Round

Generation V introduced the move Round, obviously intended for Doubles/Triples play. It is a 60 BP, fully accurate special-type Normal attack. When one pokemon on your team uses it, all others who selected Round that turn will move immediately after that pokemon (similar to After You) and perform their attack with 120 BP instead of 60.

Now, After You could potentially be a potent effect in doubles (allowing a slow, fully invested bulky attacker to get the drop on faster opponents)...except nothing fast gets it, rendering it near useless. The only possible use is something with After You and, say, Role Play (Clefable gets both) using Role Play on a Prankster pokemon, but this starts to get far too convoluted to be practical. Round, however, is learned by nigh everything, but it only produces the effect if your second attacker is also using Round.

Which brings us to the second problem: As an attacking move, Round sucks. Normal is a shoddy attacking type, and the list of high Special Attack Normal-types is: Porygon-Z, Meloetta, then...Pyroar. While Meloetta is solid thanks to high versatility and additional options outside of Round, Porygon-Z lacks other STABs and often likes Choice sets to compensate for this (and Choice-locked Round is a bad place to be) and Pyroar is, well, Pyroar. These issues have made Round close to unusable due to the ease with which it is countered and the shockingly low pool of viable STAB users, leading to it being much more efficient to simply max SpA/Spe on a regular attacker in order to gain the speed advantage, even at the cost of a bit of bulk.

Two abilities have changed all this, though: Pixielate and Refrigerate. Aerilate not so much since Mega Pinsir's SpA is terrible, but I guess you could give it a go for shock value. With these abilities, Sylveon, Mega Gardevoir, and Aurorus can all score not only STAB on Round, but an additional +30% damage thanks to the conversion effect of these abilities. Additionally, these three pokemon are all highly effective bulky attackers, with Sylveon sporting solid 95/65/130 defensive bulk and 110 SpA, Aurorus sitting at 123/72/92 with just under 100 SpA, and Gardevoir having the somewhat physical-weak 68/65/135 but with an incredible 165 SpA.

Giving any of them access to a base power 156 STAB attack, effectively a typed Hyper Beamlike attack with full accuracy and no recharge turn, and with the speed of a much faster ally Pokemon, is incredibly dangerous. Doubly so since their impressive bulk allows them to potentially survive the hit from any remaining opponents to do it again next turn.

Effective Round allies fall into two categories: Fast with good SpA so they can deal decent damage with their wimpy Round, or fast and bulky so they can live through attempted reprisals to support further Rounding. Additional qualities may include a high Attack stat and/or wide support movepool to allow the pokemon to perform other roles when Round combo is not an option (Round attackers should also have access to these additional options, since banking everything on the one strategy is a risky maneuver). To illustrate these points, I have prepared two prototype Round sets for Mega Aerodactyl and Auroros (Fossil buddies!) to make use of:

Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 HP/252+ Spe/4 Atk
Moveset:
Protect
Round
Rock Slide / Stone Edge
Tailwind / Taunt / Other support option

Mega Aerodactyl's uninvested Attack is solid, meaning Rock Slide can dent opponents in addition to the flinching. Stone Edge instead allows for high single-target damage. Protect is a solid move in doubles, doubly so since Mega Evolution boosts Aerodactyl's defenses quite considerably. Tailwind support may be needed to counter opposing Tailwind support and generally provides a backup strategy, while Taunt shuts down slower support users (and prevents Trick Room). Unnerve is the only useful ability available and can potentially foil predicted resist berries or Sitrus.

