Metagame Sketchmons

I also don't play sketchmons that much, but if both teams have to run sticky webs to prepare for opposing sticky webs or its run on almost every team, that seems incredibly over centralising.
You don't have to run Sticky Web. You can run MB/Defog/Spin. Also, a move being common doesn't necessarily mean it's over centralizing.

It would come down to who has the fastest flying types ig or who gets rid of hazards first. But it certainly limits the amount pokes that can be used
Thanks. There was a discussion on Discord that expanded on this and I have been educated as to why Sticky Web should be banned in Sketchmons :).
 

Staraptor @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Mirror Move
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed


Details: Basically, this Staraptor set is meant to be a self-reliant sweeper set. Mirror Move is quite obviously an unviable move in itself, but when it's Z Variation is used, the Pokemon gains a solid +2 attack boost, doubling it's attack stat; Also, Z-Mirror Move not only copies the opposing Pokemon's previous move, but it copies the move with x1.5 power, allowing you to get the attack boost PLUS a potential chunk of damage dealt to the foe. Or, in some cases, retaliating by copying setup moves such as SR in early game to assist in helping Staraptor sweep. Afterwards, the idea is to simply spam whichever move fits the situation best to sweep the opposing team. With a speed stat that rounds to 299 without Jolly, Staraptor's not as fast as it could be, but this still allows it to outspeed quite a few threats that could OHKO it. Brave Bird is Staraptor's most powerful flying STAB move, so this was an obvious pick. Close Combat is a very powerful fighting type move used for coverage against Steel and Rocks types that otherwise wall Staraptor. Extreme Speed is Staraptor's sketched move, which allows it some sort of strategy to be able to continue sweeps even against faster (or scarfed) users. Just like the other two packed moves, with STAB, Extreme Speed gets bumped up to 120 BP, and this, paired along with Staraptor's naturally acceptable attack stat and 100% boost, is enough to potentially blow holes through teams that aren't prepared. For example, although Scarfed Tapu Lele most obviously outspeeds Staraptor and can either seriously damage or OHKO it, Extreme Speed allows Staraptor to outspeed and OHKO before Lele gets the chance to stop it.

Checks and Counters:

Garchomp/Landorus-Therian:
Although Garchomp isn't particularly common, Landorus-Therian most definitely is, and both of these Pokemon can easily take a single attack from Staraptor and follow up with an OHKO from StoneEdge/DiamondStorm.

Glalie-Mega: Since Glalie-Mega's main niche in Sketchmons is to be a sweeper/revenge killer using Ice type Extreme Speed, and most Glalie-Mega's run Jolly, Glalie-Mega in most cases will outspeed and OHKO with a boosted, Ice type Extreme Speed.

Excadrill: At first glance, it may seem like Excadrill isn't really a problem, being easily OHKOd by Close Combat. Although, Extreme Speed is specifically added for this kind of situation; Where a scarf user that outspeeds Staraptor comes in. With Excadrill's adequate defense, above average HP and normal type resistance, Extreme Speed is eaten up by Excadrill and Staraptor is revenge killed by whatever Rock move such Excadrill is using (Probably Stone Edge or Diamond Storm)

Skarmory: Skarmory definitely isn't as much of a hard counter as Lando-T and Garchomp are, but all three of Staraptor's moves are either hitting resisted or neutrally on Skarmory. Close Combat is the most damaging move to Skarmory that Staraptor has, and even then...

+2 252+ Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 154-182 (46.2 - 54.6%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO

Even then, it's only a 2HKO at very best, and in some cases will only be a 3HKO. Over the course of those two to three turns you'll need to take down Skarmory, it will either Whirlwind Staraptor out of the field, or it will end up KOing Staraptor after potential Rocky Helmet damage and the defense drop from CC. Regardless of which one it is, both stop Staraptor in it's tracks and cut the sweep short.

