Project RU Theorymon

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Natan

...
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
And btw, in the threat Poison is still "Posion"
I mean

"Slate of the Week

And
Freeze-Dry + POSION type"

Ok, you fixed
 
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Take Azelfie

More flags more fun
Since there is really no point to have voting I have decided to just remove it... also spirit said so.

Time for a new slate for discussion tho n-n

+ Magic Bounce + Fairy-type (suggested by gorex)
+ Sheer Force
 
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Wandering Wobbuffet

formerly Based Honker
First impression of sf floatzel is just kinda ehh. Sure it boosts floatzels 2 main attacking moves on both its sets but that's pretty much it. Water veil is really really nice on its physical sets since floatzel doesn't have to fear getting burned. So pretty much I would only ever run sheer force on the special sets.
 
First impression of sf floatzel is just kinda ehh. Sure it boosts floatzels 2 main attacking moves on both its sets but that's pretty much it. Water veil is really really nice on its physical sets since floatzel doesn't have to fear getting burned. So pretty much I would only ever run sheer force on the special sets.
I mean it boosts Ice Punch and Waterfall which I guess is nice. Also you should be running Lum if running Bulk Up anyways so...
Although it's also nice on special side for Ice Beam boost
 
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Natan

...
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
+ Magic Bounce and Fairy type: Seems interessting, Stealth Rock / Toxic and these things bounced, anyway, it loses the ability to check Ground-type, what doesn't seems good, but is thanks ability to reflect Status, can use Toxic spammers (aka Aromatisse) as setup fodders, and Life Orb seems really good, a useful speed tier plus good SpA and SpD, access to Nasty Plot, WoW, Taunt turn it into a useful thing and Bounce seems good. About Fairy type, it's like Cresselia Fairy + Ghost in OU Theorymons, with a not so good bulky, but enough to check Fighting types, with only 2 weakness (and not so common, Ghost and Steel), 4 immunities (Ground, Dragon, Normal and Fighting), it will be an awesome counter of Flygon and now takes neutral hit from Knock Off and Pursuit, even it will still take a considerable damage and lose its item, can avoid a OHKO some times. STAB Dazzling Gleam can hit Fighting, Dark, and Dragon and type. Its Fairy type, although, can give it a weakness to Steelix-Mega's supereffective damage and even burned can do a lot of damage, anyway it's a good option.
96+ Atk burned Mega Steelix Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Mismagius: 250-295 (77.1 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+ Sheer Foce: Seems awesome, Floatzel have an awesome speed tier (only Accelgor, Aerodactyl, Dugtrio, Jolteon, Meloetta-Pirouette, Sceptile, Swellow can outspeed it counting viable mons, and it can OHKO Dugtrio and Aerodactyl if runs Aqua Jet) Waterfall spamming can't count with a flinch chance, but its damage seems impressive, Ice Punch will deal many damage and turn it unchecked by Grass-types, and in its coverage, Crunch seems another awesome option that allows to hit any Water type with Neutral good damage, including (the main targets) Jellicent and Slowking, Aqua Jet is its priority. For special side I really guess Ice Beam will be awesome, Scald over Hydro Pump (almost the same base power counting Sheer Force, its like 106 against 110) as a more accurate option and it doesn't have low PP and don't cause recoil with Life Orb, Focus Blast and a Hidden Power just to hit don't struggle against Jellicent and Slowking (lol, Crunch > HP Grass / Electric on these 2, but still does more damage against many Water-types). Anyway, avoid LO recoil and get STABs/coverage that get a really impressive damage thanks to Sheer + LO seems really good. Let's calc this:
Floatzel @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Spe / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Crunch
- Aqua Jet

or

Floatzel @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Spe / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Focus Blast

(Note Naive + Crunch can be used, it doesn't seem really good, but allows you to 2HKO SpD Bronzong and deal more damage than HP Grass in Jellicent / Slowking, but HP works usually better)

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Floatzel Crunch vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Jellicent: 237-281 (58.8 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Floatzel Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Aromatisse: 169-200 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Floatzel Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Tangrowth: 161-192 (39.8 - 47.5%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Floatzel Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 213-252 (54.1 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Floatzel Crunch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 92-109 (31.5 - 37.3%) -- 85.3% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Floatzel Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Amoonguss: 268-317 (62 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Floatzel Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 125-148 (31 - 36.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Floatzel Crunch vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Jellicent: 172-203 (42.6 - 50.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Floatzel Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Slowking: 117-140 (29.7 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Floatzel Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 151-179 (38.4 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Floatzel Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blastoise: 122-146 (33.7 - 40.3%) -- 33.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Floatzel Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 114-136 (33.7 - 40.2%) -- 35.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Floatzel Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 109-129 (32.2 - 38.1%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Floatzel Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 179-213 (49.1 - 58.5%) -- 65.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Floatzel Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 177-208 (60.6 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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Magic Bounce Mismagius + Fairy type seems like both a blessing and a curse. On one hand, we have a Magic Bounce user that's able to threaten every hazard user in the tier, be it through offensive or defensive prowess. A good stall breaker, These traits are further characterized by how it cannot be taunted, statused, or used as hazard setup fodder. WoW further cripples pokemon that want to switch in, such as Dark-types like Absol. The icing on the cake is that it's now neutral to arguably the most threatening offensive typing in the tier, Dark, and can dispatch these pokemon easily with a STAB Dazzling Gleam.