Aurorus @ Assault Vest
Nature: Modest
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 132 HP/124 Def/252+ SpA
Moveset:
Round
Nature Power / Blizzard
Charge Beam / Discharge / Thunderbolt / Thunder
Mirror Coat / Dark Pulse / Flash Cannon / Psychic

Auroros's maximally invested SpA reaches 326, easily solid enough for our purposes. The given defensive EV split provides the best mixed bulk balance, but can be varied to achieve a desired level of heavier bulk on one side (the nature may also be tweaked if desired). Assault Vest complements the lack of good support options and provides solid additional bulk, although it can be swapped out for an item to boost attacks further if desired (in which case Protect is a nice option for the fourth slot). The second slot holds Ice STAB of choice, Nature Power becomes Refrigerate-boosted Tri Attack dealing more damage than an Ice Beam would, while Blizzard double hits and works better if hail is expected. The third slot rounds out BoltBeam coverage, with the choice based on team and preference: Charge Beam offers more Round power, Discharge is useful if teammate immunity or Protect is expected, Thunderbolt is the solid, reliable option, and Thunder is good on rain teams. Finally, the last slot holds additional coverage of choice depending on what opponents your team needs to hit, or Mirror Coat for an option that takes advantage of Aurorus's high AssVest special bulk and high HP to unexpectedly sponge special hits and KO the attacker.

So, do these new factors make Round worth slotting onto a team as a side option or even entire team focus, or is the strategy still too gimmicky and easily disrupted to succeed?
 

Arcticblast

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Honestly, Round seems like it just isn't that viable in Doubles - if we were playing Triples, maybe, but not here; the first hit is a single target base 60 move, which in all honesty isn't getting you anywhere fast and could leave the opponent able to attack. It's really easy to disrupt - Fake Out will mess it up, Protect could possibly mess it up, faster things mess it up... it honestly seems more like a lame gimmick than a valid strategy.

I'm leaving this open in case someone can put it in a better light (also because it's a very well written thread).
 
I started with Triples in Gen VI and then moved to doubles, but like Arcticblast said it's not nearly as viable in Doubles. Pretty nasty in Triples, though. (also worth noting, it auto-retargets away from a fainted opponent _and_ strikes from across the field -- ouch!)

This might be best as a plan-B. Arcticblast mentioned Fake Out but Hitmontop is a popular round 1 mon who is STAB 4x effective against Aurorus. Aurorus has middle-of-the-road defenses and two 4x weaknesses (both of which have priority moves: Bullet Punch and Mach Punch), so it's pretty risky. Aerodactyl on the other hand is pretty reliable initiator, should be safe against being outsped and OHKOed if it's speed built. (and many of its threats are susceptible to special) But it's also too fragile to be a round 1 mon. It can easily be weakened to a point that priority moves could finish it.

This is really a "preview looks good, lets try this" option.
 
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Yeah, I just sorta threw the first two options I thought of in as the example sets. Sylveon @ Babiri Berry with a similar set might work better (covering for Bullet Punch), and while I suspect Aerodactyl is about as good as they come for initiators you're right about it not being a good round 1 option. There just isn't anything fast and tough enough to pull off round 1, frankly. Everything with enough speed, even Scarfed, lacks the defenses to come out round 1 safely. Intimidate leads are pretty much limited to Mega Manectric, with the next fastest being...Tauros, with Salamence coming in third at base 100 Speed which I'm pretty sure is too slow even with a Scarf. If it turns out not to be then that might be a possibility (although there's the whole Ice Shard issue...)

Honestly, Round seems like it just isn't that viable in Doubles - if we were playing Triples, maybe, but not here; the first hit is a single target base 60 move, which in all honesty isn't getting you anywhere fast and could leave the opponent able to attack. It's really easy to disrupt - Fake Out will mess it up, Protect could possibly mess it up, faster things mess it up... it honestly seems more like a lame gimmick than a valid strategy.

I'm leaving this open in case someone can put it in a better light (also because it's a very well written thread).
What exactly do you mean by "leave the opponent able to attack"? Unless I'm reading the move wrong (reading from here although if that's outdated and Round was changed then...), the second hit gets jumped up the speed queue to immediately after the first one so there's no window between the two for the enemy to attack: anything outsped by the first Round is automatically outsped by the second one (hence the comparison to After You). Unless you mean that the second hit might not KO the target, which is a pretty fair concern I guess (not sure how build-arounds would work for that, probably having the initiator equipped to deal with things that second-hit Round isn't gonna KO, which could work). Fake Out will admittedly need to be predicted around, but you can do that with Protect reasonably effectively, at least some of the time.

