Skarmory needs more love. 19 isn't good enough.
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Smogon Shoddy Server Statistics - November 2008
- Thread starter DougJustDoug
- Start date
Skarmory "sucks" in this metagame, at least compared to ADV. Which top threats can he handle?
Scizor: Yes, ish.
Heatran: Lol.
Salamence: Nope.
Tyranitar: Not really.
Zapdos: No.
Blissey: Hell, even Bliss runs Flamethrower now.
Gyarados: Nope.
Lucario: Nope.
Infernape: Lol.
Gengar: Nope.
Metagross: Somewhat.
Swampert: Not really.
Bronzong: I... guess.
Azelf: No
Celebi: Usually.
Vaporeon: No
Shaymin-S: This is the threat in the top 19 it can best counter? What?
Starmie: No
That's why Skarmory "sucks".
Scizor: Yes, ish.
Heatran: Lol.
Salamence: Nope.
Tyranitar: Not really.
Zapdos: No.
Blissey: Hell, even Bliss runs Flamethrower now.
Gyarados: Nope.
Lucario: Nope.
Infernape: Lol.
Gengar: Nope.
Metagross: Somewhat.
Swampert: Not really.
Bronzong: I... guess.
Azelf: No
Celebi: Usually.
Vaporeon: No
Shaymin-S: This is the threat in the top 19 it can best counter? What?
Starmie: No
That's why Skarmory "sucks".
I don't feel like starting a discussion, but your post did upset me, since it's so wrong...
Skarmory isn't the best physical wall in the game, which I might have claimed sometimes, don't give me a hard time for that, we all know Hippo is the best. But Skamory is one of the (if not the only one) few Pokémons that has spikes, recovery and roar/whirlwind.
Skarmory does not "suck". <.<
Skarmory isn't the best physical wall in the game, which I might have claimed sometimes, don't give me a hard time for that, we all know Hippo is the best. But Skamory is one of the (if not the only one) few Pokémons that has spikes, recovery and roar/whirlwind.
Skarmory does not "suck". <.<
As far as I know, Azelfs tend to carry Flamethrower/T-Bolt, almost every Blissey has Flamethrower, Scizor's Brick Breaks will take a good chunk of HP from Skarmory and CB Tars obviously will run with a little speed EVs.
Okay lol. I don't play Shoddy 24/7. I need to shoddy more lol. My wi-fi experience doesn't cut it I guess. *runs of to bed, turns on dharma and greg and starts to cry*
another problem with skarm is that sp many people are running nonsensical scarf zone right now. he's still a pretty good check to cbtar.
however i use him @shed shell on my current favorite team ad there is enough stuff that he outright walls and can spike up without fear on that he is "worth using". i prefer him as a spiker alot over forry too in the skymin days.
now that skymin is gone though I'll probably get a replacement =\
however i use him @shed shell on my current favorite team ad there is enough stuff that he outright walls and can spike up without fear on that he is "worth using". i prefer him as a spiker alot over forry too in the skymin days.
now that skymin is gone though I'll probably get a replacement =\
What exactly do the move percentages mean since they add up to more than 100?
Eg:
Eg:
Code:
| Absol | Move | Night Slash | 63.2 |
| Absol | Move | Psycho Cut | 63.1 |
| Absol | Move | Sucker Punch | 61.7 |
| Absol | Move | Superpower | 61.3 |
| Absol | Move | Swords Dance | 59.6 |
| Absol | Move | X-Scissor | 23.5 |
| Absol | Move | Stone Edge | 13.3 |
| Absol | Move | Pursuit | 9.0 |
| Absol | Move | Taunt | 6.2 |
| Absol | Move | Baton Pass | 5.9 |
| Absol | Move | Other (10) | < 4.6 |
They indicate the percentage of Absols that carry that particular move. A Pokemon can have up to 4 moves so the totals should add up to as high as 400.
While we are on the subject of Skarm. Yes, it sucks in this metagame. No, it doesn't beat CB Tar, or any other Tar for that matter. It's not beating CB Meta... since Explosion OHKOs lol. Most importantly, scrap Bronzong from that list. I thoroughly enjoy tricking Choice Bands on to Skarmory every battle!
And Scizor outranks Heatran in OU...
Too bad there hasn't been a significant change in the metagame, but I smell progress. The once abundant Deo leads are dropping and Scarfrai is increasing.
A lot of stuff I want to say has been said by Paltheos.
Okay come on seriously stop this. Stealth Rock, people. Do you want to die in 8 switch ins?
Too bad there hasn't been a significant change in the metagame, but I smell progress. The once abundant Deo leads are dropping and Scarfrai is increasing.
A lot of stuff I want to say has been said by Paltheos.
I am getting annoyed by the lazy max HP thing too, people should be running 248 HP kingdra (353 HP) and Bulkymence with 385 HP, not maximum. Porygon2 as well, Zapdos too, just look at how many things run 252 HP.
RLY LONG POST AHEAD:
Now, it'd just be stupid to say something like, "it di3s to thunerbawlt n phi3r blasts". That's obvious. If you have the patience to read through this ENTIRE analysis of Skarmory's abilities, you might find that I'm right. And if you disagree, that's fine, but it's something I've thought about for a while now, and think it's time I at least got word out.
Now, when something is sent to Underused or Borderline, it's for a myriad of possibilities. The first and foremost obvious one: viability in standard play. Ripping it from Smogon, here's the latest listing in OU.
1 vs. 1 matchups in OU
Aerodactyl
Alakazam
Azelf
Blissey
Breloom
Bronzong
Celebi
Cresselia
Donphan
Dragonite
Dugtrio
Dusknoir
Electivire
Forretress
Gallade
Gengar
Gliscor
Gyarados
Heatran
Heracross
Hippowdon
Infernape
Jirachi
Jolteon
Kingdra
Lucario
Machamp
Magnezone
Mamoswine
Metagross
Ninjask
Porygon-Z
Salamence
Scizor
Skarmory
Snorlax
Starmie
Suicune
Swampert
Tentacruel
Togekiss
Tyranitar
Vaporeon
Weavile
Yanmega
Zapdos
Now, since Skarm folds to most neutral/super effective special hits, let's eliminate everything from the list that generally runs a pure special set. Things that commonly run mixed sets like Infernape and Swampert will not be eliminated for the purpose of this analysis. Magnezone will also not be omitted from this list, for reasons that will be identified later in the analysis.
Aerodactyl
Breloom
Donphan
Dragonite
Dugtrio
Dusknoir
Electivire
Forretress
Gallade
Gliscor
Gyarados
Heracross
Hippowdon
Infernape
Kingdra
Lucario
Machamp
Magnezone
Mamoswine
Metagross
Ninjask
Salamence
Scizor
Snorlax
Swampert
Tyranitar
Weavile
There, now all we have left are the walls, the physical attackers, those with the potential to run mixed sets, and Magnezone. Let's analyze a matchup of Skarmory versus everything on that list, shall we?
Aerodactyl: Skarmory can take on Aerodactyl with relative safety, the only possible danger being a CB Fire Fang, or a Life Orb'd Fire Blast, but since the majority are suicide leads, we'll assume Skarmory is okay, as far as walling. However, it gets taunted, and can't kill Aero off swiftly without Steel Wing, which is also rare on the majority of Skarmory sets, as most run Drill Peck, Roost, Spikes, and Whirlwind.
