I am not sure if I will be able to get reqs because I'm not a very good ladder player and I am having some trouble; I'm not very patient. However, I still believe that a lot of people respect me as a player and I feel as though people respect my opinion of the metagame, so I would like to post here about my opinion on Machoke and my stance on this suspect. Instead of actually voting myself, I hope I will be able to convince you that banning Machoke is healthy for the metagame. Please read the whole post ;3
First, I would like to address some of the arguments for keeping Machoke in the tier which I believe are invalid or I just do not like.
"Machoke is healthy for the tier and without it a bunch of mons in the tier would get out of hand." - The reason I believe this argument is invalid is because it is not like Machoke is the only check for threats in this tier. For example, Machoke checks Misdreavus. Regice also checks Misdreavus. Misdreavus isn't broken because Machoke is gone.
“We’re about to get drops that counter Machoke perfectly like Rotom-S, Muk, and Pelipper.” - First, this has already been covered in this thread; it is not a valid argument for the reasons stated by Anty and Megazard. But in addition, Machoke’s coverage is amazing. It can run surprise Guts Ice Punch, Earthquake, and Thunder Punch respectively, OHKOing or 2HKOing all of these Pokemon while easily taking hits from them with the right spread. This just shows how invalid this argument is.
DO NOT LET THIS ARGUMENT INFLUENCE YOUR OPINION. AT ALL. (If this was not clear).
OK, here’s some more valid arguments against the Machoke ban.
“If we ban Machoke, Monferno will become way too meta-centralizing because if you don’t use it, you lose to bulky Normals.” - OK, I was trying to think of a way to say this argument without it sounding bad, but it probably sounds bad anyway. Sorry. First of all, you forgot Mienfoo and Scraggy. :I Anyway, how BAD is it that Monferno is our only super-viable Fighting-type? These bulky Normal-types that this argument talks about are usually set-up bait for many Pokemon in the tier and are easily weakened by powerful other attacks like Stoutland’s Return. Not to mention, this is only talking about STAB fighting type moves; there are many other Pokemon that can use Fighting-type moves in this tier, like Simisear and Stoutland. In addition, most teams don't use Machoke or Monferno, and statistically most of them still win against bulky Normal-types. Overall, this is a valid argument, but certainly not a reason to vote no ban.
“You can play around Machoke if you are prepared.” - Yes, I get this argument. However, a lot of this ‘playing around’ usually can be PP stalled or beaten by Dynamic Punch confusion giving those competitive 50/50s. Not only that, isn’t this true for all Pokemon in this tier? Yes, I get that the fact that this is true for all Pokemon in the tier could be taken as a portion of the other argument, but it’s clear that it’s harder to play around Machoke than most or all other threats in this tier.
Now some arguments for the ban, which is (obviously) what I support.
"Machoke makes the tier less fun." - OK, OK, I know this argument is kind of bad. No Guard Dynamic Punch sucks and confusion is a terrible mechanic. Isn't the goal of this video game to have fun? It's not like this is our future and we have to be super successful at this to get anywhere in life. The goal of this game is to have fun, and Machoke prevents this. If this isn't reason to ban Machoke, I don't know what is.
"Machoke fits on too many teams and playstyles." - I feel like others have already stated this point, but it is important to note that Machoke fits on stall with the likes of Clefairy, balance (with virtually anything), and also hyper offense, as it enjoys wreaking havoc with Spikes. Not only does it fit on almost all playstyles, it's a blanket check which can check so many things in this tier. I will echo the words of someone that I forgot right now (if it's you, tell me); "I see a lot of teams in the pu squad dump thread that say 'I added Machoke because I needed a check to X, Y, and Z." Sure, perhaps this is the definition of a blanket check, but it's a blanket check with an offensive presence that fits on all playstyles. Sounds broken to me.
"Machoke is oppressive to the teambuilding environment." -
ManOfMany said:
For a balanced team to be successful against Machoke, they either need to run a Gourgeist-Super, or run two Machoke checks (usually one a switch-in, the other something that can hit it really hard) so something like swanna + grumpig or grumpig + mawile. I get that there's nothing wrong with preparing for an S-rank pokemon, but what happens is a LOT of teams end up looking the same or similar.
MoM explains this point perfectly; there's basically three varieties of teams in this meta. Gourgeist-Super teams, two Machoke checks teams, or HO with like two birds. If you don't bring one of these, I feel like I lose to Machoke. Sure, I guess this is controversial, but Machoke's removal from the metagame would result in some freedom with teambuilding. Grass-types that are not Gourgeist-XL would get a chance to shine. I can go back to running Offensive Swanna regularly. Do you see what I mean?
"Confusion means that Machoke can break its checks sometimes." - As you'll see in the battle, Machoke can beat its checks by either shrugging off attacks from them or having them hit themselves in their confusion. I feel like I've covered this already, but it is a core reason of why it's broken.
I think these arguments are the core of why Machoke should be banned, but here's a replay that perfectly shows why Machoke is broken:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pususpecttest-395166449 vs.
ShuckleDeath
A few things happened here with Machoke to note;
-He could have weakened my Machoke with his Metang, but he hit himself twice due to those competitive 50/50s and didn’t get off any damage.
-It was impossible to play around near the end of the battle because from full, even Politoed’s Scarf Hydro + Stoutland’s CB Return couldn’t kill it. He tried to double into Stoutland predicting my Lapras, but I literally just went for Dynamic Punch and won.
-Stunfisk’s Static scares out many other physical attackers in the tier. However, Machoke doesn’t care. It could rest up and beat it 1v1 due to Knock Off. This is true for the majority of the walls in the tier.
This shows in action just some of the reasons why I feel as though Machoke should be
banned. It’s not just this battle that things like this happen; it’s most battles.
TL;DR: [21:46:52] Chrisloud:D punch makes tier not fun
thanks for reading :)