[SPOILERS] Battle Spot in Gen 7 Discussion - News, Speculation & Leaks

cant say

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Amongst all the hype and reveals for Sun & Moon that's been flying out nearly every week, the TPCi has also been releasing information for Gen 7 Battle Spot that you may have missed as it's on their website instead of in the youtube videos. I'll (try to) keep this OP updated with info as it comes out!

What we know so far:
  • Triples and Rotations are gone!
    • The site states: The three existing sets of battle rules for Rating Battles (Single, Double, Special), will be increased to four with the addition of a new set of battle rules for the Championships Battle format. This also means;
  • VGC will have its own dedicated ladder, which means the Special ladder will not be used and therefore always have its own format!
    • The Season 1 Special is going to be 3v3 Singles with Ubers including Solgaleo, Lunaala, Magearna, and Ash-Greninja
    • Due to the wording of this announcement on the site, it seems as though Ash-Greninja will be banned from regular Rating Battles like the box / mythical legends.
  • The battle timer is being changed to be more similar to that of a chess clock.
    • It's still 60 seconds per turn, but the 30 minute game limit is being changed so that each player has 10 minutes total. Time from selecting a move is subtracted from this 10 minutes, and if your 10 minutes runs out you lose. This means no more timerstalling, and potentially the end of Stall strategies altogether.
  • Pokemon from Gen 6 games (ie: ones with the Pentagon) will be eligible for Rating Battle for a "set time" after Pokemon Bank updates in January.
    • So similar to XY Battle Spot allowing transfers. It will probably be for a season or two.
  • It seems as though Pokemon brought from the Virtual Console games will be banned, however it's stated that there will be Special rules and Online Competitions that allow them
    • *Fissure Machamp memes*
  • Rental Teams via QR code!
    • You don't even have to breed and use your own teams, you can scan QR codes that people share which contain a team they've saved and allows you to use that in Battle Spot! This will be amazing for posting RMTs and Community Create-a-Team projects!
  • Host your own Competitions!
    • We are going to be able to set up our own Online Competitions with customised rules / regulations. I'm sure we will be making full use of this around here
  • Mega Evolutions are back!
    • No new megas have been announced, but mega stones have been confirmed and are purchasable with BP rather than having to adventure around for them. They're banned in VGC17, no word on Rating Battles.

That's it I think. Feel free to post what you think about these changes or speculate on how the metagames will be affected by them or new Pokemon etc
 

Theorymon

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I mean maybe its possiable that triples and rotations are still in, and they just aren't mentioned cuz they are so niche... but for now, rip sweet prince and princess :(

On the bright side, QR rentals is fucking HUGE! I certainly think we should organize several databases of these things. For example, a thread where high ranking teams QR codes are posted, maybe start nugget bridge styled team analyses to help people earn. the possabilities are endless! I think it might be a good idea to start a project with QR rental teams for hard to get mons too. For example, if we get one of those weirdo tournaments that allow ancient back transfers, we might want to call on all people with say, Helping Hand Dusclops to pump out some QR codes!

For custom made tournaments, maybe we can use this to bridge Smogon formats and Battle Spot formats a bit. I think it might be fun to say, have an in cart OU ladder this way. It won't be hard to make the teams either thanks to the magic of QR codes as well!

Finally, the site mentioned that the Sun and Moon demo is 400 MB. The ORAS demo was 250 MB and it had all the mons in it... so there is a serious chance that Gamefreak has learned nothing and we will learn about EVERY Pokemon in two weeks via dataming! If that happens, I imagine we might not be able to do analyses right away, but if we can't, I think its a good idea for us to start talking about them asap, and maybe as a forum, pooling together the results of these discussions to have some sort of hyped up database onsite about how each new mon might turn out!
 

DragonWhale

It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
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Also the new timer doesn't nerf stall. It nerfs timerstall.

Stall is likely going to be a contest of "who can think the fastest", instead of "who played better". Even if you're up 3-1 if you run out of time first after many many turns you lose.

I'm definitely not a fan of it for this reason.
 
  • Pokemon from Gen 6 games (ie: ones with the Pentagon) will be eligible for Rating Battle for a "set time" after Pokemon Bank updates in January.
    • So similar to XY Battle Spot allowing transfers. It will probably be for a season or two.
gdi I'll have to rebreed all my 'mons won't I

Eh, tbh I can just transfer over my competitive 'mons from Gen 6 and rebreed from them considering they already have the ideal IVs. Not that big a deal in hindsight.

Rental teams could be huge though, I imagine I'll be making use of them on account of being meh at teambuilding for Battle Spot (and is kind of why battle spot metas are my least played) :P. I imagine we'll have QR codes cracked somewhat soon so we can have some sort of Showdown importable to QR Code thing going on.

Custom Competitions are hype af though
 

DragonWhale

It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
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I just imagined Theorymon 10-15 years from now having a kid who plays pokemon and one day the kid asks him, "Daddy, what's triple battles?" and tmon suddenly feels really old like how parents today feel when talking about floppy disks.

