Minior Discussion

Following up on your post, can Decidueye take Keldeo/Azumarill?
A specially defensive variant would probably be able to take on Keldeo comfortably. I think Azu is too hard of a hitter even if you go phys def, due to huge powerplay rough and knock off, although you could probably pivot on the water STAB.
 
I definitely think that the Shell Smash set offers a lot of potential to take advantage of Minior's mixed options in order to take down checks/counters that would otherwise stop him in his tracks, especially considering that you aren't inclined to invest much speed outside of enough to outrun stuff in Shields Up form after a Shell Smash.

For example, with minimal SpA investment and HP Ice:

+2 56 SpA Minior Hidden Power Ice vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 420-496 (100.7 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 56 SpA Minior Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 436-516 (114.1 - 135%) -- guaranteed OHKO

On the other hand, should you have trouble removing other Pokes that wall and kill Minior with the rest of your team, HP Fire can be used:

+2 240 SpA Minior Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 332-392 (94.3 - 111.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 192 SpA Minior Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Mega Scizor: 344-408 (100.2 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

With this amount of investment, even bulky Mega Scizor can't switch into you expecting to take a Stone Edge/Acrobatics/Earthquake, then stop your sweep with the threat of Bullet Punch.
 
Fun fact, decidueye is a bulky pivot who can Defog and hit rock types for super effective.....
Like I said, it might be worth a try! I'm just pointing out the other side (kind of devil's advocate), which may come accross as defeatist, which isn't my intention. However, I feel like the downsides of running Sun on top of a 'Mon that is already weak to Stealth Rock could potentially, and likely will, outweigh the upsides of removing a STAB/EQ for Solarbeam, that's all :)
 
Running sun isn't a downside if it's your team's main strategy. Actually, I'm the only one who has advocated mixed Minior heavily until recently and the only one making a point for Solar Beam on Minior. The thing about Solar Beam versus EQ or Stone Edge is the opportunity cost of running any of these moves. By running EQ, Stone Edge and Acrobatics, I have to find other Pokemon who can deal with water/ground types.By running Stone Edge, Acrobatics and Solar Beam, I have to find other Pokemon who can deal with Steel, Poison and Rock types. Et cetera. If your team's strategy already has multiple Pokemon with access to ground moves, you can afford to let Minior run Solar Beam. Since we've already established that Minior is slightly team-reliant, by reminding ourselves that every move has different opportunity costs in terms of what other Pokemon we should run to support Minior, you get a wider spectrum of possibilities of teams to put Minior in.

If I didn't word it properly: If we run Solar Beam Minior, we need something else with EQ on our team, but suddenly do not need something that beats bulky Water and Ground types. If we run EQ instead, we need to choose Pokemon that can defeat bulky water and grounds. Entertaining the possibility of Solar Beam on Minior gives us a whole new set of viable partners and strategies to run with Minior, as does using EQ instead.

It is, however, appropriate of you to act as a devil's advocate. If not to express yourself personally then to test the merit of the Pokemon in question and our (or at least my) resolve in making the Pokemon work optimally.
 
Running sun isn't a downside if it's your team's main strategy. Actually, I'm the only one who has advocated mixed Minior heavily until recently and the only one making a point for Solar Beam on Minior. The thing about Solar Beam versus EQ or Stone Edge is the opportunity cost of running any of these moves. By running EQ, Stone Edge and Acrobatics, I have to find other Pokemon who can deal with water/ground types.By running Stone Edge, Acrobatics and Solar Beam, I have to find other Pokemon who can deal with Steel, Poison and Rock types. Et cetera. If your team's strategy already has multiple Pokemon with access to ground moves, you can afford to let Minior run Solar Beam. Since we've already established that Minior is slightly team-reliant, by reminding ourselves that every move has different opportunity costs in terms of what other Pokemon we should run to support Minior, you get a wider spectrum of possibilities of teams to put Minior in.

If I didn't word it properly: If we run Solar Beam Minior, we need something else with EQ on our team, but suddenly do not need something that beats bulky Water and Ground types. If we run EQ instead, we need to choose Pokemon that can defeat bulky water and grounds. Entertaining the possibility of Solar Beam on Minior gives us a whole new set of viable partners and strategies to run with Minior, as does using EQ instead.