Team Options:

In the event that the sweep does get halted earlier than you were hoping, you'll need a reliable teammate to either switch in to or revenge kill with. Tapu Koko is a decent option; Using Ice Beam/Blizzard as the sketched move, Tapu Koko can come in and OHKO Lando-T, Garchomp, and Skarmory, which are all hard counters to this Staraptor set. Ash-Greninja is another option. Holding menacing offensive stats and a versatile movepool, Ash-Greninja can OHKO Lando-T, Garchomp, Excadrill and Skarmory using Ice Beam and Water Shuriken/Hydro Pump. Unfortunately, Ash-Greninja doesn't really have a reliable answer to Glalie-Mega. If you're situation means that Glalie is posing more of a threat, using regular Greninja with Low Kick is recommended, as Glalie-Mega's immense weight causes Low Kick to rise to 120 BP, excluding the super effective boost.
 

drampa's grandpa

cannonball
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Staraptor @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Mirror Move
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed


Details: Basically, this Staraptor set is meant to be a self-reliant sweeper set. Mirror Move is quite obviously an unviable move in itself, but when it's Z Variation is used, the Pokemon gains a solid +2 attack boost, doubling it's attack stat; Also, Z-Mirror Move not only copies the opposing Pokemon's previous move, but it copies the move with x1.5 power, allowing you to get the attack boost PLUS a potential chunk of damage dealt to the foe. Or, in some cases, retaliating by copying setup moves such as SR in early game to assist in helping Staraptor sweep. Afterwards, the idea is to simply spam whichever move fits the situation best to sweep the opposing team. With a speed stat that rounds to 299 without Jolly, Staraptor's not as fast as it could be, but this still allows it to outspeed quite a few threats that could OHKO it. Brave Bird is Staraptor's most powerful flying STAB move, so this was an obvious pick. Close Combat is a very powerful fighting type move used for coverage against Steel and Rocks types that otherwise wall Staraptor. Extreme Speed is Staraptor's sketched move, which allows it some sort of strategy to be able to continue sweeps even against faster (or scarfed) users. Just like the other two packed moves, with STAB, Extreme Speed gets bumped up to 120 BP, and this, paired along with Staraptor's naturally acceptable attack stat and 100% boost, is enough to potentially blow holes through teams that aren't prepared. For example, although Scarfed Tapu Lele most obviously outspeeds Staraptor and can either seriously damage or OHKO it, Extreme Speed allows Staraptor to outspeed and OHKO before Lele gets the chance to stop it.

Checks and Counters:

Garchomp/Landorus-Therian:
Although Garchomp isn't particularly common, Landorus-Therian most definitely is, and both of these Pokemon can easily take a single attack from Staraptor and follow up with an OHKO from StoneEdge/DiamondStorm.

Glalie-Mega: Since Glalie-Mega's main niche in Sketchmons is to be a sweeper/revenge killer using Ice type Extreme Speed, and most Glalie-Mega's run Jolly, Glalie-Mega in most cases will outspeed and OHKO with a boosted, Ice type Extreme Speed.

Excadrill: At first glance, it may seem like Excadrill isn't really a problem, being easily OHKOd by Close Combat. Although, Extreme Speed is specifically added for this kind of situation; Where a scarf user that outspeeds Staraptor comes in. With Excadrill's adequate defense, above average HP and normal type resistance, Extreme Speed is eaten up by Excadrill and Staraptor is revenge killed by whatever Rock move such Excadrill is using (Probably Stone Edge or Diamond Storm)

Skarmory: Skarmory definitely isn't as much of a hard counter as Lando-T and Garchomp are, but all three of Staraptor's moves are either hitting resisted or neutrally on Skarmory. Close Combat is the most damaging move to Skarmory that Staraptor has, and even then...

+2 252+ Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 154-182 (46.2 - 54.6%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO

Even then, it's only a 2HKO at very best, and in some cases will only be a 3HKO. Over the course of those two to three turns you'll need to take down Skarmory, it will either Whirlwind Staraptor out of the field, or it will end up KOing Staraptor after potential Rocky Helmet damage and the defense drop from CC. Regardless of which one it is, both stop Staraptor in it's tracks and cut the sweep short.

