Project OU Underdog

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Ktütverde

of course
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Former Smogon Metagame Tournament Circuit Champion
I thought you were joking at first with the gxe thing lol, gxe has nothing to do with your team or how many unranked mons youre using so you can basically get 90 92 gxe with literally anything as long as you win (tho obviously it's harder to win with UR mons). If you want a more in depth explanation on gxe check this out http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...layers-overall-rating-than-shoddys-cre.51169/
Idk if you even read my posts, ofc gxe has nothing to do with your team (it doesn't use data from teambuilder or usage stats) but you cannot go higher than a certain gxe if you decide to use poor stuff because if it was possible viablity would mean nothing at all: good teams have good mons, and even though they are not all S rank, they are almost never lower than B rank... If you can I would be pleased you show me.
I feel this is going too far with gxes etc, I originally wanted to say that showing a team around underdogs would be the most interesting part for readers so they see if your idea can actually work, what partners work well, which playstyles etc: the more information the better!
 
Idk if you even read my posts, ofc gxe has nothing to do with your team (it doesn't use data from teambuilder or usage stats) but you cannot go higher than a certain gxe if you decide to use poor stuff because if it was possible viablity would mean nothing at all: good teams have good mons, and even though they are not all S rank, they are almost never lower than B rank... If you can I would be pleased you show me.
I feel this is going too far with gxes etc, I originally wanted to say that showing a team around underdogs would be the most interesting part for readers so they see if your idea can actually work, what partners work well, which playstyles etc: the more information the better!
I read the thread silver lucario linked above. This is basically un-quantifiable, because success in mons ins't just a function of pokemon or team viability, it's a function of those things AND player skill (arguably weighted more towards player skill). My takeaway from Antar's analysis was this:

The 'viability ceiling' and a mons actual viability (as ranked by smogon users) are quite different in practice, and the point of this analysis was actually to prove that certain 'poor mons' are actually more viable than the rankings make it out to be, because there is now statistical proof of high ladder players using these mons to success.


To use some examples from his post:
- Malamar, a B-ranked mon, has an 85 VC
- Glalie, an S-ranked mon, has an 87 VC
- Emboar, an A-ranked mon, has a 90 VC

So it seems that really the idea behind this is that viability rankings tend to be biased or not actually true to viability in practice as observed on the ladder. (Why does an S-rank mon have a lower viability ceiling than an A-rank mon?) Which would support the idea that the viability ceiling is a fairly useless concept, because all it means is that no top player has yet gone and used this lesser mon to success. BUT it could happen at any time in the future, and this mons viability ceiling will increase. Well that just means that we're trying to use after-the-fact data to try to analyze real-time ('during the fact') viability, when we don't have that after-the-fact data yet. Hope this makes sense.

But back to your original point; yes I agree a team example would be good, especially considering the fact that many underdogs require specific support.
 

Salazzle (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Toxic
- Fire Blast
- Knock Off
- Taunt

When Duggy was in the tier, I was scared of using this thing. But now that Arena Trap is out of the way, I feel safe to experiment with this thing at last.

With Arena Trap gone, Heatran is getting insanely common and is punishing all passivity. Toxapex has become even more cancerous than it was before, and Chansey is being slapped on all sorts of teams. So here's something that can heavily annoy these three, and a bunch of other defensive Pokémon.

Salazzle has the unique ability to put Poison and Steel types on a timer, and it's really useful today as it can lure many of these Pokémon and can't be poisoned itself. When it's poisoned, Toxapex can no longer get away with reckless moves and healing it all off with Regenerator. It also has a really useful movepool for its role too. Knock Off lures Chansey and removes its Eviolite, making it easier for a teammate to kill it. Taunt allows it to shut down defensive Pokémon. The moves listed are not its only options, either. It has Will-O-Wisp so it can do something vs. offense, Substitute to force 50-50s, and Sludge Wave if you want to beat Clefable I guess.