Breloom: Drill Peck is the only worry for the mushroom warrior, and all it has to do is use it for a Spore shot, get a sub up, and start firing off those Focus Punches. Despite it's wallish nature, and Skarmory's high defense, Focus Punch from Breloom is often a 2-3KO, which isn't ideal.
Donphan: Skarmory can't touch Donphan, while Donphan comfortably will Rapid Spin the Spikes away all day. Donphan, given isn't doing a heck of a lot back, but if it's spinning, it's serving it's purpose.
Dragonite: Dragon Dance is the most common set for Nite, and a good one it is, because after one DD, Fire Punch 2KO's the tin bird. All it can do in retaliation, is Whirlwind it out, hope something comes out that it can grab a free Roost on.
Dugtrio: Skarm isn't worried an awful lot about Dugtrio, so I can say that Skarmory can counter him effectively, since he doesn't get trapped by Arena Trap. That's one for Skarm.
Dusknoir: I can really just say Fire Punch a lot, but here, Dusknoir packs it commonly, to deal with the spins he blocks from Forry, and the ever common Bullet Punching Scizor. Skarmory won't be 2KO'd, but being crippled by Will O' Wisp, and slammed with Fire Punch is not worth setting up your Spikes, especially since you run the risk of eliminating your physical wall, something that isn't encouraged.
Electivire: Electivire is the first pokemon on this list that has the possibility of running a mixed set, and using Thunderbolt or Flamethrower. Even with a pure physical set, Thunderpunch 2KO's.
Forretress: Forretress does next to nothing on Skarm in the way of damage, but setting up Spikes AND spinning them away is something Skarm just can't do. That'll be covered later, but Skarmory doesn't do well against Forretress.
Gallade: Choice Band Close Combat is a guaranteed 2KO with Stealth Rock support. (53.89% - 63.47%)
Gliscor: Another Pokemon that Skarmory can walk out and say it 'countered'. Baton Pass sets are ruined by Whirlwind, and Gliscor can't do much bar an Earthquake as Skarm's roosting, but that's not likely, given their respective Speeds. That's two for Skarmory.
Gyarados: This physical attacker's special attack is poor, so it has no real option of running a good mix set. He doesn't have anything, bar Fire Fang, that can super-effectively damage Skarmory. So why is Gyarados so safe a switch in to Skarmory? Simple. Taunt. It prevents all spiking, roosting, and whirlwinding, and it gets a free DD if it's stupid enough to stay in. In fact, just having that chance of a set up is frightening, since nobody likes stopping Gyarados on a DD. Waterfall does 36.23% - 42.51% with the held item as Lefties after one DD, nature being Adamant, which is already a lot for a neutral hit, and with Life Orb: Damage: 47.01% - 55.39%, which in the case of any residual damage, is a clean 2KO, and there's always that nasty flinch from Waterfall.
Heracross: This one's a bit tricky to say, depends more on the switch going on. Heracross SHOULD NOT switch in, even if Skarm's setting down Spikes, since it will be silenced by a Drill Peck but on the other hand, Choice Band Heracross does 70.54% - 84.61% with a Choice Banded Close Combat. That's scary, and yet again, any past damage scrubs Skarmory over, and if it lives, it'll just become set up bait or be prone to a revenge kill.
Hippowdon: Skarmory can't do much but phaze him, but spiking up is pretty easy on Hippowdon. I would worry about Roosting, though. Hippowdon's STAB'd Earthquake isn't one you want to get hit with. I'll let Skarmory safely say it can counter it's third OU threat.
Infernape: The only reason I mentioned Infernape is to later compare Bronzong to Skarmory in regards to fighting Infernape, but I'll safe that little nougat treat for later. Skarmory can't risk staying and being easily wiped out by a Flamethrower, nor can it let Infernape set up Nasty Plot, so Drill Peck, right?
73.13% - 86.05%
Good one, Skarmory, now it's got Blaze active. You couldn't handle an unboosted Flamethrower, so, yes, it makes more sense to give him the NP boost, and Blaze. That calculation was done on a Hasty Infernape, which means Naive would've also survived and possibly gotten Blaze up. Life Orb kills it in a few rounds, but by then, it'll have done it's damage.
Kingdra: Another common mixed user. Under rain, Surf OHKO's. Without rain: 66.17% - 77.54%
In retaliation, Skarmory Drill Pecks 4 MASUV DAMAJ.
No. It doesn't.
Lucario: Here's one that Skarmory loves to fight, especially considering SD Luke KO's it with a STAB Swords Danced Close Combat 100% of the time. Next.
Machamp: Max Atk, Leftovers as the item, and Dynamic Paunch is fired. Skarmory sponges the hit like a Champ, taking only 31.14% - 36.53%. Not great, but it's better than it's been doing. Choice Band Machamp, however: 46.41% - 54.49%, which is, yet again, a 2KO with Stealth Rock. Skarmory can't roost, or it takes the next one super-effectively. It also cannot do much with Drill Peck, since Machamp is far bulkier than Infernape. Then again, it might not do anything, considering the confusion from Dynamic Punch.
Magnezone: Without a Shed Shell, Skarmory is helpless against a Magnezone. The reason I listed Magnezone is because, later, I'm going to compare it to Bronzong.
Mamoswine: This is one that Skarm takes on well, especially Choice Band versions. It only hates CB Superpower, which is rare, so I'll let Skarmory have his fourth tally.
Metagross: No, no, and god no. It's only relatively safe switch in is on a Meteor Mash, since Thunderpunch on CBGross will neuter him. Even though he resists it, Choice Banded Explosion will strip 85% of Skarmory's health. Skarmory isn't getting any use after that.
Ninjask: 4x Bug Resist, ability to phaze Speed Boost and sub, so it's only real issue is Taunt, plus Ninjask can't stand up to Drill peck. Skarmory: 5
Salamence: Aw, do we have to? Yep. Fire Fang after a DD will 2KO, Flamethrower OHKO's, and a DD Outrage does 39% a hit. Yeah, great job walling it, Skarmory.
Scizor: Resisting Bullet Punch, X-Scissor, U-Turn, and Quick Attack would generally imply: counter, but since Brick Break/Superpower is just that common on Scizor, let's run a calc. This assumes one Swords Dance has been performed.
Brick Break: 40.12% - 47.31%
Superpower: 63.77% - 75.15%
Counter? Bah!
Snorlax: One COULD argue that Fire Punch on a Curse Lax does a lot to Skarm, or it could EQ while Roosting, but for the most part, Skarm is generally able to phaze the fat man, and be on his merry way. Six.
Swampert: Mixpert, the most common Swampert set, obviously hits Skarm on it's poor Sp. Def, while the Cursepert can still slam it with Waterfall, and nail a flinch before being phazed. Usually cripples Skarm on the way out, anyway. Skarm also can't stop Swampert's Stealth Rock from going up, barring Taunt, which is rare on Skarmory. Swampert also sometimes carry Hydro Pump, which gets a clean OHKO on him, no SR needed.
Tyranitar: For the sheer sake of simplicity, I'm going to just use Choice Band Tyranitar for my example this time. Dragon Dance Tyranitar would virtually be the same, since after one DD, the attack stats match, and Tyraniboah would kill Skarm with Special attacks anyway, so that's more than pointless to say.
CB Stone Edge: 47.31% - 55.69%
2KO with Stealth Rock.
Weavile: This is the final physical attacker on the test list. I guess a Swords Danced Ice Punch would really be the only thing that could hurt Skarm, but Skarmory can phaze out the boosts, resists Night Slash and is neutral to Brick Break. Given the fairly low base power of his STAB, I'd say Skarmory's okay here.
