STABmons Viability Ranking

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I haven't faced or used any of those enough to have an opinion except M-Blastoise. Mega Launcher Origin Pulse is really strong and difficult to switch into, and it threatens both Sableye and Gengar with OHKOs if they want to switch into Rapid Spin. It has the bulk to check many powerful attackers, living a single hit from them at +1 or +2 and OHKOing back with Origin Pulse, and it can switch into and devastate several walls that don't resist Water. However, it can't switch into very many offensive mons, lacking the bulk to take two hits, and it doesn't outspeed much. Finally, it still loses to Chansey, as well as mons that resist water and that it can't hit super-effectively with Dark Pulse and Aura Sphere. It can take on a Meloetta switching in with Dark Pulse, but it still loses one on one and tends to come out heavily damaged or paralyzed.

Overall, it's a very powerful offensive spinner that suffers from difficulty switching into offensive mons and lack of longevity in general, lacking the bulk to stomach repeated attacks. I'd say it fits right into B.


As far as things that should be unranked, I can only think of Blissey, as it's 100% outclassed by Chansey.

I also think Ursaring should rise to B or B-, as even with lack of any longevity, it's a very powerful FakeSpeeder that stomps most defensive cores with Facade, Play Rough, and Close Combat.
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
I think in general, a lot of things are more viable now that diggers is gone because of less opportunity cost. Fake speeders are generally much easier to deal with now, so more frail offensive pokemon have a better chance to shine.

Disclaimer: I've never used most of these mons, this is mostly theorymon

My opinions:

C: despite having good bulk, mono Water typing is pretty bad in STABmons, and Blastoise has no reliable recovery, so it doesn't function very well as a tank. It could still work well as an offensive rapid spinner though as nothing can block it without risking getting knocked out by Origin Pulse / Dark Pulse.
C+: Houndoom doesn't have many opportunities to switch in safely, but if it does manage to get in it'll be able to deal a ton of damage. It has access to Nasty Plot and Sunny Day to boost its power, and it has Dark Void to help it against both offensive and defensive threats. Overall it functions nearly identically to Darkrai, except its slightly slower but has dual STABs.
B- / C+: Suicune would be great if it wasn't for the fact that Thundurus is on every other team. Because of its bulk, its impossible for it to be revenge killed by fakespeeders. If you have something on your team that can reliable take out Thundurus, then Suicune has a lot of opportunities to set up and roll over the opponent's team.
B / B+: Crawdaunt is just a really great stallbreaker. With Swords Dance / Dragon Dance, it can roll over some of the top physical walls in the meta, including Landorus-T, Scizor Mega, Quagsire, and Skarmory. Its a bit slow so it doesn't function as well against offense as it does stall, but Dragon Dance and Water Shuriken can help alleviate that somewhat.
I'm not sure about this one, but I definitely think it should be looked into. It has the potential to rip apart balance teams with its high speed and boost capabilities. Spore also makes it a lot harder for both offensive and defensive teams to deal with it in general. Of course, coverage is always an issue with Serp, as its movepool is shit outside of Leaf Storm. I'm also not sure how often it'll be able to set up to sweep, as it will be forced out often by fake speeders and its damage is really bad unboosted.
C+: I can see this working as a stallbreaker and hazard setter, but I feel like there's stuff that can do that better. Its bulk is eh, even with intimidate. Its atk is ok. So is its speed. To me it seems like its just a bit lacking in every category, but still usable.
I have no idea what to rank this, but this thing is very bulky. Very. On both sides. Its a good stop to Scrappy normal spam too as Mummy negates Scrappy. Only problem is lack of recovery.
If only it could boost its speed. Scarf Eruption seems okay, but with a Stealth Rock weakness I don't know how effective that would be. Without Scarf its way too slow and easily revenge killed.
A- / A:
This is a great offensive check to Thundurus, as it resists flying and is immune to electric. It has nice speed and really high special attack. Overall, functions very similarly to Thundurus, but it lacks the utility and speed of Prankster, and can't really go mixed / physical.
C+: This could even go lower, really. I don't see what it does now that Keldeo is banned. Flying weakness is terrible. Electric resist is pretty pointless if its weak to flying. The only thing it really does is wall Azumarill. Otherwise, it takes too much damage from neutral hits and doesn't do much back.
C+ / B-: Now that Diggers is gone, Aggron functions much better as a physically defensive tank. It can avoid a 3HKO from defensive Landorus Earthquake. Simply put, Aggron's physical bulk is ridiculous. It can offer a lot a valuable team support, like reliably setting up rocks and t-waving enemies. Put together with wish support Aggron is really tough to take down.

+6 252+ Atk Kangaskhan Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 186-220 (54 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
lol

That's all I got for now
 
A- Gains spore which is huge. Ask Ellipse for this one, he uses it a lot.
B I agree it should move down. It's at B- what?! It should stay where it is or move to B rank. I have used it a lot, and while it is powerful with seed flare and sludge wave, a lot of top threats in the meta beats it. However it still is good and does not deserve to be C rank. It checks almost everything that does not have super effective moves or is at charizard level power, especially the common fairy, water and fighting types. It also has very underestimated power, able to ohko the likes of sableye and aerodactyl, and does 70% to the likes of landorus-t and gyarados.
To A or A+
These are now the 3 best fakespeeders and bellyspeeders, and so should be up here similar to the three best gale wing users in aaa. None are dominant enough to be S but they all are defining pokemon.
 
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InfernapeTropius11

get on my level
Serperior --> A-
Spore buys so many set up opportunities and it has amazing speed. Contrary Leaf Storm is a great move that increases in power every time you use it (for 3 turns anyway, at which point you are at 4x SpA) and can completely blow past counters if it gets some boosts, and a little luck with Sleep. It also discourages Sticky Web, which is good for Offensive teams, as well as Defog (to an extent) as while it doesn't get an Attack boost like Bisharp, it does get an Evasion boost which means if you are lucky you can nab that extra kill (so it's pretty good on hazard stacking teams as well).

Blastoise-Mega --> B
Pretty good offensive spinner and wallbreaker with STAB Mega Launcher boosted Origin Pulse. It can usually take a hit and Spin with its decent bulk, and Mega Launcher boosted coverage round out its movepool allowing it to beat or hurt some Pokemon. It can afford to invest in bulk because it is pretty slow, and full SpA boosted Origin Pulse does hurt, works pretty well on Rain teams and with Wish support, B Rank seems good for it.

Houndoom-Mega --> B-
It is pretty good on Sun teams, as it hits really hard with Night Daze, and Especially Blue Flare. It also has access to Nasty Plot to sweep, Taunt+WoW to stallbreak, a great 115 speed tier and Parting Shot to grab momentum for teammates. Solar Power-boosted, Sun-boosted fully invested Modest Blue Flare can even always 2HKO 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey o.o If it can do that to the best special wall, that's power (admittedly you lose speed without Timid, but Timid still has a 41.8% chance to 2HKO after Rocks). Usually Sun teams prefer Zard-Y, but MegaDoom is a viable option as a nuke. And accuracy drops from Night Dave are annoying for the opponent, especially if they rely on something like Stone Edge/Bolt Strike with shaky accuracy already ;)

Cofagrigus --> B-
Cofagrigus fits B Rank perfectly imo. Now that Diggersby is dead (RIP in Bunny) he can take away the ability that makes two of the next three best FakeSpeeders viable (Scrappy, for Kangaroo mama and Doge) and if they only run Normal/Fighting coverage they are screwed. It has great physical bulk and WoW, and Pain Split for recovery. It also has other utility options such as Toxic Spikes, Hex, Destiny Bond, Haze, Disable, or even Shadow Force for Toxic stalling/lefties recovery. Pretty good answer to FakeSpeeders, B- Rank seems good for it, although I think C+ could work too.

Chandelure --> C
Not much to say really. It gains Blue Flare for a better STAB, is a solid sun nuke, but kinda slow and weak to Rocks (well, pretty much every entry hazard really, it hates them all ;_;) brings it down. C Rank seems a good place for it as it packs plenty of power.

Crawdaunt --> B+
This is an amazing wallbreaker. It gets Adaptability, two good boosting moves in Swords Dance and Dragon Dance, solid STABs in Crabhammer, Crunch, Knock Off, and Water Shuriken, and good coverage in Poison Jab and Superpower. Great wallbreaker, and can now hit you with a priority move with up to 75 BP. If it gets an SD up and a little luck, it can even sweep with Water Shuriken. It is slow, but Water Shuriken/Dragon Dance solve that issue.

Thundy-T --> A
Other people have summarized this pretty well, I agree with them, good Thundy-I counter for Offensive teams, great SpA, good STABs in Thunderbolt/Oblivion Wing, and momentum with Volt Switch. Also has great coverage. Solid Pokemon that fits A Rank well.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
To A or A+
These are now the 3 best fakespeeders and bellyspeeders, and so should be up here similar to the three best gale wing users in aaa. None are dominant enough to be S but they all are defining pokemon.
A+ for the Scrappymons. At least A for Braviary.