With my initial "OMG HYPER BEEM AT SUPER SPEEEEED" enthusiasm having worn off I can definitely see why this isn't a viable strategy for an entire teambuild, but the sacrifices in order to run it are fairly low (the pokemon that enable it are good anyway and they need to give up one moveslot each) so I can see it as a potential "plan B" as sarysa said. I'll be honest, being able to access that power with increased speed and bulk alongside it does seem very attractive to me and I do sorta feel like there's a way to work it into a larger team to provide an extra tool without disrupting the team too much. Maybe just throw Megadactyl and Sylveon onto a team where they fit well, or use Aurorus and try to dodge the priority problems? As a newbie I'm very interested in input from more experienced doubles players on how this trick could enrich a team at low cost. (gotta dash, I'll probably update this post/the OP later on)
 

Arcticblast

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What exactly do you mean by "leave the opponent able to attack"? Unless I'm reading the move wrong (reading from here although if that's outdated and Round was changed then...), the second hit gets jumped up the speed queue to immediately after the first one so there's no window between the two for the enemy to attack: anything outsped by the first Round is automatically outsped by the second one (hence the comparison to After You). Unless you mean that the second hit might not KO the target, which is a pretty fair concern I guess (not sure how build-arounds would work for that, probably having the initiator equipped to deal with things that second-hit Round isn't gonna KO, which could work). Fake Out will admittedly need to be predicted around, but you can do that with Protect reasonably effectively, at least some of the time.
Well considering Round is a single target move, here's how your turn order goes down (assuming you move first):
Your side:
Mew Eevee
Opponent's side:
Abra Axew
(these are just short Pokemon names used as examples)

Turn 1:
- Mew uses Round, does ~40% to Abra
Here, Eevee can use Round on either Abra (which we'll say is a guaranteed KO) or Axew (which is NOT a OHKO).
Situations:
- Eevee attacks Abra and Abra faints; Axew deals massive damage to one of your Pokemon
- Eevee attacks Axew and Axew does not faint; Abra and Axew can both wreak havoc

The point is that the first turn of Round is so pitifully weak that you have to essentially double-target something to reliably kill it, which is really easy to disrupt. That leaves your opponent's other Pokemon free to do whatever it wants.
 
Even in Doubles/Triples, Round isn't very good unless you double/triple stack the Rounds on one single opponent, which leaves the other one/two Pokémon to run roughshod over the Pokémon out on the field.
 
Well considering Round is a single target move, here's how your turn order goes down (assuming you move first):
Your side:
Mew Eevee
Opponent's side:
Abra Axew
(these are just short Pokemon names used as examples)

Turn 1:
- Mew uses Round, does ~40% to Abra
Here, Eevee can use Round on either Abra (which we'll say is a guaranteed KO) or Axew (which is NOT a OHKO).
Situations:
- Eevee attacks Abra and Abra faints; Axew deals massive damage to one of your Pokemon
- Eevee attacks Axew and Axew does not faint; Abra and Axew can both wreak havoc

The point is that the first turn of Round is so pitifully weak that you have to essentially double-target something to reliably kill it, which is really easy to disrupt. That leaves your opponent's other Pokemon free to do whatever it wants.
Ah, I see what you're saying, so the power of the second hit isn't sufficiently reliable to one-shot things. I'll take your word for that (although I might give it a test just to see for myself). On the other hand, if you KO one opponent and they inflict heavy damage, isn't that still a win for you if both yours survi- oh hang on they can, like, bring in a Fake Outer or something and double KO you back can't they. I'm starting to realize that the lack of priority on any decent Round users makes it very difficult to deal with stuff like that.