Total number of physical threats that Skarmory has impunity against: 7
Seven. You see, I'd only worry about Skarmory if your favorite pokemon are Mamoswine, Snorlax, Dugtrio, Weavile, Ninjask, and Hippowdon, and you made a favorites team. Then, Skarm would own your face. But nobody in their right mind would make that team, mostly because there isn't any special offense, aside from maybe MixMamo.
Yeah... So, there it is. Skarmory doesn't get many more free switch-ins, other than on it's resistances and immunities. Speaking of those, let's take a look-see.
Weaknesses: Fire, Electric
Neutrality: Fighting, Rock, Ice, Water
Resistances: Steel, Dark, Grass, Dragon, Psychic, Bug
Immunities: Poison, Ground.
Okay, this thing DOES have a nice typing, giving it a lot of resistances. But Bug/Flying also has many resistances, but that doesn't mean it's a good defensive typing. It's weaknesses are Fire and Electric. Forget the fact that Electric is a common type to use in the metagame, but Fire, oh, that's crippling. Special fire moves are THE most damaging to the OU metagame. That's right, it's been proven. Skarmory's weaknesses are very common, and almost every team packs them, heavily limiting it's viability. Next, are the neutrality. It mayn't seem that important what it takes normal damage on, but it is. It's neutral to Fighting moves, which, if you read in the 1 on 1's, is not good. Commonly used heavy hitters like Machamp, Gallade, and Heracross can break Skarm to pieces. Rock, while less common, means Skarm can't effectively counter CBtar or DDtar without essentially losing half it's health. Neutrality to Water and Ice make it prone to attacks from Gyarados, so that's an issue. Lastly, it's resistances and immunities. They're useful, somewhat, but it's a mixed bag. I'd say the Psychic and Ground ones are the more useful, though Psychic is questionable. You aren't going to shove this thing in front of a SpecsZam with a sane head, and if you through it Azelf's face, you get Thunderbolted or Fire Blasted. Starmie will Rapid Spin your Spikes away, and slam you with T-bolt. So, no, that's really not helpful, given there's only one physical psychic attack, Zen Headbutt, and that's too rare to make a good resist out of. But Ground, is yes, a good one. Earthquake is the most commonly used move in the metagame, so that's nice. But tread carefully. Roost is a mixed bag in that respect.
Speaking of, what does using Roost buy you? You lose your Electric weakness. AWESO- No. Bad. Very bad. Your gains and losses are not good. You get: Rock & Ice resistances. You lose your electric weakness. That's not that useful considering Skarm is generally slower than it's opposition anyway, and it STILL won't take the special hit well, since Volt Tackle and Thunderpunch are the only physical ones. It gets, however, a weakness to fighting, ground, and retains the common weakness to fire.
Roost: useful, but not without inherit risks.
That about covers it's viability in OU. With all these problems and more, it's got a good shot at BL. But wait, there's more:
The SECOND thing that usually relegates something to UU or BL is an inferiority complex, or it being outclassed by something else. Examples are Blaziken and Infernape, Dragonite and Salamence, and the one that has some relevant point: Skarmory and Bronzong.
Slaking's Choice Band Set Analysis:
Marowak's Swords Dance Set Analysis:
Aerodactyl's Life Orb Set Analysis:
Regardless of the tier, Fire moves are specifically used and as quoted in several overviews for movesets, to combat Forretress, Skarmory, and Bronzong.
Bronzong and Skarmory are almost ALWAYS being compared in all movesets. Fire hits both super-effectively, but why then, would Skarmory have that bad inferiority complex to Zong?
Let's take a gander. First, we'll start with the counters:
Mixape: OHKO's Skarmory without any hassle, HOWEVER, it is interesting to note that the standard Bronzong survives an unboosted Flamethrower, and what can he do? Explode. He always lives with at least 8% heatlh, so taking out Mixape by sacrificing something ready to die anyway is ideal. Skarmory can't OHKO without attack investment, lest it imperil it's great 'defensive' qualities.
Magnezone: This one's a bit luck dependent, but generally, Bronzong will always fare a better chance. Both Bronzong and Skarmory could carry a Shed Shell, but that assuming neither was, Skarmory faints to an instant Thunderbolt, while a Drill Peck does a paltry <20%. Bronzong, on the other hand, at least has a chance. Hypnosis or Earthquake on the switch is deadly for Magnezone, and with SR up, Magnezone will faint with EQ, or at the very least, meet one after being Hypnotized. Not saying it is a perfect strategy, but in their respective situations, Bronzong will always fare a greater chance of success.
All manner of special attackers: Bronzong does sport the same Fire weakness as Skarmory, however, Bronzong has more resistance to Psychic, the same immunity of Ground, and resistance to Rock, and Ice, which makes Stealth Rock a minor hindrance for it. Bronzong also does not have the electric weakness. And Bronzong, with his many resistances, still stands up to neutral hits well, with a base 116 Sp. Def, and, though not as well as Skarmory, takes physical hits nicely, too.
So, Bronzong has better chances to defeat it's counters, sports a better typing, and takes special hits infinitely better than Skarmory. This alone should push the tin birdy down to BL. But no, I have to make two last comparisons of the two, before I ship the metal eagle to UU.
First off, there are the obvious viewpoints of the movepools.
Since Skarmory does not have a special movepool, nor a viable stat to use it with, we'll compare physical options first.
Bronzong:
Gyro Ball, Earthquake, Explosion, Iron Head, Zen Headbutt
Yep. Purdy shallow. But Bronzong doesn't need much more than that, since his support options are so vast. And just this is still a monster when facing most of the metagame.
Skarmory:
Steel Wing, Night Slash, Drill Peck, Rock Slide
Oh, wow. It's even worse that Zong. Besides listing things like Aerial Ace and Peck, this is grace enough. Night Slash will ruin that SpecsZam from earlier trying to switch in. I'm sure it'll OHKO, just like Drill Peck on that Infernape did. Rock Slide is good for Moltres and Charizard, because you will be staying on those and you won't be fried and sent off to a steel mill in Pittsburgh. Steel and Flying are both poor STABs, but at least Zong has low speed and Gyro Ball to work with against that CBTar that 2KO's the iron eagle.
That's not being fair, though. How can you say Skarm's bad if you don't look at it's support? You're just a nubcake who likes to hit things hard and not defense.
Skarmory: Spikes, Stealth Rock, Whirlwind, Roost, Curse, Taunt, Metal Sound, Swords Dance, Agility
Okay, besides the absolutely useless Metal Sound, let's look at everything else he has. Because, really, what is Skarmory going to do, soften up his counters and slam them with a STAB Flash Cannon off of that awesome base 40 Sp. Atk? It's gonna take out Blissey with that, man. Spikes and Stealth Rock are nice, because Skarmory can usually get a layer up before being physically or specially beaten down, then there's Whirlwind for phazing and shuffling. A good chunk of the time, Skarm will shuffle in something that has a move that can kill it, though. Still, a useful tactic. Then we have it's stat alts, which are Agility, Swords Dance, and Curse. Agility isn't all that good, especially when Skarm can't OHKO anything that isn't 4x weak to it's moves, or Ninjask. Then there's Swords Dance, but Steel/Flying are still poor STAB's, and his entire pool gets walled by Heatran, except for Rock Slide, which is neutral, and Heatran still won't care. Curse, I must admit, would be interesting, if Skarmory didn't have poor Sp. Def. Even at Max Sp. Def, Max HP, it's hit taking ability is not great, and it will still be OHKO'd by that unboosted Flamethrower from Infernape. Here's a calc to prove it:
94.91% - 111.38%
My bad, it gets to Curse or fail Drill Peck once before it dies, maybe. But Spikes, SR, Roost, Whirlwind, that's more that Bronzong has got, right?
