SPL VII - Salty Suite

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Nails

Double Threat
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yeah i guess

i meant that given the lack of planning or foresight i expected it to turn out worse
 

Nails

Double Threat
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like i had really low expectations for it so the fact that more than half the matches ended up getting played means it exceeded my expectations
 

jake

underdog of the year
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i pretty much share nails's opinion. i wanted salty suite to happen this SPL even with minimal planning and preparation because i felt like waiting a whole year to test this idea was terrible and it would make tournaments feel reeeally slow to grow and improve. this unfortunately has definitely been lame throughout most of its lifespan (even if we got a bunch of entertaining posts out of it), and i'm not 100% sure if it was the process of selecting matchups that made it go sour, if we didn't have enough genuinely entertaining "salty" matches for it to still hold interesting, or if the whole idea just wasn't up to what our expectations were. probably a combination of all three + lack of prep.

if we were to run this in the future, i think we would heavily rely on community input to both nominate and select pairings about a week prior to midseason. i'd still veto pairings that went against the spirit of the competition or were just plain retarded, but more community involvement isn't a bad thing (and having more pairings would mean more games). doing it a week earlier would allow people to actually schedule during midseason and/or prep earlier and get games done when they actually should've been done. for the record, though: i don't know if we will run this again in the future, or if we'll go back to all-stars, or if we'll run with another idea.

i'm still open to leaving this for a couple of days so that Calloflochie and King UU can finish their scheduled stuff, but if they're no longer interested in finishing their games within the next couple of days i'll lock this. n_n
 
the difference between smash and pokemon is that in smash the better player wins so people who hate each other can duke it out with big stakes and no fear of getting haxed. the fact that everyone knows each other irl also introduces more accountability. those 2 facts together make it much more difficult to dodge an opponent if you get called out.

in pokemon there's always the element of luck changing the tides of the games adding an element of fear of getting bullshitted to people doing high-stakes matches, as well as the fact that nobody has really invested themselves in pokemon the way they have in smash. the result is that matches kinda just don't happen, or they happen with a bunch of pussyfooted GGing and posts that say "actually i dont hate this guy we just disagree abt some stuff"

TBH regardless of the above inescapable shortcomings you should just run it again anyway; while this year's was worse than all-stars, all stars is always at the same level of entertainment (read: higher than this but not high by any means) whereas a salty suite always has the potential to be a huge event. it's like, the expected value of an all-star week is higher overall, but by such a negligible amount that you might as well take the lower average return from salty suite to get the huge potential reward
 
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Stratos

Banned deucer.
speaking as one of the favorites to win going into the match, the winning move was absolutely not to play. The reward for winning was nothing (in fact, it was less than nothing, i still got shit on without dropping a game) and the punishment for losing is extremely high. If you john, sure you might get a bit of shit for pussying out but everyone will forget quickly enough. With how high variance of a game Pokemon is, no sane person is going to take that bet. The underdog has a better risk profile overall but still may be best served by just not playing if they don't think they have a very good chance of taking down the favorite. I'm not saying the Tournaments community needs to change, but the way it is now pretty much precludes anyone actually being willing to risk participating in the salty suite. Of course, this is only my perspective and may not be universally applicable thanks to my "unique" position in the hierarchy of this website so u may want to ask Finch or something

the result is that matches kinda just don't happen, or they happen with a bunch of pussyfooted GGing and posts that say "actually i dont hate this guy we just disagree abt some stuff"
wanna clear this up tho: the reason my win post is what it was is cuz i felt bad for checkmater because in the last month or so he hadn't done anything to deserve my hate. I wasn't hedging my bets...I intentionally only let up on him after the match, to increase the hype of the spectacle and avoid the impression that I was hedging my bets.
 

Reymedy

ne craint personne
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the difference between smash and pokemon is that in smash the better player wins so people who hate each other can duke it out with big stakes and no fear of getting haxed.
excuse me but that's a stupid argument and it makes more sense if you reverse it
why the hell would chilling call out leffen when it's p clear who the best player is, and as you said, there's no hax possible ?
there's rarely upsets in smash, while our dumb game is all about upsets because literally anything can happen

and while it's true that you don't really want to play a bragging rights game when you could get haxed, I think there's still potential because competition, salt etc.
i blame the failure on the fact that it was literally set up a day or two before the thread got up, and it's quite amazing that any game occurred given that you have to choose the matchups, ask the players, wait for their answers etc etc.

it's only gonna make next year's suite better imo though, because that was still a good experience for the people organizing it and why would you complain at all when all stars week is the lamest shit i've ever seen and no one has been ever remotely entertained by it anyway
do you even remember a single all stars game ? all i can remember was that ive seen an electrode once in BW before closing the window

edit: if i see something stupid i mention it, deal with it
 
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excuse me but that's a stupid argument and it makes more sense if you reverse it
why the hell would chilling call out leffen when it's p clear who the best player is, and as you said, there's no hax possible ?
there's rarely upsets in smash, while our dumb game is all about upsets because literally anything can happen
chillin had a lot of tangible stuff to gain from calling out leffen, his stream views subscriptions and donations skyrocketed as a direct result of that beef

he did lose pride/bragging rights which in the case of pokemon is all we're playing for

i'm not going to just call your argument stupid though, i don't need to do that to get a point across every time i disagree with someone about something


finally I should note after reading the rest of your post that we actually pretty much agree that salty suite will always be better than all star week especially due to the high potential entertainment value of the event
 
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Isa

I've never felt better in my life
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for what it's worth i would prolly have watched one or two all star games tops if we had done those, but now i actually regretted having to go to sleep and miss out on some of the dubs action

yes the games were not as high quality as we might have wished but apart from the actual games it was a fun experience. i even got to trashtalk everyone involved which i usually try to be more gentle about, so i had a good time!
 