It is, however, appropriate of you to act as a devil's advocate. If not to express yourself personally then to test the merit of the Pokemon in question and our (or at least my) resolve in making the Pokemon work optimally.
I like you and this conversation quite a lot, to be honest :D Another thing to watch for is this: having to set up Sun, then Shell Smash, and hopefully Shields down seems a bit like too much.

Don't get me wrong thought, this thing seems hella strong and fun, and I will definitely be using it in the future, and its great that you are thinking outside the box! You are also right about the Solarbeam vs EQ thing too. There are lots of EQ running around, and barely any Grass moves.
 
I like you and this conversation quite a lot, to be honest :D Another thing to watch for is this: having to set up Sun, then Shell Smash, and hopefully Shields down seems a bit like too much.

Don't get me wrong thought, this thing seems hella strong and fun, and I will definitely be using it in the future, and its great that you are thinking outside the box! You are also right about the Solarbeam vs EQ thing too. There are lots of EQ running around, and barely any Grass moves.
There's a lot of pressure to get rid of Minior. If they don't immediately break your shields you'll become a status immune mixed sweeper with +4 on both offensive stats and speed. The priority problem beats all Minior sets so -2 defenses doesn't really matter. You'll either go +2 no shields or +4 with shields. Either can sweep with Minior's coverage.

I think it's as feasible as any other Pokemon with Solar Beam. Minior's typing is perfect for a sun team on either side. Water moves do normal damage to it and enemy Solar Beams are only neutral anyway. Enemy fire moves are also resisted so Minior can fight very well the Pokemon that threaten grass/fire types that usually see play under Sun. I'll admit EQ is the simpler choice that can be put in more teams, but in a Sun team you can run Minior with Solar Beam. And, oddly enough, Minior counters most Sun pokemon very well, too.
 
There's a lot of pressure to get rid of Minior. If they don't immediately break your shields you'll become a status immune mixed sweeper with +4 on both offensive stats and speed. The priority problem beats all Minior sets so -2 defenses doesn't really matter. You'll either go +2 no shields or +4 with shields. Either can sweep with Minior's coverage.

I think it's as feasible as any other Pokemon with Solar Beam. Minior's typing is perfect for a sun team on either side. Water moves do normal damage to it and enemy Solar Beams are only neutral anyway. Enemy fire moves are also resisted so Minior can fight very well the Pokemon that threaten grass/fire types that usually see play under Sun. I'll admit EQ is the simpler choice that can be put in more teams, but in a Sun team you can run Minior with Solar Beam. And, oddly enough, Minior counters most Sun pokemon very well, too.
I wish you the best of luck with Minior. I really really hope it turns out to be viable! I think it's very interesting as it is the only slightly offensively designed 'Mon that gets Shell Smash :)
 
I'm not a huge fan of the solarbeam/sun idea, but I definitely think it could work. I do like the idea of taking it mixed quite a bit tho.
 
The default Minior used on the Sun and Moon site official artwork kind of reminds me of a Katamari. Makes me like this cutie even more.
 
Did people forget that Minior shield form is immune to status conditions? The more I hear about this pokemon, the more I love it! This is becoming Tyrantrum style love!
 
Did people forget that Minior shield form is immune to status conditions? The more I hear about this pokemon, the more I love it! This is becoming Tyrantrum style love!
For real? That makes it quite a bit better honestly, I had no idea that was the case. Do you mind directing me to proof?
 
Yeah, I was suprised no one talked about. The lowest I can see this thing is UU, and being the top of it as well. Really interested in this mon!
Another thing to keep in mind is that the armored form is immune to status effects, so no need to worry about stuff like Klefki while you're setting up.
I would never forget anything about Minior ♡




I'm not a huge fan of the solarbeam/sun idea, but I definitely think it could work. I do like the idea of taking it mixed quite a bit tho.
No, don't even worry about it. I admitted earlier that Solar Beam Minior should NOT be the primary Minior set. It was not designed to work in the sun and it does not have the moveset to completely complement that, but it DOES have attributes that work well in tandem with sun and that sun helps with.

Mixed can work. You can go for the Dazzling Gleam set I mentioned earlier. Dragons and dark types are prominent and more often physically bulky. Dazzling Gleam gets around that. If you don't run EQ or Stone Edge on Minior then you need another Pokemon in your team who can get rid of Pokemon Minior would get rid of if it had those moves, then use the Dazzling Gleam to take on a whole new set of enemies. In particular Dazzling Gleam gets rid of Guzzlord/Hydreigon/Kommo-o, though STAB Acrobatics would OHKO max defense Kommo-o anyway three times.
 
