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Alts: Arc Tech, FearTheHaxGods, probably others eventually (I like to only use 1 team of each tier per alt).
So far I've been using a team with a core of Arcanine/Slowbro/Amoonguss for double regenerator on my FearTheHaxGods alt. It's been working pretty well, but I've found Amoonguss to be underwhelming. He poses no real threat outside of spore. Clear smog does have its uses, but I'd like a phazer with a bit more versatility. Spore and Regenerator are pretty much all it has going for it. I feel he's pretty dead weight on any team that lacks an offensive water and has a sleep absorber. That said, thanks to regenerator he makes a pretty good pivot.
I'm using the sub BP mienshao set on Arc Tech now, I'll comment on him later when I've played with him more.
Alts: Arc Tech, FearTheHaxGods, probably others eventually (I like to only use 1 team of each tier per alt).
So far I've been using a team with a core of Arcanine/Slowbro/Amoonguss for double regenerator on my FearTheHaxGods alt. It's been working pretty well, but I've found Amoonguss to be underwhelming. He poses no real threat outside of spore. Clear smog does have its uses, but I'd like a phazer with a bit more versatility. Spore and Regenerator are pretty much all it has going for it. I feel he's pretty dead weight on any team that lacks an offensive water and has a sleep absorber. That said, thanks to regenerator he makes a pretty good pivot.
I'm using the sub BP mienshao set on Arc Tech now, I'll comment on him later when I've played with him more.
Roserade seems to outclass Amoonguss IMO. Roserade has better recovery in Synthesis, as well as Spikes/Toxic Spikes-something Amoonguss wants so badly. Roserade does have Sleep Powder-I know it's only 75% accuracy, but it's still a sleep move. It's not like it's Hypnosis. Clear Smog is ok I suppose-in walling DD Kingdra and DD Scrafty and SubCM Raikou-and Suicune I suppose-but he can't actually take two Outrage's from Kingdra. That Arcanine/Slowbro/Amoonguss core really needs some hazards. That's just my opinion though.
Clear Smog doesn't clear stat changes through Subs, it actually has to deal damage to work, so SubCM Raikou actually sets ups quite easily on Amoonguss.
However I've found that the double powder set, along with other paralysis support, makes Scrafty a monster to behold in UU. His main drawback from what I can see in most of the posts talking about him are that even with multiple DD's he's too slow to do much damage. Amoonguss puts one enemy sleep and halves the speed of at least one more pretty reliably, which greatly helps Scrafty sweep with either Bulk Up or Dragon Dance. Scrafty needs support to do a ton of damage in this metagame, but with the common scarfers on your opponents team paralyzed or sleeping he really can do work.
Roserade seems to outclass Amoonguss IMO. Roserade has better recovery in Synthesis, as well as Spikes/Toxic Spikes-something Amoonguss wants so badly. Roserade does have Sleep Powder-I know it's only 75% accuracy, but it's still a sleep move. It's not like it's Hypnosis. Clear Smog is ok I suppose-in walling DD Kingdra and DD Scrafty and SubCM Raikou-and Suicune I suppose-but he can't actually take two Outrage's from Kingdra. That Arcanine/Slowbro/Amoonguss core really needs some hazards. That's just my opinion though.
I guess that they don't really accomplish the same job. Roserade works more like a support while Amoonguss better job is a dedicated wall/tank. I have used a Slowbro/Amoonguss core and it have been working pretty fine.
At this point in the Research Group, I would like for everyone taking part in this to start going more in depth with their findings and posting logs, sets, teams, etc.
I have been using Scrafty, Ditto, Cresselia, Mienshao.
Scrafty first! I have only been using a specially defensive Bulk Up set with a few Speed EVs to make sure I out pace defensive Empoleon and most Rhyperior. It is pretty great to be honest and extremely bulky. Its faults are its very low initial power (Crunch cannot even OHKO Chandelure after hazards before a boost) and questionably typing. It basically is weak to no special move in UU but it sucks to have to take neutral damage from Raikou and Roserade and other powerful special attackers all the time because they hurt, a lot. It also gets OHKO'd by LO Mienshao after a boost which sucks and takes around 80% after two boosts. Remember though Scrafty has defenses matching Bronzong which is pretty bulky and it has a way to recover semi-reliably to boot. Do not rely on Rest too often though because it is just, well, unreliable. Shed Skin is good for healing up Rest sleep but I would say it has a bigger use in making sure things like Bronzong cannot just Toxic you as you set up and it helps avoids Scald burns.