So what's wrong?

Well, if not carrying WoW, it loses to one of the most common hazard setter in the tier, Steelix-Mega, and loses even with WoW sometimes due to its physical frality, which has still not been remedied. Again, losing to some of the most common pokemon in RU, such as Escavalier, Drapion, and Amoonguss, makes its life difficult. It suffers from a mild case of 4MSS, with taunt, pain split, WoW, NP, Shadow Ball/Hex, Dazzling Gleam, and Thunder Wave all being viable options in its arsenal.

Still definitely looks good, though.

Not much to say about Floatzel that hasn't already been said by Honker, Fin, or Nick, so there's not much I can say on that subject.
 

Take Azelfie

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Mismagius now having Magic Bounce can completely screw stall over especially with the lack of a Pursuit weakness now. It can use Taunt to shutdown Seismic Toss Registeel and get away with a lot more things now. It can run Leftovers > Colbur Berry as well which is neat for it. Sucks that is loses the Ground immunity but Magic Bounce becomes a very useful tool now. It can pressure Spike stacking teams immensely since it can reflect Spikes and block Rapid Spin. Truly a bane against for the likes of Qwilfish not that is has to run Posion Jab to get passed it. Garbodor gets slightly better due to this buff who rely on Mismagius for hazard control. Another thing that might look fun it trying out Mean Look + Perish Song due to its many immunities and resistances and Magic Bounce. This is a really solid Theorymon and probably will have an effect on the meta due to how Spike stacking teams will have to play now.


This is definately a minor buff and probably won't effect the meta as much as it just making a new Pokemon more viable then it use to be. Floatzel will have a really cool niche as a Water-type that can revenge kill Virizion as well as some other Pokemon. Here is a list of notable moves just to put it out there. Moves in bold get boosted by Sheer Force.
Aqua Jet, Waterfall, Hydro Pump, Scald, Baton Pass, Crunch, Focus Blast, Ice Beam, Ice Punch, Hidden Power [Type], Low Kick, Pursuit, Switcheroo.

discussion ends today and a new slate will be brought up tommorow.
 

twinkay

these bugs love all the sugar in my blood
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Mega Audino would be pretty cool with Soft-Boiled and Natural Cure. Obviously, getting a good defensive ability in singles would really help it out as a wall, and Audino would make a very good status check in most balance teams. Soft-Boiled is a healing option that works well, and helps make Audino even better defensively. Fairy is also a blessing and a curse, really, since it helps deal with top threats such as Virizion but hurts against others, such as Venusaur. Definitely an interesting option.

Oh, Phione. You've always been the overlooked one. Now that you've gained Tail Glow, you might be a great sweeper. The main problem I have with this however, is a mere base 80 speed stat, which is outsped by many pokemon who can deal super-effective damage to it. Like...
Manectric
Jolteon
Virizion
Rotom-M
Rotom
Sceptile
Thunder Punch Medicham
Freeze-Dry M-Glalie
Venusaur

Bold
indicates speed tie. But Medicham can run Scarf, so things are not looking too good for Phione.
Phione would be much better with speed control, such as Sticky Web.

252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Phione: 406-478 (111.5 - 131.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Virizion Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Phione: 445-525 (122.2 - 144.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Rotom-C Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Phione: 452-534 (124.1 - 146.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
132 SpA Rotom Discharge vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Phione: 224-266 (61.5 - 73%) -- guaranteed
2HKO
4 SpA Mega Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Phione: 212-252 (58.2 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Phione: 342-403 (93.9 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
 
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Natan

...
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
+ Soft-Boiled and Natural Cure: Audino seems really useful, but now with reliable recovery and a useful abitily it can be a really useful threat in the meta of RarelyUsed. Unfortunately, Audino-Mega just seems harder to use against some top threats.

