Metagame SM RU - RU Alpha Discussion - Month 2

What are you looking forward to in Sun/Moon?


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6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
Draining Kiss is a priority move thanks to Triage, which looks like is the whole idea of the set. I know specs priority to revenge stuff like haxorus and hawlucha is cool, but aside from that and mono fairy typing, Specs Gardevoir would be an outright better option.

Since I'm talking to ya here, why do you find Parting Shot suspect worthy? I don't see how the word 'dishonest' conveys much. Oh, and you can still taunt Alolan Persian, it's just that prankster priority does not occur
In regards to Comfey - other then the Dragons and Frail fighting types given in his thread, I don't see Draining Kiss being used for much else (other then Sustain and the fact that +3 healing is amazing), unless it's a purely supportive set like so:

comfey.gif


Comfey @ Big Root
Ability: Triage
EVs: 248 HP / 156 Def / 8 SpA / 96 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aromatherapy
- Leech Seed
- Synthesis
- Draining Kiss

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...r-victini-banned.3591786/page-15#post-7205906 made a detailed post here.

As for Parting Shot... let's think about this for a second. You have a move that can screw over many attackers in the tier (Pangoro / Tyrantrum / Nidoking / Crawdaunt / Escavilier... that kind of thing), on top of Initiative (remember how Uturn/Volt Switch are really good moves?) - and as I said, if that is into setup / a wincon that what you just PSed can scare out - you gain a CRAP load of momentum for just that. In the case of Per-A... can you think of ANYTHING in RU that has 115+ base speed and can run a viable Taunt? I sure as hell can't! (other than opposing Per-A, but whatever) And I know we didn't ban Parting Shot last gen, but that's only because Pangoro wasn't really viable with it. Fast users of it like Per-A didn't exist, of course.
 

MrAldo

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I dont see specs comfey as a worthy option. Comfey has a great amount of support moves options (leech seed, taunt, synthesis, calm mind to name some) that not using them makes offensive sets lackluster. Is one of those Pokemon that have much more to contribute to a team through utility rather than attempting to be powerful.
 

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
I dont see specs comfey as a worthy option. Comfey has a great amount of support moves options (leech seed, taunt, synthesis, calm mind to name some) that not using them makes offensive sets lackluster. Is one of those Pokemon that have much more to contribute to a team through utility rather than attempting to be powerful.
My point in it's essence. That being said, you can't fault the guy for trying to be different - can we? Might be able to throw off a few people expecting setup, and find something there!
 
If Per-A does take off with Sets like these, I can see Parting Shot getting suspected, as it's... dishonest, to say the least (and don't say Taunt, because it's a Dark type...).

With that - thoughts?
While Parting Shot itself is good, the mons that get it are very average. The problem I always find with Alolan Persian is it just doesn't do enough, even using Parting Shot it's not often like you can just go straight to a sweeper as whatever is coming in still has to take a hit. It's also extremely easy to wear down with no recovery and affected by all hazards.


Here's a cool idea for a set

Comfey @ Choice Specs
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power [Ground] / Hidden Power [Fighting]
- U-turn

The idea of the set is to have a strong fairy-type priority move to rk some strong threats, like crawdaunt, hawlucha, heracross, honchkrow, and weakened frail offensive mons. The main problem is that comfey has a horrible movepool. Hidden Power is your best form of coverage, so carry mons to deal with poison, fire and steel types. This is probably not as good as the calm mind set, but for teams that want more immediate power, and a way to easily rk fairy-weak and frail mons, this set might be worth a try. Though, it isn't that powerful so it has a hard time rking anything not fairy-weak
If you are going to run this I think you might as well just run Calm Mind, Draining Kiss, Psychic, Hidden Power Fire to lure in and beat Comfey's usual checks. Comfey lures in poison and steel types like nothing, and opponents won't see it coming either when they switch in on a Calm Mind.
 
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I want to talk about a set that I have been using recently and that I feel like deserves some attention


Vikavolt @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes / No / Maybe
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Thunderbolt
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power [Ice] / [Fire] / Volt Switch / Energy Ball / Air Slash / Flash Cannon (not that it really needs any of those desperately - I personally prefer HP Ice)

So Vikavolt is something that I have wanted to use ever since I saw it revealed in 2016. I just think it looks really cool and it's by far my favourite local bug so far.
The Vikavolts I have seen on ladder so far have mostly been offensive variants, which I don't think are too great at the moment. I have been toying around with a physically defensive, modest set and have used it with decent success. The typing and ability of Vikavolt make it for a really decent physical sponge, and a modest nature still puts it at Timid Espeon levels of SpA, which is nothing to scoff at.
What I like most about this set is that unlike a lot of other defensive mons at the moment, it isn't a complete momentum drain, especially if you chose to forego some coverage for Volt Switch (I really wish it learned U-Turn). It feels super strong to me, especially in a meta that is a) extremely offensively focussed to begin with and b) filled with strong, physical birds like Hawlucha, Talonflame and Honchkrow, all of which fail to really touch Vikavolt (if you keep rocks off the field, Adamant Talonflame fails to OHKO it with Flare Blitz). It has a lot of decent choices in the last moveslot it may run and generally just feels like a very solid mon right now. Items can be switched on preference, I like going for Life Orb to pack an extra punch, and while I haven't tested Leftovers yet, it seems like it would work decently, too. Has anyone toyed with this or similar sets?

