without a boost is pointless.

 

[Alonsoforever]

Since you edited this after I responded, I will respond to this too. These calcs are extremely irrelevant, as LO reveals it to not be choice locked, as a lure, you want to use like air slash on the switch and follow up with a SB KO, as they will think you are scarf locked. Air slash does 31-37% to alomomola meaning that air slash + SB will KO after SR and possibly without it. As soulgazer pointed out, HP grass is also a viable 4th move slot if you are /that/ worried about it and focus blast poops on rock types anyways. A lure isn't meant to sweep teams like LO zard, this is meant to eliminate Alo/Regirock/Cost that could stand in the way of something else's cleaning or sweeping.

Ok, it's a lure, then forget about my post, but I am still not too sure about its viability, I mean, you can surprise something, yeah, but Charizard loses some potential. Also, I'd even prefer Expert Belt, yes, you don't KO Alomomola with Air Slash + Hidden Power Grass (HP Grass still 2HKOes Alomomola after SR), but Charizard keeps its coverage intact while having Roost for the last slot to recover the health it loses from Stealth Rock, not having to run 2 Grass-type moves.

 

[The Leprechaun]

Ok, it's a lure, then forget about my post, but I am still not too sure about its viability, I mean, you can surprise something, yeah, but Charizard loses some potential. Also, I'd even prefer Expert Belt, yes, you don't KO Alomomola with Air Slash + Hidden Power Grass (HP Grass still 2HKOes Alomomola after SR), but Charizard keeps its coverage intact while having Roost for the last slot to recover the health it loses from Stealth Rock, not having to run 2 Grass-type moves.

I said it was a lure in the first post I made -_- you quoted it.

The ENTIRE point of this zard is to land a surprise KO on a water type that will stop you from sweeping with something else. If it can't kill alom then that's pretty huge as alom is obviously a problem for a huge number of pokes.

 

[Annoyer]

Scolipede @ w/e (Black Sludge, Life Orb, Bug Gem, Insect Plate)
Trait: Swarm
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Megahorn
- Aqua Tail
- Baton Pass

This Scolipede is pretty cool and i think it was in some rmt that flcl linked me to to show this set. Basically it still functions as a fast sd sweeper with two coverage options BUT it can bp the boosts off to other physical threats such as tauros, kanga, golurk, etc. its pretty damn effective because it can give boosts to other sweepers while still possessing the ability to sweep as well. unlike the subsd set this set doesnt have sub but gives the options of 2 coverages attacks with baton pass. you could also run a bulkier version of the set too to baton pass out boosts more efficiently as well as running spikes over aqua tail if you wanna fit as much as you can into one mon.

another scolipede set i like to use from time to time altho kind of random is payapa berry with spikes / megahorn / pursuit / filler (atail, eq, rock slide) and an ev spread of 176 hp 80 atk and 252 spe (lives non-lo jynx ice beam/psychic after rocks). its not really great except for being a good jynx check/lure or w/e by surprising your opponent that you can live an attack if its scarf and trap it/outspeed it if its not while still being able to provide spikes for your team.

Golurk @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Shadow Punch
- Ice Punch
- Drain Punch

standard cb golurk except with scarf. its a really cool surprise and you can fake it by making it look like cb for the most part of the match and then finally reveal that you are scarf near the end and surprise the fuck out of whoever you're playing. it gives really cool win conditions and works really well with spikes cause you'll be spamming eq 80% of the time and you can outspeed stuff like toad, rott, jynx, kanga, etc. you can also run a no guard set with stone edge and dynamicpunch and scarf dynamicpunches can prob be annoying to deal with. anyways def try it out even though it looks gimmicky but the added speed makes it a great cleaner cause its still hella strong even without cb. (jolly for jynx)

scarf groudon da bes too

EDIT: replay of scarf golurk and payapa pede doing work: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oriserver-nu-50288

smd flcl

 

[Blast]

Haunter @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Destiny Bond

Super cool lure for special walls / things like Skuntank expecting SubDisable, so you can clear the way for something like Scarf Jynx or CM Mushy to clean up. Destiny Bond works arguably even better on this set than LO + 3 attacks because of the awesome surprise factor. Normally Sub Haunter can't really break through its common checks because it lacks power, so most people will feel pretty comfortable bringing in their special wall thinking they can beat it. Makes for a great partner for things that struggle against bulky Pokemon in general, or even an emergency check against stuff like Eelektross.