It can't OHKO Tyrantrum and get 2HKOed by Scarf set with Head Smash, but can 2HKO it with an uninvested Dazzling Gleam.
About Mega Steelix, well, only can 2HKO if with Fire Blast Max SpA and Soft-Boiled doesn't work to avoid a 2HKO.
And Virizion, a Max SpA Dazzling Gleam Audino deals max 41% in +1 SpD Virizion, Virizion Calm Mind can 2HKO it with Giga Drain (98.4%) if +2 or OHKO it if with Focus Blast if +3 (87.5%)
But anyway, seems better than somethings

+ Tail Glow: Doesn't seems so good, its Speed Tie don't look really good, but it really trouble it : Simipour is faster and have a higher SpA, a +2 SpA Simipour LO is stronger than a +3 Phione. Be outspeeded by Virizion and Delphox isn't good, but be outspeeded by Venusaur and Rotom-C seems worse.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Simipour Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Virizion: 338-398 (104.6 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+3 252 SpA Phione Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Virizion: 284-336 (87.9 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
Phione is bulkier, but almost never it is really useful to avoid OHKO/2HKO in both sides Physically and Defensively with super effective hits
252+ SpA Eelektross Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Phione: 260-308 (86.3 - 102.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Amoonguss Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Phione: 170-204 (56.4 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Amoonguss Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Simipour: 206-246 (70.5 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Is a really interessting competition, but the problem is : Simipour isn't ever viable in RU with a good speed tier, Nasty Plot, interessting coverage and good SpA, probably due to Floatzel's competition, I don't know what could do Phione really good, couting its not so bad bulky against many bulky Water-types in the tier (Blastoise, Jellicent) and, beside its ability to sweep against Floatzel and Simipour, it ability to deal many damage being slower, usually is worse than Slowking, who can avoid a Life Orb Jolteon / Manectric's Thunderbolt with full HP (and thanks to Regenerator) and OHKO them with Psyshock. Seems an option, but not so good like Manaphy is in OU, so I don't know...
 
On the topic of Phione:

I'd say the addition of Tail Glow helps Phione a lot, allowing it to play as the "Manaphy of RU". A set that immeadiately came to mind was this:

Phione @ Salac Berry
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Ice Beam/Grass Knot
- Substitute

Phione sets up on a lot of defensive pokemon in RU, like Register and Rhyperior, and smashes the rest of the team with ease. I would imgaine a standard Tail Glow set would work well against more defensive teams, while the SubSalac set gives it a fighting chance versus offense as well.

There's also this:

Phione @ Leftovers/Damp Rock
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Grass Knot
- Rain Dance

Good-bye stall. This set prevents status, while dishing out very solid damage.

Finally, we have:

Phione @ Leftovers/Wacan Berry
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Acid Armor
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Grass Knot/Ice Beam

Set up on weak attacks, and pummel the opponent. This really ensures victory versus stall.

That's about all I can think of for now.
 

Take Azelfie

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The idea of getting both of these buffs was to aid two sets in particular. First off Wish passer acts very much like Chansey and can be a great boost to stall. Especially since Audino can choose to not Mega evolve and keep Regnerator allowing it to play the role of a two sided coin which is really nice. Soft-Boiled was given to intentionally boost Mega Audino's CM set to combine WishTect into one move slot giving it the option to either run Heal Bell or Flamethrower (of course other coverage moves as well as Thunder Wave) which all have there perks and downsides. Overall this addition gives Stall a really big boost and will probably affect teambuilding (since now you can opt to use this rather Mega Steelix.) Also this is really nice since we fucked up stall with Mismagius so hopefully this will aid in balancing it out :^)
Audino-Mega @ Audinite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Dazzling Gleam
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell / Flamethrower / Thunder Wave

Audino-Mega @ Audinite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Present
- Heal Bell
- Dazzling Gleam

While not a metagame changing buff like Mismagius or Mega Audino this simply gives RU a new Pokemon with a unique trait. This can overwhelm bulkier Pokemon with Rain Dance + Rest + Tail Glow sets which can also serve as a stall breaker to. Another possibility is SubSalac which will be fastest SubSalac user to set up (except for Belly Drum users.) Phione also has a nice role on Sticky Webs being an cool win condition. Overall I think Phione's posistion is mostly gonna be in Semistall teams or Sticky Webs. Overall a cool little change not harming or boosting the meta drastically.
Oh yeah as a note, Phione has better bulk than Simipour and access to Hydration sets letting it have much better longevity.

Also as an announcement, after the next slate this will be playable on a server thanks to Snaquaza so look forward to that.
 
Phione @ Damp Rock
Ability: Hydration
EVS: 252 hp/252 def/4 spd
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 atk
Rain Dance
Rest
Tail Glow
Scald

you can just rest off the damage, then boost until you have enough power to sweep. The 80 speed is not even an issue because the comparable cro-cune set uses suicune, though admittedly that's a lot more bulky than this. Really what would stop this set is the minimal 80-80-80 bulk; a lot of the previous posters' calcs show that a lot of threats can ohko. And with the only passer that can pass cosmic power being smeargle, it doesn't have the bulk to pull it off without a defense booster. I'm not sure if this is proper, but I think adding calm mind to it instead of tail glow would have been far more beneficial so you really would be able to make a cro-cune set from it.
 