Bronzong: Hypnosis, Rain Dance, Stealth Rock, Block, Iron Defense, Safeguard, Light Screen, Reflect, Trick Room, Confuse Ray, Calm Mind
Of all the options up there, most are valuable. Stealth Rock is on almost every Bronzong, but Skarm gets that too. Hypnosis, is IMO, the most useful of the others. Sleeping a Heatran/Magnezone switchin is ridiculously useful, especially in Magnezone's case. Block and Calm Mind can trap a slept opponent while bulking your defenses, and since you can actually take hits from both sides, it's viable. Hard, but viable. Light Screen and Reflect soften up hits for the rest of the team, which is great, and makes Bronzong more of a team player than Skarmory. Trick Room turns sweeper's speed against them, allowing for an explosion before your opponent can outspeed you, or a quick status, as well as helping out others like Marowak and Slowbro. Bronzong is easily, the sturdiest lead for a Rain Dance set up, and can explode once you're done, plus it removes your fire weaknesses, meaning you're weak to nothing, and resistant to a lot. Safeguard, Confuse Ray, and Iron Defense border on novelty, but if you're into novelty, that's fine.
The only niche Skarmory has over Bronzong is the ability to Roost, take physical hits slightly better, and use Spikes.
Bronzong offers more support, can actually take out foes quickly, such as sweepers with Gyro Ball, and Exploding if necessary, and he can Hypnosis, which is always a handy status.
If you desperately want a Spiker, I'd go with Forretress instead of Skarm. It takes physical hits about as well, resists ice, can explode, use all three entry hazards, has gyro ball and earthquake for direct offense, and only has one weakness, making it much more manageable, especially when paired with Heatran.
I did mention earlier Bronzong and Skarm's special movepools weren't comparable, and that's because with his special movepool, Bronzong is capable of taking out some of the threats that are posed by the aforementioned sweepers that Skarm had trouble with. Here's how you can deal with them using Bronzong.
Aerodactyl: Bronzong offers a quick OHKO with Gyro Ball, beating suicide leads down. Unfortunately, barely anything stops the Stealth Rock.
Breloom: This is one of the few that Skarmory and Bronzong are on par with together. It's a tad easier for Skarm with Drill Peck, but the sub will still protect it and then it will switch out, having chipped off 50% of either Zong or Skarm's health.
Donphan: This is where Zong's special movepool comes in handy. Grass Knot offers a handy 120 BP attack to use on Donphan's weak Sp. Def.
Dragonite: Bronzong is 2KO'd by a DD Fire Fang, but can Hypnotize, hit it heavily with Gyro Ball, or Explode before it's killed. Other than a critical hit, it can't be OHKO'd by anything off of one Dragon Dance.
Dugtrio: Gyro Ball silences this thing, and only Heatproof Bronzongs are trapped, but still aren't OHKO'd. Skarmory has a bit of trouble taking it down fast.
Dusknoir: This is a bit tricky, but pure special versions of Bronzong are good. Block/Calm Mind is particularly useful here, though beware of Will O' Wisp wearing you down overtime.
Electivire: Bronzong takes no super-effective hits off the standard all physical Vire. He can end it fast with EQ, and is not OHKO'd by any fire move, even Choice Banded Fire Punch.
Forretress: Resists Explosion, Gyro Ball, immune to Earthquake, dodges Spikes and Toxic Spikes, resists SR. I guess the SR resistance is all it's got over Skarm. Or it could use it as a Block/Calm Mind fodder.
Gallade: Still tricky with Zong, but Hypnotizing and then Gyro Ballin' after the defense drops from CC will end it. Plus, he can come in on CB ThunderPunch, and resists Ice Punch, which Skarm can't claim.
Gliscor: Special set helps here, but Gliscor is still walled by any variant of Zong.
Gyarados: Charge Beam is REALLY helpful here, so Bronzong can end it in two hits. One while he sets up the DD, expecting nothing, and then another after you take the hit. Or you can just explode, since you'll be weary afterward.
Heracross: Can't come in on CB Megahorn or CB Close Combat, but Stone Edge and Night Slash aren't a terrible issue. Gyro Ball for success, and if you're sure it can't Sleep Talk, use Hypnosis. Skarm does this one a bit better with Drill Peck.
Hippowdon: Grass Knot, like on Donphan, will be painful. Just look out for the rare CB Fire Fang.
Infernape: As mentioned before, it can survive an unboosted Flamethrower, and explode for the KO, so do that thing.
Kingdra: Be sure it isn't a Sub-DD Kingdra first, because under rain, even when resisted, Gyro Ball 3KOs. You won't be taking many Waterfalls, though, so if you're sure it can't sub, use Explosion.
Lucario: Both Zong and Skarm are messed up by SD Luke, but at least Zong can take and unboosted CC on and EQ for the KO after the defense drops.
Machamp: Tricky, not impossible. Zong resists everything on the typical CB Machamp except for Dynamic Punch, Thunder Punch, and Payback, the latter two shouldn't be debilitating.
Magnezone: As listed up top, it has a shot at it, and it should be noted, it's 2KO'd, not OHKO'd like Skarm, so it can at least reply.
Mamoswine: Bronzong comes in with impunity, and can use super-effective Gyro Balls.
Metagross: Good against anything but Explosion, and it can reply with EQ or Hypnosis.
Ninjask: Gyro Ball will make a cool sound effect when the bug goes splat, but even if it BP's, the recipients still have the same souped up speed to be hammered. SR means Ninjask can't BP that many more times.
Salamence: It can survive Fire Blasts from an Adamant DDMence without being 2KO'd, and Explosion still OHKO's after Intimidate.
Scizor: It's in the same boat as Skarm on this one, except for Hypnosis, and Explosion chipping off 70% of Scizor's HP.
Snorlax: Gyro Ball doesn't do well here, so sleep it, and use the time to set up a sweeper instead. Cursed Fire Punches hurt.
Swampert: Grass Knot, will, as mentioned before, wastes Swampert.
Tyranitar: Resistant to Stone Edge and neutral to Crunch, Bronzong is an ideal candidate for a DD Tar Counter, as Gyro Ball is super-effective, and it is souped up with the speed boost. CBTar is even easier, since Earthquake and Stone Edge are basically blank checks.
Weavile: Gyro Ball will OHKO it, but SD Night Slash does a bit. Still does it better than Skarm.
So, if Skarm can't switch in on most of the OU Metagame, is outclassed by Bronzong, and somewhat by Forretress, what is it still doing in OU? It needs to be in BL/UU. The D/P/P generation is an offensive one, and Hippowdon, Forretress, and Bronzong are superior choices. It's outclassed, it's viability is questionable, so it's a good candidate for Borderline or Underused.
If you don't think this could happen in a generation shift, look at some good examples:
Milotic
Weezing
Claydol
All of them were OU, and now Milotic's BL, while Claydol and Weezing are UU. If Skarmory was Underused, I think it wouldn't be that awful. Weezing, Milotic, and Claydol are all still seen sometimes in standard, and Skarmory isn't banished from OU, so there's a perfect place for it in a UU team somewhere.
