OU Theorymon (Check Post #173)

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i too think that chesnaught is a bad bisharp check because it loses to aerial ace, which is a plausable unfavorable scenario
 

canno

formerly The Reptile
What I don't understand is how is Mega Altaria a better check in this meta compared to normal OU? If anything it's a worse check compared to OU because Entei can potentially get +1/+2 thanks to Defiant.
 
Okay, here's a birb core.



Talonflame spams birb, breaks many Steel-types and struggles with Rock- and Water-types. Swanna spams additional birb and hits Rock-types, as well as Heatran. Both hate bulky Electrics and Waters and can't switch into Rock-types, so Lightning Rod Empoleon is added as a pivot and tertiary birb, also serving double duty as a hazard controller. The birds can switch into Ground-(and some Fighting-)type attacks for Empoleon in return, and Swanna helps it spam Scald.

A good answer to Mega Ampharos is required, as it can KO the whole core with its Electric STAB, and they can't do much to it in return. Rock Polish Donphan is a near-perfect counter, being immune to Amphy's stabs and avoiding the 2HKO from Focus Blast (and with its new toy in Wish, it won't have the moveslot for that) while setting up a Rock Polish. Talonflame and Swanna are capable of KOing most things that bother Donphan, such as Flying- and Ground-types, while Donphan can function as backup for Empoleon by posing a more offensive threat to Steel- and Electric-types. There's obviously flexibility here if Donphan isn't your cup of tea.

Sets are up to your team needs. The largest problem I can see is that none of these have particularly outstanding statlines and rely heavily on type synergies to get work done, so the right coverage or a really solid defensive core will do you in.

Alternative discussion question: How do you handle Kyurem? I tend to rely on speed control and prediction to handle it, because I find it damn tough to switch into otherwise.
 
Alternative discussion question: How do you handle Kyurem? I tend to rely on speed control and prediction to handle it, because I find it damn tough to switch into otherwise.
I've mainly been using SpD Bronzong as it resists Kyurem's STAB and is immune to Earth Power thanks to Levitate. The addition of Recover on it is super useful to actually be able to take on special attackers, and it just takes on so many of them, plus having a Steel-type rocker that isn't trapped by MegaLix can take a large load off your back when playing against one.

Another mon I am liking a lot is Moltres, particularly these two sets:

Moltres @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Flamethrower
- Roost
- Will-O-Wisp
- Air Slash / Defog

Moltres @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hurricane
- Roost
- U-turn / Defog

Fire/Flying typing without the SR weakness is actually super cool, as you no longer lose 50% of your health trying to check Grass and Fire types, plus no LO recoil on offensive sets is great. The SpD set is one I haven't really tested yet, but SpD T-Flame is good in regular OU, so I would assume Magic Guard Moltres would be able to pull off a similar job as it does there, however the LO set I've tried and its pretty fun. Life Orb Hurricane or Fire Blast hurts like a mofo off of 125 SpA, and having U-Turn to gain momentum is also pretty sweet, especially paired with electrics like Raikou(though MegaRupt is a prob).
Speaking of Mega Camerupt, even though it is still a bit new, I feel it is super good right now, but i'll go into detail about that later.
 

Patolegend!

Fan of 1000 Arrow 'Slash
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
I've mainly been using SpD Bronzong as it resists Kyurem's STAB and is immune to Earth Power thanks to Levitate. The addition of Recover on it is super useful to actually be able to take on special attackers, and it just takes on so many of them, plus having a Steel-type rocker that isn't trapped by MegaLix can take a large load off your back when playing against one.

