Little Cup Viability Rankings

[Delver]

my biggest problem with Clamperl is that its the only smasher that *can only* smash. Shellder has its scraf set, Dwebble and omanyte can run lead/hazard sets, and tirt has a powerful defensive set. Essentially, as nozzle mentioned, its incredibly predictable. If i see a clamperl in the opponents line up I *KNOW* its going to be a smash set and that i should be increadibly conservative with my smash checks. In contrast, when i see dwebbles, I often think them to be the hazard sets. Thats not to say "dwebble is a better smasher" but variety in sets has become more important since the introduction of team Preview, and its something that clamperl lacks. Simultaneously, this is the main reason we opted to put scraggy in the A teir instead of the S teir.

Another issue that people havent really looked at is that it cant take advantage of its amazing stats for smashing due to a lack of useful physical attacks. Maybe useful is a bad term, but its strongest attacks are special and lacks anything really impressive as far as coverage goes on the physical side. Thanks to deep sea tooth this isnt *that* big a deal because having a 68 special attack stat is fucking hilarious; but it does make the set easier to "wall". As an example; tirtouga is often seen using 3 physical attacks (waterfall Stone Edge Aqua jet) but it *can* effectively run Hydropump over waterfall as a stab to help it break through the few physical walls that arent weak to water (bronzor?). conversely, dropping HPump for Waterfall on clamperl is less than ideal because of the Base power drop and (if you're using it) it doesnt benefit from DST.


Just so I'm not *only* devil advocating: rattled is an annoying ability on smashers. Most of the time i fight clamperl they switch in on a uturn and then i cry.

 

[Icicle Fissh]

Yeah, I totally agree with the above post: Clamperl is lethal if given the chance to set-up, though that can sometimes be hard due to it's predictability and the fact it shouldn't really be using Eviolite, so it isn't taking hits as well as some. Substitute can aid setup somewhat, but then it is forced to forgo HP Grass, meaning it is stopped by a lot of bulky waters. I would say B-rank, because it it will either sweep in spectacular style, or just not find the chance to set up and be relegated to death fodder.

Another issue that people havent really looked at is that it cant take advantage of its amazing stats for smashing due to a lack of useful physical attacks.

You do mention that this is not a huge deal, and I would second this, and go even further as to say this does not hurt Clamperl at all: if Clamperl gets to +2 unscathed, the only thing that can safely take a hit from the standard Hydro Pump (or Surf) / Ice Beam / HP Grass moveset is Ferroseed, which has a tiny chance to be 0hkoed by Ice Beam. (Correct me if I have missed something)

 

[dcae]

I also support Clamperl for B rank. It has so much sheer power with Deepseatooth. However, its bulk really lets it down. Even before the boost it can get OHKO d by a lot of pokes. After the boost it gets wrecked by all types of priority. Thus it is a perfect representation of a B rank poke.

 

[Shouting]

my biggest problem with Clamperl is that its the only smasher that *can only* smash. Shellder has its scraf set, Dwebble and omanyte can run lead/hazard sets, and tirt has a powerful defensive set. Essentially, as nozzle mentioned, its incredibly predictable.

Clamperl IS really predicable, but I think this is a little one-sided. Honestly, who is using defensive Omanyte when Kabuto spins with access to priority and Tirtouga has (generally) better stats? All of them have Stealth Rock, Knock off, etc. Toxic Spikes are really useless with Mienfoo, Murkrow, and Missy either not caring about them or just plain avoid them all together. Spikes is really the only reason, but Dweeble and Shelmet set them up waaaay better. Stealth Rock and Spikes on Omanyte is too much, you'll be trying to do too much, and you'll get at most get two hazard turns if you're lucky.

Speaking of Kabuto, it's actually a good spinner. What is good about it is that people really don't think Rapid Spin when they see one, so you'll probably get a free spin even if the team has a ghost type. It also beats Dweeble that lack Earthquake, and most of the ones that have hazards don't have Earthquake. It also beats and walls Difloon, which is used as a shaky spin blocker sometimes. The best thing though is that it lures in Mienfoo and Timburr like no other and can use knock off. From there Pawiard has a much easier sweep.