A single tiny thing of interest, is that Bronzong can pack the element of surprise with Heatproof, though it isn't advised unless you're bold. Even if Bronzong was limited to Heatproof, it is still superior to Skarmory's Keen Eye and Sturdy. Keen Eye means Sand Attack will fail, (oh, wow.) and Sturdy is useless considering OHKO moves are almost always banned.
Now, it'd just be stupid to say something like, "it di3s to thunerbawlt n phi3r blasts". That's obvious. If you have the patience to read through this ENTIRE analysis of Skarmory's abilities, you might find that I'm right. And if you disagree, that's fine, but it's something I've thought about for a while now, and think it's time I at least got word out.
Now, when something is sent to Underused or Borderline, it's for a myriad of possibilities. The first and foremost obvious one: viability in standard play. Ripping it from Smogon, here's the latest listing in OU.
1 vs. 1 matchups in OU
Aerodactyl
Alakazam
Azelf
Blissey
Breloom
Bronzong
Celebi
Cresselia
Donphan
Dragonite
Dugtrio
Dusknoir
Electivire
Forretress
Gallade
Gengar
Gliscor
Gyarados
Heatran
Heracross
Hippowdon
Infernape
Jirachi
Jolteon
Kingdra
Lucario
Machamp
Magnezone
Mamoswine
Metagross
Ninjask
Porygon-Z
Salamence
Scizor
Skarmory
Snorlax
Starmie
Suicune
Swampert
Tentacruel
Togekiss
Tyranitar
Vaporeon
Weavile
Yanmega
Zapdos
Now, since Skarm folds to most neutral/super effective special hits, let's eliminate everything from the list that generally runs a pure special set. Things that commonly run mixed sets like Infernape and Swampert will not be eliminated for the purpose of this analysis. Magnezone will also not be omitted from this list, for reasons that will be identified later in the analysis.
Aerodactyl
Breloom
Donphan
Dragonite
Dugtrio
Dusknoir
Electivire
Forretress
Gallade
Gliscor
Gyarados
Heracross
Hippowdon
Infernape
Kingdra
Lucario
Machamp
Magnezone
Mamoswine
Metagross
Ninjask
Salamence
Scizor
Snorlax
Swampert
Tyranitar
Weavile
There, now all we have left are the walls, the physical attackers, those with the potential to run mixed sets, and Magnezone. Let's analyze a matchup of Skarmory versus everything on that list, shall we?
Aerodactyl: Skarmory can take on Aerodactyl with relative safety, the only possible danger being a CB Fire Fang, or a Life Orb'd Fire Blast, but since the majority are suicide leads, we'll assume Skarmory is okay, as far as walling. However, it gets taunted, and can't kill Aero off swiftly without Steel Wing, which is also rare on the majority of Skarmory sets, as most run Drill Peck, Roost, Spikes, and Whirlwind.
Breloom: Drill Peck is the only worry for the mushroom warrior, and all it has to do is use it for a Spore shot, get a sub up, and start firing off those Focus Punches. Despite it's wallish nature, and Skarmory's high defense, Focus Punch from Breloom is often a 2-3KO, which isn't ideal.
Donphan: Skarmory can't touch Donphan, while Donphan comfortably will Rapid Spin the Spikes away all day. Donphan, given isn't doing a heck of a lot back, but if it's spinning, it's serving it's purpose.
Dragonite: Dragon Dance is the most common set for Nite, and a good one it is, because after one DD, Fire Punch 2KO's the tin bird. All it can do in retaliation, is Whirlwind it out, hope something comes out that it can grab a free Roost on.
Dugtrio: Skarm isn't worried an awful lot about Dugtrio, so I can say that Skarmory can counter him effectively, since he doesn't get trapped by Arena Trap. That's one for Skarm.
Dusknoir: I can really just say Fire Punch a lot, but here, Dusknoir packs it commonly, to deal with the spins he blocks from Forry, and the ever common Bullet Punching Scizor. Skarmory won't be 2KO'd, but being crippled by Will O' Wisp, and slammed with Fire Punch is not worth setting up your Spikes, especially since you run the risk of eliminating your physical wall, something that isn't encouraged.
Electivire: Electivire is the first pokemon on this list that has the possibility of running a mixed set, and using Thunderbolt or Flamethrower. Even with a pure physical set, Thunderpunch 2KO's.
Forretress: Forretress does next to nothing on Skarm in the way of damage, but setting up Spikes AND spinning them away is something Skarm just can't do. That'll be covered later, but Skarmory doesn't do well against Forretress.
Gallade: Choice Band Close Combat is a guaranteed 2KO with Stealth Rock support. (53.89% - 63.47%)
Gliscor: Another Pokemon that Skarmory can walk out and say it 'countered'. Baton Pass sets are ruined by Whirlwind, and Gliscor can't do much bar an Earthquake as Skarm's roosting, but that's not likely, given their respective Speeds. That's two for Skarmory.
Gyarados: This physical attacker's special attack is poor, so it has no real option of running a good mix set. He doesn't have anything, bar Fire Fang, that can super-effectively damage Skarmory. So why is Gyarados so safe a switch in to Skarmory? Simple. Taunt. It prevents all spiking, roosting, and whirlwinding, and it gets a free DD if it's stupid enough to stay in. In fact, just having that chance of a set up is frightening, since nobody likes stopping Gyarados on a DD. Waterfall does 36.23% - 42.51% with the held item as Lefties after one DD, nature being Adamant, which is already a lot for a neutral hit, and with Life Orb: Damage: 47.01% - 55.39%, which in the case of any residual damage, is a clean 2KO, and there's always that nasty flinch from Waterfall.
Heracross: This one's a bit tricky to say, depends more on the switch going on. Heracross SHOULD NOT switch in, even if Skarm's setting down Spikes, since it will be silenced by a Drill Peck but on the other hand, Choice Band Heracross does 70.54% - 84.61% with a Choice Banded Close Combat. That's scary, and yet again, any past damage scrubs Skarmory over, and if it lives, it'll just become set up bait or be prone to a revenge kill.
Hippowdon: Skarmory can't do much but phaze him, but spiking up is pretty easy on Hippowdon. I would worry about Roosting, though. Hippowdon's STAB'd Earthquake isn't one you want to get hit with. I'll let Skarmory safely say it can counter it's third OU threat.
Infernape: The only reason I mentioned Infernape is to later compare Bronzong to Skarmory in regards to fighting Infernape, but I'll safe that little nougat treat for later. Skarmory can't risk staying and being easily wiped out by a Flamethrower, nor can it let Infernape set up Nasty Plot, so Drill Peck, right?
73.13% - 86.05%
Good one, Skarmory, now it's got Blaze active. You couldn't handle an unboosted Flamethrower, so, yes, it makes more sense to give him the NP boost, and Blaze. That calculation was done on a Hasty Infernape, which means Naive would've also survived and possibly gotten Blaze up. Life Orb kills it in a few rounds, but by then, it'll have done it's damage.
Kingdra: Another common mixed user. Under rain, Surf OHKO's. Without rain: 66.17% - 77.54%
In retaliation, Skarmory Drill Pecks 4 MASUV DAMAJ.
No. It doesn't.
Lucario: Here's one that Skarmory loves to fight, especially considering SD Luke KO's it with a STAB Swords Danced Close Combat 100% of the time. Next.