I'd also like to see Ursaring come back up.

I'll review the list I submitted recently and make some determinations soon.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Proposals:

N/A -> B
Bulk, powerful Origin Pulses, bad Speed, mediocre coverage
N/A -> C

Solid Speed and Special Attack, utility+offense, middling bulk
N/A -> C+

Solid bulk and typing, CroCune is viable
(mega) N/A -> C-

Good Speed and Attack, utility+offense, struggles with Flyers
N/A -> C-

Technician Storm Throw is its best niche, very predictable
N/A -> B-

WALLBREAKER!
N/A -> A-

Important Speed tier, Spore, Contrary Leaf Storm but bad coverage
N/A -> C-

Packs Dark utility, good pivot, competes with most other Dark-types
N/A -> D

Mummy to ability-block FakeSpeeders, otherwise???
N/A -> C-

Strong Eruptions but SR is annoying, Blue Flare/Trick
N/A -> B+

Beats its own forme, can go offensive or defensive, good stallbreaker
C -> B-

Best Attack of any FakeSpeeder but worn down easily with Guts and is slow
B+ -> A+

ScrappyDrum, FakeSpeed, ScrappySpin, stronger, slower Kanga
A -> A+

ScrappyDrum, FakeSpeed, ScrappySpin, stronger, slower Doge
A- -> A

FakeSpeeder with Bird coverage, suffers from SR
N/A -> C

Fast Boomburster, good coverage, Scarf/Specs are decent
C- -> D

Outclassed except in Speed
C- -> C+

Great Aero/Landorus check
C -> N/A

Outclassed except in bulk which isn't that important for its role
C+ -> B-

Great stallbreaker, really fast and high Special Attack so it's not outclassed by Sableye
C+ -> D

Doesn't offer enough to warrant use over nearly every other Mega/Bouncer/Dark-type
B- -> C+

Bulky and strong but easily beaten by a lot of top threats
B- -> B+

The epitome of adapting with the metagame, lols at Belly Drum
B+ -> A-

Superb supporter with an offensive presence, all 3 abilities are great
A+ -> A or A-

Played around with WW, Taunt, usually only gets one shot to be effective
S- -> A+

Overwhelmed by big threats like Aero, Landorus, still offers amazing utility and offense for most teams
N/A -> C
Reliable bulk but no recovery and competes with mega slot too often
 
Eevee General - I agree with all of those bar Raikou. I've been using this on more and more teams and it's just great on offensive teams with Landorus-T. The two form a powerful glue, with Landorus-T softening physical blows and Raikou stomaching the special hits. They're a great pair because they pressure the opponent with U-turn / Volt Switch and provide a lot of the utility for every team they're on. It faces competition offensively from Thundurus, and defensively from Zapdos, but it's much better on offense if you're looking for a glue to hold your team together. Very good Pokemon, actually, and I'd really like to see it moved up. Nobody else seems to be using it, and I don't really know why. Assault Vest Raikou it the MVP of my team at the moment, and it's being insanely underrated. What real flaws does it have? No other Electric-types fulfill its role. Thundurus and Zapdos carry a Stealth Rock weakness, Magnezone is too slow, Heliolisk isn't bulky at all, and the only other Electric-type on the list is Jolteon. If anything, I'd like to see Jolteon becoming unranked, not Raikou. If anything, I'd like to see Raikou in B- thanks to its excellent glue capabilities, high Speed stat, and nice overall bulk and typing.

Another Pokemon I would like to see higher, of all things, is Ditto. Now hear me out, because I'm sure this is kinda crazy, but I feel that Ditto is an A Rank Pokemon right now. Who would've thought?! It's so great at soft checking BellySpeeders and turning the tide of a match in one flip. It's an excellent "save me" button and I've been running into them more lately. At the moment, I would say Ditto is influencing the metagame in that it makes BellySpeeders wary of setting up because they know they can get revenge killed in return. What other Pokemon can hold that title? This may be jumping the gun or even just shooting too fast, but I think it's not too farfetched or an unreasonable change. B+ or A- is fine, too, lol. Its only flaw is its low HP and inability to directly switch into things, but it's always been an underdog and I'm really liking it at the moment.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Eevee General - I agree with all of those bar Raikou. I've been using this on more and more teams and it's just great on offensive teams with Landorus-T. The two form a powerful glue, with Landorus-T softening physical blows and Raikou stomaching the special hits. They're a great pair because they pressure the opponent with U-turn / Volt Switch and provide a lot of the utility for every team they're on. It faces competition offensively from Thundurus, and defensively from Zapdos, but it's much better on offense if you're looking for a glue to hold your team together. Very good Pokemon, actually, and I'd really like to see it moved up. Nobody else seems to be using it, and I don't really know why. Assault Vest Raikou it the MVP of my team at the moment, and it's being insanely underrated. What real flaws does it have? No other Electric-types fulfill its role. Thundurus and Zapdos carry a Stealth Rock weakness, Magnezone is too slow, Heliolisk isn't bulky at all, and the only other Electric-type on the list is Jolteon. If anything, I'd like to see Jolteon becoming unranked, not Raikou. If anything, I'd like to see Raikou in B- thanks to its excellent glue capabilities, high Speed stat, and nice overall bulk and typing.

Another Pokemon I would like to see higher, of all things, is Ditto. Now hear me out, because I'm sure this is kinda crazy, but I feel that Ditto is an A Rank Pokemon right now. Who would've thought?! It's so great at soft checking BellySpeeders and turning the tide of a match in one flip. It's an excellent "save me" button and I've been running into them more lately. At the moment, I would say Ditto is influencing the metagame in that it makes BellySpeeders wary of setting up because they know they can get revenge killed in return. What other Pokemon can hold that title? This may be jumping the gun or even just shooting too fast, but I think it's not too farfetched or an unreasonable change. B+ or A- is fine, too, lol. Its only flaw is its low HP and inability to directly switch into things, but it's always been an underdog and I'm really liking it at the moment.
Can you give me some more specific examples of how Raikou outclasses other Electrics? I'm still getting a jack-of-all-trades master-of-none vibe. Maybe it shouldn't be unranked, but I don't think it should move up either.
 
Can you give me some more specific examples of how Raikou outclasses other Electrics? I'm still getting a jack-of-all-trades master-of-none vibe. Maybe it shouldn't be unranked, but I don't think it should move up either.
Oh, I didn't mean to imply that it's outclassing them aha. I'm just saying that it's not directly outclassed either, because no other Electric-types fit its general role.
 

InfernapeTropius11

get on my level
I think what unfixable is saying is that they all perform different roles. Heliolisk/Jolteon are glass cannons, Zapdos is a wall, Thundurus is an attacker, while Raikou fits the bill as a bulky attacker who is a good member of Volt-Turn Bulky Offense teams--none performs the same role as it, and it performs its own role well enough to be ranked at the very least.

EDIT: Sniped by the man himself
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
The way I see Raikou is a bulky (and by bulky I mean not frail) attacker that checks a lot of stuff. It's somewhat outclassed in offensive roles, but it holds the niche of being the best mono-electric type that doesn't require a mega slot (Manectric). This is pretty important for checking Thundurus, as it resists electric unlike Zapdos, and isn't SR weak like Thundy-T and Rotom-H.
 