My main problem with Staryu and Drilbur is that while they might be reliable spinners on paper, in practice they are very predicable. I don't even think MB drilbur is even that good, yeah you can Earthquake Missy, but what can it switch in on? Every time I play against one, it's always 2HKO by any moderately powerful neutral STAB attack. Staryu is the same thing, it's 2HKO'd by a whole bunch of Fire types it's supposed to check (Houndour, Ponyta, even Larvesta does around 50% with U-turn) recovery helps, but switching in, recovering, and switching out again against a grass type doesn't accomplish much. I think Kabuto is just fine in C tier.

 

[The Quasar]

Excuse me if I'm wrong, but should Munchlax be reclassified ?

 

[dcae]

I would like to put forth Dwebble for A rank. Having used it to great success lately in LC, I have found it is easily one the best in the tier. It can run two sets very effectively: Hazard Lead or Shell Smash attacker. Both of the sets are excellent, though the SS set is arguably outclassed by Tirtouga due to better STABs. However, the lead set is great because it sets up both hazards and has access to Sturdy, to assure one layer of hazards. The Smasher set, on the other hand, sports perfect coverage and a move that can eliminate Sub Murkrow. Overall, it is imo an A rank threat through and through, and should be promoted.

 

[macle]

Clamperl and Gastly to B, Elekid to D.

 

[Bugbot]

Will Zorua be tiered?

 

[Rowan]

Will Zorua be tiered?

Everything gets tiered, you just have to nominate it for a tier and then people in the thread will discuss it and decide on it together

 

[JacobNinja]

Anorith For B

20 attack, 18 speed, great setup moves in Rock Polish and Swords Dance, spinning and rocks. Also, it can abuse rain with swift swim. Not A because of a stealth rock weakness, and while it has a large enough movepool to get things done, it is fairly predictable, with only Brick Break, Rock Slide, and X Scizor as viable moves

 

[spuds4ever]

I would argue against anorith for B. It just has too much going against it, poor offensive movepool, stealth rock weakness, being easily beaten by every fighting type, and being out classed badly in all its roles: spinner setter and set up sweeper (drilbur, dwebble to name the closest examples). And if you look at other stuff in B like ponyta and axew which are actually really strong mons, I think it's obvious anorith doesn't fit there.

On the other hand, I'd like to nominate mantyke for B. Not only is it a great anti metagame mon, being a great answer to sand and one of few weather sweepers who's weather is actually very tough to remove thanks to having dual stabs to threaten the happiest Christmas tree and hippo as well as being generally really hard to stop, the only common Pokemon that hard counters it being chinchou. It also has another viable set which has a unique niche among bulky waters (I.e dealing with grass types with ease for example).

 

[Good_Luck!]

I would like to put forth Dwebble for A rank. Having used it to great success lately in LC, I have found it is easily one the best in the tier. It can run two sets very effectively: Hazard Lead or Shell Smash attacker. Both of the sets are excellent, though the SS set is arguably outclassed by Tirtouga due to better STABs. However, the lead set is great because it sets up both hazards and has access to Sturdy, to assure one layer of hazards. The Smasher set, on the other hand, sports perfect coverage and a move that can eliminate Sub Murkrow. Overall, it is imo an A rank threat through and through, and should be promoted.

Dwebble is just fine in B. It just can't compare with A Pokemon like Scraggy, Hippopotas or Snover as it's not like you run something to counter Dwebble. Eliminating SubMurkrow can be a really a difficult task as Sucker Punch will KO it at -1 given sturdy is broken. Tirtouga really outclasses it as it resists Flying (Dwebble is neutral) and can handle Drilbur with Aqua Jet. The lead set is really effective but keeping hazards up is hard with two heavy offensive spinners in Drilbur and Staryu. It still is the most effective setter as it outspeeds most Taunt users except for Cottonee and Misdreavus. However, Stealth Rock is widespread and Spikes won't do a thing against the big three (Missy, Murk, 'Foo). B is good for it.

Will Zorua be tiered?

Delver adressed Zorua in this post.

Adding to what he said: I find Zorua very annoying but it hardly does a thing once Illusion goes down. Sure, it can net a kill or two with smart playing. Choice Scarf with U-turn and Sucker Punch can be deadly as it won't be discovered until late game and can disguise itself as both Murkrow and Mienfoo. But, as I said, once Illusion goes down it's very easy to play around it. C rank.