Another mon I am liking a lot is Moltres, particularly these two sets:

Moltres @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Flamethrower
- Roost
- Will-O-Wisp
- Air Slash / Defog

Moltres @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hurricane
- Roost
- U-turn / Defog

Fire/Flying typing without the SR weakness is actually super cool, as you no longer lose 50% of your health trying to check Grass and Fire types, plus no LO recoil on offensive sets is great. The SpD set is one I haven't really tested yet, but SpD T-Flame is good in regular OU, so I would assume Magic Guard Moltres would be able to pull off a similar job as it does there, however the LO set I've tried and its pretty fun. Life Orb Hurricane or Fire Blast hurts like a mofo off of 125 SpA, and having U-Turn to gain momentum is also pretty sweet, especially paired with electrics like Raikou(though MegaRupt is a prob).
Speaking of Mega Camerupt, even though it is still a bit new, I feel it is super good right now, but i'll go into detail about that later.

Yeah I've used Moltres a lot, and it is so good - Salemance used the bulky set against me and it is REALLY fat, while the offensive set hits like a truck, and has a pretty reasonable speed tier; with all the sun going around, it takes advantage of it well:

252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0+ SpD Mega Camerupt in Harsh Sunshine: 148-175 (43.1 - 51%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Lush!

Mega Pidgeot is another HUGE threat right now, with Focus Blast it is really difficult to stop. I ran the work up set to demolish stall, and as long as you knock off the Eviolite, it can 2HKO Chansey at +1:

+1 252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Chansey: 308-364 (47.9 - 56.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Finally Virizion is the absolute dog's bollocks, and a major threat. Capable of one-shotting almost all weather sweepers, and getting Trace straight away, a well-played Virizion can really cause trouble to most teams.

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For those participating in the tour and looking to test some teams, I'll be online in the OM room most evenings if you want to hit me up.
 
Yeah I've used Moltres a lot, and it is so good - Salemance used the bulky set against me and it is REALLY fat, while the offensive set hits like a truck, and has a pretty reasonable speed tier; with all the sun going around, it takes advantage of it well:

252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0+ SpD Mega Camerupt in Harsh Sunshine: 148-175 (43.1 - 51%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Lush!

Mega Pidgeot is another HUGE threat right now, with Focus Blast it is really difficult to stop. I ran the work up set to demolish stall, and as long as you knock off the Eviolite, it can 2HKO Chansey at +1:

+1 252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Chansey: 308-364 (47.9 - 56.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Finally Virizion is the absolute dog's bollocks, and a major threat. Capable of one-shotting almost all weather sweepers, and getting Trace straight away, a well-played Virizion can really cause trouble to most teams.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

For those participating in the tour and looking to test some teams, I'll be online in the OM room most evenings if you want to hit me up.
Ya its a badass when it doesn't decide to not magically go back to pressure. Is able to fit the role required really well (Be it a fantastic defogger) and fire absorber in most cases. Still cant stop Entei sadly due to the damn Stone Edge but hey, does lot of good with Magic Guard.

Testing gainst Pato is a viable thing. Just remember to tell him to try and not use the team that is anti-weezing cause that one is far better than his fire spammer one.
 
Hey, I don't know if this was done yet, but has there anyone discussed the viability rankings on the newest theorymon winners? On a gut feeling, id say B+/A- for zoroack, A- for cobalion, and C+ for spikes jolteon. Will post reasoning asap, and hopefully I'll be able to test them too!
 
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ANNOUNCEMENT

As this metagame is slowly starting to develop, it is beginning to make more and more sense to discuss the current slates of the Project in regards to the pokemon's impact on this metagame as well as the initial purpose, being its impact on standard OU.
To back this, I'll be throwing the current slates up in the OP and open up the discussion. I won't make a new post every time a new slate rolls in though because it isn't necessarily the primary purpose of this thread. I still want plenty of discussion on the VR, Cores, Metagame trends and all that, its just that discussing the current slate with regards to this meta is also an option now. :)
 
Zoroark B+
In my opinion it should start from B+ because it has a good speed tier (105), mixed cabilities alongside STAB Dark Pulse (which hit all Psychic super-effectively) plus STAB fighting moves which provide useful coverage alongside Flamethrower. Last, but not least, there is the ability Illusion which can provide some useful mind games even with the team preview if your last member of the team has opposite weaknesses i.e. Gengar which is immune to Normal, Fightning and Earth while being weak to Psychic, Ghost and Dark. The "core" Zoroark/Gengar is only an example on how it can be used because Zoroark hasn't the bulk to survive many hits and it's the problem with it: once revealed it can use only its speed -which is good but not outstanding in a meta where 110 is the main benchmark- and its offensive abilities (120 SpA is good while 105 Atk is "usable" at best with the aid of a Life Orb). The access to both Swords Dance and Nasty Plot help to get past some threats using force alone.