Another question I have for you guys: what nature do you run on DD Haxorus at the moment? I have been using Jolly over Adamant lately because of all the scarf Darmanitans I have been encountering, and it still puts out ridiculous amounts of damage without having to worry about getting revenge killed by that big red blob of anger after a single DD.
 

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
While Parting Shot itself is good, the mons that get it are very average. The problem I always find with Alolan Persian is it just doesn't do enough, even using Parting Shot it's not often like you can just go straight to a sweeper as whatever is coming in still has to take a hit. It's also extremely easy to wear down with no recovery and affected by all hazards.
I'm not saying you're wrong - but I think we're all acting as if things can only be 'scared out' offensively. If Persian-A can find some way to scare things out defensively (see the Scarf Switcheroo/Toxic set I posted), that's when things get scary and Per-A becomes deadly. Not much would appreciate being crippled by either, no?
 
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rualpha-535277924
Hawlucha @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- High Jump Kick
- Acrobatics
I feel like a lot of people are sleeping on this threat and I would have to say that more people should give this pokemon a try. Definitely a nice set up sweeper that can put in work late game. Hawlucha definitely has trouble with the vast amount of priority users in the tier, as well as, random rocky helmet mons but, with the right lures or solid predictions, Hawlucha is either punching holes or sweeping. If the opposing team is weakened and you can threaten a mon out with Hawlucha, then you can just set up a free sub without swords dancing up so that way you can keep your sub for opposing priority hits. I'm actually quite curious about bulkier sets it might be able to run so, if anyone has any suggestions on that then I'm all for trying them out. Having a strong flying STAB is also solid without relying on Brave Bird with it's recoil or Hurricane with it's missing (or relying on Flyinium Z to avoid the miss).
 
I want to talk about a set that I have been using recently and that I feel like deserves some attention


Vikavolt @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes / No / Maybe
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Thunderbolt
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power [Ice] / [Fire] / Volt Switch / Energy Ball / Air Slash / Flash Cannon (not that it really needs any of those desperately - I personally prefer HP Ice)

So Vikavolt is something that I have wanted to use ever since I saw it revealed in 2016. I just think it looks really cool and it's by far my favourite local bug so far.
The Vikavolts I have seen on ladder so far have mostly been offensive variants, which I don't think are too great at the moment. I have been toying around with a physically defensive, modest set and have used it with decent success. The typing and ability of Vikavolt make it for a really decent physical sponge, and a modest nature still puts it at Timid Espeon levels of SpA, which is nothing to scoff at.
What I like most about this set is that unlike a lot of other defensive mons at the moment, it isn't a complete momentum drain, especially if you chose to forego some coverage for Volt Switch (I really wish it learned U-Turn). It feels super strong to me, especially in a meta that is a) extremely offensively focussed to begin with and b) filled with strong, physical birds like Hawlucha, Talonflame and Honchkrow, all of which fail to really touch Vikavolt (if you keep rocks off the field, Adamant Talonflame fails to OHKO it with Flare Blitz). It has a lot of decent choices in the last moveslot it may run and generally just feels like a very solid mon right now. Items can be switched on preference, I like going for Life Orb to pack an extra punch, and while I haven't tested Leftovers yet, it seems like it would work decently, too. Has anyone toyed with this or similar sets?

Another question I have for you guys: what nature do you run on DD Haxorus at the moment? I have been using Jolly over Adamant lately because of all the scarf Darmanitans I have been encountering, and it still puts out ridiculous amounts of damage without having to worry about getting revenge killed by that big red blob of anger after a single DD.
I find this Vikavolt set a little weird. It requires massive support for a mon that isn't even that bulky. I'm not sure Vikavolt is really that good, but it does have 1 niche. Combined with a pursuit user it pretty much 6-0's all the stall teams going around the ladder. Though that ties in with my point I said days ago how there are a few things that do beat stall, it's just they're mostly bad vs everything else.

Definitely run jolly on Haxorus. You outspeed Scarf Darmanitan, Heracross etc. at +1. And you outspeed a lot of major threats unboosted which you won't if adamant.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rualpha-535277924
Hawlucha @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- High Jump Kick
- Acrobatics
I feel like a lot of people are sleeping on this threat and I would have to say that more people should give this pokemon a try. Definitely a nice set up sweeper that can put in work late game. Hawlucha definitely has trouble with the vast amount of priority users in the tier, as well as, random rocky helmet mons but, with the right lures or solid predictions, Hawlucha is either punching holes or sweeping. If the opposing team is weakened and you can threaten a mon out with Hawlucha, then you can just set up a free sub without swords dancing up so that way you can keep your sub for opposing priority hits. I'm actually quite curious about bulkier sets it might be able to run so, if anyone has any suggestions on that then I'm all for trying them out. Having a strong flying STAB is also solid without relying on Brave Bird with it's recoil or Hurricane with it's missing (or relying on Flyinium Z to avoid the miss).
That set is everywhere. Btw you want to run 12 HP EV's. It means you can substitute twice to activate the berry. I'm not sure what general opinion is on this, but imo the 50% berries that activate at 25% are superior now too. They leave you with the same HP if you are using substitute but Hawlucha can actually just live a number of hits and the 50% berries leave you with more HP after.
 