Excuse me if I'm wrong, but should Munchlax be reclassified ?

Actually it isn't ranked. There was discussion about it in this page but it never reached a consesus. I still think it deserves B-tier as it's a very underrated 'mon.

Anorith For B

I agree with spuds and I'll like to add that it has severe 4MSS. It's not crap but I'm yet to see an Anorith who does something in a battle other than spinning and dying/try to setup, hit hard and dying: C-rank. It REALLY needs support to be effective, unlike other B-mons like Dwebble who has Rock Polish AND Swords Dance in one move. Offensive Anorith should stick on Rain Offense which is hard to pull if you need Swords Dance + Rain Dance + Bug STAB + Rock STAB...

On the other hand, I'd like to nominate mantyke for B. Not only is it a great anti metagame mon, being a great answer to sand and one of few weather sweepers who's weather is actually very tough to remove thanks to having dual stabs to threaten the happiest Christmas tree and hippo as well as being generally really hard to stop, the only common Pokemon that hard counters it being chinchou. It also has another viable set which has a unique niche among bulky waters (I.e dealing with grass types with ease for example).

Not true about the counters: Magnemite if not running HP Fire (which you shouldn't because of Rain), Chinchou if not running HP Grass (Actually, HP Ground should be enough for both :P). Ferroseed can also tank hits and Leech Seed it (or paralyze it but I think I'm the only one who runs Thunder Wave Ferro). Lileep can use Toxic or AncientPower. Stealth Rock weakness is very harsh for it.

BUT it is a really effective anti-meta 'mon as Spuds says. It doesn't need too much support as you can fit it in a team in need to counters for sand. A grass-type for Chinchou and a Fighting-type for everyting else is something you find in every corner these days, after all: B-rank, indeed.

 

[Electrolyte]

I would actually like to push B tier for Anorith, or at least very high C tier. Its support set is really great, actually. It might not have much going for it offensively but it is a great offensive support pokemon that can help its team both offensively and indirectly (referring to support set here.) Its high speed and super high attack stat, when coupled with its decent movepool, makes it a pretty useful and reliable support pokemon.

I use it as a lead against all teams except Sand, since it's a great anti-lead and can easily not only set up quick rocks but also spin away hazards on its own side or poke some holes in the defenses of its opponents. It is nearly impossible to prevent it from setting down Stealth Rock, as few things can outspeed + Taunt or outspeed + OHKO. Its fast Rapid Spin also lets it counter opposing leads such as Dwebble, clearing the stage for a teammate such as ScarfKrow to come in and start wrecking things. It also easily defeats Snover, Murkrow, Natu, Dwebble, and even DDance Scraggy 1 v 1, utilizing its fair bulk, good speed, great power, and decent offensive movepool to KO opponents. Rock Blast, Brick Break, and maybe Knock Off are all it really needs to succeed, as the multihit power of Rock Blast lets it KO a multitude of opponents and Brick Break takes care of Scraggy and Steel types. Kock Off is another great move, letting it beat even Hippo and Lead Foo by knocking off their eviolites so that it is much easier to take them down later.

I have been using Anorith as my Dark Horse pokemon, and I must say, it has definitely been impressing me. Its speed, power, and movepool make it a great offensive support pokemon / anti-lead, and it fulfills a needed niche that not many other pokemon can take up. B-Tier please.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

As of now I honestly think Aipom should be moved to D-Rank, if not E-Rank--Honestly, I think it's just that bad. Aipom is absolutely horrible in the current LC metagame and it really can't do much of anything. Fake Out from Aipom is horrendously weak and overall Aipom is pretty weak in general. It sucks in a Mienfoo and Misdreavus dominant meta and it ultimately can't accomplish anything. Fighting-types have no trouble killing it and Ghost-types wall it hard. Aipom is just really awful and should be moved to at least D-Rank, possibly even E-Rank.