Cobalion B+
In my opinion it should start from B+ because is similar to Magnezone while the former being more fast (108 base speed is quite good yet despite being lower than 110) and defensive on the physical side and the latter slower but more offensive on the special spectrum but -in my opinion- they have the same impact on the meta with a different second STAB move.

Jolteon C-
In my opinion it should start from C- because, although normally it is unviable in OU, now has the possibility to run fast Spikes alongside a 130 base speed tier (which is a huge trait because Spikes have low distribution) although between Rapid Spinners, Defoggers and Magic Bouncer it has a difficult time. Even if we pair it alongside Bisharp/Entei which greatly benefits from Defog (a very poor version of Deoxis Defense+Bisharp core), we find a huge weakness to Earth attacks such as Earthquake ===> in my opinion Jolteon is largely outclassed by Klefki which has priority Spikes and screen support and an actual bulk including weaknesses and resistances; also, it still remains frail on the physical side thus making it a middling emergency check towards some special attacks and then hit the opponent.

P.S. In this "other OU metagame" regular Venusaur should be ranked higher than D rank in my opinion because, although Sun lasts only 5 or 8 turns and regular Venusaur stacks other weaknesses with Drought Torterra and Volcarona, can boost its offenses to +2 and starts to sweep the opponent's team; a fast Sleep Powder support is still valuable. This seems a solid B rank on my eyes, one sub-rank lower than Kingdra (the best Swift Swimmer) which doesn't stack the same weaknesses in the respective weather, for sun offense.
 
Zoroark B+
In my opinion it should start from B+ because it has a good speed tier (105), mixed cabilities alongside STAB Dark Pulse (which hit all Psychic super-effectively) plus STAB fighting moves which provide useful coverage alongside Flamethrower. Last, but not least, there is the ability Illusion which can provide some useful mind games even with the team preview if your last member of the team has opposite weaknesses i.e. Gengar which is immune to Normal, Fightning and Earth while being weak to Psychic, Ghost and Dark. The "core" Zoroark/Gengar is only an example on how it can be used because
Zoroark is not going to work well with gengar for one simple reason, Hazards, gengar is immune to spikes, and hit neutraly by stealth rocks, well zoroark resists rocks and is hit by spikes, an observant player will notice the difference, toxic spikes is also worth note for giving away zoroark
 
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Just going to weigh in on Jolteon here, but this thing needs to be higher than Raikou at the very least. Both of them get walled and checked by a lot of things in this meta that don't exist in standard OU (camerupt, empoleon, steelix, gastrodon, kyurem, goodra) which means that as far as offensive mons go they aren't able to perform in a lot of games. However, while Raikou's main purpose is as an attacker, Jolteon has more of a support role with Spikes, which isn't hindered as much by these Pokemon since they can't actually stop it from getting the Spikes up. This means that Jolteon isn't as much dead weight as Raikou is in these matchups. Additionally, Jolteon checks Talonflame (who's super good in this meta) much better than Raikou does, since it can actually outrun Talon and thus doesn't need to take a Flare Blitz first in order to get off an attack.

also Raikou is in no way A- rank, don't take post like I'm suggesting Jolteon to go to A lmao
 