...That's how much I think Triples and Rotations are going to be gone forever.
 

cant say

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Also the new timer doesn't nerf stall. It nerfs timerstall.

Stall is likely going to be a contest of "who can think the fastest", instead of "who played better". Even if you're up 3-1 if you run out of time first after many many turns you lose.

I'm definitely not a fan of it for this reason.
Oh right, for some reason I was thinking that stall would only get 10 turns to battle with if their opponent used all 60 seconds each turn. I obviously forgot that that person would lose by running out their own 10 minute timer... lol

does this mean Stall might be even stronger..?
 
Ah well, Triples/Rotations were only really there as easy point farms for people that try to peak the "total points" thing on PGL. Rotations is a very fun and unique meta of spamming Wish and stat buffs crushing the only threat to Khan / Mence and clicking Return. Kind of like Singles, but having no idea wtf either player will do on any turn and phazing/hazards are an absolute joke.
Won't miss them lol.

QR Code rental teams seems awesome as hell, I'll be pumping out Doubles cancer like none other. The current Doubles Sample team thread is hitting character limits anyway, so if I could post entire teams with just a QR code... hell's bells. B)

I was severely worried that they never showed Megas at all, but I guess they're confirmed now? No new megas would be... well, bizarre.
Ash Greninja is fucking retarded though, if it's banned in sntandard Singles/Doubles I won't shed a tear.
No Megas for 1-2 seasons might be neat though, gives us a bit of relief after Khan / Mence / Garde spam in Doubles, and whatever the hell people spam in Singles (Mega Luke/Khan/Altaria?).

Timer change is interesting. Punishes timerstall, which I am 100% a fan of, but should be enough for careful thinking. 40 secs thought per turn in tough matches is still enough for a 15 turn match. I like it.
 

Theorymon

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ProjectTitan313 afaik the no mega stone rule only applies to VGC, singles and doubles will still allow them. Only thing is that now you get mega stones with battle points, and they cost 64 battle points each x_x. I hope I can use my Pokebank battle points Ive been storing for Janurary, or else Im gonna have to go on one hell of a battle tower binge lol.
 

Psynergy

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ProjectTitan313 afaik the no mega stone rule only applies to VGC, singles and doubles will still allow them. Only thing is that now you get mega stones with battle points, and they cost 64 battle points each x_x. I hope I can use my Pokebank battle points Ive been storing for Janurary, or else Im gonna have to go on one hell of a battle tower binge lol.
Chances are we'll be able to get at least some of the stones without actually needing to hoard Battle Points so you may not need to go on such a huge farming session. Otherwise for the ones you need to buy you can prioritize them with like Kang/Gengar/Blaziken/Mence first, then like Mawile/Zard X and Y/Garde/Heracross/Slowbro/Venusaur/Lucario second, everything else afterwards if/when you need them. The ability to buy more than one Mega Stone will definitely be convenient though.
 
Uh ... holding out faint hope that they simply didn't mention Triples and Rotation, since the phrasing of "three existing formats" is a little strange.

The new battle box system and permanent VGC ladders are amazing. Though I'm torn on both the timer and rental teams.

Edit: VGC tournaments are going to get real fuckin' weird, not to mention more difficult to place consistently in, with the advent of the rental system. Unless they're banned from live events.

The timer can potentially favor evasion in certain situations, as one of the main ways to combat it was to abuse the shared game timer and force a tie-breaker. While ten minutes is short, it's not as though the entire match has been lowered to that time limit (at least from this phrasing). Ten minutes just for move selection is plenty of time.

The more I think about it, the more I'm actively against the last two changes. Timerstall was not a big issue at all, except as a viable response to evasion strategies that don't output much damage. The only change I'd have wanted to see would have been to implement VGC's fifteen-minute timer in all ranked battles.

Ah well, Triples/Rotations were only really there as easy point farms for people that try to peak the "total points" thing on PGL.
Triples was/is a lively competitive format with regular grassroots events in Japan.
 
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Hulavuta

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I wouldn't get too excited about the QR teams just yet. I think we've been spoiled a bit by importables; this will be quite a bit different. From what I understand, you cannot edit the team at all, so making that one tiny change to make it better isn't gonna happen. You also can't just make teams out of nothing, someone at some point will have to actually breed the exact team you want.

Still, I'm a little torn on it too. On the one hand, it does lower the barrier to entry, but I'm kinda bummed the barrier is lowered at this point when we've already had to get over it ourselves. I think I would like it for custom battles, so you can get your friends a nice team to get them into battling, but not for rated battles. I think the barrier to that should be set somewhat higher. But maybe I'm just being salty.

Being able to save 6 of your teams is a godsend though, reminds me of the deck machine in the TCG video game. I sincerely hope it saves the moves as well, that's always the biggest hassle. Let's just say it'll be easier if I can save Super Mega Ultra and not have to worry about running around to put Blast Burn, Rock Wrecker, Hyper Beam, and Giga Impact onto the Pokemon each time.