Of course, this Pokémon has notable flaws that can hold it back. It has extremely poor bulk, and the Stealth Rock weakness doesn't help it (though removing Toxic Spikes is nice). It can't really do too much against offense, and its 4x Ground weakness doesn't help matters. Still, doesn't change the fact that it is fun as hell to use.
 

Albacore

sludge bomb is better than sludge wave
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Archeops @ Rockium Z
Ability: Defeatist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Heat Wave

So I was initially using this thing as a joke, but it actually ended up being way better than I expected?

Obviously the main draw of this set is Z Head Smash, which hits incredibly hard off a base 140 Attack without any downsides. EQ is there to hit grounded Steels (particularly Magearna), HP Ice is for Landorus-T, Garchomp and Zygarde, and Heat Wave hits Ferrothorn and Kartana. I suppose you could run Roost over one of its special moves, but in OU, there's barely anything Archeops can afford to Roost on given how frail it is, and the coverage is pretty important, I've never wished I had recovery but there were plenty of times I was grateful I had Heat Wave/HP Ice (especially the latter, which is so good at catching Lando-T by surprise that I use it just as much as Head Smash). SR can probably work pretty well if you need a setter though.

Now, the real problem with this set is that it's very much a one-time nuke: once you use up your Z Crystal, the only move you have that really does much damage will almost certainly bring Archeops down to Defeatist range, at which point it's completely useless. And there's also the pretty big issue of being SR-weak. I would really only recommend this on HO since it's not at all suited for any other playstyle. Nevertheless, it's been a lot more effective than I thought it would be, it can really open up big holes in the opposing team, and the pretty high speed and Ground immunity really helps, especially for something with a powerful Rock STAB.

I don't think there's much else you could justify running on Archeops in OU. Outside of Head Smash and the ability to run special moves semi-effectively you're probably better off with something like Aerodactyl, and Head Smash's horrible recoil makes Band out of the question. But this set really capitalizes on Archeops's qualities that set it apart from similar Pokemon and suits the OU metagame pretty well.
 
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Idk if you even read my posts, ofc gxe has nothing to do with your team (it doesn't use data from teambuilder or usage stats) but you cannot go higher than a certain gxe if you decide to use poor stuff because if it was possible viablity would mean nothing at all: good teams have good mons, and even though they are not all S rank, they are almost never lower than B rank... If you can I would be pleased you show me.
I feel this is going too far with gxes etc, I originally wanted to say that showing a team around underdogs would be the most interesting part for readers so they see if your idea can actually work, what partners work well, which playstyles etc: the more information the better!
I guess it depends how high you're talking here. You can get around 85ish gxe with a team of multiple unranked mons. There's no doubt in my mind that a better player than me could go even higher. A good team doesn't need "good" pokemon.

I do agree that team discussion should be emphasised, because many of the best underdogs are good because they provide advantages over certain more common pokemon in each certain team-building situations. Talking about underdogs in isolation makes them often seem more gimmicky than they really are in practice.
 

Ktütverde

of course
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Former Smogon Metagame Tournament Circuit Champion
I guess it depends how high you're talking here. You can get around 85ish gxe with a team of multiple unranked mons. There's no doubt in my mind that a better player than me could go even higher. A good team doesn't need "good" pokemon.

I do agree that team discussion should be emphasised, because many of the best underdogs are good because they provide advantages over certain more common pokemon in each certain team-building situations. Talking about underdogs in isolation makes them often seem more gimmicky than they really are in practice.
Really appreciate that man! Your last sentence literally reflects my thought:)
The thread is quite inactive but we could try posting teams made around pokemons previously posted as a sort of TeambuildingResearch to promote Underdogs in OU !
 