Just going to weigh in on Jolteon here, but this thing needs to be higher than Raikou at the very least. Both of them get walled and checked by a lot of things in this meta that don't exist in standard OU (camerupt, empoleon, steelix, gastrodon, kyurem, goodra) which means that as far as offensive mons go they aren't able to perform in a lot of games. However, while Raikou's main purpose is as an attacker, Jolteon has more of a support role with Spikes, which isn't hindered as much by these Pokemon since they can't actually stop it from getting the Spikes up. This means that Jolteon isn't as much dead weight as Raikou is in these matchups. Additionally, Jolteon checks Talonflame (who's super good in this meta) much better than Raikou does, since it can actually outrun Talon and thus doesn't need to take a Flare Blitz first in order to get off an attack.

also Raikou is in no way A- rank, don't take post like I'm suggesting Jolteon to go to A lmao
Jolteon doesn't really check Talonflame.

252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jolteon: 129-153 (47.6 - 56.4%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO

Unless you invest in bulk...

252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 80 Def Jolteon: 114-135 (42 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Jolteon: 129-153 (42 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Honestly, Jolteon doesn't have the EVs to spare. I'd sooner run Scarf Raikou or Mega Manectric if I wanted a fast Electric-type Talonflame check.

Jolteon also faces serious competition from Froslass as a spiker, which boasts Prankster Spikes/Taunt/Destiny Bond and spinblocking. It's very much a niche choice for a spiker.

I feel like B- and C+ would be most appropriate for Jolteon and Raikou, respectively. Both fall to a lot of common threats and/or face serious competition as you described, but Jolteon can at least do something against its stops.
 
Finding zoroark's place in the viability rankings is tricky because it has possibly the most unique niche of any pokemon due to its ability. While under illusion, Zoroark can force switches that it has no business forcing, and with the right play can actually cause favorable switches. In these cases, a zoroark that gets to +2 for free can actually threaten a sweep due to its combination of speed and priority. When played incorrectly, which is easy to do, zoroark basically has no ability, and thus is just an incredibly frail, not too fast cleaner, that is also set up material for fairies. Thankfully, zoroark does get u-turn, which can ease the challenge of predicting switches. Its new typing does allow it to come in a lot more than its mono-dark form, and only helps to better bluff other types and increase zoro's coverage. Being a pretty hard check to dark types is very nice, as it can now switch in on a bisharp knock off, and KO with vacuum wave before sucker punch.

Zoroark thrives when switched in safely, and as such loves volt-turn support, however, with this requirement, I think we can rule out A ranks. With a very nice movepool, it can be catered to beat any of the main team archetypes depending on team need, though it still struggles against strong faster priority users, especially gale wingers. In my experience, successful use of zoroark is HUGELY dependent on team building, it's not like mega meta or char X, where you can stick it on a team and it will succeed no matter what. Constructing a team that provides several, relatively safe bluffing opportunities is what allows zoroark to shine.

Here's a replay against Pato, where I built a team that tried to make determining whether zoro was in or not difficult for the opponent. i.e. u-turn on both zoro and torn, knock-off coming from banette, messing with expected speeds.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/outheorymon-283850326

Overall I think zoroark is a very versatile tool, BUT it can be equally difficult to use effectively. My favorite part is that despite the team preview, the presence of zoroark in a match turns the whole battle into a mind game. I think if played correctly, it has the potential to be B+ or even A-, but because it is basically dead if you play incorrectly even once, I think it should start at B.

Zoroark for B

Edits for mobile typing
 
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G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One For All
is a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Cobalion should get B- rank for a few reasons.

Magnet Pullers aren't that needed: This meta is way past DragMag cores due to the fact that the Drag part of the core isn't needed. The 3 best Dragons in the tier are 1. Garchomp, 2. Kyurem and 3. Kyurem-B. None of these Dragons have problems with steel types due to STABs and super stronk or unwallable coverage handling them, respectively. Most other Dragons aren't that viable anymore. So Magnet Pullers aren't really needed.