I have some more nominations for pokemon that are currently unranked:
A
Magic Bounce and great utility. Can hold off from mega evolving too.
A
The stallbreaker is amazing and really anti-meta
B+
Tail glow and bulky with good coverage
B+
Doesn't gain much but still volt switches around like in ou
B+
An ok suicide lead, doesn't really gain much
B+
Gets oblivion wing and aeroblast, can run life orb which is really good against stall or assualt vest which is deceptively bulky.
B+
The strongest fire type with v-create and also can use extremespeed
B
Rain Swift swimmer
B
Same as above
B
Cool mon that can wear things down with u-turn, but is hurt by stealth rocks.
B
Very powerful, can easily stallbreak with a movepool containing encore, taunt and calm mind with perfect psychic/ghost/fighting coverage
B
Excellent sweeper but is hurt by the common landorus-t and mega aerodactyl
B-
Rain swift swimmer
B-
Good defensive mon but is pretty passive
B-
Its an ok wallbreaker, can potentially sweep if fakespeeders are taken out
B-
Cool assualt vest set, can get past fighting resists with ice punch and poison jab and knock off. Can run a life orb sheer force set
B-
Can wall belly drum sweepers and tank fighting moves
C+
Powerful origin pulse and can spin but is very slow
C+
Powerful but slow, some cool support moves like stealth rock, spikes and will-o-wisp
C+
Can sweep with quiver dance if fakespeeders are taken out, kinda match-up based
C+
A good dragon dancer with life orb sheer force
C+
Powerful with adaptability, and lays toxic spikes
C+
Powerful but mostly outclassed by thundurus, raikou, mega manectric etc
C+
A cool defogger, keeps up momentum with parting shot
I also have some nominations for pokemon to move up and down.
C -> B- It's a fast electric type, allowing it to excellently check thundurus on offensive teams. It does struggle against stall, but volt switch lets it keep momentum, along with hp ice to deter ground type switch ins. You can run specs for more power, although it often requires some prediction. Assualt vest helps it be a general check to many mons in the tier, and calm mind leftovers is viable and can allow it to sweep. Not an amazing mon, but is better than most of C rank, so I think it should go to B-
C+ -> B+ Has a strong SD set that can't be revenged by FakeSpeed, although there is the possibility of them outplaying the sucker punch. It is also barely ever seen, and with the keldeo ban there are very few things that can stop its sweep once it gets up an sd. It can also pursuit trap things like latios, and deters defog.
A -> A+ Amazing typing that checks a lot, and is very powerful with its band set with strong priority to boot.
B+ -> A The life orb set easily beats stall and is an amazing hole puncher. Also can check normal types bar scrappyspeeders. Really underused and underestimated.
B -> A- It's a fast and strong attacker that has access to rapid spin. It has excellent coverage with water ice and psychic, and analytic boosts on switches allow it to do things like 2HKO Chansey.
B- -> B+ Another powerful pokemon with access to rapid spin. Sand Rush sets are very good despite being uncommon and it cannot be revenged by FakeSpeed. Shift gear sets are also viable.
C -> B- Generally outclassed by landorus-t, but is a good mixed wall with the valuable niche of being able to block volt turn. (Except from rotom forms) It is also the only pokemon in the game that can counter physical thundurus, giving it a good niche on stall teams.
A+ -> S Has a huge amount of power and is versatile, see my other post.
B- -> B+ Spore and a strong grass attack that doesn't half its power make mega sceptile amazing. Practically everything not named chansey or jirachi just dies to it.
C- -> B- Can run strong band sets and dd sets, both get dragon's ascent/brave bird, it can run inner focus to beat fakespeed, pretty decent all round.
C -> S Best HO Lead in the game, also can run a life orb 4 attacks set which destroys offense.
C -> A+ Can also effectively set up hazards although it cannot run offensive sets like deo-s.
A- -> A+ One of the best 3 fakespeeders now that diggersby is gone.
A -> A+ read above
B+ -> A+ read above
D -> B+ Rain is viable and this is one of the best swift swimmers, definitely not a gimmick.
A- -> A The better of the two unaware pokemon, and magic guard is also viable with calm mind sets.
B- -> A- One of the best checks to scrappy drum sweepers and setup in general.
A- -> A Strong and fast, can get past most of its typical counters like heatran, ferrothorn, scizor, chansey with a moveslot change, can defog and lunar dance.
B+ -> A- walls a huge amount of stuff and has great utility with glare and rapid spin, along with power and versatility with boomburst and its great coverage.
C+ -> B Very strong and can 2hko things like skarmory, can use ice punch to beat landorus, and gets mach punch for priority.
C -> B+ The most powerful fakespeeder but gets worn down very very quickly.
C+ -> A An excellent sweeper with nasty plot and 3 out of a 4 of dark void, sludge bomb, focus blast and a dark stab. sub nasty plot sets are viable too.
D -> B- This is better than D rank but I don't have very much experience so im just putting it in B- rank with fellow trapper goth. They trap different things though.
C -> C+ Is a strong life orb attacker that can run 4 attacks mixed, sd, or nasty plot equally effectively.
C- -> B- Has a niche for being the most consistent sticky web setter, able to set it up on many top tier threats such as fakespeeder, as well as setting spikes.
D -> C-
Is actually nb now that it has recovery and can keep up momentum with u-turn. It also can use moves such as heal bell and glare.
S+ -> A+ Diggersby is gone now, leaving belly drum sweepers and muricabird which landorus-t cannot wall to replace it. The majority of threats in the meta right now are special, and many of the physical threats such as mega scizor, thundurus, mega aerodactyl, azumarill, and gyarados to name a few beat it. It is a very good physical wall that can also hit back hard, but it isn't the 2nd best pokemon in the game anymore.
A+ -> A- It can run CB or SD or SG which are all good sets, but it lacks the bulk of mega scizor and is worn down far easier.
A -> A- Not as good as normal tyranitar because it can't hold an item and takes up a mega slot.
B -> C- Too frail to setup on anything and is revenged by fakespeeders
C+ -> C- Can't setup on anything except weak physical attackers and is easily walled by water and steel types.
B -> C Not very effective at very much really.
All of these -> Unranked
All of these are outclassed by something else and should not be used at all.
Whew, that was a long post...
 
Some of those are very questionable, Pagoose. A lot of the nominations are reflecting the OU Viability Thread, or so it seems. I've never actually seen half of them. Mega Sableye is probably a B+ threat, not A. Mew is kinda okay, likely B? Not A for sure though. Manaphy, Mega Manectric, Mamoswine, Tornadus-T, Entei, Kingdra, Mega Swampert, Mega Alakazam, Mega Pinsir, Omastar, Alomomola, Mega Sharpedo, Conkeldurr, Mega Aggron, Mega Camerupt, Volcarona, Feraligatr, Dragalage, and Mandibuzz are Pokemon I have honestly never seen once, or maybe just a few times... Besides that, Mega Beedrill is kinda mediocre. Mega Blastoise should be higher than that, and so should Thundurus-Therian. Where exactly are you getting these nominations from? Do you have any replays of these in action? I'm not sold on... well... any of them really. Most of them seem outclassed by various other things. I've yet to test those, so I could try them out and report back, but I'm just a bit sketchy atm.

Agree with Raikou. Bisharp is kinda being overselled, and B- is probably a large enough boost for it. It faces issues with mind games and I find it hard to set up unless the opponent has a Latios / Latias. Agree with Azumarill. Gengar seems a bit high with ScrappySpeed everywhere, but I could see it in A-. Why Starmie over Greninja? Or even Mega Blastoise? Excadrill rise I agree with. Hippo as well, and Landorus. M-Sceptile, Braviary, Kangaskhan, and Stoutland as well. And Clefable, Latios, Ditto, Porygon2, Ursaring I also agree with. However, I'm not sold on the other ones. Dragonite is mediocre, and I've actually been liking Salamence a bit more lately. Deoxys-Speed is definitely not S Rank, where did that even come from? o_o? It's not the best HO lead in STABmons, and it's incredibly easy to stop. With much more ways to remove hazards, it's not even great. Definitely disagree there. Same with Deoxys-D. Do you have replays of Rain? I've used it once, but never seen it, and you have a Rain thing going on. Seems sketchy with FakeSpeed limiting it, and Kabutops is mediocre out of Rain. Rain requires too much support in STABmons to be worth it. Mega Medicham is strong, but I'd not use it over Terrakion tbh. Don't like it very much, but B- might be good for it! Darkrai is certainly not an A Rank threat. Dark Void is so widespread now, and its only niche is being a fast Parting Shot with offensive presence. In the B Rank? Sure, but not A. Wobbufet idk. Why use Infernape over Charizard? Too high for Shedinja, but C Rank is a good placement. Dunno about Furfrou.

Landorus-Therian is S+ Rank as well, imo. You said it yourself, the majority of threats are physical, and Landorus-Therian is a great check to them all. It's a great Pokemon and is very defining in STABmons. Don't mind the Scizor drop, I don't use it much over Mega Scizor, but Choice Band is a neat set so A Rank if anything. Mega Tyranitar I'd agree with dropping, but it's pretty good still. Espeon is fine where it is. I wouldn't mind a drop, because Sableye can beat it anyways and that diminishes its Shell Smash niche. Stored Power is sexy though. No opinion on Cloyster. Zapdos is actually pretty sick, and it has pretty nice bulk, it's fine exactly where it is. Shuckle is kinda mediocre, but I guess it has a niche in uhhh Heal Order? Choice Band Ninjask is pretty sick, too, so it shouldn't be unranked. Probopass still has a niche, and I love it :3. Jolteon is bad. Cincinno is okay, but it shouldn't be unranked. Bouff should be unranked. I've used it before and it's terrible. Flareon isn't too bad. Very powerful, but so easy to wear down. Blissey has a niche in beating Landorus over Chansey, but I don't mind where it goes tbh. I'd not use it over Chansey.