Does the situation improve if they have one extremely dire threat and one support pokemon/pokemon that isn't able to retaliate as hard, or if you can muster up enough power to one-shot something (say, by using Life Orb)? Would it be possible to simply use other moves/pokemon in unfavourable round situations and apply the Round trick when there's something you really need to kill before it gets a turn off? (Should I take this conversation to PM to avoid spamming the forum? :V)
 
I started with Triples in Gen VI and then moved to doubles, but like Arcticblast said it's not nearly as viable in Doubles. Pretty nasty in Triples, though.
Believe me, no. If you use Rounds with all three pokemon only the second takes priority (and so the boost I guess).

The big problems with this move have already been stated: the first Round is pathetically weak and the move is single-target. Yes, it can have some use to get a surprise kill (like using Aftery You under TR to help a fast teammate) but otherwise it's not worth the moveslots.
 
Believe me, no. If you use Rounds with all three pokemon only the second takes priority (and so the boost I guess).
What? The first Round team I ever faced was a trio of Crobat (initiator), Mega Gardevoir, and Licklicky. I was lucky enough to catch on after the initial shock, but #3 absolutely has priority. My entire team outsped Licklicky under normal conditions. I had a scarfed Greninja on the field at the time so the Crobat had to have been scarfed as well.

Unfortunately, since Round took three hits to kill my bulky centerpiece in that battle (it had a sliver of health left when the third Round hit) and I interrupted the round from then on, I can't say whether or not it still had the damage boost or not.
 
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Greninja as a Round user for any of this. With Protean for STAB and a solid 103 base SpA, he's doing respectable damage on his own but works even better to initiate with his base 122 speed which few pokemon can compete with. I've been having pretty great success with Greninja + Mega Gardevoir. Greninja being fully invested in speed and Timid nature alone usually lets him outspeed the competition while simply being good in doubles in his own right thanks to Mat Block among other things. Mega Gardevoir I opted to have a modest nature, and pump SpA and HP since speed is less of a concern as the follow-up. With the way Pixellate's math works, her Round easily OHKOs any legitimate threat.

I think its also important to know when and when not to rely on Round. If you see that pokemon you know can wreck havoc and needs to die NOW, you take care of him. Its important to have pokemon that are decent on their own so that you don't become a one-trick pony. Dazzling Gleam, Blizzard, Mat Block, etc. are all good moves in doubles and on pokemon who can use them well.
 
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Greninja as a Round user for any of this. With Protean for STAB and a solid 103 base SpA, he's doing respectable damage on his own but works even better to initiate with his base 122 speed which few pokemon can compete with. I've been having pretty great success with Greninja + Mega Gardevoir. Greninja being fully invested in speed and Timid nature alone usually lets him outspeed the competition while simply being good in doubles in his own right thanks to Mat Block among other things. Mega Gardevoir I opted to have a modest nature, and pump SpA and HP since speed is less of a concern as the follow-up. With the way Pixellate's math works, her Round easily OHKOs any legitimate threat.

I think its also important to know when and when not to rely on Round. If you see that pokemon you know can wreck havoc and needs to die NOW, you take care of him. Its important to have pokemon that are decent on their own so that you don't become a one-trick pony. Dazzling Gleam, Blizzard, Mat Block, etc. are all good moves in doubles and on pokemon who can use them well.
Ooh, I completely forgot about Greninja when I was looking for Normal-types with good Round options. 90 BP still isn't huge, but coming off respectable SpA it's enough to actually be noticeable.
 
Technician actually boosts the first move so it is slightly less pitiful. You have Technician special attackers such as Roserade and Mr. Mime.
 
Is pixelate a good skill for using Round? Any tests with mega gardevoir?

Btw, I've seen friends using jolteon + sylveon round on doubles and doing fairly well.
 

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