Team Options:

In the event that the sweep does get halted earlier than you were hoping, you'll need a reliable teammate to either switch in to or revenge kill with. Tapu Koko is a decent option; Using Ice Beam/Blizzard as the sketched move, Tapu Koko can come in and OHKO Lando-T, Garchomp, and Skarmory, which are all hard counters to this Staraptor set. Ash-Greninja is another option. Holding menacing offensive stats and a versatile movepool, Ash-Greninja can OHKO Lando-T, Garchomp, Excadrill and Skarmory using Ice Beam and Water Shuriken/Hydro Pump. Unfortunately, Ash-Greninja doesn't really have a reliable answer to Glalie-Mega. If you're situation means that Glalie is posing more of a threat, using regular Greninja with Low Kick is recommended, as Glalie-Mega's immense weight causes Low Kick to rise to 120 BP, excluding the super effective boost.
This set looks awesome. I am 100% going to try this out.

So given that OMPL r1 is over (for me) I thought I'd post a neat core I've been sitting on for a little while. It (did) work in STABmons too (better actually), but now, sadly, does not.

+
+
/


I'm not going to post sets as what these mons run isn't really important, what's important is the way they support each other. Tapu Koko provides Electric Terrain support for Kyurem-B's Fusion Bolt and Magneton/zone's Thunderbolt/Volt Switch. Magnets trap steel types that would otherwise trouble Kyu-b or Koko, such as Ferrothorn or non-Scarf Excadrill, which can be removed by Blue Flare. This core also provides plenty of pivoting to get not just Kyu-b but other mons in safely.

This core is weak to ground types, especially if you don't sketch an Ice STAB on Kyu-B (I ran an Icium-Z Dragon Dance set for instance) so a good partner could be a bulky grass type such as Tangrowth. Other good companions are those that appreciate mons like Skarmory or Celesteela gone, like Diggersby.

Try it out!
 
Heracross @ Heracrossite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Pin Missile
- Rock Blast
- Close Combat

Get this thing at +1, and it is a monster. Its lackluster speed is no more, and it gets a +1 to its godlike Attack stat.
 

Fissure

Cotton Candy Thighs
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Some of the metas like AAA have the common abilities in their VR for each mon so maybe the VR could could have something like that.
This is something that the council has discussed in the past. Like the role compendium, it is about 75% done and has yet to be implemented. I think it would be better to wait until everything is done before we implement it, so expect a major overhaul to this thread next month.
 
I've noticed there haven't been many nominations, so I guess I'll kick things off with a couple of my own:
Firstly I would like to nominate hippowdon. Sand has become a seriously powerful and threatening due to tarrows exca being able to body a lot of teams in sand. As of late ive been experimenting a lot with "sketching" uturn onto weather/terrain setters and by far the most reliable option for me has been uturn hippowdon. Being able to set sand and slow pivot safely into LO exca is very useful and can allow you to get that all important momentum and pressure your opponent. So yeah, I would say anywhere betweeen B to A- rank, leaning towards B+ but of course this is a nom so open to discussion (please discuss something lol).

ok so next nom is mega sceptile. Honestly, with the right matchup this thing is stupid. The move it sketches is electrify which basically allows mscept to body so many stall and balance teams pretty much singlehandedly. It struggles with priority, and the other downside with it is that its unbelievably predictable. Ive used it a bunch, and dont think its A+ rank, but I think A or A- seems about right.

Final nom for this post is not a new mon but an existing one, aka rhyperior: B- ---> B+. Creds to darksylvion and Jrdn for coming up with and using trick room rhyperior, between that set and Megazard's tarrows set on his tr team I have to say rhyperior is quite the scary mon to come up against. I think it definitely deserves the B+ or at least B but if you disagree feel free to say so (once again someone please just say anything lmao).

I was thinking of nomming necrozma too but I think at best its C rank so idk if its worth adding.
 
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The long awaited Sketch resources should (hopefully) be going up shortly, and a VR will be included in that dw.