Really, my biggest worry is that the playing field is so evened out by this that I will finally have to actually get good at the game in order to stand out. :(
 
Really, my biggest worry is that the playing field is so evened out by this that I will finally have to actually get good at the game in order to stand out. :(
I think it's possibly(?) a net positive for Rating Battles, as they'll be better practice. Lowering barriers to entry is also generally good, though I thought they were doing enough of that with IV training to take away the last real hurdle.

My big fear is that a high number of these teams show up at large events (regionals) and create an even more unstable environment for placing highly. Pokemon already has enough of a luck factor. If you add a larger field of players with not only competent, but good teams, even if they're an event out of date, it's going to be much harder to separate from the rest of the pack even if you're a much better player. Just an odds game. Players badly piloting good teams have better odds of sharking wins than bad players piloting bad to mediocre teams.
 

Hulavuta

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My big fear is that a high number of these teams show up at large events (regionals) and create an even more unstable environment for placing highly. Pokemon already has enough of a luck factor. If you add a larger field of players with not only competent, but good teams, even if they're an event out of date, it's going to be much harder to separate from the rest of the pack even if you're a much better player. Just an odds game.
Yeah, that's what I meant but didn't really articulate. With the luck factor in Pokemon, I'm anxious if we might see a big increase in the number of fluke wins due to a bunch of people just having access to good teams. Hence my point about having to get really good at the game in order to stand out; basically this emphasizes one type of "skill" as a factor to winning at the cost of another.
 

Theorymon

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As a counterpoint, maybe this will make creativity more important to punch holes into specfic weaknesses of major shared teams.
 
Yeah, that's what I meant but didn't really articulate. With the luck factor in Pokemon, I'm anxious if we might see a big increase in the number of fluke wins due to a bunch of people just having access to good teams. Hence my point about having to get really good at the game in order to stand out; basically this emphasizes one type of "skill" as a factor to winning at the cost of another.
Yeah. The issue is that Pokemon is a game where "good" only overcomes its luck factor so much, hence the swiss and Bo3 formats, and those odds get worse with bigger pools of players with competent teams. Knowing the meta enough to at least have a good team (and create it on-cart, even back when genning was a thing), has always been a small barrier that I think is actually healthy.
 

kamikaze

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there is no way rental teams will be allowed at vgc events, so no need to worry about that. all teams are strictly required to be placed in the battle box, not in one of the 6 qr team slots. and they also said that they will only be allowed in linked battles and some rating battles.
 
there is no way rental teams will be allowed at vgc events, so no need to worry about that. all teams are strictly required to be placed in the battle box, not in one of the 6 qr team slots. and they also said that they will only be allowed in linked battles and some rating battles.
Oh. I thought it was all rating battles, which was what caused me worry. You're right, though. I missed the "certain" caveat.
 

Hulavuta

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As a counterpoint, maybe this will make creativity more important to punch holes into specfic weaknesses of major shared teams.
Yeah, I agree with this actually. From what I understand in VGC teams become pretty much public domain after tournaments anyway, so people prepare for the stuff shown anyway. I wasn't really referring just to this, I meant more in general. I guess we're already sort of used to this with PS importables though.

Knowing the meta enough to at least have a good team (and create it on-cart, even back when genning was a thing), has always been a small barrier that I think is actually healthy.
I agree, even though I rarely make my own teams. I was referring more to being able to breed, since there will always be RMTs and sample teams and such out there, even if you can't instantly use them. I think it'll be a good thing in the long run though, once we all get used to it.
 
ProjectTitan313 afaik the no mega stone rule only applies to VGC, singles and doubles will still allow them. Only thing is that now you get mega stones with battle points, and they cost 64 battle points each x_x. I hope I can use my Pokebank battle points Ive been storing for Janurary, or else Im gonna have to go on one hell of a battle tower binge lol.
Oh, ok. No matter, I think we're all fucking professionals at slaughtering wave after wave of MegaKhan by now.
That is an improvement honestly. Garchompite on ORAS is obnoxious as fuck, and I'd like to easily obtain multiple copies of Mega stones without cloning / trading. I have 3 Charizard-Y in my box, 3 Altaria, 4+ Khan, 6 Mence, COUNTLESS Alakazam, etc.
I also have like 5000 BP rotting right now. I maison on my lunch breaks at work all the time, so I rack up a lot of streaks and fucktons of BP.
So I am 100% sexually aroused by BP for Mega Stones.
 

cant say

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Chances are we'll be able to get at least some of the stones without actually needing to hoard Battle Points so you may not need to go on such a huge farming session. Otherwise for the ones you need to buy you can prioritize them with like Kang/Gengar/Blaziken/Mence first, then like Mawile/Zard X and Y/Garde/Heracross/Slowbro/Venusaur/Lucario second, everything else afterwards if/when you need them. The ability to buy more than one Mega Stone will definitely be convenient though.
You forgot Beedrill smh
 

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