Machamp: Max Atk, Leftovers as the item, and Dynamic Paunch is fired. Skarmory sponges the hit like a Champ, taking only 31.14% - 36.53%. Not great, but it's better than it's been doing. Choice Band Machamp, however: 46.41% - 54.49%, which is, yet again, a 2KO with Stealth Rock. Skarmory can't roost, or it takes the next one super-effectively. It also cannot do much with Drill Peck, since Machamp is far bulkier than Infernape. Then again, it might not do anything, considering the confusion from Dynamic Punch.
Magnezone: Without a Shed Shell, Skarmory is helpless against a Magnezone. The reason I listed Magnezone is because, later, I'm going to compare it to Bronzong.
Mamoswine: This is one that Skarm takes on well, especially Choice Band versions. It only hates CB Superpower, which is rare, so I'll let Skarmory have his fourth tally.
Metagross: No, no, and god no. It's only relatively safe switch in is on a Meteor Mash, since Thunderpunch on CBGross will neuter him. Even though he resists it, Choice Banded Explosion will strip 85% of Skarmory's health. Skarmory isn't getting any use after that.
Ninjask: 4x Bug Resist, ability to phaze Speed Boost and sub, so it's only real issue is Taunt, plus Ninjask can't stand up to Drill peck. Skarmory: 5
Salamence: Aw, do we have to? Yep. Fire Fang after a DD will 2KO, Flamethrower OHKO's, and a DD Outrage does 39% a hit. Yeah, great job walling it, Skarmory.
Scizor: Resisting Bullet Punch, X-Scissor, U-Turn, and Quick Attack would generally imply: counter, but since Brick Break/Superpower is just that common on Scizor, let's run a calc. This assumes one Swords Dance has been performed.
Brick Break: 40.12% - 47.31%
Superpower: 63.77% - 75.15%
Counter? Bah!
Snorlax: One COULD argue that Fire Punch on a Curse Lax does a lot to Skarm, or it could EQ while Roosting, but for the most part, Skarm is generally able to phaze the fat man, and be on his merry way. Six.
Swampert: Mixpert, the most common Swampert set, obviously hits Skarm on it's poor Sp. Def, while the Cursepert can still slam it with Waterfall, and nail a flinch before being phazed. Usually cripples Skarm on the way out, anyway. Skarm also can't stop Swampert's Stealth Rock from going up, barring Taunt, which is rare on Skarmory. Swampert also sometimes carry Hydro Pump, which gets a clean OHKO on him, no SR needed.
Tyranitar: For the sheer sake of simplicity, I'm going to just use Choice Band Tyranitar for my example this time. Dragon Dance Tyranitar would virtually be the same, since after one DD, the attack stats match, and Tyraniboah would kill Skarm with Special attacks anyway, so that's more than pointless to say.
CB Stone Edge: 47.31% - 55.69%
2KO with Stealth Rock.
Weavile: This is the final physical attacker on the test list. I guess a Swords Danced Ice Punch would really be the only thing that could hurt Skarm, but Skarmory can phaze out the boosts, resists Night Slash and is neutral to Brick Break. Given the fairly low base power of his STAB, I'd say Skarmory's okay here.
Total number of physical threats that Skarmory has impunity against: 7
Seven. You see, I'd only worry about Skarmory if your favorite pokemon are Mamoswine, Snorlax, Dugtrio, Weavile, Ninjask, and Hippowdon, and you made a favorites team. Then, Skarm would own your face. But nobody in their right mind would make that team, mostly because there isn't any special offense, aside from maybe MixMamo.
Yeah... So, there it is. Skarmory doesn't get many more free switch-ins, other than on it's resistances and immunities. Speaking of those, let's take a look-see.
Weaknesses: Fire, Electric
Neutrality: Fighting, Rock, Ice, Water
Resistances: Steel, Dark, Grass, Dragon, Psychic, Bug
Immunities: Poison, Ground.
Okay, this thing DOES have a nice typing, giving it a lot of resistances. But Bug/Flying also has many resistances, but that doesn't mean it's a good defensive typing. It's weaknesses are Fire and Electric. Forget the fact that Electric is a common type to use in the metagame, but Fire, oh, that's crippling. Special fire moves are THE most damaging to the OU metagame. That's right, it's been proven. Skarmory's weaknesses are very common, and almost every team packs them, heavily limiting it's viability. Next, are the neutrality. It mayn't seem that important what it takes normal damage on, but it is. It's neutral to Fighting moves, which, if you read in the 1 on 1's, is not good. Commonly used heavy hitters like Machamp, Gallade, and Heracross can break Skarm to pieces. Rock, while less common, means Skarm can't effectively counter CBtar or DDtar without essentially losing half it's health. Neutrality to Water and Ice make it prone to attacks from Gyarados, so that's an issue. Lastly, it's resistances and immunities. They're useful, somewhat, but it's a mixed bag. I'd say the Psychic and Ground ones are the more useful, though Psychic is questionable. You aren't going to shove this thing in front of a SpecsZam with a sane head, and if you through it Azelf's face, you get Thunderbolted or Fire Blasted. Starmie will Rapid Spin your Spikes away, and slam you with T-bolt. So, no, that's really not helpful, given there's only one physical psychic attack, Zen Headbutt, and that's too rare to make a good resist out of. But Ground, is yes, a good one. Earthquake is the most commonly used move in the metagame, so that's nice. But tread carefully. Roost is a mixed bag in that respect.
Speaking of, what does using Roost buy you? You lose your Electric weakness. AWESO- No. Bad. Very bad. Your gains and losses are not good. You get: Rock & Ice resistances. You lose your electric weakness. That's not that useful considering Skarm is generally slower than it's opposition anyway, and it STILL won't take the special hit well, since Volt Tackle and Thunderpunch are the only physical ones. It gets, however, a weakness to fighting, ground, and retains the common weakness to fire.
Roost: useful, but not without inherit risks.
That about covers it's viability in OU. With all these problems and more, it's got a good shot at BL. But wait, there's more:
The SECOND thing that usually relegates something to UU or BL is an inferiority complex, or it being outclassed by something else. Examples are Blaziken and Infernape, Dragonite and Salamence, and the one that has some relevant point: Skarmory and Bronzong.
Slaking's Choice Band Set Analysis:
Fire Punch hits Bronzong and Skarmory and OHKOs Forretress
Marowak's Swords Dance Set Analysis:
Fire Punch is for Bronzong, Skarmory
Aerodactyl's Life Orb Set Analysis:
Fire Blast becomes a better option than Fire Fang when you have Life Orb, as it will guarantee a OHKO on Forretress, a 2HKO on Skarmory and generally does a little more damage to Bronzong
Regardless of the tier, Fire moves are specifically used and as quoted in several overviews for movesets, to combat Forretress, Skarmory, and Bronzong.
Bronzong and Skarmory are almost ALWAYS being compared in all movesets. Fire hits both super-effectively, but why then, would Skarmory have that bad inferiority complex to Zong?
Let's take a gander. First, we'll start with the counters:
Mixape: OHKO's Skarmory without any hassle, HOWEVER, it is interesting to note that the standard Bronzong survives an unboosted Flamethrower, and what can he do? Explode. He always lives with at least 8% heatlh, so taking out Mixape by sacrificing something ready to die anyway is ideal. Skarmory can't OHKO without attack investment, lest it imperil it's great 'defensive' qualities.