Munchlax should definitely be B-Rank because it's pretty damn good in this meta. It has awesome special bulk that allow it to take on shit like Gastly and non WoW Missy. It can run a strong Bulky Attacker set that can hit pretty hard and trap Ghosts while being pretty solid. It pairs up pretty well with Misdreavus as the two have nice synergy together. Of course it has that bad Fighting-type weakness and such but its perks are definitely plenty. Overall I think Munchlax is a solid Pokemon and deserves to be at least B-Rank.

 

[Rider76]

As of now I honestly think Aipom should be moved to D-Rank, if not E-Rank--Honestly, I think it's just that bad. Aipom is absolutely horrible in the current LC metagame and it really can't do much of anything. Fake Out from Aipom is horrendously weak and overall Aipom is pretty weak in general. It sucks in a Mienfoo and Misdreavus dominant meta and it ultimately can't accomplish anything. Fighting-types have no trouble killing it and Ghost-types wall it hard. Aipom is just really awful and should be moved to at least D-Rank, possibly even E-Rank.

Munchlax should definitely be B-Rank because it's pretty damn good in this meta. It has awesome special bulk that allow it to take on shit like Gastly and non WoW Missy. It can run a strong Bulky Attacker set that can hit pretty hard and trap Ghosts while being pretty solid. It pairs up pretty well with Misdreavus as the two have nice synergy together. Of course it has that bad Fighting-type weakness and such but its perks are definitely plenty. Overall I think Munchlax is a solid Pokemon and deserves to be at least B-Rank.

I agree with Aipom, he is too bad. I think the D-rank would be better because he is better than E-ranked mon.

I also agree with Munchlax being in B-rank. I used it and he is a really good special staller and bulky Attacker.

 

[Celestavian]

OK let's see what we got here:

Aipom: C-rank

...What? Isn't Aipom the epitome of terrible? That's what many LCers would like you to believe. That said, Aipom was once a stand-alone Pokemon before Ambipom was a thing, meaning that it has stats that are "made for OU" in the most generous sense possible. It's pretty bulky, hits 19 Speed, and that Fake Out hits hard with LO. With Eviolite, it still gets some good 2HKOes (Missy with Shadow Claw) while living through everything that isn't a powerful STAB Fighting-type move. It supresses a lot of common threats such as Scarf Snover and Mienfoo, who are both 2HKOed by LO Fake Out, Abra, Staryu, and basically anything that isn't running an Eviolite below 19 Speed. Aipom isn't great, I'll give it that, but come on people, it's not that bad!

Anorith: C-rank

I've used Anorith before, lured in by that huge Attack stat and decent Speed. The "decent Speed" part is where everything goes wrong. Sure, it can set up rocks (and spin too? I know its evolution can) and possibly even a Swords Dance, but when there's a bunch of faster stuff that kills/cripples it, it just always seemed underwhelming on my teams. Also, it's STABS are entirely resisted by the pure Fighting-types running around everywhere in the metagame, and since it lacks Zen Headbutt and +2 EQ only OHKOes Croagunk, they will endlessly stop it from doing anything besides vomiting out Rocks. Looks great on paper, underperforms in practice.

Munchlax: C-rank

Lots of C-rank mons out there today! Anyway, I believe that Lickitung outclasses Munchlax as a bulky Normal-type, since except for Munchlax's higher Attack and Special Defense, it has no advantages over Lickitung. Lickitung has reliable healing, Heal Bell, Dragon Tail, and isn't made useless by Will-o-Wisps from the Pokemon it's trying to check. There's also Porygon, who also has reliable recovery, and the defenses to take neutral hits that would vaporize Munchlax, such as Murkrow Brave Birds and Axew Outrages. They also all have the chance to outspeed something, which Munchlax is literally incapable of unless it runs max+, which is not hugely important, but helps when you need to Recover before Hippopotas chips off the last bit of your HP. Munchlax is also one of those Pokemon good on paper, but not as great in practice.

Out of time, so here's the others:

Zorua: C
Dwebble: B

 

[Good_Luck!]

Aipom is nice in C. I had a lot of fun with FO + Flying gem Acrobatics to kill unsuspecting fighting-types. The reasons stated by Hawkstar are very true, I think we're misguided by the fact that Hippopotas is a common lead and forces Aipom out but this thing is actually not THAT bad, it has some useful moves and good speed.