Ktütverde

of course
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Former Smogon Metagame Tournament Circuit Champion
QUOTE: "You can talk about cool sets, cores, strategies, and much more about any pokemon, as long as they are not listed on the viability rankings. You can consider this as the Metagame Discussion for unranked pokemon, but do not forget to stick to the rules:" (thread rules)

This is not only a "post a set and explain thread", I guess it's not going to harm anyone to add teams with realistic explanation (we prefer not seeing teams with landorus magearna zygarde koko and empoleon because "it is cooler than greninja", don't we?)
 


I present normalium z silvally!

Silvally @ Normalium Z
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Explosion
- Flame Charge/Fire fang/thunder Fang
- Iron Head/crunch
- Swords Dance/uturn/Parting Shot

Due to receiving stab to it Silvally has access to the strongest explosion, outdamaging landorus explosion by about 12%, as you can see in the calcs below comparing its damage to other wallbreakers.
With normalium z it can now nuke smth. twice, making it a fearsome wallbreaker!

252+ Atk Silvally Breakneck Blitz (200bp) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 288-340 (84.4 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Silvally Explosion vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 361-426 (105.8 - 124.9%)
252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 388-457 (113.7 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 bp) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 399-471 (117 - 138.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Fly (170 bp) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 331-390 (97 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Explosion vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 323-381 (94.7 - 111.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 279-328 (81.8 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Silvally has quite good defenseive stats 95/95/95 and also a good speed tier 95, which makes it not difficult to fire off atleast one explosion per game.
In addition to explosion you can use flame charge to get an init boost agaisnt weak pokemon and also use it agaisnt steel types. Iron head helps agaisnt rock types, crunch agaisnt ghost types, though i teamed up with pursuit tyranitar.
It also learns Sd for extra power and parting shot for utility. It highly appreciates Voltturn support.
Here a bunch of replays from the lower ladder, i build a team for it but i suck hard this gen. I got to 1500 elo, i think better players could get higher.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-643547308 here i finish a magearna with flame charge, outspeed and kill a mega beedril, sd against lando and survive his crit eq, then kill the lando and the koko
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-643552924 here i finish a tangrowth and then kill a latios and volcarano
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-643569340 here i finish off a Celesteela with flame charge and the kill 3 more mons
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-643789326 here i finish off a Celesteela with flame charge, survive scarf kartanas sacred sword and kill it and heavily damage defensive lando
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-643910933 here i kill a heatran at +2 and late heavily dent a tangroth
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-644927655 here my opponent is so shocked form seeign silvally on the team preview that he fall from his chair and timed out
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-644955812 here i surprise a ferrothorn with flame charge and kill 2 mons in advance
 
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Ktütverde

of course
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Former Smogon Metagame Tournament Circuit Champion


I present normalium z silvally!

Silvally @ Normalium Z
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Explosion
- Flame Charge/Fire fang/thunder Fang
- Iron Head/crunch
- Swords Dance/uturn/Parting Shot

Due to receiving stab to it Silvally has access to the strongest explosion, outdamaging landorus explosion by about 12%, as you can see in the calcs below comparing its damage to other wallbreakers.
With normalium z it can now nuke smth. twice, making it a fearsome wallbreaker!

252+ Atk Silvally Breakneck Blitz (200bp) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 288-340 (84.4 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Silvally Explosion vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 361-426 (105.8 - 124.9%)
252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 388-457 (113.7 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 bp) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 399-471 (117 - 138.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Fly (170 bp) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 331-390 (97 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Explosion vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 323-381 (94.7 - 111.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 279-328 (81.8 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Silvally has quite good defenseive stats 95/95/95 and also a good speed tier 95, which makes it not difficult to fire off atleast one explosion per game.
In addition to explosion you can use flame charge to get an init boost agaisnt weak pokemon and also use it agaisnt steel types. Iron head helps agaisnt rock types, crunch agaisnt ghost types, though i teamed up with pursuit tyranitar.
It also learns Sd for extra power and parting shot for utility. It highly appreciates Voltturn support.
Here a bunch of replays from the lower ladder, i build a team for it but i suck hard this gen. I got to 1500 elo, i think better players could get higher.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-643547308 here i finish a magearna with flame charge, outspeed and kill a mega beedril, sd against lando and survive his crit eq, then kill the lando and the koko
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-643569340 here i finish a tangrowth and then kill a latios and volcarano
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-643569340 here i finish off a Celesteela with flame charge and the kill 3 more mons
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-643789326 here i finish off a Celesteela with flame charge, survive scarf kartanas sacred sword and kill it and heavily damage defensive lando
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-643910933 here i kill a heatran at +2 and late heavily dent a tangroth
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-644927655 here my opponent is so shocked form seeign silvally on the team preview that he fall from his chair and timed out
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-644955812 here i surprise a ferrothorn with flame charge and kill 2 mons in advance
Wow man thank you so much I've never watched so hilarious replays in my life :')
 