A-
B+

N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A
C+
N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A
B
N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A

B-
B-
A+

A-
B
B
B-
S
B+
C-
C
C
A+
A+
A+

D
A
A-
A
A-
B-
B+
B-
N /A
C
C
N/A

S+
A
A-
B
C-
B
D
Unranked
 
Some of those are very questionable, Pagoose. A lot of the nominations are reflecting the OU Viability Thread, or so it seems. I've never actually seen half of them. Mega Sableye is probably a B+ threat, not A. Mew is kinda okay, likely B? Not A for sure though. Manaphy, Mega Manectric, Mamoswine, Tornadus-T, Entei, Kingdra, Mega Swampert, Mega Alakazam, Mega Pinsir, Omastar, Alomomola, Mega Sharpedo, Conkeldurr, Mega Aggron, Mega Camerupt, Volcarona, Feraligatr, Dragalage, and Mandibuzz are Pokemon I have honestly never seen once, or maybe just a few times... Besides that, Mega Beedrill is kinda mediocre. Mega Blastoise should be higher than that, and so should Thundurus-Therian. Where exactly are you getting these nominations from? Do you have any replays of these in action? I'm not sold on... well... any of them really. Most of them seem outclassed by various other things. I've yet to test those, so I could try them out and report back, but I'm just a bit sketchy atm.

Agree with Raikou. Bisharp is kinda being overselled, and B- is probably a large enough boost for it. It faces issues with mind games and I find it hard to set up unless the opponent has a Latios / Latias. Agree with Azumarill. Gengar seems a bit high with ScrappySpeed everywhere, but I could see it in A-. Why Starmie over Greninja? Or even Mega Blastoise? Excadrill rise I agree with. Hippo as well, and Landorus. M-Sceptile, Braviary, Kangaskhan, and Stoutland as well. And Clefable, Latios, Ditto, Porygon2, Ursaring I also agree with. However, I'm not sold on the other ones. Dragonite is mediocre, and I've actually been liking Salamence a bit more lately. Deoxys-Speed is definitely not S Rank, where did that even come from? o_o? It's not the best HO lead in STABmons, and it's incredibly easy to stop. With much more ways to remove hazards, it's not even great. Definitely disagree there. Same with Deoxys-D. Do you have replays of Rain? I've used it once, but never seen it, and you have a Rain thing going on. Seems sketchy with FakeSpeed limiting it, and Kabutops is mediocre out of Rain. Rain requires too much support in STABmons to be worth it. Mega Medicham is strong, but I'd not use it over Terrakion tbh. Don't like it very much, but B- might be good for it! Darkrai is certainly not an A Rank threat. Dark Void is so widespread now, and its only niche is being a fast Parting Shot with offensive presence. In the B Rank? Sure, but not A. Wobbufet idk. Why use Infernape over Charizard? Too high for Shedinja, but C Rank is a good placement. Dunno about Furfrou.

Landorus-Therian is S+ Rank as well, imo. You said it yourself, the majority of threats are physical, and Landorus-Therian is a great check to them all. It's a great Pokemon and is very defining in STABmons. Don't mind the Scizor drop, I don't use it much over Mega Scizor, but Choice Band is a neat set so A Rank if anything. Mega Tyranitar I'd agree with dropping, but it's pretty good still. Espeon is fine where it is. I wouldn't mind a drop, because Sableye can beat it anyways and that diminishes its Shell Smash niche. Stored Power is sexy though. No opinion on Cloyster. Zapdos is actually pretty sick, and it has pretty nice bulk, it's fine exactly where it is. Shuckle is kinda mediocre, but I guess it has a niche in uhhh Heal Order? Choice Band Ninjask is pretty sick, too, so it shouldn't be unranked. Probopass still has a niche, and I love it :3. Jolteon is bad. Cincinno is okay, but it shouldn't be unranked. Bouff should be unranked. I've used it before and it's terrible. Flareon isn't too bad. Very powerful, but so easy to wear down. Blissey has a niche in beating Landorus over Chansey, but I don't mind where it goes tbh. I'd not use it over Chansey.

A-
B+

N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A
C+
N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A
B
N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A
N/A

B-
B-
A+

A-
B
B
B-
S
B+
C-
C
C
A+
A+
A+

D
A
A-
A
A-
B-
B+
B-
N /A
C
C
N/A

S+
A
A-
B
C-
B
D
Unranked
Some of them do reflect the viability list for the ones I haven't used, namely mamoswine, mega camperupt, conkeldurr and feraligatr. I have used all of the others, some not very much like manaphy, but the majority of them I have used a decent amount. I think mega sableye is good enough for a because of the ability to block most hazards, along with an excellent typing and a huge support movepool such as will-o-wisp, knock off, parting shot and many others. It also can choose when to mega evolve, allowing it make excellent use of its support movepool before mega evolving when it wants the extra bulk/magic bounce. Think of it like a normal sableye with the ability to gain a ton more bulk and free auto-taunt when it wants. With mew, I really think the stallbreaker set is worth A rank. It is really hard to switch into other than heatran or mega sableye, as nothing likes to take a will-o-wisp or a knock off. Taunt allows it to beat more passive pokemon and wear them down with will-o-wisp. I have used all of these ones: Mega Manectric, Tornadus-T, Entei, Kingdra, Mega Swampert, Mega Alakazam, Mega Pinsir, Omastar, Alomomola, Mega Sharpedo, Mega Aggron, Volcarona, Dragalage, and Mandibuzz, and I stand by them. I can get some replays if you want them, but I don't currently have any. I have seen mamoswine used by random ladder players, and yes I have basically taken the ou ranking because it does exactly the same thing in ou. I've Mega Camperupt was used by w0rd when it came out as it was decent. Conkeldurr is also based on ou, so if someone else has experience with it and has a better ranking that would be good. Feraligatr is only recently viable due to the release of sheer force, and I thought it would fit in that rank. When I used Blastoise I found it pretty mediocre, but if you think it is B then I'll agree with you. I don't think thundurus-t should be any higher than C+ though, as it is outclassed by other electrics imo, but I have seen it used by eevee general so I ranked it.

Starmie is so high because it is a fast and powerful spinner, although I do think maybe A was a little high. Dragonite gets a rise because it can run a really powerful choice band set with spammable moves like dragon's ascent and extremespeed with a ton of power:
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 171-202 (44.7 - 52.8%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 220-261 (62.5 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
It can also run dragon dance sets that cannot be chipped away at with fake out until death, due to inner focus and being able to use its own extremespeed. This makes it a better DDer than salamence imo.
For deoxys-s, what is a better suicide lead? Anyway, the lead isn't the only reason for the high ranking. It can also run an offensive set with 4 attacks. The set looks something like this:
Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 44 Atk / 252 SpA / 212 Spe
Naive Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Ice Beam
- Superpower
- Knock Off/Hidden Power Fire

It outspeeds everything in the game, has amazing coverage and is powerful enough to dent things with psycho boost. Both the sets in combination are what make it so good. Maybe A+ instead of S though, and I will get replays for this too. Explaining the rain thing: I used rain when I first started playing stabmons because it was super easy to build, and it was good. I sort of collectively stuck all the rain mons in B+ or B because they're all pretty similar. I think darkrai is deserving of A rank because it can poke holes in teams with dark void and nasty plot. It can run sub nasty plot to take advantage of dark void and bad dreams to wear down would be counters and setup a sweep, or just run nasty plot 2 attacks, or even drop dark void and run nasty plot 3 attacks. Klang has also been using a specs set that is extremely powerful. Charizard is better than infernape but it takes up a mega slot and its only being nominated for C+ anyway not A. Sheninja is the best sticky web setter but C is fine.

On Landorus-T, I think that it doesn't wall very many top threats. For example, looking S and A ranks, it walls regular Scizor, kinda walls regular aerodactyl, walls talonflame, walls terrakion, walls most tyranitars, and thats it. It can run offensive sets, namely scarf, but scarf is not and S+ rank threat, not even S imo. I honestly think Landorus-T is overrated and doesn't deserve to be that high. There's also the fact that since it has such high usage, that people change their sets specifically to deal with it, so it becomes less effective. For example, I run HP Ice on SG aegislash to beat landorus-t, gliscor and garchomp, so it is unable to counter it. Other pokemon like tyranitar can do the same thing. Choice band ninjask is outclassed by talonflame so it should just be unranked imo. Whats Probopass's niche?

Final note, should I get replays for all the pokemon I nominated like mega manectric tornadus-t etc?
 

