Magmortar Discussion

[Style_Dota]

How this one hasn't been made yet is beyond me.

If you haven't faced off against Magmortar at least once, then you obviously haven't been playing that much NU. Magmortar is definitely one of the most threatening Special Attackers in NU. Despite having a Stealth Rock Weakness, it easily makes up for it with its versatile move pool and decent stats. Magmortar is primarily seen as a Choiced User, but there are other sets that make Magmortar very threatening.

Move Sets

[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ice
item: Life Orb
ability: Vital Spirit
nature: Timid
EVs: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe

Man this thing is scary. Base 125 Special Attack means that Magmortar is going to be hitting a lot of things hard. Hidden Power Grass was mainly for Lanturn, but now it serves as a way to hit Quagsire. Hidden Power Ice hits the less common but equally dangerous Altaria.

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Grass
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Vital Spirit
nature: Timid
EVs: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe

While it's not outspeeding Rotom-S, Scarfed Magmortar is definitely a very threatening revenge killer. Hidden Power Ice is more recommended for this set in order to defeat DD Altaria.

[SET]
name: Flame Charge
move 1: Flame Charge
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Thunderbolt
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ice
item: Life Orb
ability: Vital Spirit
nature: Naive / Hasty
EVs: 24 Atk / 252 SpA / 232 Spe

Flame Charge is a lesser seen but very threatening set. Flame Charge allows Magmortar to have the speed of a choiced user while being able to freely switch moves. While I disagree with having a Naive Nature (really should be Timid, what the hell are you trying to kill with Flame Charge :/), this set is definitely an underrated but viable set.

Other viable options

Hidden Power [Water]- ok, I know all of you are probably thinking why this? Well, right now, one of the best Magmortar checks in the tier is Camerupt. This not only completely catches Camerupt off guard, but it paves away a chance for some teammates that might have a hard time with Camerupt (Grass mons like Exeggutor or Cacturne)

Expert Belt- Feigning a choiced set is a fantastic way to get off some surprise kills. Ironically, no one ever seems to expect Expert Belt, since no one ever uses it. I have tested it out, and it works fairly well, luring in bulky waters thinking they can wall Magmortar only to be rocked by Thunderbolt the next turn.

Discuss!

 

[canno]

I can vouch for Expert Belt. Got so many surprise kills with it, and with Magmortars coverage, he's usually going to land the SE hit. Personally though, I found the Choice Scarf set to be the most over all useful set for Magmortar. How viable is Choice Specs on the first set? In theory I can see it work.

 

[Style_Dota]

I personally have not tried a Specs set. TBH, 83 Spe is a trolly speed, and just doesn't seem worth it to Specs Magmortar. If it had more base Speed than Rotom, I would be more tempted to be honest

 

[CrazyBacon]

you can use substitute too ease prediction, and scout what your opponents item/moves. Its pretty easy to use, just sub on the switch and click the move that best fits the situation, this doesn however cut into magmortars options on a set, but I think it can be justified.

 

[Nubagator]

This sounds a little ridiculous, but magmar is an interesting alternative to magmortar. While it's special attack is a less impressive base 100, it does have base 93 speed, making it faster, but much less powerful. The movepool is also less extensive I think :/ In any case Magmortar is an excellent poke, and I think the all out attacking set is really useful for making holes for various things to abuse.

 

[Steamroll]

Sub + 3 attack Mortar actually seems very useful. Mortar forces a ton of switches and can easily set up subs on the switch out. Plus when a sub is up it has a second chance to kill Gore and other Smashers with HP Grass.

 

[Style_Dota]

The only problem I have with Sub + 3 attacks is that Magmortar is weak to all hazards. The extra recoil damage from Substitute really cuts its longivity.

 

[Roen]

I haven't done any calcs yet, but wouldn't Thick Fat Grumpig be a good check to Magmortar? Resisting Fire Blast and Focus Blast with base 80 HP and base 110 SpDef. Kind of like a Hypno that has an extra resistance to Fire and Ice moves.

It probably won't be doing much back to Magmortar in offensive terms with Psychic/Psyshock or unSTABbed Power Gem. But it has a ton of nifty support moves to mess him up.
Thunder Wave, Mirror Coat, Trick, Whirlwind, Resttalk and even Heal Bell for some clerical support if need be.