If we're gonna talk about Arcanine, I remember one of the big things that it had going for it last gen came from its ability to function as one of the more consistent defensive stops to Mega Mawile in the game with a physically defensive set. Between Intimidate, decent all-around bulk, and its pure Fire typing, it can very consistently switch in on anything that Mega Mawile can carry, unlike Heatran it doesn't just die when switching in on variants which run Focus Punch, and unlike both Tran and Lando-T, access to reliable recovery does wonders for not being worn down by this thing; it can punish people who try to hinder its healing with Tyranitar by crippling them with Close Combat, and even if it lacks CC (which IDT it should in the current metagame) it pairs very well with Dugtrio due to the more balanced nature of the types of teams it fits on, with Duggy being able to trap and remove it so that Arcanaine can regain its easy healing later on to continue defensively checking Mawile for as long as it is impractical to go for a Duggy trap on it.


Arcanine @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 148 Def / 112 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun

The listed EV spread allows Arcanine to outrun timid Heatran and KO it with Close Combat, which also serves a variety of other purposes including outrunning jolly Tapu Bulu and KOing it with Flare Blitz, forcing jolly Bisharp to use Sucker Punch if it wants to stay in on Arcanine, and outrunning jolly Tyranitar that switch in on its Blitz, Wisp, or Morning Sun, allowing Arcanine to KO them with Close Combat. Beyond just defensively countering all Mawile variants, Arcanine has a lot of generally really useful traits defensively, including its ability to take on any Bulu lacking jolly Continental Crush (which needs to be at +2 to OHKO and can be scouted by partnered Rock-type reisists like Ferrothorn, Magearna etc.), taking on non-Electrium CM+SG Magearna if it isn't weakened too much, it can take on non-HP Ground Volca nicely as long as it is healthy. More specially defensive variants are also an option if you don't mind being 1-shotted by jolly Continental Crush after Stealth Rock damage, although I'm sure that there is a middle-ground variant which aims to balance its ability to check stuff at the cost of guaranteed consistency on both sides.

The big thing about Arcanine is that, a lot of the time, a big part of its niche comes from compressing roles that practically be distributed across multiple team slots. While counters to Mega Mawile are certainly few and far between, you can generally get away with two or three checks to it on bulkier teams or even by running something like Eject Button Pex/Mola+Sub Groundium Dugtrio to remove it Bulu can be covered or pressured by running things like TSpikes/multiple Toxic users/Toxic Duggy etc. In fact, a lot of ___+Duggy cores are able to keep a lot of the things that it aims to check in a bit of a bind in general, with the key opportunity cost to using Arcanine coming from the fact that you are giving up a team slot to run a defensive SR-weak Pokemon which is trapped by Dugtrio and has 8 PP+weather dependence on its only form of recovery outside of Leftovers. You need a very good reason to use this Pokemon on any serious team, and it needs a lot of support to function consistently throughout the match to the point that it usually isn't worth running.

