I'm fairly certain I saw that Z-Move items are not consumed after use.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Minior Discussion
- Thread starter Nexus
- Start date
Just realized another issue for our little friend here. Unaware. In particular Unaware Quagsire and Clefable. Quagsire can live a hit and easily OHKO after you have set up. And, if your shields are down, Clefable can come in, live a hit, and status you. Not good times.
Unaware's been nerfed this generation so it only works when the opponent attacks you. When you attack them I think your stat boosts are still taken into account.
afaik it still remains the same.
Unaware mons are almost always a problem for setup sweepers, Torkoal could be nice for pairing with a Solarbeam Minior, Torkoal sets sun, can spin, set SR, kill M-Scizor and Ferro.
This was debunked like, days ago. Why are people still posting this?
My bad, must've missed that.
Anyway, you will need to have the dedicated walls down but that's the case with most fast sweepers. Stallbreaker Heatran and Specs Volcanion will be good teammates for it, maybe Magic Guard + Calm Mind Clefable as well.
I guess that's an odd case for Solar Beam Minior - it beats Quagsire unlike its other sets. The good thing is you can't be burned by Scald while you're setting up and Quagsire's SpA is not high enough to OHKO with STAB, especially in Sun.
Of course, if to not choose Solar Beam, just take another Pokemon with grass coverage and get rid of Quagsire first.
Of course, if to not choose Solar Beam, just take another Pokemon with grass coverage and get rid of Quagsire first.
If stall mons like Quagsire and Clefable become consistent problems for Minior I could see Mega Venusaur, or even just chlorophyll Venusaur if on a sun team, becoming a great partner for Minior. He reliably takes care of those two plus Minior and Mega Venusaur's weaknesses compliment each other fairly well.
+2 252+ Atk Minior Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 345-406 (87.5 - 103%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Magic Guard Clefable can't switch into Minior and can not tank it no matter what. The best it can do is risk getting OHKOed to Paralyze Minior. Clefable would not have the time to set Calm Minds up against Minior and with the new Paralysis mechanics, Minior still outspeeds Clefable during paralysis. The issue is really just priority users and bulky water/ground types, regardless of ability. Quagsire is both, of course. Thankfully Minior in sun is basically antimeta though.
Unaware Clef is the standard on stall tho. and that one is the standard, not Magic Guard.
"INB4 Unaware has been nerfed meme" no it hasn't its exactly the same as always.
So Clef is still a big stop to Minior.
What's everyone opinion on Minior's best special sweeper set?
For a sun team:
-Shell Smash
-Solar Beam
-HP Fire
-Power Gem/Dazzling Gleam/Psychic
It's been discussed before but, he IS a good sun team partner since Torkoal and Ninetales are weak to ground but Minior is Flying allowing for a safe switch in and an easy sweep.
It would be more viable when tutors are added to the games. He would most likely be given access to Earth Power.
For a sun team:
-Shell Smash
-Solar Beam
-HP Fire
-Power Gem/Dazzling Gleam/Psychic
It's been discussed before but, he IS a good sun team partner since Torkoal and Ninetales are weak to ground but Minior is Flying allowing for a safe switch in and an easy sweep.
It would be more viable when tutors are added to the games. He would most likely be given access to Earth Power.
Last edited:
Unaware has not been nerfed. That's true, but I wasn't going to question that.
If Minior has already gone for the Shell Smash it will defeat a specially defensive Unaware Clefable if SR is up, since Acrobatics can then have 110 power and Clefable will bring Minior to Shields Down.
Even that is an odd circumstance, but it means that our only real worry is a physically bulky Unaware Clefable. Fortunately, Volcanion covers Clefable as well, resisting Clefable's Moonblast and hitting too hard for it to really fight back.
Physically bulky Unaware Clefable (AKA the only Clefable Minior always loses to) vs Volcanion
252+ SpA Volcanion Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Clefable: 234-276 (59.5 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
The best Clefable can do in return is Thunder Wave if that is being run or a Moonblast that'll basically do no damage.
Of course, you're right that physical tank Unaware Clefable beats Minior. I tried everything and Minior just loses to that unless Clefable is already very weak, but this solidifies Volcanion's place as a good partner for Minior.
I meant stall in regard to unaware Clefable which ignores those boosts. Mega Venusaur handles it and Quagsire comfortably outside of sun and if you run HP fire on it also becomes a good answer to Scizor leaving Minior with less priority to worry about.
I know, Mega Venusaur IS a good idea. It resists rocks, neutral from Ice Shards, beats the hell out of Azumarill, resists Aqua Jet, can run HP fire for Scizor/Ferrothorn as well, resists, er, Accelrock (I guess), Mach Punch, does well against Bullet Punch and can work perfectly in Sun alongside Minior. I was just saying in regards to a generic Minior set versus Unaware Clefable to the other person who had posted because I felt he exaggerated how much of a stop to Minior Clefable is.