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Lord Death Man

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That set is everywhere. Btw you want to run 12 HP EV's. It means you can substitute twice to activate the berry. I'm not sure what general opinion is on this, but imo the 50% berries that activate at 25% are superior now too. They leave you with the same HP if you are using substitute but Hawlucha can actually just live a number of hits and the 50% berries leave you with more HP after.
The 25% berries aren't superior, imo. They make it harder to just click SD when you don't want/need to sub such as versus a scarfer that can't actually OHKO you, while also prevent you from using a tactical switch-in to gain unburden, as rare as that is. You're not using the extra HP for all too much, either, though ultimately the differences between the sets are minimal - Figy or whatever can let you fish for misses, for examples.
 

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
Can I insert a 'the chat died' joke here?
After all, they can't blame you for derailing the thread if it was never going anywhere:

C3ZpGMFWIAAGhNs.jpg


*ahem*

Anyway - here's a slightly unconventional Escavilier set I came up with, for Trick Room teams:

escavalier.gif

Escavalier @ Steelium Z
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Fell Stinger
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Drill Run

This will mostly be as TR cleanup - as you pick something weakened off with Fell Stinger (a move buffed 20>50, and +3 Attack). Now, with with a +3 160 steel nuke at your disposal... we have a bit of fun...
  • +3 252+ Atk Escavalier Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 408-480 (127.8 - 150.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • +3 252+ Atk Escavalier Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Jellicent: 343-404 (85.1 - 100.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • +3 252+ Atk Escavalier Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Seismitoad: 464-546 (112 - 131.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • +3 252+ Atk Escavalier Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 352-415 (102.6 - 120.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • +3 252+ Atk Escavalier Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 322-380 (95.2 - 112.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • +3 252+ Atk Escavalier Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Blastoise: 368-433 (106.6 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • +3 252+ Atk Escavalier Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 258-303 (70.8 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

I could go on tbh. Never mind the fact that things like Magneton trying to bait your Z-move could lead to them getting Drill Run(ed) - or an Alomomola getting it's item knocked off (which it NEVER appreciates having lefties lost). Hell, you might be able to pick off two things with FS and get +6 lol.

Thoughts?
 

Lord Death Man

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Megahorn hits considerably harder than anything else Escavalier can carry. I'd much rather drop Drill Run or Knock Off than Megahorn, because Megahorn is very important to Escavalier functioning as a wallbreaker, especially if I were to somehow get to +3 without being immediately forced out.
 

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
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Even then why not Swords Dance? Escavalier is bulky enough to use it, especially in Trick Room. Fell Stinger requires the variable of the opponent willing to sack a weakened Pokemon to Escavalier, which isn't always the case.

Or just use 4 Attack Escavalier which is the better of the sets IMO...
 
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6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
Even then why not Swords Dance? Escavalier is bulky enough to use it, especially in Trick Room. Fell Stinger requires the variable of the opponent willing to sack a weakened Pokemon to Escavalier, which isn't always the case.

Or just use 4 Attack Escavalier which is the better of the sets IMO...
I don't think SD would be worth burning a turn under Trick Room. After all, this set is cleanup on TR teams what is basically exclusively.

Also by 4 attacks, do you mean Banded? You end up with less power AND flexibility then even that.

On another note - here's a set I theorycrafted for Rhyperior, that might be used to bait fat Grass types:

rhyperior.gif


Rhyperior @ Buginium Z
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Megahorn
- Stealth Rock

The two main grasses I see being bated out are Exeggutor-A; Ludicolo and Rotom-Mow, as well as doing a lot to Virision and a chunk to Chesnaught, both expecting one of your STAB(s). Calcs for the latter two:

  • 252+ Atk Rhyperior Savage Spin-Out (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Virizion: 314-370 (97.2 - 114.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • 252+ Atk Rhyperior Savage Spin-Out (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 151-178 (39.7 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

However, even with Solid Rock, GD from the likes of Colo' and others still slaughter you, so Megahorn / Z-Megahorn are for the prediction only.

Rest of the set should speak for itself.
 
I don't think SD would be worth burning a turn under Trick Room. After all, this set is cleanup on TR teams what is basically exclusively.

Also by 4 attacks, do you mean Banded? You end up with less power AND flexibility then even that.

On another note - here's a set I theorycrafted for Rhyperior, that might be used to bait fat Grass types:

View attachment 78478

Rhyperior @ Buginium Z
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Megahorn
- Stealth Rock

The two main grasses I see being bated out are Exeggutor-A; Ludicolo and Rotom-Mow, as well as doing a lot to Virision and a chunk to Chesnaught, both expecting one of your STAB(s). Calcs for the latter two:

  • 252+ Atk Rhyperior Savage Spin-Out (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Virizion: 314-370 (97.2 - 114.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • 252+ Atk Rhyperior Savage Spin-Out (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 151-178 (39.7 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

However, even with Solid Rock, GD from the likes of Colo' and others still slaughter you, so Megahorn / Z-Megahorn are for the prediction only.