Magnezone: This one's a bit luck dependent, but generally, Bronzong will always fare a better chance. Both Bronzong and Skarmory could carry a Shed Shell, but that assuming neither was, Skarmory faints to an instant Thunderbolt, while a Drill Peck does a paltry <20%. Bronzong, on the other hand, at least has a chance. Hypnosis or Earthquake on the switch is deadly for Magnezone, and with SR up, Magnezone will faint with EQ, or at the very least, meet one after being Hypnotized. Not saying it is a perfect strategy, but in their respective situations, Bronzong will always fare a greater chance of success.
All manner of special attackers: Bronzong does sport the same Fire weakness as Skarmory, however, Bronzong has more resistance to Psychic, the same immunity of Ground, and resistance to Rock, and Ice, which makes Stealth Rock a minor hindrance for it. Bronzong also does not have the electric weakness. And Bronzong, with his many resistances, still stands up to neutral hits well, with a base 116 Sp. Def, and, though not as well as Skarmory, takes physical hits nicely, too.
So, Bronzong has better chances to defeat it's counters, sports a better typing, and takes special hits infinitely better than Skarmory. This alone should push the tin birdy down to BL. But no, I have to make two last comparisons of the two, before I ship the metal eagle to UU.
First off, there are the obvious viewpoints of the movepools.
Since Skarmory does not have a special movepool, nor a viable stat to use it with, we'll compare physical options first.
Bronzong:
Gyro Ball, Earthquake, Explosion, Iron Head, Zen Headbutt
Yep. Purdy shallow. But Bronzong doesn't need much more than that, since his support options are so vast. And just this is still a monster when facing most of the metagame.
Skarmory:
Steel Wing, Night Slash, Drill Peck, Rock Slide
Oh, wow. It's even worse that Zong. Besides listing things like Aerial Ace and Peck, this is grace enough. Night Slash will ruin that SpecsZam from earlier trying to switch in. I'm sure it'll OHKO, just like Drill Peck on that Infernape did. Rock Slide is good for Moltres and Charizard, because you will be staying on those and you won't be fried and sent off to a steel mill in Pittsburgh. Steel and Flying are both poor STABs, but at least Zong has low speed and Gyro Ball to work with against that CBTar that 2KO's the iron eagle.
That's not being fair, though. How can you say Skarm's bad if you don't look at it's support? You're just a nubcake who likes to hit things hard and not defense.
Skarmory: Spikes, Stealth Rock, Whirlwind, Roost, Curse, Taunt, Metal Sound, Swords Dance, Agility
Okay, besides the absolutely useless Metal Sound, let's look at everything else he has. Because, really, what is Skarmory going to do, soften up his counters and slam them with a STAB Flash Cannon off of that awesome base 40 Sp. Atk? It's gonna take out Blissey with that, man. Spikes and Stealth Rock are nice, because Skarmory can usually get a layer up before being physically or specially beaten down, then there's Whirlwind for phazing and shuffling. A good chunk of the time, Skarm will shuffle in something that has a move that can kill it, though. Still, a useful tactic. Then we have it's stat alts, which are Agility, Swords Dance, and Curse. Agility isn't all that good, especially when Skarm can't OHKO anything that isn't 4x weak to it's moves, or Ninjask. Then there's Swords Dance, but Steel/Flying are still poor STAB's, and his entire pool gets walled by Heatran, except for Rock Slide, which is neutral, and Heatran still won't care. Curse, I must admit, would be interesting, if Skarmory didn't have poor Sp. Def. Even at Max Sp. Def, Max HP, it's hit taking ability is not great, and it will still be OHKO'd by that unboosted Flamethrower from Infernape. Here's a calc to prove it:
94.91% - 111.38%
My bad, it gets to Curse or fail Drill Peck once before it dies, maybe. But Spikes, SR, Roost, Whirlwind, that's more that Bronzong has got, right?
Bronzong: Hypnosis, Rain Dance, Stealth Rock, Block, Iron Defense, Safeguard, Light Screen, Reflect, Trick Room, Confuse Ray, Calm Mind
Of all the options up there, most are valuable. Stealth Rock is on almost every Bronzong, but Skarm gets that too. Hypnosis, is IMO, the most useful of the others. Sleeping a Heatran/Magnezone switchin is ridiculously useful, especially in Magnezone's case. Block and Calm Mind can trap a slept opponent while bulking your defenses, and since you can actually take hits from both sides, it's viable. Hard, but viable. Light Screen and Reflect soften up hits for the rest of the team, which is great, and makes Bronzong more of a team player than Skarmory. Trick Room turns sweeper's speed against them, allowing for an explosion before your opponent can outspeed you, or a quick status, as well as helping out others like Marowak and Slowbro. Bronzong is easily, the sturdiest lead for a Rain Dance set up, and can explode once you're done, plus it removes your fire weaknesses, meaning you're weak to nothing, and resistant to a lot. Safeguard, Confuse Ray, and Iron Defense border on novelty, but if you're into novelty, that's fine.
The only niche Skarmory has over Bronzong is the ability to Roost, take physical hits slightly better, and use Spikes.
Bronzong offers more support, can actually take out foes quickly, such as sweepers with Gyro Ball, and Exploding if necessary, and he can Hypnosis, which is always a handy status.
If you desperately want a Spiker, I'd go with Forretress instead of Skarm. It takes physical hits about as well, resists ice, can explode, use all three entry hazards, has gyro ball and earthquake for direct offense, and only has one weakness, making it much more manageable, especially when paired with Heatran.
I did mention earlier Bronzong and Skarm's special movepools weren't comparable, and that's because with his special movepool, Bronzong is capable of taking out some of the threats that are posed by the aforementioned sweepers that Skarm had trouble with. Here's how you can deal with them using Bronzong.
Aerodactyl: Bronzong offers a quick OHKO with Gyro Ball, beating suicide leads down. Unfortunately, barely anything stops the Stealth Rock.
Breloom: This is one of the few that Skarmory and Bronzong are on par with together. It's a tad easier for Skarm with Drill Peck, but the sub will still protect it and then it will switch out, having chipped off 50% of either Zong or Skarm's health.
Donphan: This is where Zong's special movepool comes in handy. Grass Knot offers a handy 120 BP attack to use on Donphan's weak Sp. Def.
Dragonite: Bronzong is 2KO'd by a DD Fire Fang, but can Hypnotize, hit it heavily with Gyro Ball, or Explode before it's killed. Other than a critical hit, it can't be OHKO'd by anything off of one Dragon Dance.
Dugtrio: Gyro Ball silences this thing, and only Heatproof Bronzongs are trapped, but still aren't OHKO'd. Skarmory has a bit of trouble taking it down fast.
Dusknoir: This is a bit tricky, but pure special versions of Bronzong are good. Block/Calm Mind is particularly useful here, though beware of Will O' Wisp wearing you down overtime.
Electivire: Bronzong takes no super-effective hits off the standard all physical Vire. He can end it fast with EQ, and is not OHKO'd by any fire move, even Choice Banded Fire Punch.
Forretress: Resists Explosion, Gyro Ball, immune to Earthquake, dodges Spikes and Toxic Spikes, resists SR. I guess the SR resistance is all it's got over Skarm. Or it could use it as a Block/Calm Mind fodder.
Gallade: Still tricky with Zong, but Hypnotizing and then Gyro Ballin' after the defense drops from CC will end it. Plus, he can come in on CB ThunderPunch, and resists Ice Punch, which Skarm can't claim.
Gliscor: Special set helps here, but Gliscor is still walled by any variant of Zong.
Gyarados: Charge Beam is REALLY helpful here, so Bronzong can end it in two hits. One while he sets up the DD, expecting nothing, and then another after you take the hit. Or you can just explode, since you'll be weary afterward.