EV

Banned deucer.
My responses Pagoose unfixable

Totally forgot about this little guy. I'm thinking A- since without Prankster he's overwhelmed if he misses an important WOW or Dark Void since he can't recover until the following turn after the opponent attacks again. The option to not mega evolve until you've paved the way to setup Calm Minds is really unique, but then your build is split between standard Prankster Sableye and setup Mega Sableye. As a Magic Bouncer in general he's fantastic and under the right conditions is hard to take down (like setup Clefable in OU).
Stallbreaking is nice and all and Mew certainly has variety in spades, but I don't see this as A material. Dark is pretty prevalent (faster Darks especially like Darkrai, Greninja, and Sableye who stomp Mew) and defensive stallbreaking isn't nearly as potent right now as offensive so I don't see Mew providing the same oomph for its team as say Thundurus, Gengar, or Aerodactyl. I don't see it breaking out of B.
Why run this over Greninja? Tail Glow is cool but you're hopelessly vulnerable to the metagame's faster threats like Aero and Thundurus who will make a snack out of Manaphy. Nasty Plot Greninja is 1 boost shy of Tail Glow but is faster and more powerful thanks to Protean. I don't see a reason to list Manaphy.
I see no reason to list Mega Manectric when non-mega Electrics can Volt Switch around already without taking your slot. Unlisted.
Mamoswine has some nice anti-meta cred thanks to Ice and a strong Attack. However, Kyurem trumps it in that regard. As a lead I'd rather use Garchomp with its better Speed and bulk. That leaves Mamo outclassed in both roles ... though it might have some niche as a combination of both. I could see it going in C or C-.
Why would I use this over Thundurus ever? It has one more weakness and doesn't hit nearly as hard. Assault Vest is nice with Regenerator but there goes any power it could flaunt for some extra (unneeded in my eyes) bulk. I'd rather use LO to pivot with Regenerator, making it a pseudo faster Thundurus but without the nifty Electric-typing and STAB. I really can't see the draw though, except for the higher Speed, since Regenerator's appeal is somewhat negated by the recovery granted from Oblivion Wing. And as a physical attacker it's still outclassed because of Thundurus's higher Attack and Defiant. Maybe D?
"The strongest fire type with v-create and also can use extremespeed." Do you mean the strongest Fire-type with V-create and Extreme Speed? Except Flareon can do that and has more power. The next strongest straight-up V-creator would be Charizard-X. Even Zard-Y is stronger than Entei with Drought. And there's Darm ... Entei is definitely not the strongest, though it has nice Speed (tied with the Zards) and Extreme Speed is cool to mitigate the stat drops. I guess he's kind of like Raikou--outclassed here and there but a bulk(ish) standby in case you want a well-rounded mon that lacks some of the drawbacks with the others (Zards have no priority, Darm relies on choice items, Flareon is slower than Jam and relies on Guts.) C?
Rain is deadly and could be used more. If Azumarill and Ferrothorn didn't exist this could be a much bigger threat ... I just don't think it's worth that rank. It would imply that rain is more centralizing than it is currently and right now it has next to no presence in STABmons. If it caught on I could see the use of ranking Kingdra. For now, unlisted.
Same as above
Mega Beedrill is a prime example of how STABmons can unleash a Pokemon's true potential. With stupidly strong Megahorns and Gunk Shots, Adaptability is finally tested to its fullest potential. And yet ... how potent is Bug/Poison coverage? Poor if you ask me and resisted by 4 of the 6 current S-rank Pokemon who can beat it 1 on 1 no sweat. The saving grace is a good Speed and U-turn but yeah you're gonna want Stealth Rocks gone. Should you use Mega Beedrill over another mega? Probably not. D rank imo.
Trace is cool and does the same thing for it in STABmons as standard OU/UU. The prevalence of Dark keeps most Psychics at bay but Encore can play around Sucker Punch shenanigans. Its high Speed is tantalizing for tying (or beating) Mega Aero and revenging other threats. Priority is too common to make Speed enough of a factor, however, and Alakazam's bulk is about as useful as eggshells for body armor. Regular Alakazam is a better revenger with Magic Guard sash. I think C or C- is better for this one.
Dies to the omnipresent influx of Flyers. Outclassed in nearly any regard. Unlisted.
See Kingdra.
Way too passive considering it's a Water-type which gives the best mon in the game (Thundurus) a free turn to do whatever. Don't give it any free turns. Unlisted.
I'd rather use Crawdaunt. Too frail to make Speed Boost relevant. Unlisted.
This I agree with! B- is probably a good place to start it.
I prefer my proposal at C.
It's as fast as Diggersby, which was fast enough most of the time to kill shit without Extreme Speed. It competes with Starmie as an offensive spinner but excels in the raw power department with Origin Pulse. I like B.
It shouldn't be utilizing its cool support options, it should be straight-out attacking with Sheer Force Blue Flares and Earth Powers. That Speed is so gross though. D.
One thing to note is Flame Body can make a FakeSpeeder think twice about revenging it. Coverage-wise it's beaten handily by Heatran who can Roar it out or Toxic stall it unless it has HP Ground. That Bug-typing is mighty appetizing for all our Flying-types however and that +1 Speed is hardly relevant when Aerodactyl shows up to tank your STAB or any coverage you're packing and blows you up with Diamond Storm which won't activate Flame Body. Substitute Aero with the Landos except they will activate Flame Body with Dragon Ascent/Brave Bird unless its special OW Landorus-I. C-.
Generally outclassed by Azumarill as a physical Water-type though Sheer Force and a usable Speed is cool. Azu's Speed woes are solved by Shell Smash, however, and its strong priority. Water is a good offensive type, so I could see him coming in at C to get started.
D
. Too slow. Toxic Spikes aren't great with all the Flying and Steel-types running around plus Defogging and Spinning is easy. Adaptability is the only reason I'd consider it.
I don't see this outclassed by Raikou because it has more power and a better ability. It's different than Raikou. I prefer to give it bulk, but all-out special attacking sets are potent. It performs differently than its Incarnate forme in that regard as a slower, stronger attacker but by no means should be in C. I stand by B+.
Agreed. C+.
C -> B- I was underselling Raikou. I can see it moving up. Momentum is really important in this meta.
C+ -> B+ I think I can agree with it moving up. B+ is too high though. B- for now.
A -> A+ I don't know how it got better suddenly. I feel it's solid A.
B+ -> A The problem is that nearly all FakeSpeeders right now are Scrappy barring Braviary, which Gengar still can't safely switch into because Dragon Ascent will hurt or it will Shell Smash and then Dragon Ascent for the OHKO. I don't want to weigh him versus the FakeSpeeders because of those reasons, so let's just consider his offensive and stallbreaking presence. In that regard it loves to switch into Chansey to setup since Chansey can't touch it if it carries Taunt (and it should if it's switching into her.) It likes to spook Clefable as well. It shuts down non-Knock Off Gliscor, Ferrothorn (burn will mitigate Gyro Ball), it can burn Azumarill before Smash/Drum and I think it survives Water Shuriken, can deal with most Quagsires, fucks up Skarm, and tackles most Porygon 2s. That's a nice list of things it checks, but I don't see A yet. A-.
B -> A- Unlike Gengar, Starmie has a harder time escaping Dark-types since it doesn't run Substitute nor does it threaten them with a burn because Scald will provoke Sucker Punch. The Analytic stuff is cool to deter spinblocking and it has more coveted coverage than Greninja. Still, Greninja threatens whatever Starmie would thanks to Protean and Dark Void, so I find Starmie too outclassed to be in A. B+.
B- -> B+ Oh if only it outsped Kangaskhan! I think Mold Breaker is just as good if not better than Sand Rush. Pair it with an attacker that wants the Rotoms/Clefable gone. The Steel/Ground typing is cool for sponging most Thundurus sets and it doesn't mind some Scizors if you give it Swords Dance to outpace Roost. I like B right now.
C -> B- Yeah Hippo is a bit underrated. It sponges FakeSpeed (can live +6 Kanga Espeed iirc and Whirlwind out), lays Rocks or Spikes, and may even serve as a decent Aero check with Stone Edge or a predicted EQ on their Roost (risky). I can live with this.
A+ -> S It's probably time for him to go back up. Setup sets are stupidly good especially with Substitute. +4 Dragon Ascent 2HKO's Skarmory (it didn't have WW fsr). And it can afford a setup move/Sub/2 attacks since Flying/Ground pair so well together. S-.
B- -> B+ I tried this on an offensive FWG core and was not impressed. Spore's predictable. Seriously, if you see a Grass-type assume it's going to Spore you. I even tried running mixed to bop stuff like Charizard-Y and Heatran, but it was played around because it just didn't hit hard enough. I see more use as a fast Dragon than a fast Grass since it pops Zard-X, the Latis, non-sub Kyurem, and Garchomp. Maybe fast SubSeed as well? Offensive Grass isn't that alluring to me I guess. I can sit with B tho.
C- -> B- Two good abilities. Both work well with setup. Coveted Flying STAB. Fuck, even a mixed set to troll Landorus or Togekiss? B- is too high of a jump. C+.
C -> S Very underrated but I've yet to see it perform at its fullest potential. Its deceptively "sturdy", in that it doesn't die as easily as you'd think. Psychic is just a hard sell right now, since even if it packs Superpower it dies to Sucker Punch. I will do B.
C -> A+ A better lead than we're letting on tbh. Hazard stacking is not a bad strategy in STABmons and it has a decent Speed stat for Taunting other leads plus it can wear down FakeSpeed with a Rocky Helmet and it has Recover. B+.
A- -> A+ I'm not buying A+ yet. I stand by A.
A -> A+ Yes
B+ -> A+ Yes
D -> B+ It has more uses outside rain than the other Swift Swimmers I shot down. But I find it outclassed most of the time. Undecided.
A- -> A Yeah if you don't plan a way to remove Clefable, your setup is as good as useless. Agreed.
B- -> A- Might as well. Agreed.
A- -> A Dragon isn't as terrible offensively as one might think, but even if it does shift a coverage move it's typically reducing its overall utility. I find it good at A- still.
B+ -> A- I suggested this so I'm behind it.
C+ -> B Undecided.
C -> B+ I had B- but I think B.
C+ -> A Hugely underrated right now. I had B- but I'll do B+.
D -> B- Taunt bait to the letter. This is giving Gengar/Thundurus/Greninja a free turn to swoop in, Taunt it, and setup. D.
C -> C+ Versatile and has a lot of toys to play with. I can buy this.
C- -> B- I don't like relying on something to switch-in and check shit if it dies to hazards automatically. That is not reliable. C-.
D -> C-
I kinda see this moving actually. It's like a dedicated physical Porygon 2 but with no offensive presence. U-turn/Baton Pass is good. I'll take this.
S+ -> A+ No way. This guy hasn't been a dedicated defensive stop for a while now. It's an amazing Scarfer, which lets it revenge Thundy and Aero with Stone Edge. It can run Sub+setup like its other forme really well. I find myself throwing it into a VoltTurn core on most my teams and I just love how easy it is to scout, throw up Rocks, and attack all on one set. Still too good, even if it's competing against itself with the Incarnate forme for a teamslot.
A+ -> A- I suppose ... though I still like Choice Band. Maybe A?
A -> A- Oh but it doesn't need an item. Great Pursuit trapper. Awesome bulk. I think it's as good as regular Tyranitar still. A.
B -> C- Yeah I have yet to be threatened by this. It was a huge threat last gen but damn, without a sash it dies in a blink and without a Plate it gets chased out by a lot of things. C- is too harsh though. C+?
C+ -> C- Poor Cloyster. It really misses King's Rock. Agreed.
B -> C I disagree, though I think the hype has worn off. It's a bulkier Thundurus (same base Special Attack) without the utility of Prankster/Taunt. Physical builds like to check Scizor. It can handle Landorus-I fairly well. C is underselling it. B- is probably good.
All of these -> Unranked They have niches, though is that enough to keep them around? Blissey's selling point is Item+Transform if Ditto's tiny HP is too much of a turn-off. Bouffalant carries Soundproof or Sap Sipper for certain reasons. Flareon is too powerful to unlist imo. Shuckle can probably go. Sorry unfixable but Probopass has one selling point over Magnezone (Earth Power) and it's not even STAB. I say get rid of it. Jolteon usually tries to use Electrify+Volt Absorb+Setup, but that's pretty predictable. Undecided.
 
