scratch that I'm using a new alt cuz ladder lag fucked me over pretty badly
c-glehawk
pokemon: Dragalge
c-glehawk
pokemon: Dragalge
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Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Research Week ORAS Edition [Week 2] Won by ~Volbeatdown~
- Thread starter Kink
- Start date
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I'd never recommend starting a new alt unless you're changing mons.
tbf i forgot i was on an alt and started using my banded mienshao team :\
So, at what point on Saturday does this all expire?
I haven't had much of a chance to ladder with the holiday and all, and I'm currently only at 1493. I might get a bit more in tonight, but I'll be traveling most of tomorrow. Just trying to figure out if I should write everything up tonight or work on it tomorrow when I get back home.
I haven't had much of a chance to ladder with the holiday and all, and I'm currently only at 1493. I might get a bit more in tonight, but I'll be traveling most of tomorrow. Just trying to figure out if I should write everything up tonight or work on it tomorrow when I get back home.
~Volbeatdown~ wins week 2 with score of 1515. Well done.
Well done, ~Volbeatdown~ !
So, I had mixed results this week. With the holidays and traveling, I didn't really have a ton of time to ladder. I peaked with the team I was using at 1505, but then lost three games in a row due to time-outs, thanks to a really crappy connection at my in-laws' house, dropping me down to 1451.
Here is the team I was testing with:
The team was fairly simple. I wanted to use CBShao as a wallbreaker, punching through physical walls to allow for a Lucario sweep. To keep ghosts from ruining my day, I packed on Pursuit MAbsol.
In the end, CBShao worked about as I'd expected it to. It has really insane wallbreaking power and a solid speed tier, so it was a huge help against bulky offensive teams. The power of Reckless CB HJK meant that even things like (non physically defensive) Celebi, Nidoqueen and defensive Florges were no longer safe switch-ins, and I had a guaranteed 2HKO on defensive behemoths like Suicune and Hippowdon:
On the other hand, HJK is a tough move to be locked into, and with the exception of those really bulky threats, Scarfshao generally had enough power to more or less serve the same purpose. Scarfshao still has a pretty good chance of 2HKOing things like defensive Swampert, while also providing a great offensive check to serious threats like MegaZam and Scarf Hydreigon.
I know this shouldn't come as a shock to anyone - CBShao is a wallbreaker and plays as such, while Scarfshao is obviously better against offensive teams. Still, I found that Mienshao is so incredibly fragile that I really needed to play him as a hit-and-run offensive threat, since he can't really switch into anything. It was hard to reliably get him in against those same threats I wanted him to wallbreak versus, since it often meant eating a Scald or EQ or whatever. While there were definitely times where CBShao was the champ, there were many other times where I felt like I would have preferred something more useful (Kyurem in particular breaks a lot of the bulky threats that I wanted Mienshao to break, and can actually switch in to most of them).
That doesn't mean that I think CBShao was bad - power-wise, he was pretty insane. His closest analogue would be CB Darm, one of my favorite wallbreakers. While CB Darm has a bit more power and a way more spammable move, Mienshao has a much better Speed tier and doesn't constantly kill itself with rocks and recoil. I still think in general I prefer CB Darm as a wallbreaker on most teams, but I can definitely see where Mienshao would be the superior choice. If I were to use him again, I might put him on a team with some U-turn or Volt Switch support to get him in easier, or something along those lines.
TL;DR version: CBShao was solid but didn't rock my world. He did what he was supposed to, but he faces stiff competition from other wallbreakers. Make sure you're specifically using him to break threats that Scarfshao fails to relialy bust, such as Suicune, or else there's no real point in using him.
