Rowlet, Dartrix, Decidueye Discussion

At first, I thought it would have Greninja tier stats with some good ability like Stakeout. Decidueye is surprisingly tanky and versatile. It can hold well on its own in the current OU meta with beating a good amount of Pokemon depending on its set. It is also a pretty devastating tool against stall.

Deciduye @ Leftovers
Ability: Long Reach
EVs: 248 HP / 120 Def / 140 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spirit Shackle
- Curse/Toxic/Substitute
- U-turn/Baton Pass
- Roost/Synthesis/Haze

-With Spirit Shackle, you can trap any thing on Stall that isn't Chansey, M-Sableye, Blissey, or Porygon.
-Curse can let you kill anything that lacks recover in as simple as 4 turns, but puts you at risk of dying to more physical attacking Pokemon like Hippo. Toxic will automatically kill any non-steel or poison type and if they don't have Heal Bell or Rest. Substitute can also be an option that would go with Baton Pass so you can have 2 turns to set up (unless they get past your Sub in some way) and prevents pretty much any stallmon from poisoning you.
-U-turn can be used after Spirit Shackle or Switch predictions to have the upper hand and Long Reach prevents Rocky Helmet and Rough Barb damage. Baton pass does the same, but is only useful for passing subs (or Nasty Dances if you want on different sets).
-Roost is used as a constant way to heal yourself with consistent results, while Synthesis can get more from Sun if it is up (which I would only recommend if you have Charizard-Y on your team). Haze is used to make Crocune and the likes cry themselves to sleep.
-It Ghost typing allows it to easily escape Stag and Arena Trap (if it comes back) and makes it immune to Normal/Fighting, walling Chansey further. Its grass typing also allows it to avoid Spore, Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, etc.

The EVs given allow Decidueye to tank hits from plenty of OU mons.

+6 0 SpA Suicune (OU Crocune set) Scald vs. 248 HP / 140+ SpD Decidueye: 125-147 (34.5 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 248 HP / 140+ SpD Decidueye: 142-168 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 120 Def Decidueye: 129-153 (35.9 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

4 SpA Starmie Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 120 Def Decidueye: 94-112 (26.1 - 31.1%) -- 14.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Tangrowth Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 120 Def Decidueye: 154-182 (42.8 - 50.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 120 Def Decidueye: 108-128 (30 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 120 Def Decidueye: 130-153 (36.2 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Hippowdon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 120 Def Decidueye: 87-103 (24.2 - 28.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 120 Def Decidueye: 123-145 (34.2 - 40.3%) -- 48.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Decidueye is likely to be High RU to mid-UU, but I can see it having a really nice niche in OU.
 
At first, I thought it would have Greninja tier stats with some good ability like Stakeout. Decidueye is surprisingly tanky and versatile. It can hold well on its own in the current OU meta with beating a good amount of Pokemon depending on its set. It is also a pretty devastating tool against stall.

Deciduye @ Leftovers
Ability: Long Reach
EVs: 248 HP / 120 Def / 140 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spirit Shackle
- Curse/Toxic/Substitute
- U-turn/Baton Pass
- Roost/Synthesis/Haze

-With Spirit Shackle, you can trap any thing on Stall that isn't Chansey, M-Sableye, Blissey, or Porygon.
-Curse can let you kill anything that lacks recover in as simple as 4 turns, but puts you at risk of dying to more physical attacking Pokemon like Hippo. Toxic will automatically kill any non-steel or poison type and if they don't have Heal Bell or Rest. Substitute can also be an option that would go with Baton Pass so you can have 2 turns to set up (unless they get past your Sub in some way) and prevents pretty much any stallmon from poisoning you.
-U-turn can be used after Spirit Shackle or Switch predictions to have the upper hand and Long Reach prevents Rocky Helmet and Rough Barb damage. Baton pass does the same, but is only useful for passing subs (or Nasty Dances if you want on different sets).
-Roost is used as a constant way to heal yourself with consistent results, while Synthesis can get more from Sun if it is up (which I would only recommend if you have Charizard-Y on your team). Haze is used to make Crocune and the likes cry themselves to sleep.
-It Ghost typing allows it to easily escape Stag and Arena Trap (if it comes back) and makes it immune to Normal/Fighting, walling Chansey further. Its grass typing also allows it to avoid Spore, Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, etc.

The EVs given allow Decidueye to tank hits from plenty of OU mons.