Rest of the set should speak for itself.
If you need a Z-move to 5HKO a Chesnaught (You can only Savage Spin-out once), is it even worth it? I'd rather run my Z-move on something like Venomoth, where the extra power makes a world of difference.
 

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
If you need a Z-move to 5HKO a Chesnaught (You can only Savage Spin-out once), is it even worth it? I'd rather run my Z-move on something like Venomoth, where the extra power makes a world of difference.
SSO has more functions then just chunking Ches' a bit. Like I said, you invite in fat grass types, and nuke them.
I admit this set would have been better if Celebi was still destroying the tier tho.
Might add some calcs for neutral MUs at some point too (things like bulky Water/Ground types)
 
I don't think SD would be worth burning a turn under Trick Room. After all, this set is cleanup on TR teams what is basically exclusively.

Also by 4 attacks, do you mean Banded? You end up with less power AND flexibility then even that.

On another note - here's a set I theorycrafted for Rhyperior, that might be used to bait fat Grass types:

View attachment 78478

Rhyperior @ Buginium Z
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Megahorn
- Stealth Rock

The two main grasses I see being bated out are Exeggutor-A; Ludicolo and Rotom-Mow, as well as doing a lot to Virision and a chunk to Chesnaught, both expecting one of your STAB(s). Calcs for the latter two:

  • 252+ Atk Rhyperior Savage Spin-Out (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Virizion: 314-370 (97.2 - 114.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • 252+ Atk Rhyperior Savage Spin-Out (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 151-178 (39.7 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

However, even with Solid Rock, GD from the likes of Colo' and others still slaughter you, so Megahorn / Z-Megahorn are for the prediction only.

Rest of the set should speak for itself.
I don't think you've any idea of the "power" of something as strong as Choice Band Escavalier has over wasting a turn using a weak 50 BP move. Swords Dance would also be a great option vs fatter teams as those usually manage to pivot around TR teams long enough to stall them out.

Just like Miyami said, while Megahorn is cool to snap stuff like Virizion and Cresselia, using Rhyp as your Z-move user seems so wasteful, when your Z-move could be taken advantage of much better by a sweeper. I think stuff like Toxic and Ice Punch stand as better options for Rhyperior, currently.

Also, do you actually test your sets aside from just theorycraftin?

e: man, you could just use standard Megahorn with Lefties instead of wastin a Z slot
 
SSO has more functions then just chunking Ches' a bit. Like I said, you invite in fat grass types, and nuke them.
I admit this set would have been better if Celebi was still destroying the tier tho.
Might add some calcs for neutral MUs at some point too (things like bulky Water/Ground types)
You missed my point. Here's a list of some the good things you could use a Z-move on:

- Z Heal Bell Diancie
- Z Brave Bird/Mirror Move Honchkrow
- Z Hypnosis Ninetales
- Z Brave Bird + SD Talonflame
- Z Bug Buzz + QD Venomoth
- Z Memento Pyukumuku/Whimsicott
- Z Celebrate Venusaur
- Z Solar Beam Houndoom


The opportunity cost of using Z-Megahorn Rocks Rhyperior (Something that barely functions at best) is massive. In any situation, using one of these would be strictly better.

(That's not even factoring in most of what you'd want to hit with SSO gets 2HKO'ed by Megahorn anyways, thus rendering your set useless)
 

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
I don't think you've any idea of the "power" of something as strong as Choice Band Escavalier has over wasting a turn using a weak 50 BP move. Swords Dance would also be a great option vs fatter teams as those usually manage to pivot around TR teams long enough to stall them out.

Just like Miyami said, while Megahorn is cool to snap stuff like Virizion and Cresselia, using Rhyp as your Z-move user seems so wasteful, when your Z-move could be taken advantage of much better by a sweeper. I think stuff like Toxic and Ice Punch stand as better options for Rhyperior, currently.

Also, do you actually test your sets aside from just theorycraftin?

e: man, you could just use standard Megahorn with Lefties instead of wastin a Z slot
I think you're forgetting that Esc' has 5 other teammates to support it with, and any number of them (2 should do) could be used for assassinating fatter cores and/or their supports.

Also, I think that kind of use of Z moves is mostly a surprise thing (like how most, if not all, Z-moves should be used)* - and sets like it have been influenced by things like Firium Z Garchomp / MagDoom Heatran up in OU. I do admit that Rock/Ground is far from a discreet typing to smuggle coverage onto, but it's still worth a shot. With that, Miyami~~ may I ask why you bought up the example of Venomoth in relation to Z-moves? Assistance in QD sweeping, I'm guessing?

Finally, I do confess to theorycrafting a lot of these sets - and I would like to try them out on the field with actual teams at some point (my teambuilding mentality is slightly unconventional). It's all in the name of adding food for thought, and I mean no harm in doing so.

*I think of Z-moves as similar to Smash 4 Cloud, and his limit break. Initially a lot of Cloud players would be needlessly trigger happy, and burn Limit early on (say) Blade Beam at 60% a piece for the sake of a bit of percent (whereas autocancel Dair to Finishing Touch was, and still is, a thing at said percent range - for the kill). Post-nerf, however - people learned to keep limit longer and Cross-Slash kills at 75%+. For those who play Sm4sh - I think you'll see what I'm saying (Fun Fact: I am actually a Shulk main).