I didn't get a ton of decent replays - like I said, I was traveling for most of this week and spotty internet was kind of the bane of my laddering. Still, here are a few:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-197232313 – Against Captain Fuccboi, #3 on the ladder. Mienshao definitely pulls his weight here, as CB HJK does 53% to Celebi, preventing it from being a safe switch-in.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-197229988 – CBShao sweep, although Scarfshao would have done just as well here.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-197207840
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-197203915
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-197069218
So, I had mixed results this week. With the holidays and traveling, I didn't really have a ton of time to ladder. I peaked with the team I was using at 1505, but then lost three games in a row due to time-outs, thanks to a really crappy connection at my in-laws' house, dropping me down to 1451.
Here is the team I was testing with:
Mienshao @ Choice Band
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
Absol @ Absolite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Play Rough
Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch
- Extreme Speed
Shaymin @ Choice Specs
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Healing Wish
Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Damp
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Roar
Crobat @ Black Sludge
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Atk / 4 SpD / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Toxic
- Defog
- Roost
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
Absol @ Absolite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Play Rough
Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch
- Extreme Speed
Shaymin @ Choice Specs
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Healing Wish
Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Damp
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Roar
Crobat @ Black Sludge
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Atk / 4 SpD / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Toxic
- Defog
- Roost
The team was fairly simple. I wanted to use CBShao as a wallbreaker, punching through physical walls to allow for a Lucario sweep. To keep ghosts from ruining my day, I packed on Pursuit MAbsol.
In the end, CBShao worked about as I'd expected it to. It has really insane wallbreaking power and a solid speed tier, so it was a huge help against bulky offensive teams. The power of Reckless CB HJK meant that even things like (non physically defensive) Celebi, Nidoqueen and defensive Florges were no longer safe switch-ins, and I had a guaranteed 2HKO on defensive behemoths like Suicune and Hippowdon:
- 252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Florges: 173-204 (48 - 56.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 186-219 (46 - 54.2%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 243-286 (60.1 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 238-282 (56.6 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 208-246 (58.9 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
On the other hand, HJK is a tough move to be locked into, and with the exception of those really bulky threats, Scarfshao generally had enough power to more or less serve the same purpose. Scarfshao still has a pretty good chance of 2HKOing things like defensive Swampert, while also providing a great offensive check to serious threats like MegaZam and Scarf Hydreigon.
I know this shouldn't come as a shock to anyone - CBShao is a wallbreaker and plays as such, while Scarfshao is obviously better against offensive teams. Still, I found that Mienshao is so incredibly fragile that I really needed to play him as a hit-and-run offensive threat, since he can't really switch into anything. It was hard to reliably get him in against those same threats I wanted him to wallbreak versus, since it often meant eating a Scald or EQ or whatever. While there were definitely times where CBShao was the champ, there were many other times where I felt like I would have preferred something more useful (Kyurem in particular breaks a lot of the bulky threats that I wanted Mienshao to break, and can actually switch in to most of them).
That doesn't mean that I think CBShao was bad - power-wise, he was pretty insane. His closest analogue would be CB Darm, one of my favorite wallbreakers. While CB Darm has a bit more power and a way more spammable move, Mienshao has a much better Speed tier and doesn't constantly kill itself with rocks and recoil. I still think in general I prefer CB Darm as a wallbreaker on most teams, but I can definitely see where Mienshao would be the superior choice. If I were to use him again, I might put him on a team with some U-turn or Volt Switch support to get him in easier, or something along those lines.
TL;DR version: CBShao was solid but didn't rock my world. He did what he was supposed to, but he faces stiff competition from other wallbreakers. Make sure you're specifically using him to break threats that Scarfshao fails to relialy bust, such as Suicune, or else there's no real point in using him.
I didn't get a ton of decent replays - like I said, I was traveling for most of this week and spotty internet was kind of the bane of my laddering. Still, here are a few:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-197232313 – Against Captain Fuccboi, #3 on the ladder. Mienshao definitely pulls his weight here, as CB HJK does 53% to Celebi, preventing it from being a safe switch-in.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-197229988 – CBShao sweep, although Scarfshao would have done just as well here.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-197207840
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-197203915
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-197069218
Last edited:
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