So if anyone could do some calcs for him, maybe Grumpig could be an interesting addition.

 

[erisia]

The Naive nature actually lets Magmortar OHKO Jynx and Cryogonal with Flame Charge IIRC, although i might have to look at this... Earthquake was also a good coverage option for OHKOing Lanturn and dealing respectable damage to Camerupt and other Magmortar but with Lanturn gone it's probably not as viable any more.

 

[Sabinfrost]

I just walled a LO one on PO with Noctowl

Sabin41 sent out Noctowl!

Erisiascape's Magmortar used Focus Blast!
Noctowl lost 122 HP! (30% of its health)
Erisiascape's Magmortar is hurt by its Life Orb!

Noctowl restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 13
Erisiascape's Magmortar used Thunderbolt!
It's super effective!
Noctowl lost 226 HP! (55% of its health)
Noctowl is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
Erisiascape's Magmortar is hurt by its Life Orb!

Noctowl is paralyzed! It can't move!

Noctowl restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 14
Erisiascape's Magmortar used Fire Blast!
The attack of erisiascape's Magmortar missed!

Noctowl used Roost!
Noctowl landed on the ground!
Noctowl regained health!

Noctowl restored a little HP using its Leftovers!


Start of turn 15
Erisiascape's Magmortar used Thunderbolt!
It's super effective!
Noctowl lost 226 HP! (55% of its health)
Erisiascape's Magmortar is hurt by its Life Orb!

Noctowl used Psycho Shift!
Noctowl moved its status onto erisiascape's Magmortar!
Erisiascape's Magmortar is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

Noctowl restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 16
Noctowl used Roost!
Noctowl landed on the ground!
Noctowl regained health!
Sabin41: Owl be wallin

Erisiascape's Magmortar used Focus Blast!
It's super effective!
Noctowl lost 264 HP! (65% of its health)
Erisiascape's Magmortar is hurt by its Life Orb!

Noctowl restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 17
Noctowl used Roost!
Noctowl landed on the ground!
Noctowl regained health!

Erisiascape's Magmortar used Focus Blast!
The attack of erisiascape's Magmortar missed!

Noctowl restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
stopped watching the battle.

Start of turn 18
Noctowl used Night Shade!
Erisiascape's Magmortar lost 34% of its health!

Erisiascape's Magmortar used Thunderbolt!
It's super effective!
Noctowl lost 206 HP! (50% of its health)
Erisiascape's Magmortar is hurt by its Life Orb!

Noctowl restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 19
Noctowl used Roost!
Noctowl landed on the ground!
Noctowl regained health!

Erisiascape's Magmortar is paralyzed! It can't move!

Noctowl restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 20
Noctowl used Night Shade!
Erisiascape's Magmortar lost 15% of its health!
Erisiascape's Magmortar fainted!

Noctowl switched in taking rocks damage and ended that confrontation on full health, so the parahax at the end didn't matter, I would have lived to kill it anyway. If the Fire Blast hit I would have died, but it balances out the fact I not only got paralyzed by the first t-bolt but I got parahaxed.

If I didn't get the Para I would have comfortably Life Orb stalled it. Smart player that went for Focus Blast on turns where it roosted instead of T-Bolt as T-Bolt does nothing to it after it Roosts. A super effective LO Focus Blast only did 65% to it. It just shows you that against a Scarf variant Noctowl can comfortably wall it.

 

[Hot N Cold]

My favourite set for Magmortar actually is Expert Belt, have a good coverage and can be a good lure for many things.

 

[Sabinfrost]

My favourite set for Magmortar actually is Expert Belt, have a good coverage and can be a good lure for many things.

I actually think I'd prefer that as well if I wasn't running Scarfed.

It takes a lot from rocks so it can't switch constantly and as I showed above, an average special wall can take it on.

 

[Darker than Black]

I use a Specs variant of Magmortar.

 

[CrazyBacon]

I actually think I'd prefer that as well if I wasn't running Scarfed.

It takes a lot from rocks so it can't switch constantly and as I showed above, an average special wall can take it on.