You missed my point. Here's a list of some the good things you could use a Z-move on:

- Z Heal Bell Diancie
- Z Brave Bird/Mirror Move Honchkrow
- Z Hypnosis Ninetales
- Z Brave Bird + SD Talonflame
- Z Bug Buzz + QD Venomoth
- Z Memento Pyukumuku/Whimsicott
- Z Celebrate Venusaur
- Z Solar Beam Houndoom


The opportunity cost of using Z-Megahorn Rocks Rhyperior (Something that barely functions at best) is massive. In any situation, using one of these would be strictly better.

(That's not even factoring in most of what you'd want to hit with SSO gets 2HKO'ed by Megahorn anyways, thus rendering your set useless)
and those alternatives you think have synergy with Rhyperior?

The last sentence in brackets, you DO have a fair point.

EDIT: Counter argument:

Whilst things I'm thinking to hit with SSO DO get 2HKOed by Megahorn - it's shaky 85% accuracy is not something I want to be gambling with when trying to read something coming in if I can help it (especially things that don't immediately die to Megahorn, see Slowbro / Cersselia etc.).

I also think that the majority of your 'alternate' options may also move up post-alpha (Venomoth, your biggest example, I think is the most likely to go). And others after that could give this thing room to grow as well.

Stealth Rocks is also completely optional on this set, and if you want to suggest a 4th move (Toxic/SD/Ice Punch/Superpower etc.) to make it better: fire away, I'd love to hear it!
 
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Okay so I wanted to talk about a serious set like Offensive CM Waterium-Z Suicune, but finally I went for a gimmick one.

Charizard @ Firium Z
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Sunny Day
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Dragon Pulse / Roost

Yeah I used that and I had a lot of fun with. Z-Sunny Day boost Charizard's Speed and make it a fast cleaner/wallbreaker/monster/demon. Now you have a fast Zard with a ridiculousely powerfull Fire STAB.
Calcs are better than words to explain how powerfull this thing is.
252 SpA Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Porygon2 in Sun: 178-211 (47.5 - 56.4%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia in Sun: 286-337 (64.8 - 76.4%)
252 SpA Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus in Sun: 409-483 (96.4 - 113.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Haxorus in Sun: 237-279 (80.8 - 95.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon in Sun: 214-253 (54.3 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan in Sun: 286-337 (81.4 - 96%)

Solar Beam is just here to punish Waters and Rocks like Suicune, Blastoise, Rhyperior, Feraligatr, Alomomola and others. The last slot is a filler. Dragon Pulse can be used for hitting Dragons like Haxorus. Otherwise, Roost is the best option.
 
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Alright it has been awhile since the last time someone posted a team here and I've seen alot of new players who came to the RU chat and asked for a sample team to ladder with and learn the tier or learn to play entirely. So thats mostly why I'm posting this team here and now (yes we will be in RU beta in a week or so, but better late than never right...).


I build this (fairly simple fwg-core) team in the first week when the "first" usage stats came out. Gigalith dropped, Celebi left which caused me to see potential with a LO 3 attacks shaymin set. Added CM Roar-cune to have a red-button for a +1 Haxorus or Curselax and to have it as a stupid secundary win-condition. Entei is basically one of my favourite wallbreakers who still has a ridiculous strong priority attack to make it also function as a decent revenge killer against scarfers that are faster than heracross (Scarf darmanitan or a +1 haxorus for example). Scarf Moxie Heracross is basically the main win-condition of the team. I still needed a Stealth Rocker and Hazard remover. Since gigalith dropped and spikes were still fairly common (and for a reason!) and I didnt wanted to stack up ground types I chose for a physdef gligar set and spdef Gigalith core. These mons have some good synergy with each other.

I have laddered with it quite abit, not exstensively but enough to know the team works.

So to sum up "how to work with the team" in a few sentences:
Wallbreak with Shaymin and Entei to the point either CM suicune or Scarf Moxie Heracross can sweep while falling to the defensive backbone of Gligar + Gigalith if needed.

Some mons had some speedcreep ev's but I'd rather keep them to myself ;)

Shaymin @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Seed Flare
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Psychic

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Roar
- Calm Mind
- Scald

Entei @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Flare Blitz
- Stone Edge
- Extreme Speed

Heracross @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off

Gligar @ Eviolite
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- U-turn
- Earthquake

Gigalith @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Toxic
.
 
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Ok so I had a much larger intro but you know Wall said everything that my 7 line paragraph said in 3 so well played :P .