Yea, Mega Venu actually seems pretty great for him tbh. Additionally beating those Bulky Water and Ground types
So we've so far established that:
Volcanion, M-Venasaur, and Decidueye are all good support for Minior. Sun+Solarbeam is a possibility for those who want to better hit ground types. And the best looking sets so far are Shell Smash physical attacker with HP and Atk, and Shell Smash Mixed attacker.
Sound about right?
Volcanion, M-Venasaur, and Decidueye are all good support for Minior. Sun+Solarbeam is a possibility for those who want to better hit ground types. And the best looking sets so far are Shell Smash physical attacker with HP and Atk, and Shell Smash Mixed attacker.
Sound about right?
Actually, there's something I want to add as a good partner of Minior's.
That would be Excadrill.
Excadrill resists ice, is immune to electric and also works in a sand team with Minior. On top of that, Excadrill solves Minior's problem with rocks because of Rapid Spin and, by putting its own Stealth Rock up on the enemy's side, many 2HKOs become OHKOs and Minior no longer has to deal with the looming threat of being killed by someone who chose to put Focus Sash on their Swords Dance Torrent Samurott. Another option is Donphan who offers similar support but is also able to fight Garchomp better than Excadrill because of Ice Shard.
I should add more to Excadrill's case:
It is immune to electric and resists rock in Volcanion's case, having SE STAB against both.
It resists psychic, flying and bug and can run rock moves to OHKO non-Scizor Pokemon of those types if you choose to run Mega Venusaur.
That would be Excadrill.
Excadrill resists ice, is immune to electric and also works in a sand team with Minior. On top of that, Excadrill solves Minior's problem with rocks because of Rapid Spin and, by putting its own Stealth Rock up on the enemy's side, many 2HKOs become OHKOs and Minior no longer has to deal with the looming threat of being killed by someone who chose to put Focus Sash on their Swords Dance Torrent Samurott. Another option is Donphan who offers similar support but is also able to fight Garchomp better than Excadrill because of Ice Shard.
I should add more to Excadrill's case:
It is immune to electric and resists rock in Volcanion's case, having SE STAB against both.
It resists psychic, flying and bug and can run rock moves to OHKO non-Scizor Pokemon of those types if you choose to run Mega Venusaur.
Last edited:
So I'm going to say something, and you guys are going to tell me I'm out of my mind, which is probably true. What about a core of Heatran & Torterra to support Minior?
EDIT: I always post before finishing my thoughts... Anyways, Zone will probably be a good partner, off the top of my head, due to it handling Scizor, Ferro, and Skarm and also baiting in Ground attacks which could potentially give Minior a favorable switch (although be wary of Stone Edge, which is usually ran alongside it). Seems particularly good against ScarfLando, which would likely lock itself into EQ, just off the top of my head.
I was going to suggest a core of Minior/Volcanion/Excadrill with support for EQ users and miscellaneous coverage.
Trying Torterra is a good sign though. Making obscure things work is how you get them into OU.
Trying Torterra is a good sign though. Making obscure things work is how you get them into OU.
I was just thinking that paired up with heatran, the only things that I can't deal with are water and electric, and torterra, while not phenomenal, kinda does that. At this point I'm really just tossing ideas around and trying to find some cool things to try. Overall tho, it's really not that great a core. No hazard removal, not much opportunity to steal momentum, etc. it does boast an immunity to sandstorm, tho. :P
As a go-to, FWG cores will always be good for the basis of a balanced team, and with each new Gen, you have tons more options. Heatran is still (sadly) one of the only defensive Fire-types that are viable (unless you are using that cleeaan Rotom-H), but you have other Grass options like Amoonguss, Mega-Venu, Tangrowth, Bulu. And Rotom-W will probably be the Water-type of choice, although now there is Toxapex among Alomomola, Gastrodon Azumarill etc.
Keeping the post related to Minior, I think that Heatran, Mega-Venu and potentially Tapu Fini form a solid balanced core that provides great defensive synergy, as well as Rocks, Defog, and offensive presence to chip at 'Mons to help Minior sweep. If the other two 'Mons are tailored to removing Minior counters and baiting in favorable matchups so that Minior can set up a Smash, I think you've got a team that can even succeed if a Minior sweep fails (mainly because VenuTran is really freaking good by themselves.)
Wait, what?
I honestly feel that Stealth Rocks and/or Sand are going to be HUGE for Minior. There are a few mons that he either barely missed OHKOs on, or has to roll for them, and both could easily rectify that issue, ON TOP of removing the issue of focus sash.
Paralysis doesn't lower your speed as much anymore. I'd have to go grab the exact numbers tho.