Reqs Funbot28: can we all admit that Mega Mence and P-don are th eonly reason Ubers is not in SPL...
8-bit CPU: n
8-bit CPU: kind of
8-bit CPU: but not rly
dogknees: spl?
Reqs Funbot28: i cant see any other reasoning lol
Lord Outrage ☭: loooool
Lord Outrage ☭: admit alone nig
Lord Outrage ☭: they are not the reason
8-bit CPU: it's the palyers who slammed the tier
Lord Outrage ☭: they are something
Lord Outrage ☭: tds used
Lord Outrage ☭: to kick ubers out
Lord Outrage ☭: ask dice
Lord Outrage ☭: he is frens with ciele
Drangonn: Why is Outrage not voice
Unoko: you mean trout?
8-bit CPU: y
Reqs Funbot28: but I believe there centralization and ominscienty presence theyt have on the tier is what makes people bash ORAS Ubers no?
Lord Outrage ☭: and gay tds
8-bit CPU: omniscient presence? u mean omnipresence rite
Reqs Funbot28: yes sorry
Reqs Funbot28: I feel a suspect wont hurt
@Dice: banning pdon and m-mencesux
Reqs Funbot28: at lest for P_don
@Dice: bad idea af
+Cranham: you just
+Cranham: centralise the meta to kyogre
@Dice: if u wanna do that
+Cranham: also dice
@Dice: u have to rewrite the ideology of ubers
Lord Outrage ☭: play bw2
James Jimmy: Lol, Problems started an avalanche now
Lord Outrage ☭: lol
James Jimmy: Smh
Reqs Funbot28: well then maybe iban both primals
+Cranham: didnt dpp ubers have a 100% usage of kyogre
+Cranham: @ one point
aman indra: chocie specs kyurem-white usable ?
aman indra: choice*
+Cranham: is there like
@Dice: no don't use kyu-w
@Dice: use palkia.
8-bit CPU: ^
@Dice: which also sucks
+Cranham: no reason to not run dialga in dpp
8-bit CPU: but less so
Reqs Funbot28: i dont see the harm in a suspect
+Cranham: b/c of kyogre
Reqs Funbot28: it would proabaly be voted no ban anyways
@Dice: i do
8-bit CPU: suspects set a bad precedent
@Dice: why suspect something
aman indra: on paper kyurem white seems good lol
@Dice: for no reason
@Dice: u are strictly defying the premise ubers was created on
+Cranham: ORAS ubers
+Cranham: is perfectly playable
+Cranham: as it is lol
Reqs Funbot28: this definition has been scewed when mega ray came
aman indra: i think we might get another mon which will go straight to anything goes with sun and moon as well lol
+Cranham: The meta has settled overtime
8-bit CPU: mega ray had good reason
Reqs Funbot28: and now we have a guidline that we can follow
@Dice: mega ray is an anomaly
@Dice: the dichotomy of ubers is first and foremost a banlist
@Dice: and secondly a tier
aman indra: the reason why m-ray got banned is because of that iten slot
@Dice: we shouldn't flip flop the order
Reqs Funbot28: I dont think Chaos agrees with that
@Dice: b/c of the tacit argument that ubers 'isn't fun'
@Dice: i don't think you kno what ur talking about tbh
@Dice: =P
aman indra: ^
Reqs Funbot28: its more that it contradicts SMogons guidelines on centralization and abundancy, but not because its not enjoyable
James Jimmy: Dice, lol. Why do you keep discussing about something that won't be addressed officially?