 

[Alonsoforever]

I said it was a lure in the first post I made -_- you quoted it.

The ENTIRE point of this zard is to land a surprise KO on a water type that will stop you from sweeping with something else. If it can't kill alom then that's pretty huge as alom is obviously a problem for a huge number of pokes.

I insist that for a lure, I prefer Expert Belt or even Flame Plate. But it's just my opinion and I am not a great player.

 

[Lasagne]

I insist that for a lure, I prefer Expert Belt or even Flame Plate. But it's just my opinion and I am not a great player.

It doesn't matter what item you run (as long as it's beneficial of course), it just has to be able to make the opponent think you're running an item you're not. That's the whole point of a lure.

I'd also like to post a set of my own, which will most likely raise some controversy. Offensive Garbodor:

Garbodor @ Expert Belt
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Rock Blast
- Seed Bomb
- Drain Punch

Sitting at a respectable 75 base speed, Garbodor is surprisingly quick on its feet (?). This EV spread outspeeds standard offensive Seismitoad by 1 point (not in rain of course) and OHKOs with Seed Bomb. It also outspeeds and OHKO's Pokemon such as Ludicolo and Exeggutor. Unfortunately Garbodor doesn't get Poison Jab, which could be used in place of Gunk Shot for a less powerful, but more reliable STAB move. Admittedly, I haven't used this since Stage 8, so I'm not sure how it would fare in the current metagame. Primeape provides a perfect setup opportunity, whether it's using U-Turn or Close Combat, or even Ice Punch, as the contact activates Weak Armor and lets Garbodor outspeed the majority of the unboosted metagame. Non-Scarf Jynx is destroyed by whatever move you want, and if you don't have your Weak Armor boost yet, Serperior will most likely Taunt you predicting a defensive set so you can cleanly OHKO it. If not, it'll attack ro set up on you, and since it obviously can't do jack shit to Garbodor, you get a free kill. I usually used this as a lead when i did use it, and it started the game off quickly, often getting a free kill on an unsuspecting Pokemon. You can opt to use Rock Polish over one of the coverage moves if you wish, but I tried it and it was nowhere near as effective as this set, so I don't really recommend it.

 

[watashi]

i used an offensive garbodor set similar to that one with rocky helmet, aftermath, and spikes over drain punch. it could still get surprise kills on seismitoad and stuff but it could also set up hazards if you're up against something that you can't touch

 

[Nugget325]

Charizard @ Custap Berry
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
-Substitute
-Flare Blitz
- Air Slash
- Dragon Pulse

So the idea is to send in charizard on stealth rocks, taking away 50%. Then, substitute to put you in custap range. Finally, Flare Blitz with the custap, blaze
activated, and basically blow up Charizard and the defending pokemon. Of course, it is a bit situational, but I have always thought it was a fun set. The biggest problem
Is if they have a water or rock type in play, but this set can even then hit hard. So, there it is, my favorite charizard set.

 

[Othesemo]

Charizard @ Custap Berry
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
-Substitute
-Flare Blitz
- Air Slash
- Dragon Pulse

So the idea is to send in charizard on stealth rocks, taking away 50%. Then, substitute to put you in custap range. Finally, Flare Blitz with the custap, blaze
activated, and basically blow up Charizard and the defending pokemon. Of course, it is a bit situational, but I have always thought it was a fun set. The biggest problem
Is if they have a water or rock type in play, but this set can even then hit hard. So, there it is, my favorite charizard set.