In the mean time, thought I might post 2 sets for the new megas: swampert and sceptile, and see what all ur thoughts on them are
Swampert:

Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

So I feel like weather is really underused other than sand, as rain and sun dont really have much that really benefits in sketch, while sand gets like tarrows excadrill. However, even tho I am yet to really test it, I thiink this could be a decent mon for a rain team to run tbh. I can see both shoreup, and swords dance being viable, and personally I think the sd set looks especially fun to use.Maybe more bulk on the shore up set would be better, but idrk as again, I havent really tested either out.
I wanted to make a unique HO team, so when I saw this, I made a team.

Klefki @ Damp Rock
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Rain Dance

Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Gunk Shot

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Def / 228 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- U-turn
- Memento
- Defog

Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Spout
- Water Shuriken
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psystrike
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Kabutops @ Rockium Z
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crabhammer
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Jet
- Swords Dance

Klefki is the lead almost every time. It beats any non dark type lead with prankster taunt, and proceeds to stack spikes. Klefki's ev's can be optimized to live special hits as well, but I like the physical defense. Once Klefki can't live any more hits, set up rain, and proceed to one of the wallbreakers/sweepers.

Swampert is one of the hard hitters of the team. Waterfall is the main STAB, but earthquake kills steel types. This set team was pretty much walled by a Mantine, so stone edge was put over ice punch Gunk Shot stops me from getting 6-0'd by cm fini.

Pelliper is the second rain setter on the team. Usually, this thing is sacked just to set rain up, so memento is used just to help ensure a sweep.

Greninja is a beast. This is my favorite part of the team. When there are still a handful of rain turns, and the opponent has nothing with spdef investment, or over 377 speed, Greninja usually finishes the game. As an extreme example, a max spdef Chansey has a decent chance of being 2HKO'ed after one layer of spikes.

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 289-342 (41.1 - 48.6%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes

After all priority users are gone, this thing cleans.

Originally, scarf Latios took this slot, but lele makes so much more sense. It has insane synergy with greninja, because priority is taken care of with lele, and bulkier mons that lele can't break are broken by a specs water spout.

Finally, there is Kabutops. This is the only setup sweeper on the team. Cont crush is saved for walls, while crabhammer/stone edge usually take care of the rest. Generally, when this thing is sent out, it does not switch.
 
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I really like the idea of using rain as it's quite underused so far in sketch but now with mega pert it should be a more viable offense in theory. I think mememto Peliper is pretty cool as it helps pert set up 1-2 sd's pretty safely allowing it to sweep pretty nicely while klefki seems also pretty cool. I think the only thing I might change is latios. The main issue I see for ur team is being able to break through cores with like fini and ferro, so perhaps you could use this set that I've just come up with that is probably terrible but imo worth a shot: manaphy with tail glow, scald, energy ball, and secret sword. Mana benefits from the rain setters and with secret sword paired with tail glow I think it could be quite scary (maybe also give it zmove). Alternatively u could run like scarf xurk with thunder and secret sword. Apologies for this just being a block of text, on mobile so it's a bit of a pain, I'll fix this up tomorrow so it's less painful to read.
 
I really like the idea of using rain as it's quite underused so far in sketch but now with mega pert it should be a more viable offense in theory. I think mememto Peliper is pretty cool as it helps pert set up 1-2 sd's pretty safely allowing it to sweep pretty nicely while klefki seems also pretty cool. I think the only thing I might change is latios. The main issue I see for ur team is being able to break through cores with like fini and ferro, so perhaps you could use this set that I've just come up with that is probably terrible but imo worth a shot: manaphy with tail glow, scald, energy ball, and secret sword. Mana benefits from the rain setters and with secret sword paired with tail glow I think it could be quite scary (maybe also give it zmove). Alternatively u could run like scarf xurk with thunder and secret sword. Apologies for this just being a block of text, on mobile so it's a bit of a pain, I'll fix this up tomorrow so it's less painful to read.
I like the idea of scarf xurk, i'll give it a try. Blue flare never made sense on the team anyways. xP
 
I like the idea of scarf xurk, i'll give it a try. Blue flare never made sense on the team anyways. xP
One more thing, u need to seriously watch out for mega zam tbh, it can trace ss and body you, and it outspeeds ash-gren even without tracing ss, tbh u dot actually have too much of an answer to it other than ig mega pert which can live a hit if it's healthy, or scarf xurk if zam hasn't traced ss. Aside from that it looks pretty good on paper!
 