On a separate note, I'd like to notion for Terrakion to move up to A Rank. At the moment, it's a beast. With ScrappySpeed being a prominent thing right now, Terrakion is a great choice to come in as a soft check. Even 252+ Kangaskhan cannot OHKO after Stealth Rock. Meanwhile, Close Combat easily KOes it. There's also Diamond Storm, which has the chance to raise Defense, even furthering its ability to check Normal-types. Terrakion can also run Hidden Power Ice in its filler slot, which is really open to anything. Terrakion's high Speed, decent bulk, great STAB combination, and great power make me feel it is deserving of a raise.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
On a separate note, I'd like to notion for Terrakion to move up to A Rank. At the moment, it's a beast. With ScrappySpeed being a prominent thing right now, Terrakion is a great choice to come in as a soft check. Even 252+ Kangaskhan cannot OHKO after Stealth Rock. Meanwhile, Close Combat easily KOes it. There's also Diamond Storm, which has the chance to raise Defense, even furthering its ability to check Normal-types. Terrakion can also run Hidden Power Ice in its filler slot, which is really open to anything. Terrakion's high Speed, decent bulk, great STAB combination, and great power make me feel it is deserving of a raise.
Taunt, Drain Punch, Power-Up Punch, Sub+Punch, High Jump Kick, Rock Blast, Head Smash, Swords Dance ... What can't it do?? Get past Fairies for one. Quagsire for two. But it is still really good. Plus I *think* it can come in after a Mega Aero kill and threaten if Aero lacks EQ since Dragon Ascent is neutral and Diamond Storm is resisted.
 
Taunt, Drain Punch, Power-Up Punch, Sub+Punch, High Jump Kick, Rock Blast, Head Smash, Swords Dance ... What can't it do?? Get past Fairies for one. Quagsire for two. But it is still really good. Plus I *think* it can come in after a Mega Aero kill and threaten if Aero lacks EQ since Dragon Ascent is neutral and Diamond Storm is resisted.
Indeed, it's very good @_@! Quagsire is actually 2HKOed by Close Combat, so not even that! Togekiss / Azumarill / Diancie are all OHKOed by Diamond Storm / Close Combat as well. Hell, Clefable is 2HKOed by Diamond Storm. Dragon Ascent, however, does KO it :(. The best check is Slowbro, but even that can be worn down. Terrakion is really, really powerful aha.
 
Tyranitar A => A+/S- Rank (Whichever you think is best). With great STAB sucker punch and diamond storm this pokemon becomes very good in the STABmons metagame. It also can get moves like precipice blades because larvitar and pupitar are ground types. Diamond storm with it's chance to boost defence can lead to a lot of bulk if sandstorm is up. It also benefits well from both weakness policy and life orb. It also works well with Scizor/Mega Scizor because it counters Mega Char Y
 
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Tyranitar A => A+/S- Rank (Whichever you think is best). With great STAB sucker punch and diamond storm this pokemon becomes very good in the STABmons metagame. It also can get moves like precipice blades because larvitar and pupitar are ground types. Diamond storm with it's chance to boost defence can lead to a lot of bulk if sandstorm is up. It also benefits well from both weakness policy and life orb. It also works well with Scizor/Mega Scizor because it counters Mega Char Y
I'd support raising Tyranitar to A+ because I feel it is doing well in the current metagame with Sand being a bit more common than it previously was. Don't think it's quite S- Rank yet, but Tyranitar is certainly a good Pokemon.
 