Kink

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i pretty much share nails's opinion. i wanted salty suite to happen this SPL even with minimal planning and preparation because i felt like waiting a whole year to test this idea was terrible and it would make tournaments feel reeeally slow to grow and improve. this unfortunately has definitely been lame throughout most of its lifespan (even if we got a bunch of entertaining posts out of it), and i'm not 100% sure if it was the process of selecting matchups that made it go sour, if we didn't have enough genuinely entertaining "salty" matches for it to still hold interesting, or if the whole idea just wasn't up to what our expectations were. probably a combination of all three + lack of prep.

if we were to run this in the future, i think we would heavily rely on community input to both nominate and select pairings about a week prior to midseason. i'd still veto pairings that went against the spirit of the competition or were just plain retarded, but more community involvement isn't a bad thing (and having more pairings would mean more games). doing it a week earlier would allow people to actually schedule during midseason and/or prep earlier and get games done when they actually should've been done. for the record, though: i don't know if we will run this again in the future, or if we'll go back to all-stars, or if we'll run with another idea.

i'm still open to leaving this for a couple of days so that Calloflochie and King UU can finish their scheduled stuff, but if they're no longer interested in finishing their games within the next couple of days i'll lock this. n_n
Very much wanting to, but I haven't received correspondance.
 

WhiteQueen

the queen bee
is a Tiering Contributorwon the 11th Official Smogon Tournamentis a Past SPL Champion
Laurel thinking for a second that he could provoke me was pretty hilarious. Salty Suite > All-Stars by a long shot. At least you got some funny har har posts out of this. All-Stars is like a fish trying to swim on land; it's uncomfortable to watch.
 
I had no interestin any of the matches this week. All stars s no better though.

In my opinion should be a manager tournament with the winning manager receiving a bonus point for their spl team.

Alternatively get rid of midseason. I dont think it serves much of a point. We didnt have it in spl1+2 and i dont think there was any problems.
 

Haruno

Skadi :)
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Why don't we just stop infracting users for shittalking each other and let them play it out in salty suite all year round instead. Winner gets to decide if the loser gets infracted or whatnot, johns obviously lose by default. This should at least keep tensions high, won't give us disappointing matches and actually discourages niggas from shittalking each other for fear of getting their ass called out. Either that or we get this lame dubs shit.
 

WhiteQueen

the queen bee
is a Tiering Contributorwon the 11th Official Smogon Tournamentis a Past SPL Champion
i pretty much share nails's opinion. i wanted salty suite to happen this SPL even with minimal planning and preparation because i felt like waiting a whole year to test this idea was terrible and it would make tournaments feel reeeally slow to grow and improve. this unfortunately has definitely been lame throughout most of its lifespan (even if we got a bunch of entertaining posts out of it), and i'm not 100% sure if it was the process of selecting matchups that made it go sour, if we didn't have enough genuinely entertaining "salty" matches for it to still hold interesting, or if the whole idea just wasn't up to what our expectations were. probably a combination of all three + lack of prep.

if we were to run this in the future, i think we would heavily rely on community input to both nominate and select pairings about a week prior to midseason. i'd still veto pairings that went against the spirit of the competition or were just plain retarded, but more community involvement isn't a bad thing (and having more pairings would mean more games). doing it a week earlier would allow people to actually schedule during midseason and/or prep earlier and get games done when they actually should've been done. for the record, though: i don't know if we will run this again in the future, or if we'll go back to all-stars, or if we'll run with another idea.

i'm still open to leaving this for a couple of days so that Calloflochie and King UU can finish their scheduled stuff, but if they're no longer interested in finishing their games within the next couple of days i'll lock this. n_n
What about giving Farm League players an incentive to play? The top 2 players in their respective tier will face each other come Midseason, and the winner will be randomly gifted to one of the ten teams? This would actually make the matches meaningful, and it would also give each team a "boost." Most importantly, it will give users a real reason to actually compete in the Farm League and not feel like they're wasting their time and effort for nothing.

The games would be entertaining too, and it could increase users' participation. It would also give some unknown players a chance and not feel like they have to give BJs on the side to get picked.
 
What about giving Farm League players an incentive to play? The top 2 players in their respective tier will face each other come Midseason, and the winner will be randomly gifted to one of the ten teams? This would actually make the matches meaningful, and it would also give each team a "boost." Most importantly, it will give users a real reason to actually compete in the Farm League and not feel like they're wasting their time and effort for nothing.

The games would be entertaining too, and it could increase users' participation. It would also give some unknown players a chance and not feel like they have to give BJs on the side to get picked.
Maybe not random but to the last in the standings I guess
 

Texas Cloverleaf

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Nice idea, undermines the work of managers who draft not purely for one's ability to play Pokemon but also for the ability to function and support a team environment. Chemistry is a powerful force multiplier.
 
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