+6 0 SpA Suicune (OU Crocune set) Scald vs. 248 HP / 140+ SpD Decidueye: 125-147 (34.5 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 248 HP / 140+ SpD Decidueye: 142-168 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 120 Def Decidueye: 129-153 (35.9 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

4 SpA Starmie Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 120 Def Decidueye: 94-112 (26.1 - 31.1%) -- 14.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Tangrowth Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 120 Def Decidueye: 154-182 (42.8 - 50.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 120 Def Decidueye: 108-128 (30 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 120 Def Decidueye: 130-153 (36.2 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Hippowdon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 120 Def Decidueye: 87-103 (24.2 - 28.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 120 Def Decidueye: 123-145 (34.2 - 40.3%) -- 48.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Decidueye is likely to be High RU to mid-UU, but I can see it having a really nice niche in OU.
I like the set, showing more of its bulk power here. Not sure about how well curse will work out, I want to test this thing on ladder ASAP because I know it can do something well, but we just havent found it yet

I was reading through your calcs, and I noticed some problems with some of the sets. Landorus-T would only have 0 atk invested if it were the defensive variant, and if it WERE that set, it could just U-Turn out like with shadow tag or mean look, meaning you wont be able to trap it.

Choice Band Azumarill would auto switch out if it hit decidueye with waterfall in fear of the shackles, if you hit it as it goes in, you have to worry about play rough, which comes out to 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 120 Def Decidueye: 292-345 (81.3 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery, much worse than 3HKO after leftover recovery, 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.

Suicune isnt very popular in OU, so i wouldnt be too worried for it there, but in UU, it would auto switch out more than likely if it wasnt the rest-talk set, even then I believe that suicune still beats decidueye due to access to scald burns, calm-mind, rest, and pressure stall.

Starmie, you wouldnt really need to worry about the defensive variant when comparing the two, since grass/ghost should beat water/psychic 1v1, so you need to worry more about the offensive one. Fortnunately, ice beam only hits about 50%, unfortunately, shackles wont OHKO, so you would lose 1v1 sadly.

Tangrowth is a fair one to check, if i werent aware that of the decidueye evs, i'd stay in for knock off. you'd have to rely on toxic/curse to kill it since shackles would only do 17.1% max to the physically defensive variant and 22.2 to the Assault vest variant.

hippo likely wouldnt stay in, so idk if its worth the calc for that one

Ferrothorn is a good matchup for decidueye, but requires curse in order to win the battle, which isnt very good since you'd be at 50% hp before it hits you.

I like the idea, dont get me wrong, but you'd want to focus on calcs that would happen more often than not. Most of these mons wouldnt stay in against decidueye, so they arent the best ones to show its matchup. You would want to see vs an average sweeper or even a wallbreaker for how hard it gets hit, these calcs would be more along the lines of where you would switch decidueye in. So showing how it would fair against mons like clefable, landorus-t using sets like choice scarf, latios, scizor, T-Tar, matchups where it would make sense for the other side to bring it in vs decidueye, cause more often than not, that decides if a mon can make it in the tier.
 
Last edited:
I'm thinking along the lines of a defensive core with this and Toxapex. Something like....

Decidueye @ Leftovers
EVs: 248 Hp/20 Atk/240 SpDef
Ability: Long Reach
Careful/Adamant Nature
-Spirit Shackle
-U-turn/Leaf Blade
-Roost/Synthesis
-Defog/Leaf Blade

Would handle psychic and ground types that give tox trouble, and to a lesser extent electric types.

Edit: Add Ttar to that core and it's GG. I prefer ScarfTar. Maybe throw in a overcoat Kommo-O or minior. Hell, why not both?
 
Last edited:
Is there really any benefit in running speed on this bird?
That depends on your team really. if you need a slow pivot, probably not. if you need to beat or check specific threats, it could be beneficial to invest a little.
But on most of the time i dont see it running speed evs
 
Is there really any benefit in running speed on this bird?
I think it can work with both. Although the speed tier isn't what we wanted, it isn't a completely useless one, and with a usable atk stat it can still do some positive things with speed investment.
 
Is there really any benefit in running speed on this bird?
70 Speed tier is pretty workable for offensive sets. Bisharp and Breloom work with it after all, but they obviously have the tremendous attack and strong priority to work with it. Going Jolly/Naive/Timid on those is a must. Defensively, it can be used to speed creep on Rotom-W and stuff probably, but other than that probably not more than 4 Speed EVs.

Offensive Decidueye would probably work something like this btw:

Decidueye @ Deciduium Z / Life Orb
Ability: Long Reach
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade / Low Sweep / Baton Pass
- Sprit Shackle
- Sucker Punch

Decidueye @ Deciduium Z / Choice Band / Choice Scarf
Ability: Long Reach
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Leaf Blade / Low Sweep
- Sprit Shackle
- Low Sweep / Brave Bird

Decidueye @ Life Orb / Leftovers / Colbur Berry
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute / Baton Pass
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball / Hidden Power Fighting / Baton Pass

It's niche is probably as either a defensive spinblocker/pivot or Defogger though. Someone mentioned earlier that Decidueye's a lot like Dragonite where it has a bunch of viable sets it could use, but not really any standout ones and I think I agree. It's also pretty comparable to Infernape in that sense, which it will probably be more like in terms of viability.
 