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Sylveon.

Penny saved is still a fucking penny
Not to nitpick but mega zam outspeeds scarf xurk so that isn't much of a check unfortunately.

Tho most of the changes that racool suggested are quite optimum, but imo double sd is kind of excessive. With a really good sweeper in rockium kabutops, you could always try 4 attacks swampert with something like gunk shot to hit stuff like bulu, and 2hkoing Max def find and Tangrowth, also it is incredibly hard to switch into. Also since you have a damp rock, have you tried spdef AV pelipper with oblivion wing, it helps a ton against stuff like mega zam and gives you a slow pivot too at the same time. This allows you to run a scarfer of your own choice, probly something like lele. Also imo, use dazzling on klefki, so it isn't deadweight against mega sableye leads.
Rain is super hot anyways, so you'll probly win with or without these changes anyways lol. Cool team!!
 
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Not to nitpick but mega zam outspeeds scarf xurk so that isn't much of a check unfortunately.

Tho most of the checks that racool suggested are quite optimum, but imo double sd is kind of excessive. With a really good sweeper in rockium kabutops, you could always try 4 attacks swampert with something like gunk shot to hit stuff like bulu, and 2hkoing Max def find and Tangrowth, also it is incredibly hard to switch into. Also since you have a damp rock, have you tried spdef AV pelipper with oblivion wing, it helps a ton against stuff like mega zam and gives you a slow pivot too at the same time. This allows you to run a scarfer of your own choice, probly something like lele. Also imo, use dazzling on klefki, so it isn't deadweight against mega sableye leads.
Rain is super hot anyways, so you'll probly win with or without these changes anyways lol. Cool team!!
Thank you for the suggestions! I decided to put dazzling gleam over toxic on klefki, and I will give the AV pelipper a shot.
After getting a bit higher on the ladder, people began to preserve their priority users better, so I think i'm going to get rid of xurk for lele. (On a side note, is it better for lele to sketch psystrike, or coverage?)
I personally prefer double sd over a coverage slot, but maybe I should replace Kabutops with a different physical rain abuser. Any ideas?
 
After a lot of testing, I have found that a sack pelipper for the mid game is better than the spdef one that was suggested. This is beacuse klefki is sacked at the very beginning, and usually, 16 turns of rain is enough. Although it was mentioned that alakazam-m reks my team, there is no plausible move that can OHKO Swampert, while Swampert's EQ does.

252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Swampert-Mega: 189-223 (55.4 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Not even is Psychic Terrain, lol.

252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Swampert-Mega in Psychic Terrain: 283-334 (82.9 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
unless it's modest. :(

Besides, I don't think I have battled more than a couple Alakazams, Lele is just better, becuase it frees up a mega slot for the same role.

Swampert was changed from sd to Gunk Shot.

Lele is officially the scarfer of the team.

This team has a lot of trouble against Fero or Fini, depending on the coverage on Swampert. I wondered if there was an simple fix anyone could think of to deal with both, since lele doesn't help with either.
 
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MZ

And now for something completely different
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Rain is always going to be a bit matchup based because Tapu Fini, Tangrowth, Ferrothorn, and Slowbro are all very common and need to be handled slightly differently. Gunk Shot is an idea although I prefer Dragon Ascent since you can definitely muscle past Tapu Fini. In general, you can focus on either fitting another mon that puts a lot of pressure on these kinds of mons (mega manectric fits well on rain and scares all 4 of them despite weaker fire moves), or turning one of your rain sweepers into a dedicated lure (Gunk Swampert, Z-anything kingdra or just specs with a specific coverage move to lure whichever of those 4 you find most problematic, SD Z-Kabu kinda beats all of them if u fit superpower over Aqua Jet). Also I think you're underrating Zam quite a bit, but at the same time random QD mons are so common rn (to the extent anything can be in this metagame) that not only is its niche not as desirable but sash has a lot of merit these days. This is less relevant to the team and more about generally discussing its place in the metagame.