I would never forget anything about Minior ♡






No, don't even worry about it. I admitted earlier that Solar Beam Minior should NOT be the primary Minior set. It was not designed to work in the sun and it does not have the moveset to completely complement that, but it DOES have attributes that work well in tandem with sun and that sun helps with.

Mixed can work. You can go for the Dazzling Gleam set I mentioned earlier. Dragons and dark types are prominent and more often physically bulky. Dazzling Gleam gets around that. If you don't run EQ or Stone Edge on Minior then you need another Pokemon in your team who can get rid of Pokemon Minior would get rid of if it had those moves, then use the Dazzling Gleam to take on a whole new set of enemies. In particular Dazzling Gleam gets rid of Guzzlord/Hydreigon/Kommo-o, though STAB Acrobatics would OHKO max defense Kommo-o anyway three times.
Don't give up though budyy <3 The less popular of us have gotta get known for something.
 
Definitely one of the most promising mons, the fact that it cannot be statused with Shields Up is what changed my perspective from "maybe in OU" to "This mon is going to be a pain in OU", it basically forces to attack it because outside of SR or direct attacks you cannot damage him.

I think people will realize that you need to be able to OHKO it right away so maybe a Focus Sash set could work on it, like Shell Smash on the turn they are bringing their check like M-Scizor, take a BP and retaliate with HP Fire, then sweep.
 
Definitely one of the most promising mons, the fact that it cannot be statused with Shields Up is what changed my perspective from "maybe in OU" to "This mon is going to be a pain in OU", it basically forces to attack it because outside of SR or direct attacks you cannot damage him.

I think people will realize that you need to be able to OHKO it right away so maybe a Focus Sash set could work on it, like Shell Smash on the turn they are bringing their check like M-Scizor, take a BP and retaliate with HP Fire, then sweep.
Focus Sash is actually brilliant. You can go full glass cannon Minior and use Shell Smash repeatedly until they try to OHKO you. With your -4 defenses you'll proc Focus Sash getting hit by a Togepi, but you'll have +6 on every offense and OHKO everything on the enemy team. More so, Minior is not damaged by sandstorm, only hail. The issue with the set is that it instaloses to multi hit/hail for the rare time you'll encounter that/SR. On top of that, Focus Sash activating gives you the 110 power Acrobatics. Unfortunately, if they just try to hit you and don't OHKO you you'll have to go at them with 60 offenses and a gimped Acrobatics. You could go 0 defensive EVs, of course.

I like the idea of a Minior set that is even hammier than the original set.
 
Focus Sash is actually brilliant. You can go full glass cannon Minior and use Shell Smash repeatedly until they try to OHKO you. With your -4 defenses you'll proc Focus Sash getting hit by a Togepi, but you'll have +6 on every offense and OHKO everything on the enemy team. More so, Minior is not damaged by sandstorm, only hail. The issue with the set is that it instaloses to multi hit/hail for the rare time you'll encounter that/SR. On top of that, Focus Sash activating gives you the 110 power Acrobatics. Unfortunately, if they just try to hit you and don't OHKO you you'll have to go at them with 60 offenses and a gimped Acrobatics. You could go 0 defensive EVs, of course.

I like the idea of a Minior set that is even hammier than the original set.
You are right, White Herb seems more consistent and less team reliant, still when the meta develops I can see a Focus Sash having some popularity I guess, it also has a niche as a good status absorber so I can see this breaking Stall teams with ease, in the ends it still looks as one of the best designed mons and I dont think it will be lower than UU at worst, hope this mon adapts to the meta because its already one of my favorites this gen.
 
You are right, White Herb seems more consistent and less team reliant, still when the meta develops I can see a Focus Sash having some popularity I guess, it also has a niche as a good status absorber so I can see this breaking Stall teams with ease, in the ends it still looks as one of the best designed mons and I dont think it will be lower than UU at worst, hope this mon adapts to the meta because its already one of my favorites this gen.
The one use I see for Sash is if White Herb becomes super common, you could use Sash as a bait. But it would seem super obvious if you send it into, say, a Mega-Manectric lol and if you Smash and white herb doesn't go off, then it also becomes pretty obvious there.
 
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned before, but do we know if Acrobatics would work with the Flying Z-Crystal? Or does it not actually count as becoming consumed?
 

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