This thing actually could work pretty well alongside setup sweepers like CharX since the ability to negate double switching lessens the burden when setting up.
 
Decidueye seems like something you would really have to play with to understand. I can't really brainstorm a scenario where it would really be able to shackle something it would really want to stay in on to set up on or kill.
Feels like you wouldn't be able to trap anything until later in the game when people run low on "perfect" switch-ins. You know that point in the game where your Water Absorb/Storm Drain guy is dead so you settle and toss in your Grass type to tank the incoming water attack even though you know there's an Ice Attack coming next turn. That's the kind of things he'd be able to stay in on.
 
Decidueye seems like something you would really have to play with to understand. I can't really brainstorm a scenario where it would really be able to shackle something it would really want to stay in on to set up on or kill.
Probably. I'm thinking that at least early game, most of the things you trap with Spirit Shackle you'd want to use U-turn/Baton Pass/switch out on to lessen the things you'd need to predict and give yourself a little advantage. Setting up on stuff would probably on be a factor if either your opponent makes a mistake in prediction or if all of their answers to Decidueye are dead. Like the only things that you wouldn't want to Spirit Shackle would be Pursuit trappers, which you're already dead against unless you have a Substitute up or have a Colbur Berry.

I think Spirit Shackle will probably be causing setup situations for its teammates moreso than itself. Like if you manage to Spirit Shackle a Mega Venusaur, you can U-turn out, switch into your Salazzle and get a Nasty Plot up with little cost.
 
What I think hurts decidueye the most is it doesn't immediately trap a pokemon like arena trap, STAG or pursuit trappers. Against more offense oriented teams, this makes it easy for them to pressure Decidueye. Against stall, msabe takes neutral damage and can't get trapped as well as shutting down decidueye's ability to inflict status making it an easy switch in and chansey is straight up immune to spirit shackle.
 
Probably. I'm thinking that at least early game, most of the things you trap with Spirit Shackle you'd want to use U-turn/Baton Pass/switch out on to lessen the things you'd need to predict and give yourself a little advantage. Setting up on stuff would probably on be a factor if either your opponent makes a mistake in prediction or if all of their answers to Decidueye are dead. Like the only things that you wouldn't want to Spirit Shackle would be Pursuit trappers, which you're already dead against unless you have a Substitute up or have a Colbur Berry.

I think Spirit Shackle will probably be causing setup situations for its teammates moreso than itself. Like if you manage to Spirit Shackle a Mega Venusaur, you can U-turn out, switch into your Salazzle and get a Nasty Plot up with little cost.
This. I feel like the general idea with Decidueye isn't so much to kill or setup with it as it is to hit and run, while giving its teammates opportunities to setup or come in easily and hit things.
 
Take 20 BST of it's special attack and drop anywhere else, and this thing could be amazing. At least is usable and have some niches <3.

But since it already got that special attack, lets see the bright side. at least it have access to an usable Hidden power. Considering its ability to trap switch ins, you could equip it with a surgical HP (Fire, ground, ice) to eliminate otherwise good switch ins.

lots of people bring scizor as a problem, but with 70 base speed you still can outsped it and hit with a HP fire before it can u-turn, and assuming you hit it with spirit shackle in the switch in, the opponent cannot just switch to scout.

The problem here is 4MSS though.
 
Take 20 BST of it's special attack and drop anywhere else, and this thing could be amazing. At least is usable and have some niches <3.

But since it already got that special attack, lets see the bright side. at least it have access to an usable Hidden power. Considering its ability to trap switch ins, you could equip it with a surgical HP (Fire, ground, ice) to eliminate otherwise good switch ins.

lots of people bring scizor as a problem, but with 70 base speed you still can outsped it and hit with a HP fire before it can u-turn, and assuming you hit it with spirit shackle in the switch in, the opponent cannot just switch to scout.