My responses Pagoose unfixable
Totally forgot about this little guy. I'm thinking A- since without Prankster he's overwhelmed if he misses an important WOW or Dark Void since he can't recover until the following turn after the opponent attacks again. The option to not mega evolve until you've paved the way to setup Calm Minds is really unique, but then your build is split between standard Prankster Sableye and setup Mega Sableye. As a Magic Bouncer in general he's fantastic and under the right conditions is hard to take down (like setup Clefable in OU).
Stallbreaking is nice and all and Mew certainly has variety in spades, but I don't see this as A material. Dark is pretty prevalent (faster Darks especially like Darkrai, Greninja, and Sableye who stomp Mew) and defensive stallbreaking isn't nearly as potent right now as offensive so I don't see Mew providing the same oomph for its team as say Thundurus, Gengar, or Aerodactyl. I don't see it breaking out of B.
Why run this over Greninja? Tail Glow is cool but you're hopelessly vulnerable to the metagame's faster threats like Aero and Thundurus who will make a snack out of Manaphy. Nasty Plot Greninja is 1 boost shy of Tail Glow but is faster and more powerful thanks to Protean. I don't see a reason to list Manaphy.
I see no reason to list Mega Manectric when non-mega Electrics can Volt Switch around already without taking your slot. Unlisted.
Mamoswine has some nice anti-meta cred thanks to Ice and a strong Attack. However, Kyurem trumps it in that regard. As a lead I'd rather use Garchomp with its better Speed and bulk. That leaves Mamo outclassed in both roles ... though it might have some niche as a combination of both. I could see it going in C or C-.
Why would I use this over Thundurus ever? It has one more weakness and doesn't hit nearly as hard. Assault Vest is nice with Regenerator but there goes any power it could flaunt for some extra (unneeded in my eyes) bulk. I'd rather use LO to pivot with Regenerator, making it a pseudo faster Thundurus but without the nifty Electric-typing and STAB. I really can't see the draw though, except for the higher Speed, since Regenerator's appeal is somewhat negated by the recovery granted from Oblivion Wing. And as a physical attacker it's still outclassed because of Thundurus's higher Attack and Defiant. Maybe D?
"The strongest fire type with v-create and also can use extremespeed." Do you mean the strongest Fire-type with V-create and Extreme Speed? Except Flareon can do that and has more power. The next strongest straight-up V-creator would be Charizard-X. Even Zard-Y is stronger than Entei with Drought. And there's Darm ... Entei is definitely not the strongest, though it has nice Speed (tied with the Zards) and Extreme Speed is cool to mitigate the stat drops. I guess he's kind of like Raikou--outclassed here and there but a bulk(ish) standby in case you want a well-rounded mon that lacks some of the drawbacks with the others (Zards have no priority, Darm relies on choice items, Flareon is slower than Jam and relies on Guts.) C?
Rain is deadly and could be used more. If Azumarill and Ferrothorn didn't exist this could be a much bigger threat ... I just don't think it's worth that rank. It would imply that rain is more centralizing than it is currently and right now it has next to no presence in STABmons. If it caught on I could see the use of ranking Kingdra. For now, unlisted.
Same as above
Mega Beedrill is a prime example of how STABmons can unleash a Pokemon's true potential. With stupidly strong Megahorns and Gunk Shots, Adaptability is finally tested to its fullest potential. And yet ... how potent is Bug/Poison coverage? Poor if you ask me and resisted by 4 of the 6 current S-rank Pokemon who can beat it 1 on 1 no sweat. The saving grace is a good Speed and U-turn but yeah you're gonna want Stealth Rocks gone. Should you use Mega Beedrill over another mega? Probably not. D rank imo.
Trace is cool and does the same thing for it in STABmons as standard OU/UU. The prevalence of Dark keeps most Psychics at bay but Encore can play around Sucker Punch shenanigans. Its high Speed is tantalizing for tying (or beating) Mega Aero and revenging other threats. Priority is too common to make Speed enough of a factor, however, and Alakazam's bulk is about as useful as eggshells for body armor. Regular Alakazam is a better revenger with Magic Guard sash. I think C or C- is better for this one.
Dies to the omnipresent influx of Flyers. Outclassed in nearly any regard. Unlisted.
See Kingdra.
Way too passive considering it's a Water-type which gives the best mon in the game (Thundurus) a free turn to do whatever. Don't give it any free turns. Unlisted.
I'd rather use Crawdaunt. Too frail to make Speed Boost relevant. Unlisted.
This I agree with! B- is probably a good place to start it.
I prefer my proposal at C.
It's as fast as Diggersby, which was fast enough most of the time to kill shit without Extreme Speed. It competes with Starmie as an offensive spinner but excels in the raw power department with Origin Pulse. I like B.
It shouldn't be utilizing its cool support options, it should be straight-out attacking with Sheer Force Blue Flares and Earth Powers. That Speed is so gross though. D.
One thing to note is Flame Body can make a FakeSpeeder think twice about revenging it. Coverage-wise it's beaten handily by Heatran who can Roar it out or Toxic stall it unless it has HP Ground. That Bug-typing is mighty appetizing for all our Flying-types however and that +1 Speed is hardly relevant when Aerodactyl shows up to tank your STAB or any coverage you're packing and blows you up with Diamond Storm which won't activate Flame Body. Substitute Aero with the Landos except they will activate Flame Body with Dragon Ascent/Brave Bird unless its special OW Landorus-I. C-.
Generally outclassed by Azumarill as a physical Water-type though Sheer Force and a usable Speed is cool. Azu's Speed woes are solved by Shell Smash, however, and its strong priority. Water is a good offensive type, so I could see him coming in at C to get started.
D
. Too slow. Toxic Spikes aren't great with all the Flying and Steel-types running around plus Defogging and Spinning is easy. Adaptability is the only reason I'd consider it.
I don't see this outclassed by Raikou because it has more power and a better ability. It's different than Raikou. I prefer to give it bulk, but all-out special attacking sets are potent. It performs differently than its Incarnate forme in that regard as a slower, stronger attacker but by no means should be in C. I stand by B+.
Agreed. C+.
C -> B- I was underselling Raikou. I can see it moving up. Momentum is really important in this meta.
C+ -> B+ I think I can agree with it moving up. B+ is too high though. B- for now.
A -> A+ I don't know how it got better suddenly. I feel it's solid A.
B+ -> A The problem is that nearly all FakeSpeeders right now are Scrappy barring Braviary, which Gengar still can't safely switch into because Dragon Ascent will hurt or it will Shell Smash and then Dragon Ascent for the OHKO. I don't want to weigh him versus the FakeSpeeders because of those reasons, so let's just consider his offensive and stallbreaking presence. In that regard it loves to switch into Chansey to setup since Chansey can't touch it if it carries Taunt (and it should if it's switching into her.) It likes to spook Clefable as well. It shuts down non-Knock Off Gliscor, Ferrothorn (burn will mitigate Gyro Ball), it can burn Azumarill before Smash/Drum and I think it survives Water Shuriken, can deal with most Quagsires, fucks up Skarm, and tackles most Porygon 2s. That's a nice list of things it checks, but I don't see A yet. A-.
B -> A- Unlike Gengar, Starmie has a harder time escaping Dark-types since it doesn't run Substitute nor does it threaten them with a burn because Scald will provoke Sucker Punch. The Analytic stuff is cool to deter spinblocking and it has more coveted coverage than Greninja. Still, Greninja threatens whatever Starmie would thanks to Protean and Dark Void, so I find Starmie too outclassed to be in A. B+.
B- -> B+ Oh if only it outsped Kangaskhan! I think Mold Breaker is just as good if not better than Sand Rush. Pair it with an attacker that wants the Rotoms/Clefable gone. The Steel/Ground typing is cool for sponging most Thundurus sets and it doesn't mind some Scizors if you give it Swords Dance to outpace Roost. I like B right now.
C -> B- Yeah Hippo is a bit underrated. It sponges FakeSpeed (can live +6 Kanga Espeed iirc and Whirlwind out), lays Rocks or Spikes, and may even serve as a decent Aero check with Stone Edge or a predicted EQ on their Roost (risky). I can live with this.
A+ -> S It's probably time for him to go back up. Setup sets are stupidly good especially with Substitute. +4 Dragon Ascent 2HKO's Skarmory (it didn't have WW fsr). And it can afford a setup move/Sub/2 attacks since Flying/Ground pair so well together. S-.
B- -> B+ I tried this on an offensive FWG core and was not impressed. Spore's predictable. Seriously, if you see a Grass-type assume it's going to Spore you. I even tried running mixed to bop stuff like Charizard-Y and Heatran, but it was played around because it just didn't hit hard enough. I see more use as a fast Dragon than a fast Grass since it pops Zard-X, the Latis, non-sub Kyurem, and Garchomp. Maybe fast SubSeed as well? Offensive Grass isn't that alluring to me I guess. I can sit with B tho.
C- -> B- Two good abilities. Both work well with setup. Coveted Flying STAB. Fuck, even a mixed set to troll Landorus or Togekiss? B- is too high of a jump. C+.
C -> S Very underrated but I've yet to see it perform at its fullest potential. Its deceptively "sturdy", in that it doesn't die as easily as you'd think. Psychic is just a hard sell right now, since even if it packs Superpower it dies to Sucker Punch. I will do B.
C -> A+ A better lead than we're letting on tbh. Hazard stacking is not a bad strategy in STABmons and it has a decent Speed stat for Taunting other leads plus it can wear down FakeSpeed with a Rocky Helmet and it has Recover. B+.
A- -> A+ I'm not buying A+ yet. I stand by A.
A -> A+ Yes
B+ -> A+ Yes
D -> B+ It has more uses outside rain than the other Swift Swimmers I shot down. But I find it outclassed most of the time. Undecided.
A- -> A Yeah if you don't plan a way to remove Clefable, your setup is as good as useless. Agreed.
B- -> A- Might as well. Agreed.
A- -> A Dragon isn't as terrible offensively as one might think, but even if it does shift a coverage move it's typically reducing its overall utility. I find it good at A- still.
B+ -> A- I suggested this so I'm behind it.
C+ -> B Undecided.
C -> B+ I had B- but I think B.
C+ -> A Hugely underrated right now. I had B- but I'll do B+.
D -> B- Taunt bait to the letter. This is giving Gengar/Thundurus/Greninja a free turn to swoop in, Taunt it, and setup. D.
C -> C+ Versatile and has a lot of toys to play with. I can buy this.
C- -> B- I don't like relying on something to switch-in and check shit if it dies to hazards automatically. That is not reliable. C-.
D -> C-
I kinda see this moving actually. It's like a dedicated physical Porygon 2 but with no offensive presence. U-turn/Baton Pass is good. I'll take this.
S+ -> A+ No way. This guy hasn't been a dedicated defensive stop for a while now. It's an amazing Scarfer, which lets it revenge Thundy and Aero with Stone Edge. It can run Sub+setup like its other forme really well. I find myself throwing it into a VoltTurn core on most my teams and I just love how easy it is to scout, throw up Rocks, and attack all on one set. Still too good, even if it's competing against itself with the Incarnate forme for a teamslot.
A+ -> A- I suppose ... though I still like Choice Band. Maybe A?
A -> A- Oh but it doesn't need an item. Great Pursuit trapper. Awesome bulk. I think it's as good as regular Tyranitar still. A.
B -> C- Yeah I have yet to be threatened by this. It was a huge threat last gen but damn, without a sash it dies in a blink and without a Plate it gets chased out by a lot of things. C- is too harsh though. C+?
C+ -> C- Poor Cloyster. It really misses King's Rock. Agreed.
B -> C I disagree, though I think the hype has worn off. It's a bulkier Thundurus (same base Special Attack) without the utility of Prankster/Taunt. Physical builds like to check Scizor. It can handle Landorus-I fairly well. C is underselling it. B- is probably good.
All of these -> Unranked They have niches, though is that enough to keep them around? Blissey's selling point is Item+Transform if Ditto's tiny HP is too much of a turn-off. Bouffalant carries Soundproof or Sap Sipper for certain reasons. Flareon is too powerful to unlist imo. Shuckle can probably go. Sorry unfixable but Probopass has one selling point over Magnezone (Earth Power) and it's not even STAB. I say get rid of it. Jolteon usually tries to use Electrify+Volt Absorb+Setup, but that's pretty predictable. Undecided.
Actually, I completely forgot about greninja. I always run 4 attack mixed sets and forgot it can do that. Agree on unlisted, mistake on my part. Although manaphy is more powerful the extra speed makes greninja way better.
Mega manectric is similar to raikou but different and in ways better enough to warrant a rank. It has the advantage of way more speed, which is very important. It outspeeds pokemon like regular aerodactyl, talonflame, gyarados at +1, mega pidgeot, scarf magnezone and tyranitar. It also has a useful ability in intimidate, making it bulkier than it appears. It also allows it to check mega scizor, outspeeding some variants even at +2 and ohkoing with a fire move. It can also get past ferrothorn without any trouble, unlike raikou. Obviously there is an opportunity cost in using it because it is a mega evolution, but it isn't outclassed by anything and so deserves a rank imo. I realise I was being kinda overeager with my rankings, so maybe B-; in the same rank as raikou for now?
I really disagree with B rank for this, especially considering you want unranked and D for manectric and tornadus. I would ask the same question you asked about tornadus-t: Why would I use this over thundurus, ever? Thundurus-T is extremely outclassed by normal thundurus. While it is slightly more powerful, it loses that vital 10 speed in the most important speed tier in the game. I really don't see a reason to use this over thundurus, unlike mega manectric or tornadus-t, not to mention that mega manectric itself along with raikou also outclasses thundurus-t. It can run bulky sets with assault vest I guess, but they are outclassed by assault vest tornadus-t, due to speed, regenerator and better utility moves. It's kinda similar to blissey; not bad, but just completely eclipsed by similar pokemon. Honestly I thought I was being generous with C+.
Sort of on the opposite end on thundurus-t; It is slightly less powerful, but gains important speed. The main reason for running it over the more powerful thundurus is assault vest. It is deceptively bulky, and can do things like switch into landorus-i:
252 SpA Life Orb Landorus Oblivion Wing vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 87-105 (29 - 35.1%) -- 12.8% chance to 3HKO
40 SpA Tornadus-T Oblivion Wing vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 118-139 (36.9 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Tornadus-t can switch into many special threats such as pokemon such as gengar, landorus-i, starmie and serperior for example. It's sort of like the bulky thundurus-t you ran except much faster, better utility and regenerator, which is very important in staying healthy. B rank seems appropriate to me.
Sorry, I should've been clearer about this. What I meant is that entei is one of the best fire types, due to a combination of powerful v-create, extremespeed and coverage moves, and no opportunity cost. Charizard X, Y and Flareon may be stronger, but they are either mega pokemon, or in the case of flareon, gets worn down way too quickly and is very slow.
Rain is stronger than you're letting on. For example, azumarill is cleanly 2hko'd and defensive ferrothorn has a chance to be 2hko'd with rocks:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Origin Pulse vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill in Rain: 214-252 (53.3 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 156-185 (44.3 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Rain teams are very powerful and I think the main abusers of rain deserve B rank.
But it traps stuff with shadow tag, so its not really taunt bait. I suppose its taunt bait after it kills something, but by then its already done its job. Maybe C rank but it isn't a gimmick so it shouldn't be D rank imo.
I totally agree that it isn't reliable for switching into pokemon, but it's not meant to be. Its job is to be a suicide lead early game and get up sticky web. Because it naturally walls like half the stuff in the game, it can usually get up a layer of spikes too. If they do lead with something that can keep it to only sticky web, then you can always switch it out and bring it back in on a double. It has a solid niche as a reliable sticky web suicide lead, not a switch in for extremespeeders and the like, although it does use it for setup bait. Maybe C.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Changes
N/A -> A-
N/A -> B
N/A -> B-
N/A -> C-

