apt-get
it's not over 'til it's over
--- Created by Electrolyte | Hosted by apt-get | approved by blarajan ---
Welcome everyone to the new edition of the Counter that Pokemon project! The OU forum has been running this kind of project for a while now- and I thought it would be a great idea to bring it into LC and see what we can do with it. Don't know what Counter that Pokemon is? Read on!
Q: What are we going to do?
A: The idea is to build two teams that, while not necessarily very good in general, are designed to counter each other to the best of their possibilities. We will choose the pokes that will compose the two teams in an alterned fashion: if "1" represents a pick for the Team 1, and "2" a pick for the Team 2, the picks will look like this: 1 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 2 - 2 - 1, so except from the first and the last choice, each team will select two pokes consecutively, attempting to neuter the portion of the other team already known, pose new threats for the opponents, and avoid creating excessive weaknesses that could be easily exploited later. The project will end with a battle between the two teams, to "determine" which team countered "better" the opponent.
Q: How does the picking process work?
A: There are two phases when picking a pokemon for any of the two teams, a discussion phase and a voting phase. In the first phase you propose new sets, give feedback on others' proposals, and generally discuss what direction we should follow for the team that's picking currently. The second phase is a voting one, where everyone can express his/hers preference for the set he/she thinks is best suited for the team. We will implement private voting as an experiment this time, to see if the bandwagoning issues we experienced the last time are diminished. The discussion phase will last roughtly 48-72 hours for each pokemon we're going to pick, to allow everone to propose a set and comment on the already listed ones; the voting will be faster, with a duration of 24-48 hours (I'll adjust the durations according to partecipation / relevance of discussion / other factors).
Q: Why should we bother doing this project if the teams aren't even going to be guaranteedly solid outside of this project?
A: My intent by starting this project is to start a project where users can discuss checking and countering major threats on the metagame. LC forms the perfect grounds for this sort of project, because all of the major threats check and balance each other, so we're probably going to see all three M's and some kind of weather war in here. We might also see some unorthodox yet potentially useful sets. There are many possibilities for us to explore, and therefore such a project is a worthy investment of time.
Rules:
- One set per person. A valid set should include all of the following elements: sprite / image, name of the pokemon, item, ability, nature, EVs, IVs (you can omit this in case they're obvious), moveset, and a description about why your suggestion fits the current team (please avoid one-line submissions). Lack of any of those elements can result into your set not being listed for voting.
- No slashes in movesets.
- To vote, just PM your preference to apt-get; more detailed instructions will be given at the beginning of the voting phase.
- Voting for your own set is allowed. However please keep in mind that there's nothing to win here, so if I see everyone just voting consistently for himself/herself, I'll modify this rule and disallow self voting.
- The standard LC banlist applies, along with common clauses.
- Standard Smogon rules obviously apply here. Please be polite while discussing, avoid flaming, trolling or other disruptive posting habits.
Current state of the project: Nomination [Team 2, Pokemon 2]
The two users in the end of this project with the most amount of voted nominations will duke it out in a best-of-3 to see which team is truly better!
Miscellaneaous / CtP FAQ
How does a good submission look like? This project has mainly been an OU one in the past, and therefore, many good post examples are from OU. There are many examples of awesome submissions, with different presentation, reasoning, and whatever else. Just lurk a bit the old CtP threads (Mk II and Mk III) to have a rough idea and you should be fine. To translate this into LC, basically, just make well supported statements that have solid logic and try not to base your arguments too much on one thing- rather, pull everything- usage, damage calculations, etc into your arguments.
My submission stops cold all the pokes of the opposing team! It's perfect! Maybe. Or maybe it's just overspecialized for the current lineup of the enemy team, and opens much worse scenarios in case the enemy exploits your careless picking. We've seen quite a bit of those proposals in the past, including Signal Beam Cresselia just to counter a Meloetta (no offense intended, but that was just a terrible submission). Those kind of entries are just bad, so please make sure to think a bit more before postng if your idea resembles that. CrackinSkulls gave us awesome guidelines in this perspective, so I'm quoting his post here:
CrackinSkulls It is a teambuilding game where pokemon are suggested for there respective team. At the end of the day these two teams will battle each other. We want to win this battle. So how do we ensure that... we make each set on our team counter our opponents and be as uncounterable as possible so our opponents are hard pressed to counter it with there next addition. Essentially we want to beat our opponent by countering them and preventing them from countering us. I feel that currently people are not understanding this. In the above Dusclops example, do we actually want to build a team around Dusclops!? This gives the opponent hundreds of options to choose from, Tyranitar which is a HUGE advantage because of sand, hell even a Bisharp becomes possible and very tough to counter. In short when you guys start a team do you honestly go "hmm lets make a team around chansey".
You guys are all intelligent people, use your intelligence, wit and cunning to accomplish this task by trapping your opponent just as you would in a match and using your match honed prediction to ensnare your opponent in a sticky web of cunning. Predict their choices and act upon them, play mind games, this game is supposed to bring out the best of our battle honed minds. If we are resorting to using Dusclops and Cresselia our opponent has us on the back foot in the first round from where they can dominate, bully and force into submission. So cunning OU players out there use your match skills to outpredict, outplay and beat the opponent. To quote Poppy in the Ubers thread " Pick discreetly, with the intention to bait, befoul, bludgeon, barf upon, and generally bring waste to the opposition."
If you guys are struggling to understand the concept have a look at the ubers thread or the previous OU one . Anyway i hope i could help you guys understand the game and keep this thread a little cleaner. Don't post nonsense posts keep them simple, clean and easy to follow. Good luck with the game.
So the discussion phase is only about posting sets? Please let me put emphasis on this: NO!!! The most important part of the discussion phase is, well, discussion and feedback on others' sets. The old threads were full of awesome posts, people discussed, changed their sets according to feedback, and it was just a nice, friendly and inspiring environment. This is what we aim to have, and hopefully with your help we'll obtain something great like that. Again, those are OU examples. The LC forum has yet to make its own mark of good posts.
You talked about teams a million of times till now. Do we need to split ourselves in two teams? Nope. You're free to contribute to the discussion while picking pokes for Team 1, 2, or both, as you please. I encourage contributing actively for both teams, since it makes the project more fun and avoid the risks of a team running out of proposals / submissions / discussion.
IMPORTANT! Team 2 has a HUGE advantage! Picking last is gamebreaking! This concern is perfectly justified. It is very hard for team 1 to cover absolutely every threat while teambuilding, especially not since team 2 can constantly apply pressure by counterpicking, and team 2 can exploit this difficulty and obtain an advantage by counerpicking with their last pokemon. Because of this, team 1 has to be extremely careful when teambuilding, and it should try to patch up its holes as solidly as possible while it builds because decisions can not be taken back.
TEAM 1:
Murkrow @ Life Orb
Trait: Insomnia
Level: 5
EVs: 240 Atk / 80 SAtk / 188 Spd
Naive Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Trait: Insomnia
Level: 5
EVs: 240 Atk / 80 SAtk / 188 Spd
Naive Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Grass]
TEAM 2:
Archen @ Eviolite
Trait: Defeatist
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 100 Atk / 76 Def / 76 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- U-turn
Magnemite @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Magnet Pull
Level: 5
EVs: 240 SAtk / 28 SDef / 240 Spd
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ground]
Trait: Defeatist
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 100 Atk / 76 Def / 76 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- U-turn
Magnemite @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Magnet Pull
Level: 5
EVs: 240 SAtk / 28 SDef / 240 Spd
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ground]
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