2. Steels aren't that easy to trap anymore: OK. This might sound strange, but its true. While Steel trappers sound neat in practice, one must realise that a lot of steels can easily hit back hard. Mega Steelix tanks the CC and OHKO's with its Earthquake. Mega Aggron filters the damage and can also hit hard with Earthquake (not to mention the def drops). Weezing is neutral and can hit it hard with Fire Blast or burn with wisp. Bronzong can stall out CC with Recover and force it out. Megagross is Megagross, Exca under sand kils. The only steels it beats 100% of the time a4 Rotom-F and Heatran.

3. Most importantly, it's checked by super viable and splashable Vizirion: Traces MagPull. STAB CC. GG

I aggree that Jolt should get C+, as while its the fastest unboosted spike staker, its outclassed by others. (Priority, good ability, great defensive typing, spinblocking) and its already outclassed as an offensive electric.

Zoroak should start at B+ or A-, but its coolness should get it up higher.
 

Patolegend!

Fan of 1000 Arrow 'Slash
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Cobalion should get B- rank for a few reasons.

Magnet Pullers aren't that needed: This meta is way past DragMag cores due to the fact that the Drag part of the core isn't needed. The 3 best Dragons in the tier are 1. Garchomp, 2. Kyurem and 3. Kyurem-B. None of these Dragons have problems with steel types due to STABs and super stronk or unwallable coverage handling them, respectively. Most other Dragons aren't that viable anymore. So Magnet Pullers aren't really needed.

2. Steels aren't that easy to trap anymore: OK. This might sound strange, but its true. While Steel trappers sound neat in practice, one must realise that a lot of steels can easily hit back hard. Mega Steelix tanks the CC and OHKO's with its Earthquake. Mega Aggron filters the damage and can also hit hard with Earthquake (not to mention the def drops). Weezing is neutral and can hit it hard with Fire Blast or burn with wisp. Bronzong can stall out CC with Recover and force it out. Megagross is Megagross, Exca under sand kils. The only steels it beats 100% of the time a4 Rotom-F and Heatran.

3. Most importantly, it's checked by super viable and splashable Vizirion: Traces MagPull. STAB CC. GG

I aggree that Jolt should get C+, as while its the fastest unboosted spike staker, its outclassed by others. (Priority, good ability, great defensive typing, spinblocking) and its already outclassed as an offensive electric.

Zoroak should start at B+ or A-, but its coolness should get it up higher.
I actually think Jolteon could do pretty well - one of the new defoggers in the meta is Moltres, and Jolt can take a Hurricane and send it's arse back to hell, while Frosslass is scared of Fire Blast and can only Taunt/destiny bond it. It can take one hit from Talon, and I think the difference in bulk between it and raikou is not so much of a problem cos you'll just be volting out most of the time, you don't want to take a hit from anything, kinda like Mega Manectric.

I think you're right about Cobalion though - first of all, there are less steels in this meta (and not much Ferrothorn), and second it's lacking power. Where it'll come in useful is against sand teams - with a balloon you can either make a ballsy prediction or a sack, and you get a guaranteed kill on Excadrill, while still matching up well against other sand mons like Cradily, TTar, and Cacturne. It'll probably be more helpful in picking off slightly weakened Steels rather than being an all-encompassing Steel destroyer.

I reckon Zoroark is gonna be A-, B+ - that priority is gonna make it so annoying.

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As for the current slate, I reckon Sceptile would be REALLY useful. A grass type is kinda needed if only to take out Toxic Super Slug of Doom, and with Spikes support and the switches it forces, Seed Flare is gonna be causing a lot of grief.

Azelf is gonna introduce one thing - variety. I'm not sure if i'd prefer to run it as a Special hole puncher or a perfect lead; the previous tactic of ScarfTar crunching and the sand taking the sash is now not gonna work, thats for sure, something's getting exploded on! One thing to note is that the steel/poison types in this meta just get blown back by Fire Blast/Psychic. Gonna be interesting, that's for sure!