Should Meowth join it or is it outclassed and should be D? Iask because I'm not sure. When looking at them together it's clear that Aipom has better stas, however Meowth has access to useful moves such as hypnosis or taunt and a great ability in technician. I'm torn but I think Meowth is the one who should be placed on D.

On regards of Munchlax, Hawk is right and I absolutely forgot that while Munchlax is the preevo of Snorlax, Lickitung actually got a new evolution which means it has higher base stats. Heal Bell is better than rest and Lickitung can go special if needed: Munchlax for C, Licki for B.

 

[TUO]

I think you guys all forgot a major thing with Munchlax; Thick Fat. Munchlax has thick fat which pretty much allows it to resist Blizzards from snover while racking up damage on it with Pursuit/SR. Overall Munchlax can perform similarly to Lickitung but can check Snover way better imo deserves more praise than being considered a weaker licky.

 

[Shouting]

If Porygon is A, then I see no real reason why Lickitung can't be A. Licki has even more bulk than porygon does. Trace isn't a huge advantage by any means, and Own Tempo comes in handy with Murkrow and the occasional Purrlion. It supports the team much better due to wish access and pretty much the same attacking abilities as porygon. Choice Scarf Porygon isn't really that great at all.

Munchlax does handle stuff like Life Orb Houndour better than Licki and Porygon do though, so it does have some advantages

 

[McRider]

If Porygon is A, then I see no real reason why Lickitung can't be A. Licki has even more bulk than porygon does. Trace isn't a huge advantage by any means, and Own Tempo comes in handy with Murkrow and the occasional Purrlion. It supports the team much better due to wish access and pretty much the same attacking abilities as porygon. Choice Scarf Porygon isn't really that great at all.

Munchlax does handle stuff like Life Orb Houndour better than Licki and Porygon do though, so it does have some advantages

Porygon is better than Licki. Lickitung is maybe bulkier but Porygon has recover whereas Lickitung will rely on Wish + Protect. Unlike Lickitung, Porygon hits hard and isn't a set-up fodder, uninvested Porygon has 15 in Special Attack while Lickitung has 12 in Attack. Own Tempo isn't that useful because Confuse Ray isn't really common while Trace is really useful against some mons. I agree that it is a good supporter but Porygon has a lot of advantages.

 

[Shouting]

Tri Attack and Shadow Ball is not good coverage, and Tri Attack and Ice Beam really isn't much better. The only common attacking moves it carries are a combination of those three.

Lickitung can actually touch steel types with Fire Blast, something Porygon can't do, which means a free switch in most cases for Bronzor and Pawniard. Zen Headbutt is available if you want to hit Fighting types, and Lickitung can protect and scout for Hi Jump Kick, which Porygon can't do. Lickitung can phaze with Dragon Tail if you really want to. Plus it has Heal Bell, which is awesome (however I don't think you can use it with Wish)

Porygon might have better Special Attack but Lickitung's coverage makes up for it. For example, Porygon will never OHKO life orb Drilbur with Tri Attack, meanwhile Lickitung can OHKO with Power Whip. This means you have to use Ice Beam to KO it, but ghost and steel types will get a free switch if you do that. Body Slam also has a handy paralysis rate, and Tri Attack's secondary effect comes in play less often.

Also, ParaFusion Murkrow is not uncommon, and can potentially beat Porygon if conditions are right (like if it doesn't carry Ice Beam).

They're really equal in my opinion. Anything Porygon can take on Lickitung can take on. Porygon has more raw power and Trace meanwhile Lickitung has better coverage, is bulkier, and has Wish to support teammates.

 

[prem]

tri attack and shadow ball is good enough coverage in lc. there are almost no steel types in this metagame, outside of pawniard and ferroseed (bronzor is so bad), so it gets the job done. yes pawniard gets a free set up, but you should have a lot of answers to pawniard as its honestly not hard to beat in a meta full of fighting tyypes.

lickitung can touch the nonexistant steel types that wouldnt get punished by your fighting types on your team yes. too bad its attack is so bad that the coverage wont OHKO or maybe even 2HKO the threats. im guaranteed no good player will ever use hjk on licki unless they have scouted or have no other option because licki is always either restalk or wish protect.

lickitung is good, but i feel like porygon is just better because it can check a bigger variety of things better. from your post you make it sound like licktung has the ability to check all those things and still recover. porygon can easily check drillbur by running ice beam, and then can just status murkrow and missy with twave, which lickitung wil not do.