The Team:


Building Process

Essentially I started with Rotom-C (1) since I have been enjoying using it quite a lot lately as an amazing pivot and decent breaker. So my mind went to what recipients would enjoy the "free switch" and I went with specs Kyurem (2). R-C baits in the bulky grasses that Kyurem can just click Ice beam against and can deal with the bulky waters that Kyurem may find difficult to break through. I then went with scarf Darmanitan (3*) To help me breakthrough bulky steels, provide u-turn, and a generally fast hard hitting mon. However, as you will see later with the team, my team struggled with breaking past bulky waters and so I replaced it with Scarf Guts Heracross (3). It helps with breaking through what I needed darm to breakthrough with the added bonus of a better matchup against bulkier waters. The downsides being no momentum grabbing move and a lower speed. I then wanted both removal and hazards and the best fit, I felt, would not be Donphan but rather Gligar (4). This is a mon that I was extremely conflicted about. In the coming days I will go into more detail about hazard removal but the main role of gligar is to cover a portion of the metagame in tandem with the mon I was already considering pairing it up with(Also defog.) So the partner in mind was Alomamola (5). It covers both of Gligars' weaknesses very well along with providing wish support which is pivotal for this team. Simply put(As I will go into more detail later), Hazards and the amount of pressure provided by the offensive threats are covered somewhat by Mola's pivoting capabilities with wish. Now originally I had Diancie(6*) Since it gave me a nice typing for the team and rocks. However I decided Escavaliers(6) qualities were best suited for the team, forcing me to put rocks on gligar though. It gives me much needed resists with a moveset that I love in this meta.

0 Atk Gligar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Haxorus: 93-111 (31.7 - 37.8%) -- 91.3% chance to 3HKO

+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 252-297 (73.4 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 SpA Tinted Lens Venomoth Savage Spin-Out (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 212-252 (61.8 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 109-129 (32.7 - 38.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 120 HP / 136+ Def Alomomola: 408-482 (81.4 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Goodra: 312-368 (83.4 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Crawdaunt - If it is in against your choice locked mons which you do not want it in against or Gligar, use Mola as an initial switch and proceed to status it. If it is not LO, it cannot KO you at +2 as the calc shows, so toxic again if it is Lum Berry. If it is LO use Rotom-C or even Kyurem to revenge kill.

Haxorous-
With this it is a similar case to daunt. Use either Gligar or Mola as the initial switch and scout whether its item and act accordingly.

Tyrantrum-
I have no switch in to band but it is outspead and KO'd by all my offense and scarf is more easily pivoted into.

Shaky Matchup vs Stall :( - I guess you have trick on Rotom and Guts Heracross but you know stall...

Shaymin - Is very hard to pivot into because its shaymin but escav is usually a fine pivot and it can be revenged.

Suicune-
I haven't come against many but on paper it looks scary!

Yanmega-
Same with suicune, haven't seen too many so let me know how it goes ;) .

Heracross-
Scarf is annoying since I have to Always pivot into Gligar and Guts Flame orb and leftovers are annoying for obvious reasons.

Goodra-
Its coverage is too much so use gligar to pivot into Choiced sets and is annoying since it forces Kyurem to Draco to KO.


https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rualpha-536350447 - Weakened the team to the point where I could just click Ice Beam with Kyurem

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rualpha-536355226 - Showcases matchup vs a bulkier team and the plays required

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rualpha-536785617 - A match against a Goodra, Venemoth, and Crawdaunt


Playstyle

Try to pivot into kyurem as much as possible in order to break down the opposing team for the defensive backbone to function well and for Heracross to have an easier time cleaning. Do not be afraid to pull doubles and play a little recklessly since you have Mola to keep the team functioning with wish. Make sure to be more conservative if hazards are up however. Use Escav to eliminate and weaken key threats with its moveset. Mola can somewhat be a "wincon" so try to avoid it being staused while also considering the fact heracross isn't your only wincon. Do not be overwhelmed by volt-turn and offensive fires by picking the appropriate pivot which is the lesser important mon in that match.

Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Earth Power

Heracross (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Facade

Rotom-Mow @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Leaf Storm
- Trick

Gligar (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 30 Spe
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Defog
- Roost

Alomomola (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 120 HP / 136 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic

Escavalier (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Iron Head
- Pursuit
- Knock Off


So yeah I hope you enjoy the team and any feedback is appreciated.
 
Well, the end of the month is closing in fast so I may as well join in the fun of posting teams, because I sure had fun playing with this one.

The Sand Squad


This is a hyper offensive sand team. Your goal is to sufficiently weaken the opposing team so that Stoutland can come in and clean up, usually by clicking Return until everything on the opposing team is KO'd. The rest of this team is designed to wear down potential checks and counters to Stoutland and pave the way for its eventual clean-up.

Replays
vs Trick Room
Gigalith is just there to set sand


Gigalith @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 144 Atk / 116 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Toxic
- Explosion

Gigalith serves as the obligatory sand setter. It's absolutely critical for Stoutland and Dugtrio to function effectively, so keeping it healthy is paramount. Stone Edge is a hard-hitting attack that puts its impressive offenses to good use, Stealth Rock and Toxic provide useful support for the team. The most clutch move on this set is Explosion, allowing you to safely pivot into a cleaner (usually Stoutland) in the end-game. This particular spread avoids OHKO from Specs Kyurem Focus Blast after rocks.

Also, never lead with Gigalith. It just gets counter-lead, and half the team functions just fine without sand up anyways.


Stoutland @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Superpower
- Crunch
- Wild Charge

Stoutland is the team's cleaner of choice. When cleaning I'll pretty much always be spamming Return; the other three moves are there for when Stoutland needs to put in work in the middle of the match. Iron Head is another possible coverage option to better handle Diancie, but after trying different coverage combos I think Superpower/Crunch/Wild Charge edges it out.