Seismitoad + Drizzle: Bring back the rain, baby! Offensive is the way to go, as it bodies Mega Cam:
252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Earth Power vs. 168 HP / 0 SpD Mega Camerupt: 304-359 (94.1 - 111.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

This really would give all three weathers a real chance to shine, although would bring back the Gen 5 weather wars to a certain extent. One thing that would keep it in check is that it's virtually a free switch in for a bulky torterra:

252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Torterra: 121-143 (30.7 - 36.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

It would also be interesting! Pair it up with Kingdra and Tornadus-T and watch things die.
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One For All
is a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
It learns Both Ice Beam AND Punch I believe, and no one needs calcs for that.

Mega Scep will be a force to be reckoned with, as of now, spike stacking is an actual thing. With those forcing out it will produce, it will seriously weak down foes.

Azelf looks a bit TOO powerful if you ask me. Sure, we need non mega offensive fairies, but Mold Breaker might push it over the top.

Let's not even talk about Sunrock.
 
It learns Both Ice Beam AND Punch I believe, and no one needs calcs for that.

Mega Scep will be a force to be reckoned with, as of now, spike stacking is an actual thing. With those forcing out it will produce, it will seriously weak down foes.

Azelf looks a bit TOO powerful if you ask me. Sure, we need non mega offensive fairies, but Mold Breaker might push it over the top.

Let's not even talk about Sunrock.
It does learn Ice Punch, but not Ice Beam.

252+ Atk Life Orb Seismitoad Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Torterra: 265-312 (67.4 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Torterra Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 480-568 (115.9 - 137.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I really doubt using a positive nature with LO would be beneficial for Seismitoad. The calcs are just here to show that no matter what's Seismitoad's spread, Torterra can always survive an Ice Punch before OHKOing back with Wood Hammer.
 
Azelf looks a bit TOO powerful if you ask me. Sure, we need non mega offensive fairies, but Mold Breaker might push it over the top.
I doubt Azelf would be broken. All Mold Breaker really does is let it set up rocks against Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie and Heatran can't freely switch into its Fire Blasts. It is still pretty weak to most forms of priority and scarfers, and there are plenty of mons in the meta that can take it on, like MegaRupt, MegaLix can live one F-Blast and trap it, Entei can tank its hits granted AV, and Muk is a nice special sponge to take it on. And the suicide lead set is actually pretty meh, as it faces some competition from Froslass and Klefki, which Froslass provides Prankster Taunt and D-Bond, while Klefki provides great defensive typing and Prankster T-Wave and Magnet Rise. Plus when are suicide leads broken?
Yeah it'll be a nice buff, but I don't see it being too bad, solid A-/A rank imo.
 
I doubt Azelf would be broken. All Mold Breaker really does is let it set up rocks against Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie and Heatran can't freely switch into its Fire Blasts. It is still pretty weak to most forms of priority and scarfers, and there are plenty of mons in the meta that can take it on, like MegaRupt, MegaLix can live one F-Blast and trap it, Entei can tank its hits granted AV, and Muk is a nice special sponge to take it on. And the suicide lead set is actually pretty meh, as it faces some competition from Froslass and Klefki, which Froslass provides Prankster Taunt and D-Bond, while Klefki provides great defensive typing and Prankster T-Wave and Magnet Rise. Plus when are suicide leads broken?
Yeah it'll be a nice buff, but I don't see it being too bad, solid A-/A rank imo.
Hell, Specially Defensive Heatran can still switch in on Fire Blasts (if not for free). Offensive Heatrans can switch into one and, from full health, probably not get 2HKOed.

252 SpA Life Orb Mold Breaker Azelf Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Heatran: 110-131 (28.5 - 34%) -- 97.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Mold Breaker Azelf Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 146-172 (45.2 - 53.2%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO

Meanwhile,

0 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Azelf: 145-172 (49.8 - 59.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Heatran Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Azelf: 241-285 (82.8 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Azelf: 290-344 (99.6 - 118.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

In any case, Azelf is gonna have trouble setting up Nasty Plots in this meta with those defenses, and it has plenty of switch-ins without a boost, so I wouldn't worry about it.
 