 

[Rowan]

Porygon is a lot better at beating SubPlot Misdreavus. It can 2HKO with Shadow Ball and stop it actually doing much. Lickitung can't break Misdreavus' substitutes with Dragon Tail meaning that SubPlot Missy can actually take it on and win. Of course, Lickitung can run Shadow Ball but then it has to sacrifice Protect or Heal Bell. Without protect it can't recover well enough and without Heal Bell it's starting to lose its niche.

But to be honest, I'm not sure why we're comparing them, aside from being Normal type and therefore countered by similar things they play quite differently. Porygon is like a Bulky tank beating common threats (like the aforementioned Misdreavus) with a great ability in trace and ability to heal up quickly with recover. Because of its great utility in beating random threats whilst still maintaining a good offensive presence it deserves A tier.

Lickitung however, is more of a supporter, and there is nothing that outclasses it because nothing can really do its role. Heal Bell and Wish make it a great partner for many things that lack recovery like Misdreavus and Koffing. It also has Dragon Tail to phaze and rack up entry hazard damage. Basically a really good support pokemon.
However, it still does need support itself. It doesn't have a good enough typing to take on many threats and doesn't have a fantastic ability to make up for it. It has 4mss as it has to sacrifice Heal Bell to be able to run anything else decent and then it's slaughtered by status unless you have Chinchou. I don't think Lickitung does enough on most teams to warrant a move slot unless you're running stall.
Although it's a fantastic supporter I think Lickitung deserves B. Looking at the A-tier list, all the Pokemon on there are automatic consideration when building a team for me. I never normally consider Lickitung unless I'm building around it or I'm using stall which isn't a common enough archetype to be A tier.

edit: Munchlax is like the midpoint between the 2 imo and it is outclassed for a large part by both. Porygon is a better Misdreavus counter and bulky attacker, Lickitung is a better Resttalker/phazer. If it's not running RestTalk then it just gets beat by status and gets worn down. The best niche it has is being the best hard counter to Snover in the tier. It can even deal good damage with pursuit. If it is without pursuit though then Snover switches out to a fighting type and Munchlax just eventually gets worn down. It is also great at beating Fire types but they're not that common. It's mostly just a sitting duck for me but it has decent niches to make it C.

I'd like to bring something else up now: Magnemite for A

It's currently placed in B but I think it is better than most of the mons on the list. With 20 Sp.Atk Volt Switch is an amazing move when the opponent doesn't have a ground-type or chinchou. If they're down Volt Switch spamming does a crap ton of damage as not much can switch into it. The ones that can (lileep and ferroseed spring to mine) are roasted by Magnemite's other moves (flash cannon, hp fire). Ground types aren't actually that hard to get by. Most of the Hippo or Drilbur switch ins are pretty obvious so you can just set up Magnet Rise and beat them. Yes, Magnemite can't switch into them but it can serve as a great lure. Bulky Magnemite is great because it can beat so many common threats like Snover, Lileep, Ferroseed, Bronzor, subroost Krow...
Scarf Magnemite is also incredible making even better use of Volt Switch. It now beats many of the things it already beats and some more like LO Mixkrow and Staryu. It can also 2HKO chinchou and hippo with HP Grass making it a great lure. It's such a good revenge killer for quite a lot of threats, its typing makes it seem quite bulky for a scarfer, and once certain things are out the way (chinchou and hippo lured with HP Grass) it can sweep very capably late game with Thunderbolt or Flash Cannon.

 

[-Sparkbeat-]

They're really equal in my opinion. Anything Porygon can take on Lickitung can take on. Porygon has more raw power and Trace meanwhile Lickitung has better coverage, is bulkier, and has Wish to support teammates.

Its really hard to compare Licki and Pory, because what they do is completely different. Licki is meant to be a wall that supports its team with wish and heal bell, but has little offensive presence. Pory is meant to be a bulky attacker that handles things that would be a big threat to your team, like Drilbur and Murkrow. You can adjust its set and moves to beat whatever hurts you most. But, if we do compare them, then they would be equally as good at what they do if it wasn't for 2 things.