But honestly those faults are nothing compared to its strengths, setting up on basically every defensive Pokemon is very fun. Bulky waters can only phaze you for so long but they always lose in last Pokemon situations. Bronzong is perfect fodder especially as many will let you have a free boost as they Toxic you on the first turn. Gligar needs both Taunt and Toxic to stand a chance against you if it switches in on a Bulk Up because it is easy to aim for defense drops with Crunch and Earthquake does like 13% or so after a boost and Leftovers. After two boosts Scrafty's low base power moves start to OHKO stuff that are weak to it which is very easily done. Scrafty also needs very little support outside of needing a team member to sponge Fighting moves because hazards do not really help its sweep, except perhaps Toxic Spikes which I did not try out or if you want to try Dragon Tail which I really would not recommend (Milotic and Suicune still phaze you out and you aren't really a wall so you shouldn't be switching into boosting Special attackers anyways. Crunch has just so much more use, letting you hit everything but Heracross for very good damage after a couple boosts. You can still beat Scarfcross after two Bulk Ups most of the time which is nice). Scrafty is pretty great and really needs to be prepared for.
I have been using Scarf Imposter Ditto like everyone else I am sure and it is quite decent. I never revenge sweep with it but that is because my opponents are too smart for that and never set up things Ditto can revenge so merely the presence of Ditto helps safeguard my team. Bulky set up Pokemon are of course more of a problem but it can deal with Bulk Up Scrafty to the point where your Ditto dies but their Scrafty is on low health and very killable. Please understand I never did this myself but it was done to me when I was using my own Scarfty though. Not being able to revenge kill Substitute users or most bulky boosters hurts Ditto because there are quite a few of them in UU but Ditto can have other purposes too. I copied Rapid Spin once on a Blastoise which might seem sub-optimal (Choice Scarf Spin!!!) but my opponent could not set up on it in fear of me coming back and revenge sweeping. It is not completely dead weight against defensive Pokemon as some people I am sure will say.
Cresselia is O.K. but I use a very strange Lunar Dance set which is not the standard. It has Psyshock, HP Fighting and Reflect as well. mainly you want Cresselia because it has cool resistances to Fighting and Ground but on closer inspection you find you never really beat Fighting Pokemon. Mienshao just runs away with U-Turn and Scrafty and Heracross get secondary STABs that ruin you. Cobalion I never fought with Cresselia except one set, which of course was a CM one. I am sure I could beat SD Cobalion if I could get a Reflect on the first turn though. Lunar Dance is here because I have several sweepers on my team including basically the best UU set up sweepers, Sub CM Raikou, RD Kingdra with double water STAB and BU Scrafty. really Lunar Dance was the only thing that appealed to my team so I used it, I am sure you would rather be abusing a sandless Moonlight now or something.
My team
Kingdra @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 172 Spd
Modest Nature
- Rain Dance
- Surf
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Transform
Raikou @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 128 HP / 76 Def / 52 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
Scrafty @ Leftovers
Trait: Shed Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 220 SDef / 36 Spd
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Rest
Empoleon @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 240 SDef / 16 Spd
Calm Nature
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Ice Beam
Mienshao is on a different team and I have been using a Sub+Baton Pass set which I find mediocre but I am almost sure it is because my team sucks not Mienshao. I really miss Fake Out which is easy to spam against teams with no good Mienshao switch in and U-Turns damage which is not very small at all. I know the damage because I use a LO Mienshao on an even more mediocre team. I find that the Substitue will rarely stay intact which I should anticipate but I find myself asking why do I not just use U-Turn instead of wasting time a moveslot with Substitute? It has helped me only once nab a Crobat and not once helped me against Chandelure. However I have on more than one occasion beat Sharpedo/Yanmega as they Protected on the Substitue which is nice but. Mienshao I feel is very good but I blame my lack of teambuilding skills for his lack of success.
My other team which actually uses Specs Chandelure over Victini so Slowbro doesn't completely 6-0 me.
Darmanitan @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Superpower
Victini @ Choice Band
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- U-turn
- Fusion Bolt
- Zen Headbutt
Mienshao @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Baton Pass
- Hi Jump Kick
- Substitute
- Stone Edge
Azelf @ Focus Sash
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Psychic
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock
Arcanine @ Life Orb
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- ExtremeSpeed
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Howl
Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Transform
I have been using Ditto a lot-and although half the time he is pretty damn useless, he has saved me quite a few times. No longer do I have to worry about a Kingdra getting to +3/+3, since I can reverse sweep with Ditto. Same goes for DD Scrafty
Well, I'm having some problems at home, bf and stuff so I'll slow down my testing a bit. But for now I used Scrafty, Ditto, Mienshao and Amoonguss. One team with the three first, the other with Mienshao and Amoonguss. I'll start with the team I did first.