I tried running some calcs on that, and I gotta say, they're kinda disappointing. The set fails to do much damage to anything that resists it, or even stuff that doesn't- Alomomola, Regirock, Torkoal, Seismitoad- any of them take far less than half of their health in damage, while the list of things this can 1HKO is basically limited to Beheeyem and frailer. Even dedicated special walls that just happen to resist fire, like Miltank, take very little damage while you likely lose your charizard to recoil.

A successful gimmick, I think, is one that can bypass its counters in a surprising and often over looked way- this set, however, loses to many of the same things that regular charizard does while also losing a lot of the utility that regular charizard brings to the table (outspeeding base 95s in particular). Not to be overly critical, but its important to consider what your set is beating which isn't beaten by the standard set.

 

[Chieliee]

Why use flare blitz? It gives recoil and fire blast is generally stronger/better

 

[Infernis]

Especially when all of your other moves are special. I'd say put everything into SpA and go for fire blast. Or hell, Blast Burn if you're only aiming for one big nuke.

 

[Brawlfest]

The four gimmick sets I will be focusing on will be utilizing some items that are not quite typically used, and while aren't the best items they can have, are very effective in certain situations, giving each pokemon a niche outside of their comfort zone.

Golem @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 200 HP / 56 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Blast
- Sucker Punch

Lum berry golem. Very unexpected, but it can help a team break through things like swagpard and jynx, in return dealing serious damage / OHKO'ing back. Outside of that, it simply acts as the normal golem set. This also allows you to safely bring in your golem against things like AcroBlimp, who's best chance at beating you is a Burn, which you can brush off.


Ninjask @ Mental Herb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 36 Spd / 224 Def
Impish Nature
- Baton Pass
- Protect
- Substitute
- Filler

Super gimmicky, but it can work very effectively. Mental Herb allows you to garuntee your pass, even when challenged by Taunt, Encore, etc. While this is extremely situational, things like EncorePard will be unable to halt your progress, as you can simply first turn protect, second turn baton pass. If you accidentally don't protect first turn for some reason, you will still be able to Baton Pass, even when taunted.


Seismitoad @ Rindo Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 SAtk / 200 HP / 56 Spd
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave
- Stealth Rock

Rindo Berry seismitoad. While leftovers are far superior to it, rindo can help in many situations. Pokemon that you normally cannot stay in against you can now OHKO or damage severly with sludge wave, e.g. Sawsbuck and Exeggutor. This also gives you the chance to set up Rocks against the rare HP Grass or Giga Drain off of Ampharos and Eelektross, taking a little bit of prediction weight off of your shoulders.


Sawk (M) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Endure
- Reversal
- Stone Edge

Im bringing Hitmonlee's liechi berry set to NU. A 200 Base power reversal coming off of Sawk hits hard against just about everything, and with the Salac Boost, is only outsped by scarfers. The point of this set is to endure until Salac kicks in, and then proceed to spam Reversal against just about everything. Stone Edge and Earthquake add to the coverage. While this set won't work if the opponent has Alomomola, Misdreavus, or other notorious Sawk counters still alive, it can still effectively sweep the majority of teams that are unprepared to deal with it.

 

[Lasagne]

that first set isn't gimmick at all. Lum berry is one of the best item choices for golem, as it allows it to block all sorts of status moves that the opponent might use. Also it completely counters swagpard which is awesome. It can even get you a sweep if a swagpard uses swagger against you first turn (I ranted about it in #nu a while back).

ninjask itself could be considered a gimmick, but once again mental herb is one of its best item choices to prevent encore, taunt and the like.

that toad set seems ok, but I'd probably prefer using standard offensive sr and just have something else to take grass mons on (you have a team of 6 to get a grass counter in).

sorry but the sawk set is just plain bad. I tried it myself once and it wasn't good at all. The standard CB set or even taun + 3 attacks is much more effective than that is.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Before posting, PLEASE read the OP. As defined by it, gimmicks are sets that beat their usual counters through unusual means. If Sawk is still going to lose to Musharna, or if Ninjask is still going to lose to Rock Blast Pokemon, all while not providing anything else, it's not a good enough gimmick to be in this thread. Check up on the Colbur Golurk I posted or Payapa Scolipede that Annoyer posted, and you should know