1- Lickitung is plagued more than Porygon by the loads of fighting types in LC. Porygon has the offensive presence to hit them hard on the switch in with tri-attack, and I've even seen some with Psychic just for fighting type switch-ins. Also, Porygon can cripple them on the switch with t-wave, while the most Licki can do is Dragon Tail on the switch.

2- Porygon had an amazing niche in this metagame which Lickitung lacks, which is being able to stop a +2 Drilbur sweep with Scarf and Trace. Honestly, Lickitung lacks a real niche in this metagame. It walls Special Attackers well, but Sub + NP Missy with HP fighting can use Licki to set-up, since Dragon Tail fails to break the sub.

And about the thing you said about them being able to take on the same things, well, Licki gets beat by Sub NP Missy as I said before and Pory can use Shadow Ball to break subs and KO, and Licki gets beat by a +2 Drilbur with rocks up.

Also like to second Corkscrew on Magnemite for A for pretty much the same reasons he put. Handels many common threats, and can volt switch out of threats to itself.

 

[Shouting]

Fire Blast does more than enough to Steel types, Fire Blast will OHKO Ferroseed more often than not depending on the spread it has, OHKOs Life Orb Pawniard and 2HKOs Eviolite, Eviolite Magnemite is 2HKO'd, and Choice Scarf Magnemite is always OHKO'd (and Lickitung can scout it's move with protect) it 2HKOs Foongus and Shroomish, and it even has a small chance to 2HKO Bronzor, it has more than enough power.

Or, If you want to use Power Whip, you have the benefit of OHKOing Life Orb Drilbur which Porygon can't do without Ice Beam, you can still break Drifloon's Subsitiutes, hit Staryu and Chinchou very hard, and almost any rock type coming in expecting a Normal move. More importantly, it hits Tirtouga, one of the most dangerous set up sweepers. Porygon can't do anything to Tirtouga except Thunder Wave, so you can't fully rely on Porygon to check Tirtouga which is a major plus to Lickitung.

Thunder Wave and Ice Beam leaves you open for any Missy that carries Substitute, so Tri Attack and Ice Beam Porygon doesn't handle Missy very well.. Pretty much any attack that Lickitung can carry will break a Substitute.

Lickitung can be just as an effective tank as Porygon can be. Using Curse Lickitung with Dragon Tail is just....not good. Dragon Tail isn't good on Lickitung unless you have spikes or using more of a stall / semi stall team. Lickitung doesn't have to use Dragon Tail by any means, unless you really want to phaze. Any Fighting type that comes in on Lickitung can come in on Porygon too, so I'm not really seeing the point where Lickitung needs support but Porygon doesn't. Porygon is wrecked by status also, Lickitung can at least use Heal Bell if it wants.

Again, if Porygon can handle random stuff like Elekid just fine, so can Lickitung. Remember that Lickitung has better base defenses than Porygon. In fact, random stuff like Aron can actually 2HKO Porygon, but cannot 2HKO Lickitung. Considering Porygon can't touch Aron either and Lickitung can, this is an advantage. It's the little cases like this that make Lickitung comparable to Porygon.

Lickitung and Porygon can both be used as walls, and both can be bulky attackers. Lickitung has more freedom to adjust it's set to beat would be counters, making it much more unpredictable than Porygon. Porygon will pretty much always have Tri Attack and Shadow Ball or Ice Beam meanwhile Lickitung can have Fire Blast, Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, Power Whip, Dragon Tail, Zen Headbutt, etc.

Body Slam has a paralysis rate also, and any fighting type is risking taking a chnace when coming on on Lickitung just like they're taking a risk switching in on Thunder Wave from Porygon.

Like I said, Choice Scarf Porygon is not good, even against Sand it's not that great, and if you aren't facing Sand it's even worse. Porygon is forced t use Ice Beam to force out Drilbur, but Ice Beam against Lileep in Sand doesn't even 3HKO. Considering that Choice Scarf Porygon can never come in on Drilbur, it's not as good as everyone makes it out to be. Against non-sand teams it can't revenge sweepers like Scraggy, Tirt, Dweeble, etc.