Heracross: Can't come in on CB Megahorn or CB Close Combat, but Stone Edge and Night Slash aren't a terrible issue. Gyro Ball for success, and if you're sure it can't Sleep Talk, use Hypnosis. Skarm does this one a bit better with Drill Peck.
Hippowdon: Grass Knot, like on Donphan, will be painful. Just look out for the rare CB Fire Fang.
Infernape: As mentioned before, it can survive an unboosted Flamethrower, and explode for the KO, so do that thing.
Kingdra: Be sure it isn't a Sub-DD Kingdra first, because under rain, even when resisted, Gyro Ball 3KOs. You won't be taking many Waterfalls, though, so if you're sure it can't sub, use Explosion.
Lucario: Both Zong and Skarm are messed up by SD Luke, but at least Zong can take and unboosted CC on and EQ for the KO after the defense drops.
Machamp: Tricky, not impossible. Zong resists everything on the typical CB Machamp except for Dynamic Punch, Thunder Punch, and Payback, the latter two shouldn't be debilitating.
Magnezone: As listed up top, it has a shot at it, and it should be noted, it's 2KO'd, not OHKO'd like Skarm, so it can at least reply.
Mamoswine: Bronzong comes in with impunity, and can use super-effective Gyro Balls.
Metagross: Good against anything but Explosion, and it can reply with EQ or Hypnosis.
Ninjask: Gyro Ball will make a cool sound effect when the bug goes splat, but even if it BP's, the recipients still have the same souped up speed to be hammered. SR means Ninjask can't BP that many more times.
Salamence: It can survive Fire Blasts from an Adamant DDMence without being 2KO'd, and Explosion still OHKO's after Intimidate.
Scizor: It's in the same boat as Skarm on this one, except for Hypnosis, and Explosion chipping off 70% of Scizor's HP.
Snorlax: Gyro Ball doesn't do well here, so sleep it, and use the time to set up a sweeper instead. Cursed Fire Punches hurt.
Swampert: Grass Knot, will, as mentioned before, wastes Swampert.
Tyranitar: Resistant to Stone Edge and neutral to Crunch, Bronzong is an ideal candidate for a DD Tar Counter, as Gyro Ball is super-effective, and it is souped up with the speed boost. CBTar is even easier, since Earthquake and Stone Edge are basically blank checks.
Weavile: Gyro Ball will OHKO it, but SD Night Slash does a bit. Still does it better than Skarm.
So, if Skarm can't switch in on most of the OU Metagame, is outclassed by Bronzong, and somewhat by Forretress, what is it still doing in OU? It needs to be in BL/UU. The D/P/P generation is an offensive one, and Hippowdon, Forretress, and Bronzong are superior choices. It's outclassed, it's viability is questionable, so it's a good candidate for Borderline or Underused.
If you don't think this could happen in a generation shift, look at some good examples:
Milotic
Weezing
Claydol
All of them were OU, and now Milotic's BL, while Claydol and Weezing are UU. If Skarmory was Underused, I think it wouldn't be that awful. Weezing, Milotic, and Claydol are all still seen sometimes in standard, and Skarmory isn't banished from OU, so there's a perfect place for it in a UU team somewhere.
A single tiny thing of interest, is that Bronzong can pack the element of surprise with Heatproof, though it isn't advised unless you're bold. Even if Bronzong was limited to Heatproof, it is still superior to Skarmory's Keen Eye and Sturdy. Keen Eye means Sand Attack will fail, (oh, wow.) and Sturdy is useless considering OHKO moves are almost always banned.
imperfectluck
Banned deucer.
The numbers for this are incorrect. Also, you seem to ignore how Skarmory can come in easily on Pokemon like Bronzong and Blissey that you omitted to mention.
^^^^^
Wow. That was a very in-depth analysis of why....skarmory sucks.
Wow. That was a very in-depth analysis of why....skarmory sucks.
Wishbliss is common carrier of Flamethrower, which was mentioned above. Yes, it can come in on Bronzong. I didn't say it couldn't come in on anything, I'm just saying it can't counter a lot, and can't come in on much.
EDIT: Okay, I realize now that Hydro Pump's a 2KO. I read the Swampert analysis a while back and misread it. Everything else is done with calcs.
Skarmory isn't that bad. Sure he loses to a lot of stuff but he beats a lot of stuff and sets up Spikes with ease too. One could also use Swords Dance/Drill Peck/Roost/Taunt for good sweeping power (destroys Forry, other Skarms, sets up on many things. Gets countered by a lot but don't underestimate it. Ever). I'm sorry if I can't come up with a great argument right now, but you're making him look bad which he certainly isn't.
252 HP / 112 Def / 146 SDef Impish Skarmory @ Leftovers
This guarantees that Earthquake won't 2HKO Skarmory during his Roosts, and Swampert needs 243 Special Attack to even have the VERY slightest chance to 2HKO Skarmory with Hydro Pump. I don't know how much a typical Swampert runs, but we'll just say the Mixpert runs 100 SA EVs, which give it 233 in its Special Attack stat. This is not enough to 2HKO Skarmory. Skarm only needs 205 SDef (stat) to survive 2 Hydro Pumps from 233 SA Swampert with Leftovers, actually. So Skarm isn't going to be so easily taken down by Pert, when you consider that one can mix up between Roost and Spikes and then finally end up setting up three layers on Swampert.
Fine. What if I were to say, Skarmory spams its Drill Peck right in front of Donphan? Unless Donphan has Rest it will be worn down pretty quickly.
And after the Defense drop Skarmory OHKOes with Brave Bird
Meteor Mash, Earthquake, Ice Punch, Bullet Punch.
Alright this is possibly why Skarmory should run some Special Defense. That and let's not forget Skarmory can still outstall Hydro Pumps with Roost AND Hydro Pump has 80% acc. Of course Pert can Quake him on his Roosts, so mix it up.
252 HP / 112 Def / 146 SDef Impish Skarmory @ Leftovers
This guarantees that Earthquake won't 2HKO Skarmory during his Roosts, and Swampert needs 243 Special Attack to even have the VERY slightest chance to 2HKO Skarmory with Hydro Pump. I don't know how much a typical Swampert runs, but we'll just say the Mixpert runs 100 SA EVs, which give it 233 in its Special Attack stat. This is not enough to 2HKO Skarmory. Skarm only needs 205 SDef (stat) to survive 2 Hydro Pumps from 233 SA Swampert with Leftovers, actually. So Skarm isn't going to be so easily taken down by Pert, when you consider that one can mix up between Roost and Spikes and then finally end up setting up three layers on Swampert.
SpecsMence is good again?
Wow, that's something new. Blissey, even at no. 6 has seen a good decline lately, so I can see that.
Rhyperior is Overused again cool and thanks for the stats Doug.
Not that anyone switches Blissey in against Salamence anyways.
It's all about leaving strong impressions. If you can blast something with Draco Meteor early in the game, I guarantee you can blissey to switch into salamence' brick break later on.
@skarmory topic-- keep in mind Chris originally said it "sucks" (in quotation marks) "compare to ADV." Which is certainly true. Skarmory of course is still a solid poke, if not it wouldn't be 19 on the useage list? >>
@skarmory topic-- keep in mind Chris originally said it "sucks" (in quotation marks) "compare to ADV." Which is certainly true. Skarmory of course is still a solid poke, if not it wouldn't be 19 on the useage list? >>