I've also heard a lot about a suspect/QB of quiver dance. Anything we do really needs to wait until we know the permaladder situation, but aside from that I find it premature. Quiver users still generally come in 2 very similar variants (really bulky slow ones like cune and glass cannons that lose to most scarfers unless they manage to get 2 boosts like lele) checked in generally the same ways in a metagame that relies a lot on blanket checks to make up for the inherent surprise of the premise. On paper it could be a lot more dangerous imo, but we haven't seen adaptation sorta due to a lack of activity. I've theorymonned that stuff like QD Mega Manec that bypasses scarfers could be what really breaks it, but for now what we've actually seen doesn't concern me enough. It has much more stable and reasonable counterplay than greninja (my biggest annoyance) and pz (not sure how i feel about it now tbh, ig only use offense lol).
 
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sin(pi)

lucky n bad
So Altarianite, Latiosite, Latiasite, and Ampharosite have been released. MLatios and Mamphy are pretty mediocre (esp the former) but I'd like to talk about the other two.




Latias @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 40 Spa / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Roost
- Stored Power
- Dragon Pulse / Substitute / Thunderbolt / etc

Bulky QD, really effective vs certain offensive builds. EV'd to outspeed and kill Ashninja after rocks, rest in bulk. Tbolt is nice for Skarm/Steela/Fini, Surf is an option to beat Tran but you then sorta lose to Gren (ig you can just set up on it?). Loses pretty hard to Lele so kill that first.
+1 40 SpA Latias-Mega Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Greninja-Ash: 250-295 (87.7 - 103.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock




Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance / Fire Blast
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Roost / Fire Blast

Espeeder, Fire Blast beats Skarm, Eq for Tran (you OHKO spdef at +0). Espeed is very very dangerous, you can skip DD or Roost depending on team and role.

Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Thousand Arrows
- Roost

Standard DD which gets around Skarm, nothing really to say.

Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 12 Spe
Bold/Relaxed Nature
- Roost
- Boomburst
- Heal Bell
- Flamethrower / Earthquake

Speed creeps uninvested Skarm with Relaxed/Adamant Wak with Bold, bulky enough to wall physical LO Koko with rocks up/CB without rocks

252 Atk Life Orb Tapu Koko Bolt Strike vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Altaria-Mega in Electric Terrain: 129-152 (36.5 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Tapu Koko Bolt Strike vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Altaria-Mega in Electric Terrain: 147-174 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 252 HP / 164 SpA / 92 Spe
Modest Nature
- Boomburst / Hyper Voice
- Fire Blast
- Roost
- Earthquake / Earth Power

Special attacker. EVs nicked from gen 6; EQ 2HKOs all tran variants (can't OHKO even 0/0) while Earth Power kills HPtran after rocks with this spread. Walled by Mvenu like the rest of these sets, unless you go with like Dragon Ascent lmao.


All in all I think Altaria will have a larger impact, but don't sleep on Latias! Go out and use them on your teams!
srsly pls, ladder is so dead x.x
 
OK, I have found probs one of the most disgusting things in the meta.



Kartana @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Defog

I always wanted to do this in OU with Jirachi, but never worked out, because of the underwhelming starting attack. This monster already has amazing attack at the beginning, and with a kill boost plus a mm boost, this can OHKO walls. This set has a snowball effect that is magnified with meteor mash. Getting this in against a slower glass cannon allows you to effectively sweep once certain walls are weakened.

This thing has two major things against it:
  • 90% accuracy means that if you miss against a special attacker, you lose Kartana.
  • Can't really break past certain walls such as celesteela before a bunch of boosts
With a team that can weaken its counters, Kartana can become a huge threat.
I agree with sin(pi), very dead. :(
 

Sylveon.