fran17

(1999)
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Tail Glow Phione looks fun to use, it can be a really good balance breaker with Tail Glow and 3 atks, although it's kinda weak (Grass Knot at +3 does 58-69 to Mola and it fails to OHKO Jellicent at 100%). 80/80/80 for defensive stats is kinda cool, as it has the 50% to live a Virizion Leaf Blade. Probably the best item for it is a weakness Berry (Rindo/Wacan) so you can just lure faster hitters that give troubles to your team :)
Natural Cure is really cool, now you can use a CM set without the need of rest because you are scared of status, and you can use it as a status absorber. The immediate recovery is also nice because Protect gives a free turn to the opponent, which isn't cool >:(. CM / Soft Boiled / Dazzling Gleam / Surf looks the best set imo, Surf hits Steelix and Fire types, but Flamethrower can be still used over Surf. This will give balance and stall a pretty solid wincondition that can't get crippled by Toxic to an extent.
 

Take Azelfie

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Unfortunately the server hosting RU Theorymon is having some problems so it might take a little bit longer.

New slate!

+ Poison Heal
+ Flower Veil
 

Wandering Wobbuffet

formerly Based Honker
I know spirit will be annoyed at me for this one liner if he sees but why on earth did you pick flower veil?! Seriously Lilligant's abilities are already niche enough being outclassed on sun teams by stuff like victreebel and exeggutor. Meanwhile own tempo petal blizzard is cool and all but that means you can't even switch up moves to your crappy Hidden Power coverage type. Meanwhile flower veil is a completely useless ability in singles doing absolutely nothing.
 

Take Azelfie

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Flower Veil effects yourself to

Flower Veil This side's Grass types can't have stats lowered or status inflicted by other Pokemon.

edit: you never see this work in singles because the only pokemon with access to this ability is the flabebe family which aren't grass-types
 
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Wandering Wobbuffet

formerly Based Honker
Oh I didn't realize that. Either way I honestly don't think it'll do much for lilligant. There's no special version of intimidate which would be annoying for a lilligant attempting to sweep. It's also already immune to sleep powder as it is a grass type. It's a special attacker so burn really doesn't matter. Toxic damage is the only thing that would really be useful to prevent since it'll make lilligant be on a timer.
 
Oh I didn't realize that. Either way I honestly don't think it'll do much for lilligant. There's no special version of intimidate which would be annoying for a lilligant attempting to sweep. It's also already immune to sleep powder as it is a grass type. It's a special attacker so burn really doesn't matter. Toxic damage is the only thing that would really be useful to prevent since it'll make lilligant be on a timer.
Thunder Wave and Sticky Web.
 

Wandering Wobbuffet

formerly Based Honker
Thunder Wave and Sticky Web.
You know what I had forgotten about t wave. Being immune to that is very significant and it somehow slipped my mind. That would provide an alright buff to lilligant since t wave is so common. (Kinda like how opponents will spam t wave/will o wisp despite the fact you have like a heracross or machamp (that hasn't shown d punch yet) even though it's a stupid thing to do. However sticky webs are extremely irrelevant in RU especially with smeargle dropping now so that's not really something significant like paralysis is.
 

Natan

...
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Gastrodon + Poison Heal: Seems really useful due to it ability to take many damage and have reliable recovery, now in 1 turn it can recover 12%, and can use its Toxic Orb + Poison Heal to avoid Toxic / Burn damage or nulify the Leech Seed's one, looks really useful, the only problem is : now it can't check Water-types, but still is better than Storm Drain and seems awesome to turn the slug viable again.
Lilligant + Flower Veil: Most useful than Confusion immunity (Own Tempo), one time it won't bee worried to this, avoid Toxic /Burn when try to sweep is really most useful, I really hate when I lose a sweep with Virizion or anything cuz I stay poisoned / burned, principally with Life Orb, and be immune to Thunder Wave is awesome, otherwise, not so helpful but really good, it can setup on Defensive Fairy types without care about Moonblast, due to its immunity to have SpA dropped.
 

fran17

(1999)
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Poison Heal is something that could make Gastrodon a more viable mon. Actually it can check bulky waters much better because it isn't scared of Toxic anymore (though it should pay attention to Knock Off if the Toxic Orb didn't active yet) and can setup Curse with more ease.
On Lilligant I don't have much to say because I think that Flower Veil isn't that useful because Webs aren't that common in RU and Lilli has a good sinergy with hazard removers anyway, and Thunder Wave isn't used too much and a Lum Berry can still be used to avoid this problem, even if then you lose some power from the LO.
 
Well its not the orb I use on Gastro but okay

Gastro+Poison Heal seems really nice. Curse is definitely brought into the picture, but sadly, its phyisical bulk still sucks. This will definitely boost its viability, though, and make it probably the best M-lix switch-in in the tier, which is always nice.
 
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