When it comes to Arcanine, I've had some good success using an Arcanine in an entry hazard team. Intimidate and flash fire force switches very easily, and here comes the good part: Heatran is an EXTREMELY predictable switch in so you know what to use to make them pay for that? Bulldoze! They pretty much never see that coming and you don't have to worry about being revenge killed due to CC's stat drops. For any other switch ins such as rapidspinners/defoggers, roar them away!
 
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When it comes to Arcanine, I've had some good success using an Arcanine in an entry hazard team. Intimidate and flash fire force switches very easily, and here comes the good part: Heatran is an EXTREMELY predictable switch in so you know what to use to make them pay for that? Bulldoze! They pretty much never see that coming and you don't have to worry about being revenge killed due to CC's stat drops. For any other switch ins such as rapidspinners/defoggers, roar them away!
what'd u give up for roar? because u basically need wisp and morning sun i think.
 
what'd u give up for roar? because u basically need wisp and morning sun i think.
The set I tested on showdown was: Roar, Bulldoze, Extreme speed, and overheat. Evs were completely focused on bulk, but Overheat still netted some suprised KOs. Honestly I think the most swapable move for morning sun would be exstreemespeed.
 

Ktütverde

of course
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Former Smogon Metagame Tournament Circuit Champion
The set I tested on showdown was: Roar, Bulldoze, Extreme speed, and overheat. Evs were completely focused on bulk, but Overheat still netted some suprised KOs. Honestly I think the most swapable move for morning sun would be exstreemespeed.
Your idea of a tank set without morning sun is actually not stupid at all because it provides some offensive presence+defensive amazing utility. Did you consider running full speed arcanine with leftovers so as to act as a sponge, keep recovery but provide a lot of utility via offensive moves? I would suggest you using willowisp>roar because you will keep defogging to support arcanine, and roar is quite bad in SMOU to be honest, even skarmory doesn't run that anymore. Wow is a winwin bet, cuz even special attackers don't like being 100%burnt on the switch. Overheat is a really cool idea since u are not going to beat sableye, clefable chansey toxapex and frens with physical stab. Still flareblitz is an extremely reliable stab and sometimes you will need to hit twice in a row without drop, for exemple vs mimikyu who easily tanks weak overheats. There is absolutely no reason to give up flare blitz! I also would like to emphasize the utility that a jolly/252HP/252speed arcanine can provide to teams notably when it comes to outspeeding zygarde and burning it, hard check mimikyu (counter it?) and lead versus fast excadrills. Fullspeed scizor is a thing right now so I really believe Fast Tank Arcanine is the best to use. What is your opinion?


Arcanine @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Bulldoze
- Extreme Speed
- Flare Blitz

:)
 
Your idea of a tank set without morning sun is actually not stupid at all because it provides some offensive presence+defensive amazing utility. Did you consider running full speed arcanine with leftovers so as to act as a sponge, keep recovery but provide a lot of utility via offensive moves? I would suggest you using willowisp>roar because you will keep defogging to support arcanine, and roar is quite bad in SMOU to be honest, even skarmory doesn't run that anymore. Wow is a winwin bet, cuz even special attackers don't like being 100%burnt on the switch. Overheat is a really cool idea since u are not going to beat sableye, clefable chansey toxapex and frens with physical stab. Still flareblitz is an extremely reliable stab and sometimes you will need to hit twice in a row without drop, for exemple vs mimikyu who easily tanks weak overheats. There is absolutely no reason to give up flare blitz! I also would like to emphasize the utility that a jolly/252HP/252speed arcanine can provide to teams notably when it comes to outspeeding zygarde and burning it, hard check mimikyu (counter it?) and lead versus fast excadrills. Fullspeed scizor is a thing right now so I really believe Fast Tank Arcanine is the best to use. What is your opinion?