@Dice: there is a thread about it
@Dice: right now
8-bit CPU: honestly i think it is equal parts tier and banlist
+Cranham: Banning Pdon / Mence doesnt solve those problems
@Dice: i already replied
+Cranham: lol
Reqs Funbot28: PR
James Jimmy: Man
@Dice: and i replied when it was made
Dilwar (): Woman
@Dice: a year ago
James Jimmy: That thread is as old as I am
@Dice: with the same opinion
+PROBLEMS: the only reason
Dilwar (): bs jj u aint 1
James Jimmy: He just bumped it
+PROBLEMS: i written that
Dilwar (): or 1 milennia oo
+PROBLEMS: is because its after now
+PROBLEMS: and its still shit
Reqs Funbot28: agree with problems
Dilwar (): same
+PROBLEMS: none of you want to play with primal groudon
James Jimmy: Facepalm
+PROBLEMS: any good player knows its bull shit
Dilwar (): Plot
Reqs Funbot28: the truth
@Dice: my opinion is: either peddle to the masses that balance ubers should become ou and to revise the tiers accordingly
@Dice: or do nothing
Reqs Funbot28: i mean besides S-Tag, XY was pretty good
+PROBLEMS: plus you can't tell me not using salamence
+PROBLEMS: isnt a good idea
+PROBLEMS: how many games have you sued it and its swept someone
+PROBLEMS: used*
+PROBLEMS: 50% of games
@Dice: i don't think anecdotes are a good measure of power
Reqs Funbot28: but ubers can now view these criterias differently now that there is precedent
@Dice: everyone remembers the games that salamence swept
@Dice: no one remembers when it doesn't sweep
@Dice: hindsight bias af
aman indra: nothing;s getting banned or suspected period lol
+PROBLEMS: i know this
@Dice: if someone could make
@Dice: a statistics thread
+PROBLEMS: i mentioned a ladder
@Dice: from the ubers ssnl logs
+PROBLEMS: just to test it
@Dice: that would be cool
+PROBLEMS: and sweep said he would consider it
+PROBLEMS: but hasn't done anything
aman indra: the only think in ubers i am currently salty about is mega gengar
+PROBLEMS: ignore shadow tag
Reqs Funbot28: vote for another ladder without primals and MMence y/y
aman indra: only because of s-tag
aman indra: nope
@Dice: i just think this idea is opening up a very precarious can of worms
aman indra: ^
@Dice: and it is not grounded in the idea that ubers should be a banlist first
Reqs Funbot28: which has already been open with mega ray
@Dice: it is mostly just 'i don't like this meta'
@Dice: 'pdon sux'
@Dice: which i agree with
aman indra: "fuck primals"
@Dice: but i can't agree with changing the tier based on that
@Dice: it is why i just play different ones.
+PROBLEMS: how to win games; use a salamence paired with a set up arceus, use a gengar to trap xern counters and groudon switch ins
+PROBLEMS: <
Reqs Funbot28: basically
aman indra: arc ground dies to grass knot ?
+PROBLEMS: you don't need to play any differently
+PROBLEMS: why would i use creative teams
+PROBLEMS: lmao
Reqs Funbot28: the risk/reward is totally unfair
aman indra: i am having great fun playing anything goes currently :p
+PROBLEMS: its been 1 year
+PROBLEMS: and you can use the teams from last year
Reqs Funbot28: we should really adress this before S&M
aman indra: the thing is this discussion leads to no changes despite arguments
+PROBLEMS: theres no change
+PROBLEMS: to anything
@Dice: there's only 3 reasons why the same teams would work
@Dice: 1) playerbase sux and can't innovate 2) no incentive to innovate 3) metagame is progressed to a point where there isn't much innovation to be had
aman indra: and why would you get primals banned and m-sala suspected when ubers is supposed to contain op mons from other tiers ?
@Dice: it's prob an amalgam of the three
+PROBLEMS: player base sucks because theres no reason to compete
+PROBLEMS: with spl being gone
@Dice: that'd be #2
+PROBLEMS: why has everyone left
@Dice: and #1
+PROBLEMS: think to yourself
RyeRaiChu: dilwar, wanna do some haxballing practice?
Reqs Funbot28: and because p-don just invalidates creativity
antacool number2: wrong
aman indra: lol
aman indra: ^
antacool number2: :]
@soviet: probs
Better Strangers: so are they gonna ban groudon
@soviet: i'll become tier leader just for u
aman indra: nope
@soviet: and ban both msala and pdon
Better Strangers: they are discussing it
Lord Outrage ☭: f soviet
@soviet: f trout
+PROBLEMS: give me tier leader
+PROBLEMS: jk
+Cranham: the problem is the players
+Cranham: arent creative lol
antacool number2: uh
antacool number2: ... but why?
RyeRaiChu: meep
+Cranham: so it just leads to linear teambuilds
+PROBLEMS: 3) metagame is progressed to a point where there isn't much innovation to be had
+PROBLEMS: dice
+PROBLEMS: this is what I've been arging
Dilwar (): f ubers
+PROBLEMS: because two pokemon re preventing a tier from moving forward
+PROBLEMS: I've played ubers since like 2011
@Dice: lots of metagames are stagnant though and are still perfectly viable
Unoko: theres a metagame
Unoko: but then theres RNG
+PROBLEMS: i know how things work
@soviet: i think thats probably the wrong argument
@Dice: p much every ou from gen1-gen5
@soviet: bw is stagnant
@soviet: bw ubers
@Dice: are at a same lvl of stagnant
@soviet: and its a great meta
antacool number2: funny that some people say players lack of creativity but complains about creative teams
+Cranham: teams need to be creative and actually effective
+Cranham: you just run random gimmicks
@Dice: if you want to progress ur argument u have to argue how/why ubers should shift the current paradigm and how/why pdon + m-mence are so gamebreaking that the tier should