I dont see how noctowl beats magmortar, thunderbolt has 15PP and roost only has 10. which means that after you've used all 10 roosts, you still have to survive another 5 thunderbolts, ie noctowl loses noctowwl cant do any significant damage back either.

Moreover magmortar can just wait for noctowl to be fully paralysed, from thunderbolt and then it wins, you just got lucky that your opponents fire blast missed the turn after you got paralysed.

 

[Byrne]

I dont see how noctowl beats magmortar, thunderbolt has 15PP and roost only has 10. which means that after you've used all 10 roosts, you still have to survive another 5 thunderbolts, ie noctowl loses noctowwl cant do any significant damage back either.

Moreover magmortar can just wait for noctowl to be fully paralysed, from thunderbolt and then it wins, you just got lucky that your opponents fire blast missed the turn after you got paralysed.

Well you're forgetting Life Orb recoil which, with Stealth Rock involved, kills Magmortar in 8 turns (I think). And then if it's scarved, you can use that as a nice pivot switch. I'm not trying to justify Noctowl's viability, but Noctowl does take on Life Orb Magmortar (not much else though <_<)

 

[Sabinfrost]

I dont see how noctowl beats magmortar, thunderbolt has 15PP and roost only has 10. which means that after you've used all 10 roosts, you still have to survive another 5 thunderbolts, ie noctowl loses noctowwl cant do any significant damage back either.

Moreover magmortar can just wait for noctowl to be fully paralysed, from thunderbolt and then it wins, you just got lucky that your opponents fire blast missed the turn after you got paralysed.

Owl does about 30% back with Night-shade, if you Roost you only take about 20% damage from t-bolt (takes away the weak), so you can Roost two turns, and Night Shade or phase it, it takes lots of damage from rocks.

Dude, he got lucky that he 1. got the para from t-bolt and 2. haxed me with it. That's a way lower chance than missing with Fire Blast...

The point is that his coverage moves don't even come close to taking out Noctowl unless you switch into t-bolt with rocks up, in which case it's a 2hko. Noctowl takes around 30ish percent from Fire Blast and can just recover it and the rocks damage off. It's not a complete counter but it's still capable of walling it.

Well you're forgetting Life Orb recoil which, with Stealth Rock involved, kills Magmortar in 8 turns (I think). And then if it's scarved, you can use that as a nice pivot switch. I'm not trying to justify Noctowl's viability, but Noctowl does take on Life Orb Magmortar (not much else though <_<)

Hey, Noctowl takes on tons of stuff lol, it's one of the best Lilligant or Exeggutor counters there is, it's immune to Sleep, resists bug and grass, completely immune to ground and ghost.. Hell, it comfortably walls Gengar and Mespirit unless they set up on it (or mespirit has psyshock) in which case you can phase them (bar getting ohkoed by Mespirit).

 

[CrazyBacon]

Roost has 16 dude, and it does about 30% back with Night-shade, if you Roost you only take about 20% damage from t-bolt (takes away the weak), so you can Roost two turns, and Night Shade or phase it, it takes lots of damage from rocks.

Dude, he got lucky that he 1. got the para from t-bolt and 2. haxed me with it. That's a way lower chance than missing with Fire Blast...

The point is that his coverage moves don't even come close to taking out Noctowl unless you switch into t-bolt with rocks and Noctowl takes around 30ish percent from Fire Blast and can just recover it and the rocks damage off.

If you payed attention to your logs, magmortar outspeeds noctowl and does about 50% with thunderbolt. Also thunderbolt still has more PP factoring in the bumped up PP on PO, so noctowl still loses.

'He got lucky that 1' wow are you serious? thats a 10% chance of being paralysed. 1 in 10. Statistically speaking if he used thunderbolt 10 times you'd be paralysed somewhen, now you're fighting against a 25% non moving rate. Hax wins and loses game, if you get paralysed, noctowl loses, its a shaky check at best. If your opponent used thunderbolt that turn you were paralysed noctowl loses.

so your plan when you run out of roosts is to deal 30% to magmortar when its dealing 50% too you? seems legit. what are you hoping for a critical hit on night shade? lol

You're outstalling the LO variant, as its killing itself, if your opponent is using expert belt then you've lost. but then again any decent player would just switch if they knew that they were being 'walled' and you cant switch in too anything bar a hidden power grass. Fire blast from LO Modest magmortar does 54% minimum and thunderbolt does 58% minimum, so you can only come in after something has died, but then again you could just send in something faster and that can kill it and you'd actually do something besides being set up bait for something else.