N/A -> B

N/A -> B-

N/A -> D
N/A -> C
N/A -> B-
N/A -> C
N/A -> B
N/A -> D
N/A -> C-
N/A -> C
N/A -> D
N/A -> B+
N/A -> C+

C -> B-
C+ -> B-
B+ -> A-
B -> B+
B- -> B
C+ -> B-
A+ -> S-
B- -> B
C- -> C+
C -> B
C -> B+
A- -> A
A -> A+
B+ -> A+
D -> C-
A- -> A
B- -> A-
B+ -> A-
N/A -> B-
C -> B
C+ -> B+
D -> C
C -> C+
C- -> C
D -> C-
A+ -> A
B -> C+
C+ -> C-
B -> C-

(I was saying I wanted this higher but on second consideration I think it's outclassed by Thundurus. While it maintains more natural bulk, Thundurus-T with an Assault Vest is bulkier, faster, and stronger. The plus of running Zapdos is Leftovers+Roost, Roar, and maybe Heatwave.)
All of these -> Unranked

N/A -> C
N/A -> C+
(mega) N/A -> C-
N/A -> C-
N/A -> B-
N/A -> A-
N/A -> C-
N/A -> D
N/A -> C-
N/A -> C
C- -> D
C- -> C+
B- -> C+
A+ -> A
S- -> A+

A- -> A
A -> A+
 
Last edited:

InfernapeTropius11

get on my level
Changes
N/A -> A-
N/A -> B
N/A -> C
N/A -> C-

N/A -> B

N/A -> B-

N/A -> D
N/A -> C
N/A -> B-
N/A -> C
N/A -> B
N/A -> D
N/A -> C-
N/A -> C
N/A -> D
N/A -> B+
N/A -> C+

C -> B-
C+ -> B-
B+ -> A-
B -> B+
B- -> B
C -> B-
A+ -> S-
B- -> B
C- -> C+
C -> B
C -> B+
A- -> A
A -> A+
B+ -> A+
D -> C-
A- -> A
B- -> A-
B+ -> A-
C+ -> B-
C -> B
C+ -> B+
D -> C
C -> C+
C- -> C
D -> C-
A+ -> A
B -> C+
C+ -> C-
B -> C-

(I was saying I wanted this higher but on second consideration I think it's outclassed by Thundurus. While it maintains more natural bulk, Thundurus-T with an Assault Vest is bulkier, faster, and stronger. The plus of running Zapdos is Leftovers+Roost, Roar, and maybe Heatwave.)
All of these -> Unranked

N/A -> C
N/A -> C+
(mega) N/A -> C-
N/A -> C-
N/A -> B-
N/A -> A-
N/A -> C-
N/A -> D
N/A -> C-
N/A -> C
C- -> D
C- -> C+
B- -> C+
A+ -> A
S- -> A+

A- -> A
A -> A+
I saw you moved Infernape higher and clicked like :3
On a more serious note, I agree with pretty much everything. The only thing I might change is Cofagrigus --> C- as it removes Scrappy, and thus walls BD Doge/Kangaroo that rely on only Espeed/Drain Punch for coverage but D seems OK for it as if it really gets that threatening to those Pokemon they can simply carry Crunch instead.
 
I saw you moved Infernape higher and clicked like :3
On a more serious note, I agree with pretty much everything. The only thing I might change is Cofagrigus --> C- as it removes Scrappy, and thus walls BD Doge/Kangaroo that rely on only Espeed/Drain Punch for coverage but D seems OK for it as if it really gets that threatening to those Pokemon they can simply carry Crunch instead.
I don't think that's fair, mainly due to this:

+6 252+ Atk Kangaskhan Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 255-301 (79.9 - 94.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Cofagrigus flat out dies after SR + a tiny bit of damage, and you're likely not carrying two Ghost-types unless it's for a specific reason, thus making Scrappy not even useful anymore. It soft checks, and is risky at that because it's so easy to wear down. D is fine imo.
 

InfernapeTropius11

get on my level
I don't think that's fair, mainly due to this:

+6 252+ Atk Kangaskhan Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 255-301 (79.9 - 94.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Cofagrigus flat out dies after SR + a tiny bit of damage, and you're likely not carrying two Ghost-types unless it's for a specific reason, thus making Scrappy not even useful anymore. It soft checks, and is risky at that because it's so easy to wear down. D is fine imo.
If it gets a safe switch, it can both remove Scrappy and wisp it, thus allowing another physical wall to come in and beat it (doesn't necessarily have to be Ghost typed), but yeah, D is fine as it is severely crippled after that, and needs to be saved until after one has set up to come in and soft check it.
 
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