The problem here is 4MSS though.
youll need over 100 EVs in special attack to 2 hit ko Scizor with hp fire, assuming you dont have a negative nature of special attack...doesnt make much sense to try and play this thing mixed....and going full special is meh cuz its get like no coverage at all. Inceneroar and Primarina are better largely in part because they have clear identities as physical and special attackers and dont waste 100 on a second offensive stat.
 
youll need over 100 EVs in special attack to 2 hit ko Scizor with hp fire, assuming you dont have a negative nature of special attack...doesnt make much sense to try and play this thing mixed....and going full special is meh cuz its get like no coverage at all. Inceneroar and Primarina are better largely in part because they have clear identities as physical and special attackers and dont waste 100 on a second offensive stat.
I totally agree that its special attack, the way this mon is designed, is a huge waste.. I was trying to salvage some utility out of it...
Victribell have the same special attack and chesnaught have the same attack as the owl, and submission works as a 80BP physical stabbed attack hitting neutral (Spirit shackle)

252+ Atk Life Orb Chesnaught Submission vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Scizor: 146-173 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Chesnaught Submission vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Mega Scizor: 109-130 (31.7 - 37.9%) -- 92.6% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Life Orb Victreebel Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Mega Scizor: 187-224 (54.5 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Uhm...a bulky set wouldnt do against the bulkier sets (I think are the more common this meta at least) which certainly limit its usefulness... an offensive life orb set could pull it though, specially if the scizor havent megaevolved the turn coming in...and rocks... but yeah, if your team is very scizor weak you could use it as a surprise i guess...

Edit: against non mega scizor could work better though, but you are probably better spamming spirit shackle and putting roost instead of HP fire
 
After a little math, I realized that Feather Dance is actually a really good move to run on this guy. His main two OU checks - Scizor and Bisharp - both get crippled by it. The preferable scenario is that you land the FD as they switch in on you.

I change the base stats of trevenant to get these calculations.

-2 108+ Atk Mega Scizor Knock Off vs. 112 HP / 212 Def Trevenant: 78-94 (24 - 28.9%) -- 98% chance to 4HKO

Those where against pursuit trapper Bish and Battle Spot Singles standard M-Scizor.

Basically he can cripple an opposing pokemon and live long enough to force a switch, where the Shackle shenanigans can begin. Here's the set that I was thinking of:

Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Long Reach
EVs: 112 HP / 140 Atk / 212 Def / 44 Spe
- Leaf Blade
- Roost
- Feather Dance
- Spirit Shackle

If I did this math thing wrong pls let me know.
 
After a little math, I realized that Feather Dance is actually a really good move to run on this guy. His main two OU checks - Scizor and Bisharp - both get crippled by it. The preferable scenario is that you land the FD as they switch in on you.

I change the base stats of trevenant to get these calculations.

-2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Bisharp Knock Off vs. 112 HP / 212 Def Trevenant: 134-162 (41.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

-2 108+ Atk Mega Scizor Knock Off vs. 112 HP / 212 Def Trevenant: 78-94 (24 - 28.9%) -- 98% chance to 4HKO


Those where against pursuit trapper Bish and Battle Spot Singles standard M-Scizor.

Basically he can cripple an opposing pokemon and live long enough to force a switch, where the Shackle shenanigans can begin. Here's the set that I was thinking of:

Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Long Reach
EVs: 112 HP / 140 Atk / 212 Def / 44 Spe
- Leaf Blade
- Roost
- Feather Dance
- Spirit Shackle

If I did this math thing wrong pls let me know.
Minor nitpick, but bisharp wouldn't be affected due to defiant.
 
After a little math, I realized that Feather Dance is actually a really good move to run on this guy. His main two OU checks - Scizor and Bisharp - both get crippled by it. The preferable scenario is that you land the FD as they switch in on you.

I change the base stats of trevenant to get these calculations.

-2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Bisharp Knock Off vs. 112 HP / 212 Def Trevenant: 134-162 (41.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO



If I did this math thing wrong pls let me know.
Defiant nullifies feather dance effect... o_o
 
How would it do with Assault Vest?
Probably not too great. Pursuit-weak, not particularly strong, and weak on the defensive side. Assault Vest probably wouldn't be too bad in practice, but Decidueye probably has better things to do. If it wants to check Water types and stuff it should just run a Specially Defensive set since it has access to Roost and some nice utility options in Defog and Toxic. This would be superior to an Assault Vest set imo:

Decidueye @ Leftovers/Colbur Berry
Ability: Long Reach
EVs: 244 HP / 48 Def / 216 SpD
Careful Nature
- Roost
- U-turn
- Sprit Shackle
- Defog / Leaf Blade / Toxic

The recovery alone is worth it, plus the ability to have either passive recovery in Leftovers or a way to deal with Pursuit trappers in Colbur Berry.
 
youll need over 100 EVs in special attack to 2 hit ko Scizor with hp fire, assuming you dont have a negative nature of special attack...doesnt make much sense to try and play this thing mixed....and going full special is meh cuz its get like no coverage at all. Inceneroar and Primarina are better largely in part because they have clear identities as physical and special attackers and dont waste 100 on a second offensive stat.
Are you taking into account the damage from Spirit Shackle? Have not run the calcs but it should kill with Spirit Shackle+ HP Fire.

This mon just needs to put 50 base points in sp attack and put them in speed, it should have been that way since its creation, damn you gamefreak.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top