I doubt Azelf would be broken. All Mold Breaker really does is let it set up rocks against Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie and Heatran can't freely switch into its Fire Blasts.
...and bypass sturdy (Skarm, Donphan), thick fat (M-venu, hopefully Gogoat soon?!), unaware (Clef, Quag), oblivious (Mamo), filter (M-Aggron), multiscale (Dragonite, Milotic)... Still don't think it's broken but it's better than you're making out.

Also checking heatran is p huge as it makes it a fairy that can check all steel types + M-Venu in one slot.
 
a fairy that can check all steel types + M-Venu in one slot.
Let's check the OU Steel-types, plus those added / made viable by Theorymon, plus Mega Venusaur.

252 SpA Life Orb Azelf Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 408-481 (150.5 - 177.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 110-131 (37.8 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 134-159 (46 - 54.6%) -- 55.5% chance to 2HKO

Azelf can switch in on a Swords Dance or a Sucker Punch, living +2 Sucker Punch (narrowly). Knock Off + Sucker Punch comes very close to KOing.

252 SpA Life Orb Azelf Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 432-510 (119.6 - 141.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 321-380 (110.3 - 130.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 161-190 (55.3 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Azelf comes in on Rock Slide or Rapid Spin, KOes back. Activated Sand Rush or a Choice Scarf negate this.

Not gonna bother with calcs. Azelf gets a lot of opportunities to come in on utility moves, but Gyro Ball OHKOes and Power Whip does a number too. Doesn't like coming in on Leech Seed if it carries a Life Orb.

252 SpA Life Orb Mold Breaker Azelf Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Heatran: 110-131 (28.5 - 34%) -- 97.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Azelf: 144-171 (49.4 - 58.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

The Specially Defensive set give Azelf trouble, easily 2HKOing with Lava Plume while avoiding the 2HKO itself.

252 SpA Life Orb Mold Breaker Azelf Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 144-170 (44.5 - 52.6%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Azelf: 131-155 (45 - 53.2%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Azelf: 219-258 (75.2 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Azelf: 350-414 (120.2 - 142.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Azelf can 2HKO offensive Heatran with some prior damage or some luck, but it does not take any of the offensive set's attacks well at all.

252 SpA Life Orb Mold Breaker Azelf Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Jirachi: 234-276 (57.9 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

SpD / pivot Jirachi is 2HKOed by Fire Blast, but Azelf is OHKOed by Iron Head or risks a crippling Paralysis from Body Slam. It has to come in on a status move not named Thunder Wave. It can take a Body Slam from a Scarf set and possibly OHKO back, but that's obviously situational.

252 SpA Life Orb Mold Breaker Azelf Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 239-283 (75.1 - 88.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Azelf deals serious damage to Klefki, unless it's running Light Screen, in which case it gets a turn or two to set up on you or toss out a Thunder Wave. Klefki doesn't typically run a Steel-type move and Play Rough doesn't 2HKO so I didn't count it.

252 SpA Life Orb Mold Breaker Azelf Fire Blast vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 333-393 (102.7 - 121.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Azelf: 144-170 (49.4 - 58.4%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Azelf: 252-297 (86.5 - 102%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Azelf can switch into HP Fire on the Specs set, but that's it.

252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Azelf: 196-232 (67.3 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Azelf: 88-104 (30.2 - 35.7%) -- 32.6% chance to 3HKO

Azelf can come in on a Scarf set's HP Fire, but every other move either switches Magnezone out or 2HKOes.

252 SpA Life Orb Azelf Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Metagross: 278-330 (92.3 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 252-297 (86.5 - 102%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 254-300 (87.2 - 103%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Azelf usually KOs Megagross, but it can't switch in on a STAB. It falls to sets that carry Bullet Punch.

252 SpA Life Orb Azelf Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Mega Scizor: 499-593 (145.4 - 172.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 248-294 (85.2 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

No.

252 SpA Life Orb Mold Breaker Azelf Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 406-478 (121.5 - 143.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 144-171 (49.4 - 58.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

Azelf gets plenty of Switch-in opportunities and OHKOes.