Dugtrio-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit

Sand Force bolsters Dugtrio-Alola's mediocre offensive power to exceptional levels. It has a paper-thin defense, however, so bringing it in can be tricky. Use it with the proper care, however, and it will create openings for Stoutland to win... or on occasion just sweep on its own.

Pursuit in the last slot allows Dugtrio to better eliminate threats for Stoutland. Sucker Punch and Aerial Ace are other options. Sucker Punch can be used to revenge or get chip damage on faster threats, while Aerial Ace can be used to beat Chesnaught. However, losing any move on this set is a big sacrifice.


Goodra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Bomb

Goodra is a specially bulky nuke. There's really not much more to say about it. It pairs nicely with Nidoking, as the two often switch into each others' checks. The speed investment allows Goodra to outspeed Jolly Crawdaunt, which is not a pokemon I want to have to play around. If you want to lower its speed investment, don't drop it below 92, since you want Goodra to be able to outspeed Donphan and prevent it from getting a last-ditch spin in.


Nidoking @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

One of the things I found early in testing was that Goodra wasn't cutting it as the team's sole special attacker. It's great, but on its own it's not enough. So I went to one of my favorite gen 6 balance-breakers, Nidoking. I go with the all-out attacking set here. Very little enjoys switching into Nidoking, and he's one of the top picks to bring in on a double.


Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Roar
- Drain Punch
- Wood Hammer

The last member of the team is Chesnaught, and in many ways it's the backbone of the team. The large, spiky backbone of the team. At first glance it looks like a pretty standard spikes setter, but what sets it apart from your standard defensive Chesnaught fare is its 252+ offensive investment. This Chesnaught does not run Synthesis, due to the fact that the move is unreliable under sand. Instead it runs dual STAB to hit as hard as possible. If something like Donphan starts getting all uppity spinning in your face, hit it with a Wood Hammer and make it go away.


Sticky Web The team lacks hazard control, mainly because it isn't very weak to most conventional hazards. Sticky Web, however, is a problem and is difficult to play around. Always lead with Dugtrio-A against webs teams, since Iron Head gives you a 20% chance to deny webs.

Alomomola This thing just doesn't die, but with its wishtect routine it must be removed prior to a Stoutland sweep. To beat it reliably with this team you really need to get two layers of spikes down which puts it into 2HKO range for Dugtrio and Stoutland under sand, but two layers of spikes are easier said than done.

Kyurem This thing is scary. The team has a lot of ice weakness, and Kyurem has a viciously powerful Ice Beam. Not knowing whether it's Scarf or Specs can also be a problem, as Dugtrio can revenge it easily if it's Specs but if its Scarf then Gigalith can check it. When I see this thing at team preview I know I have an uphill match coming.

Fakeout Unburden Hitmonlee It's not a very good set, but it's reasonably common among lower ladder players and can does prevent a Stoutland sweep. Keep Chesnaught healthy to check it.

Honchkrow Is there a such thing as a team that isn't weak to the Murderkrow in the RU Alpha? Very scary pokemon, and if it gets to +2 it's usually over. If you see this cold-blooded killer on the opponent's team, tread very carefully.


Gigalith @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 144 Atk / 116 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Toxic
- Explosion

Stoutland @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Crunch
- Wild Charge
- Superpower

Dugtrio-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit

Goodra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Sludge Bomb
- Fire Blast

Nidoking @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Roar
- Drain Punch
- Wood Hammer
 

EonX

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Guess I'll join in on the fun too. While I haven't had the time to build as much in month 2 as I did in month 1 of Alpha, I still had a lot of fun with certain Pokemon and one specific team in general:



The idea really came about when I wanted to test out Espeon since it lost a lot of key threats to it with the tier shift at the beginning (well, more like middle) of the month. Losing Mega Absol, Alakazam, Crobat, and the always prevalent Scarf Mienshao were huge helps for Espeon as it lost 3 revenge killers and the one Pokemon that could outperform it in almost every way. I decided to go the Sticky Web route since Espeon is an offensive form of hazard control. As is the case with most Sticky Web teams, you're in deep shit against Flying-types, however nothing on the team lets them in and Jellicent can generally weaken them for Lucario's Extreme Speed.

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed
- Crunch

Lucario is pretty straightforward. It works really well with Haxorus as most teams have a very difficult time dealing with either one of these Pokemon, much less both of them combined. Thanks to Adamant nature + Life Orb, it isn't even always necessary for Lucario to set up to sweep. CC and ESpeed are pretty mandatory for any physical variant of Lucario and it's no different here. As Espeon wants fat Psychic-types out of the way and the team does pretty well against Gligar, Crunch was an easy call for Lucario's last move as it smacks around Slowbro, Doublade, and Reuniclus.

Other Options: Iron Tail is something to note if you're worried about Nidoqueen and still want to hit most Psychics hard. Get walled by Slowbro and Doublade though. Note that it can also smack Fairies for Haxorus.