Mienshao @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Hi Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Bounce
This team basically sucks and most of my losses (about 2/3) happened when I was using it. Nevertheless, even being such a bad team I could see one thing: Scrafty is a monster. Almost anything can stand against it and even what can is badly hurt. I tested the offensive DD moxie and bulky Bulk Up sets before, but this is the best set for this thing. He can easily get +2 or even +3 if you put him in the right time and sweep the entire opponent team with Crunch/Drain Punch. The ability to set up in front of almost every wall or support pokemon in UU is also very admirable. I used him mostly as a end game sweeper, but if you can find a good opportunity to set up in the beginning of the game he can 6x0 unprepared teams with ease.
Imposter Ditto as others have said is very circumstantial. Yeah, you don't worry about some stuff like RD Kingdra or DD Scrafty and it's cool scaring your opponent with the idea that if he's too greedy Ditto will catch him later, but most of times he isn't really that great. He can't touch opponents with subs, he can't stand against bulky sweepers and he can be a dead weight against some teams (mostly stall teams). I really wanna try a non-choice set because it's really fun put him in front of a sleeping Roserade or a Sableye and setup hazard or taunting your opponent to death. I didn't really tried a non-choice set, but theorymoning, he seems to be a good option to put against a dangerous opponent sweeper with low health with can't deal with himself and just proceed to kill him and take some other pokes in him too.
Choice Scarf Mienshao is okay. Not great, not bad, just okay. Yeah, it's cool revenge kill most of scarfed mons (bouncing against Heracross, by example) and stuff, but he really misses the life orb boost and doesn't appreciate being locked on something. He can work well against some teams and do a great job against some very dangerous sweepers, but he's too frail to stand for much time and being locked on non-100% accurate moves can be a pain on the ass. I still prefer Flygon spamming EQ or Outrage than Mienshao spamming HJK.
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The second team I have used uses some principles in the first as a base, but worked really better and came from 19/18 to 59/28 with it.
Lilligant @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sleep Powder
Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Outrage
- U-turn
Slowbro @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Slack Off
- Thunder Wave
- Scald
- Fire Blast
Mienshao @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- U-turn
- Hi Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
The first thing I have to say is that the Regenerator Core with Slowbro/Amoonguss/Mienshao is marvelous. I forgot how many times in the end game just the three stayed alive and it was enough to win.
LO Mienshao is just beautiful. The ability to spam Fake Out and U-Turn is wonderful and don't fearing the LO recoil just make it better. HJK is great against things that don't resist it and Stone Edge provides good coverage against things like Zapdos, Xatu and stuff. Him and Flygon together make a good "Turn-Turn" core too, even both being frail and covering their weakness so well.
Amoonguss is a particular poke. He can work as a good physical or special wall thanks to it's type, good HP stat and okay defenses, but can't really be a premier wall because his stats aren't that good. I tried using a 252 HP/252 SDef set first, but he turned to be too weak to sub sweepers, so I put a little bit of SAtk on him. I'm still testing a better EV Spread, but for now this is working fine. As I said above, he works very well with Slowbro and Mienshao, but he works even better with another special wall in the team (Togekiss in my case) to sponge some strong SE moves that Slowbro can't really deal with. Spore is great as everyone knows and I can say that it's the principal selling point on him over another special walls (even more than Regenerator), but Clear Smog is a very, very mischievous move and can make some opponents cry (Raikou without subs, by example). Weather isn't that common in UU, but he would really appreciate recover over synthesis, this can be fatal sometimes.
Being one of the few things I have tested in this metagameso far, I can say that "double status" is completely amazing for balanced teams since amoonguss can sponge a lot of attacks and cripple a lot of sweepers. Way to go when using Amoonguss IMO
I'm ending this tomorrow so finish posting results and/or message me with suggestions for the next one!
EDIT: Okay, this RG is officially over. There will be no winner declared this time due to the large amount of downtime and the ladder reset on Pokemon Showdown!
I'm leaving this open for a few more days in case someone wants to post other results.
I have to agree with Arc Tech when he says Amoongus is underwhelming. The most effective set I found was using double status (spore and stun spore), which can help slower sweepers such as Heracross clean up easier. Always try to save Spore for as late game as possible, where your opponent will have less Pokes to sacrifice. This will hopefully open up a hole in their team, allowing you to sweep with something.
Sorry I couldn't post logs or anything but I've been really busy lately. Will try to post more next time.
I'd just like to say that Cresselia is not worth using really. The bulky wall is IMO wors in UU than it is in OU-as it is complete set-up bait for substitute users, as well as the likes of Heracross and Scrafty-two of the most dangerous sweepers in the tier.