252 SpA Life Orb Mold Breaker Azelf Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Weezing: 408-481 (122.1 - 144%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Weezing Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Azelf: 228-270 (78.3 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Azelf can switch in on many utility moves, but it hates taking a Sludge Bomb to the face.

252 SpA Life Orb Mold Breaker Azelf Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 109-129 (29.3 - 34.7%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Empoleon Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Azelf: 126-148 (43.2 - 50.8%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Empoleon Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Azelf: 252-296 (86.5 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Empoleon can do what it needs to against Azelf and either dispose of it or hit the switch-in.

Arena Trap makes the matter of "checking" Mega Steelix somewhat questionable, so let's assume that Mega Steelix is just mega-evolving this turn or had come in on a Flying- or Ghost-type.

252 SpA Life Orb Mold Breaker Azelf Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Steelix: 317-374 (89.5 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Mold Breaker Azelf Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Steelix: 226-268 (63.8 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Mega Steelix Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 420-494 (144.3 - 169.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Mega Steelix Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 175-207 (60.1 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Steelix Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 234-276 (80.4 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Azelf hates to switch in on anything but a Specially Defensive set's Earthquake, but it can't OHKO the Specially Defensive set and thus dies.

252 SpA Life Orb Mold Breaker Azelf Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-S: 286-338 (94 - 111.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Mold Breaker Azelf Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-S: 208-247 (68.4 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Rotom-S Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Azelf: 240-284 (82.4 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Rotom-S Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Azelf: 135-160 (46.3 - 54.9%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO

Azelf can come in fairly comfortably on any move but Flash Cannon (it doesn't like Volt Switch chip damage, though) and, if it's not running a specially defensive set (I have no idea what it runs), KOs.

252 SpA Life Orb Mold Breaker Azelf Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Mega Aggron: 153-181 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- 21.9% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Mega Aggron Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 129-152 (44.3 - 52.2%) -- 16.4% chance to 2HKO
Azelf actually does a little more damage with Dazzling Gleam than Fire Blast -- enough to sometimes 2HKO. Any Steel-type move from Mega Aggron murders Azelf, while an Earthquake easily KOs with Life Orb recoil.

Azelf comes in on anything except Gyro Ball, OHKOes through Sturdy.

252 SpA Life Orb Mold Breaker Azelf Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 198-234 (58.5 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (143 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 374-444 (128.5 - 152.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Azelf loses, and Bronzong can now potentially heal off the damage.

252 SpA Life Orb Mold Breaker Azelf Fire Blast vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Cobalion: 398-471 (109.6 - 129.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
112 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 89-105 (30.5 - 36%) -- 53.3% chance to 3HKO
112 Atk Cobalion Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 240-284 (82.4 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If you're smart enough not to come in on a predicted Iron Head, Azelf should be able to force Cobalion out.

252 SpA Life Orb Mold Breaker Azelf Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 260-307 (71.4 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Azelf: 127-151 (43.6 - 51.8%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Azelf: 306-362 (105.1 - 124.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Azelf: 172-204 (59.1 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Azelf deals heavy damage, but it hates switching in on pretty much every move Megasaur can throw at it, save Leech Seed.


As you can see, Azelf has to be played properly to check Steel-types, often taking a big chunk of damage when it tries to do so. For some, it has no business switching in on them anyways.

Azelf's niche is not in checking Steels, but in not being checked by (some) Steels. None of the things I mentioned above really like switching into Azelf, save Heatran or Empoleon. Azelf is a sweeper or a suicide lead, not a switch-in to Pokemon with offensive presence.
 
I said check, not counter (as in, beats one-on-one). Obviously Azelf won't be switching in to steels, but most steels don't want to switch in either, which is a problem if your fairy checks are steel types and/or Venu as it means Azelf can pretty much get a kill every time it come in if played right. Heatran and Empoleon have no recovery so can't switch in multiple times.

But ok, point taken, I hadn't gone through every calc and it doesn't fare as well against some steels as I thought :]
 
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