Haxorus @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab

DD Haxorus is arguably the single most fearsome threat in the tier right now. The gameplan for many teams is to just pressure it with whatever it comes in on. The three move coverage is really all you ever need with Dragonium Z giving you a free STAB nuke the first time you need to use Outrage in a match. EQ is there for Steels and Poison Jab smacks around the Fairies that would otherwise check Haxorus nicely.

Other Options: Swords Dance is something to note over Poison Jab, especially if you're using Iron Tail on Lucario as that increases Haxorus's ability to break fatter teams. Adamant may look good with Sticky Web, but I like Jolly for always outspeeding stuff like Scarf Kyurem and Darmanitan should Webs not be up.

Espeon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock

Choice Specs Espeon is incredibly powerful and something I found that quite a few teams were weak to without realizing it. Psychic is actually the preferred STAB move for its more consistent power and the fact that it will always straight OHKO Haxorus from full with NO HAZARDS. Dazzling Gleam catches Honchkrow as it won't do enough to 2HKO Umbreon unless it has taken damage earlier in the match. Shadow Ball smacks Doublade and Psychic-types hoping to tank Espeon's Psychic moves. Psyshock allows Espeon to deal more damage to Diancie as well as beat Suicune 1v1 should it Calm Mind as Espeon switches in.

Other Options: HP Fire is quite the viable option over Psyshock to OHKO CB Escavalier and 2HKO AV variants. Trick is really only useful for two targets: Umbreon and Porygon2. However, it can lead to letting Lucario freely setting up on them later in the game on a choice locked move.

Nidoking @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock

Nidoking is the Stealth Rock user on this team, and even though I don't like the idea of using Rocks on Nidoking for most team, the extra Speed over Nidoqueen is really nice for Sticky Web teams. Dual STABs is pretty obvious for any Nidoking and Ice Beam is there to prevent Gligar from getting an easy Defog. It's also nice for Haxorus since Nidoking outspeeds it if Sticky Web is up.

Other Options: Fire Blast is something for Bronzong as the team doesn't have an immediate way to OHKO it, but losing Ice Beam would be really difficult.

Galvantula @ Life Orb
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Sticky Web

While it might seem strange to use a Life Orb over Focus Sash on Galvantula, you've probably noticed that the team isn't outright reliant on Sticky Web to perform well, meaning I don't "have" to get it up every game to win. Bug Buzz and Thunder are obvious and HP Ice is there to make sure Gligar doesn't get an easy Defog. It's also nice to hit Nidoqueen and Nidoking for solid damage.

Other Options: Focus Sash is definitely an option if you use Adamant on Haxorus since the team becomes much more reliant on Sticky Web to perform at that point. Energy Ball can bop Rhyperior, but it doesn't seem all that common right now.

Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 176 HP / 128 Def / 204 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Scald
- Recover

Jellicent may seem like an odd choice, but it's simply the only Ghost-type that can safely spinblock Donphan once, which is usually all this team needs thanks to the offensive pressure the team has. Taunt + Wisp allows Jellicent to beat Blastoise and Scald is mandatory since this is the only switch in the team has for Fire-types. Recover is reliable recovery so that Jellicent can take defensive Donphan's Knock Off and heal it off.

Other Options: Hex hastens the process of beating bulky Water-types 1v1, but everything on the team kind of pressures them pretty hard anyway and missing out on Water STAB is kind of a bad look with Entei and Darmanitan roaming around.


Now that I'm done with the team, here are a few mons I've also had a good time with using over the course of the past couple of weeks:



I feel like a lot of people have forgotten that Bronzong exists. It's lowkey very good right now as it's one of the more reliable switch ins to a ton of powerful mons in the tier right now. Nidoking, Kyurem, Nidoqueen, and Espeon are all Pokemon it can check pretty well. Just make sure you use Iron Head over Gyro Ball if it's your main Kyurem switch in (it should be 80% of the time LOL) since you have a very high chance to lose to SubRoost w/o Iron Head. It has good synergy with Nidoqueen as well, so you could even forego Stealth Rock for Protect or choose to run TSpikes on Nidoqueen. It's also one of the most notable SR users that actually has defensive synergy with the best hazard control options in the tier (Donphan and Gligar)



Mola is still here and it's still amazing. It feels similar to how it was in XY; very good, but definitely easy to pressure. Regenerator + Wish ensures it stays alive for most of the battle and it's very easy to help out the likes of Nidoqueen, Bronzong, and others. Plenty of Grass- and Electric-types to pressure it, but Alo has always worked pretty well with Steel- and Ground-type mons. Just make sure that you don't put too much pressure on it; it's a lot easier for teams to overwhelm it now than it was in ORAS.



Everyone's been loving Shaymin, and for very good reason. However, Roserade is a major pain to deal with. Grass / Poison / Fire coverage is very hard for the tier to deal with and it even has Spikes to pressure your bulky Dragon-types that can handle that coverage... Or it can just use HP Ice to smack those Dragons itself. (Escav is a major threat, so please use HP Fire) The only issue I ever run into is choosing between Leaf Storm and Giga Drain. While Leaf Storm is a great nuke, Giga Drain might be more desirable if you need Roserade to sustain itself against fat Waters as it lacks Natural Cure most times. Obviously Leaf Storm is superior on Sleep Powder variants since they should always be using Natural Cure.
 

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