Penny saved is still a fucking penny
Ngl, Scarf Kartana is probly one of my favourite sketch sets tbh, though I don't think it does need a steel STAB on a scarf set, since steel doesn't offer that much coverage outside of what Leaf Blade already does.
So some of the moves I personally use are :
1. Diamond Storm - Probly the best coverage, allows you to hit alola wak, general fire types, revenge +1 volcarona, hit flying types(really important). :: Yeah still doesn't get you to hit Cele super effectively, but if you get that +1 boost you do 2hko it, assuming it doesn't have flamethrower. - Also doesn't make contact so avoids random beak blast.
So, coming to Cele :
2. Any fire type move : Sacred Fire or Fire Lash : Kart loves fire coverage and while Sacred apparently burns, Fire Lash puts switch-ins to -1 def, basically making it psuedo STAB. But it is probly better with SD sets. Also hits Buzzwole harder with it being at -1 incase it switches in.
3. Thousand Arrows : Works in similar ways nullifying certain switch-ins like skarm, cele, zapdos, zard(lol).
4. Or if you somehow do want a steel STAB : Just use Sunsteel Strike, no point using a weaker attack for 10% chance of attack boost.
 
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Although I am reluctant to say it, you're probably right that mm is not as good as any of those options. mm just looks so cool on paper, but probably not as good in practice.
 

drampa's grandpa

cannonball
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I'm going to be a little controversial in this post... I think that Porygon-Z is banworthy.

...did I say that's controversial haha I joke.


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Running three very solid main sets in Scarf, Specs, and Z-Conversion, alongside other, less-seen sets like Double Dance, Porygon-Z can tear up almost everything in the meta with Adaptability boosted, drawbackless, STAB Boomburst off of 135 spa.

With Specs sets the damage speaks for itself
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 212-250 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 298-352 (42.3 - 50%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

It can 2hko HP invested Chansey after rocks (and has like a .4% chance without lol) without even going Modest. It gets enough coverage to pick off just about any of its would be counters.

Scarf sets still hit absurdly hard, but go town against offense rather than stall. Offense has no real switchins to PZ, and its neither frail nor slow enough to easily revenge for many teams.

252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Landorus-Therian: 366-432 (95.8 - 113%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 328-388 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-Black: 342-404 (87.4 - 103.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Set up Porygon-Z, focusing on Z conversion because I haven't really seen Double Dance / just one of Nasty Plot or Agility, allows you to not only greatly increase your bulk making you difficult to revenge kill but increase your power and speed to the levels mentioned above, without being locked into a move, in one turn. I haven't used this set as much so I invite others who have to discuss it.

Basically PZ with Adaptability Boomburst is too strong for the tier. opaf plz ban.

Other mons I think might banworthy, but I'm not as sure of:
Tapu Lele
Serperior
Drampa
 
I think you are forgetting that if P-Z's sets are combined, they can defeat the entire meta, but P-Z cannot be every set. For example, specs, (the most common in my experience) gets destroyed by every scarfer that can deal damage. Scarfed gets destroyed by any bulkier mons, probably steel types are the best. Setup, while it in theory is godly, the one turn it needs to set up can greatly hinder it when it can be used. Also, fighting stab scarf gren destroys all P-Z's, priority destroys them (after some chip), magrearna should beat them in theory with AAP, etc.

Also, Serperior is nowhere near busted, because of similar reasons above. So many prominent threats in the meta outspeed, and OHKO it, and if not, priority, (after some chip) does too.

Lele can be dealt with, but can be a bit harder. as said before, many threats outspeed a non scarf lele, and while setup can be a bit more difficult, a steel type tanks HP fire, and can usually kill with a steel move.

Note that I didn't bother to do calcs, so feel free to prove me wrong.


I feel that in this meta, anti setup is the most important thing. Specifically, anti speed and anti priority after boosts. My rain team has both swift swim users, and lele to deal with these, but teams without answers are bound to get destroyed by setup spam. Something as simple as protean scarf gren can usually keep people safe from speed, but lele is honestly one of the only viable priority checks.
 

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