Arcanine @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Bulldoze
- Extreme Speed
- Flare Blitz

:)
252+ is a good idea, especially for arcanine's speed tier. With this spread though, morning sun is necessary to allow Arcanine to better take hits. You have to sacrifice being able to hit heatran, but I would run it over bulldoze. The utility you gain from recovery is greater than the opportunity cost of being walled by heatran
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
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Yeah, I really don’t like the idea of not running Morning Sun on Arcanine. It feels like you are taking Arcanine’s niche and invalidating it by running a move which barely helps Arcanine in any way (ESpeed) over its only means of checking things repeatedly. I also don‘t really understand the purpose of running Bulldoze on it when Close Combat hits Heatran equally hard while also meaning that Arcanine isn’t left helpless versus Tyranitar and Mega Tyranitar; sure you can burn them, but they then nail Arcanine with Stone Edge which chunks even after consideration of a burn. Thos is especially important given the weather-dependence of Morning Sun, which Tyranitar obviously causes issues with.

That said, I do think there is a place for max Speed Arcanine in this metagame if a team somehow ends up finding itself in need of Arcanine for whatever reason. Being able to outrun Jolly Lando-T and every noteworthy variant of Zygarde to burn them with Will-O-Wisp before they can use EQ/TArrows/Sub, combined with the ability to speed tie with naive KyuB (and, by extension, outrun Rash/Lonely) and Timid Tapu Lele to nail them with Close Combat or Flare Blitz, respectively, allows Arcanine to take advantage of its ability to soft check KyuB (and the fact that the other three are capable of taking advantage of Arcanine otherwise) to create more exploitable opportunities for the Arcanine user. It doesn’t impact on its ability to soft check Volcarona at all and Arcanine also still counters Mawile (granted it is pressured a little more by it, with the first KOff dealing just under 50%), but it does mean that Arcanine can no lo ger switch in on an unboosted Continental Crush from Tapu Bulu. I do think that the speed investment is probably more valuable at this point in time even with more Lando going defensive, but if usage of stuff like KyuB declines at any point in the future the spread which creeps timid Tran could very easily shift back i to favor (well... as “in favor” as an E rank Pokemon can get anyway lol).

As an aside, the loss of Dugtrio is definitely one good thing which has happened for Arcanine. I wouldn’t say that metagame shifts have necessarily been that in its favor outside of that beyond Kartana being better than ever, but yeah at least Duggy being gone is a turn up for the books.
 

Snorlax @ Figy Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 188 HP / 176 Def / 144 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Recycle
- Body Slam
- Fire Punch / Earthquake

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-648005548
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-648092900
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-648227383

Gonna put a plug for one of my favorite tanks to use in Gen 4 OU: CurseLax. The comeback kid has the Gluttony + Recycle + Figy combo to thank, as it finally gives him a means of instant recovery and bolsters its menacing longevity. It gets plenty of chances to set up on OU's finest, including SG Magearna, defensive Lando, Celesteela, all forms of Gren (- Low Kick variants), Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, Zapdos, Venusaur, Volcarona, etc. If played correctly around Tapu's, you can stall out Terrain and even the playing field. The great thing about pairing this with a cleric like Clefable or Togekiss means that if you get burnt or poisoned, you can switch out for a quick heal and then repeat the whole process. Because it covers Fire types pretty easily, it goes well with Kartana and Scizor, two Pokemon that threaten most offensive arch types but can be a liability if the opponent has a Fire type. I ripped these EVs from ya boi's RU repertoire, but they seem to work. Definitely takes advantage of his awesome special bulk and leaves just enough in physical defense to help him stand up to Kyu-B. Open to suggestions on best spreads.