 

[Sabinfrost]

If you payed attention to your logs, magmortar outspeeds noctowl and does about 50% with thunderbolt. Also thunderbolt still has more PP factoring in the bumped up PP on PO, so noctowl still loses.

O.k, I'll just snip you there as you don't seem to understand how Roost works.

50% is on Noctowl on turns he doesn't roost from a LO Magmortar, on turns you Roost you take jack all because you are not weak to it, if he didn't get the Para fire blast wouldn't have had to miss as I would have roosted it off instead of getting Parahaxed

You completely wall fire blast, you can switch into rocks, take the fire blast and roost off the damage from both, providing it hits.

 

[CrazyBacon]

O.k, I'll just snip you there as you don't seem to understand how Roost works.

50% is on Noctowl on turns he doesn't roost from a LO Magmortar, on turns you Roost you take jack all because you are not weak to it, if he didn't get the Para fire blast wouldn't have had to miss as I would have roosted it off instead of getting Parahaxed

You completely wall fire blast, you can switch into rocks, take the fire blast and roost off the damage from both, providing it hits.

This is how the sequence of events pans out

magmortar uses SE thunderbolt dealing ~50%
Noctowl roosts 50%

next turn

Magmortar uses SE thunderbolt ~50%
Noctowl roosts.

What am I missing here? Are you insinuating noctowl outspeeds magmortar? because it isnt. I'm perplexed....

You;re still not switching into magmortar, which is what a special wall should do. blissey switches into all special attackers and forces them out, you can only come in after something has died, and you can only beat LO versions as you make them faint from recoil, you're still saccing a member to get noctowl in 2 timid scarfed fire blasts still has a great chance too KO you after stealth rocks.

 

[Sabinfrost]

This is how the sequence of events pans out

magmortar uses SE thunderbolt dealing ~50%
Noctowl roosts 50%

next turn

Magmortar uses SE thunderbolt ~50%
Noctowl roosts.

What am I missing here? Are you insinuating noctowl outspeeds magmortar? because it isnt. I'm perplexed....

You;re still not switching into magmortar, which is what a special wall should do. blissey switches into all special attackers and forces them out, you can only come in after something has died, and you can only beat LO versions as you make them faint from recoil, you're still saccing a member to get noctowl in 2 timid scarfed fire blasts still has a great chance too KO you after stealth rocks.

If you Roost you lose your flying typing for that turn. Hence not being SE.

You can easily switch into anything but a LO T-Bolt, which you can take if you predict Magmortar coming in and switch in the same turn. Something doesn't need to die.

Timid Scarf Fire Blast does hardly anything to Noctowl. Especially not when it has instant recovery, and that's providing it even hits. If you look at the log a Life Orb Focus Blast (same BP, no STAB, + LO boost) did around 30%, so a scarfed Fire Blast would be lucky to do about 35%. Even after rocks with Leftovers and the chance of it missing, you shouldn't die as if you get off a single Roost, it can't kill you bar a crit.

 

[jake]

If you Roost you lose your flying typing for that turn. Hence not being SE.

You can easily switch into anything but a LO T-Bolt, which you can take if you predict Magmortar coming in and switch in the same turn. Something doesn't need to die.

Timid Scarf Fire Blast does nothing to Noctowl, at all. Especially not when it has instant recovery, and that's providing it even hits. If you look at the log a Life Orb Focus Blast did around 30%, so a scarfed Fire Blast would be lucky to do about 35%

You only lose your Flying-type after the Roost, meaning Thunderbolt is super effective unless you're running ScarfRoost Noctowl.

 

[Sabinfrost]

You only lose your Flying-type after the Roost, meaning Thunderbolt is super effective unless you're running ScarfRoost Noctowl.

Or carrying T-Wave, which is a great way to cripple a sweeper letting you roost afterwards

 

[erisia]

Haha, that was a fun game. gg :p

 

[Sabinfrost]

Haha, that was a fun game. gg :p

Yeah cheers, it was entertaining.