252 SpA Magearna All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 188 HP / 144+ SpD Snorlax: 306-360 (60.2 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Magearna Focus Blast vs. 188 HP / 144+ SpD Snorlax: 192-228 (37.7 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 188 HP / 176 Def Snorlax: 168-198 (33 - 38.9%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (60 BP) vs. 188 HP / 176 Def Snorlax: 75-88 (14.7 - 17.3%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ SpA Celesteela Supersonic Skystrike (140 BP) vs. 188 HP / 144+ SpD Snorlax: 162-192 (31.8 - 37.7%) -- 92.6% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 188 HP / 144+ SpD Snorlax: 223-264 (43.8 - 51.9%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 188 HP / 176 Def Snorlax: 231-273 (45.4 - 53.7%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 188 HP / 176 Def Snorlax: 463-546 (91.1 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 188 HP / 144+ SpD Snorlax in Electric Terrain: 195-231 (38.3 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Tapu Koko Gigavolt Havoc (175 BP) vs. +1 188 HP / 176 Def Snorlax in Electric Terrain: 295-348 (58 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 188 HP / 144+ SpD Snorlax in Psychic Terrain: 244-288 (48 - 56.6%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. +1 188 HP / 176 Def Snorlax in Psychic Terrain: 220-261 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Zapdos Discharge vs. 188 HP / 144+ SpD Snorlax: 76-91 (14.9 - 17.9%) -- possible 6HKO
0 SpA Venusaur-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 188 HP / 144+ SpD Snorlax: 84-100 (16.5 - 19.6%) -- possible 6HKO
0 Atk Snorlax Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 156-188 (44.3 - 53.4%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Inferno Overdrive (185 BP) vs. 188 HP / 144+ SpD Snorlax: 342-403 (67.3 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 188 HP / 144+ SpD Snorlax: 204-241 (40.1 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Flamethrower vs. 188 HP / 144+ SpD Snorlax in Sun: 190-225 (37.4 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Focus Blast vs. 188 HP / 144+ SpD Snorlax: 224-264 (44 - 51.9%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Flare Blitz vs. +1 188 HP / 176 Def Snorlax: 192-226 (37.7 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. +1 188 HP / 176 Def Snorlax: 300-354 (59 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Gigavolt Havoc (180 BP) vs. +1 188 HP / 176 Def Snorlax in Electric Terrain: 270-318 (53.1 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Look out for Taunt (Fini, Skarm, some Mew), Wow/Toxic (Mew, Gengar, Toxapex, MSableye), Knock Off (Ferrothorn, Tangrowth, Clefable, MSableye), and Tricksters (Lati@s, Jirachi, Victini). And think about Facade > Body Slam if you want to feel truly invincible.
 

Ktütverde

of course
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Former Smogon Metagame Tournament Circuit Champion
I've used a arcanine semistall team and he allowed me to win by abosrbing a 80% damage AoA Magearna and Morning sunning before it clicks thunderbolt. It also prevented a landorus sweep by revenge killing it after it killed my celesteela and scizor so I strongly recommend using this set:

Arcanine @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly
Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Bulldoze
- Flare Blitz
- Morning Sun
 

cityscapes

Take care of yourself.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
introducing

icy boi (the better one) with the real strongest explosion

Glalie-Mega @ Glalitite
Ability: Inner Focus
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Frustration
- Spikes
- Earthquake
- Explosion

i'm still not very good at ou but i wanted to share this with you guys because it's kinda cool. everyone likes to hype up spikes in this meta so i decided to try out one of my favorite megas because it's one of the best spikes setters. it beats like half the removers and just explodes on the other half

thanks to its amazing offensive typing/coverage, mega glalie does excellently against balance. even if they have fini or something you can just throw up spikes on it and wear it down over the course of the game. alternatively you can just click explosion for easy momentum. pex avoids 2hko from eq but it doesn't stop you from getting up spikes vs stall (good)

it does terribly against offense and taking hits in general though unfortunately. 80/80/80 bulk should be better than this

why use this over kyub? it trades mega slot for z slot and sets spikes i guess

calcs:
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie-Mega Explosion vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 361-426 (90.7 - 107%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (beware protect)
252 Atk Glalie-Mega Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 44 Def Heatran: 376-444 (100 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie-Mega Explosion vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 205-242 (58.4 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie-Mega Explosion vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 328-387 (105.4 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie-Mega Frustration vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 400-472 (104.7 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-675746681
 
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