STABmons Viability Ranking

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I'd like to make a few nominations:

Bibarel to Low B Rank

I feel this is a great pokemon, but almost everyone who uses it uses it incorrectly. I tried it out, and it definitely does not disappoint. Bibarel's selling point is its simple + shell smash capabilities, being able to put a team away in a hurry, which usually doesn't happen, so most of the time it can baton pass its boosts out into a powerful sweeper. But the thing about Bibarel is that it provides enormous pressure. When you're picking your lead, you can basically counterlead what your opponent would bring for bibarel, because they just can't risk it setting up and baton passing out. The large majority of the time, your opponent cannot allow Bibarel to set up, letting you either put something for free with lovely kiss or just baton pass out and gain momentum. If you've faced a bibarel, you've probably seen this scenario firsthand (unless you have a ditto)

Also, a +4 Aegislash/+4 Heatran is just terrifying. When that happens it's practically gg, especially with quag gone.

Cobalion

Haven't used this thing, but I looked up, and I don't see the main reason to use Cobalion mentioned: Magnet Rise. Magnet Rise SD sets up all over Landorus-T, the most common physical wall in the tier, something Terrakion cannot do. It also has access to special sets with doom desire/volt switch and shift gear sets. C- or C should be good.

Kyurem
Why is Kyurem moving down? If anything, it should be going up, since the main thing that made it not used was Kyurem-B. I'd say B Rank if anything, due to its newfound ability to set up (unfortunately no teravolt), have a way to break bulky waters better in freeze-dry, and also get some nice physical ice STAB

Bisharp to B or B+ Rank
I don't really understand why this is here; if anything, it's a great pokemon that can punish sableye's parting shot, be a great defogger, can set up with shift gear to put a team away in tandem with some very nice STABs in Knock Off, Gear Grind/Meteor Mash, and Sucker Punch. Dark Void lets it put annoying stuff like Quagsire to sleep if it wants to run that. It also has the nice steel typing, meaning it doesn't simply die to FakeSpeed; Offensively, the Steel STAB lets it easily take care of Unaware Clefable, and has great coverage in Steel/Dark. Oh, and there's also that one thing where you use parting shot against a magic bouncer and get to +3.
Faces alot of competition from Braviary as a Defiant user, but STAB Knock off, the ability to beat clefable, access to sleep, and a resistance to rocks/fakespeed give it a slot as a defog blocker.

I agree with Mega gyarados, that thing is just terrifying, the sub/roost/dd set is soo hard to stop
Agree with Darkrai
Agree with Terrak
Agree with Chomp
Agree with Weavile
Agree with Rotom-W
Agree with Mega Lati
No Comment on Mega Sceptile
No Comment on Jirachi
Disagree with Kyurem (see above)
Disagree with Ursaring (extremely stiff competition from stoutland, kanga, braviary, though guts is good enough for B imo)
Somewhat Disagree with Cobalion (see above)
 
I'd like to nom...

Rhydon to C rank

Rhydon is an excellent physical tank, with 105/120 physical bulk excluding an eviolite, which boosts its defense even higher. Although Rhydon lacks any kind of ability useful for tanks, it does have access to Rock Head, which allows it to maintain offensive presence while still tanking in hits through Head Smash. Also, Rhydon's typing allows it to set up both Stealth Rock and Spikes if necessary. Rhydon is also able to wall practically any FakeSpeeder easily and proceed to force it out with Head Smash or another offensive move; switch in on to a poke's espeed and then kill them as they try to hit rhydon with coverage: +6 252+ Atk Kangaskhan Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Rhydon: 246-290 (59.4 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. However, Rhydon's defensive capabilities are hindered due to its two 4x weaknesses to water and grass, which also happen to generally be special, effectively forcing out rhydon. Also, Rhydon's lack of recovery makes it difficult to survive in battles, generally relying on Wish support or Rest and status healing. Some prominent high-ranking pokes Rhydon walls includes Kangaskhan, Stoutland,Thundurus w/o grass knot, Aerodactyl, Braviary, MegaZard X, and Tyranitar. Due to its excellent physical bulk but lack of recovery and inferior typing, i believe that C is a fair rank for Rhydon.
 
I'd like to nom...

Rhydon to C rank

Rhydon is an excellent physical tank, with 105/120 physical bulk excluding an eviolite, which boosts its defense even higher. Although Rhydon lacks any kind of ability useful for tanks, it does have access to Rock Head, which allows it to maintain offensive presence while still tanking in hits through Head Smash. Also, Rhydon's typing allows it to set up both Stealth Rock and Spikes if necessary. Rhydon is also able to wall practically any FakeSpeeder easily and proceed to force it out with Head Smash or another offensive move; switch in on to a poke's espeed and then kill them as they try to hit rhydon with coverage: +6 252+ Atk Kangaskhan Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Rhydon: 246-290 (59.4 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. However, Rhydon's defensive capabilities are hindered due to its two 4x weaknesses to water and grass, which also happen to generally be special, effectively forcing out rhydon. Also, Rhydon's lack of recovery makes it difficult to survive in battles, generally relying on Wish support or Rest and status healing. Some prominent high-ranking pokes Rhydon walls includes Kangaskhan, Stoutland,Thundurus w/o grass knot, Aerodactyl, Braviary, MegaZard X, and Tyranitar. Due to its excellent physical bulk but lack of recovery and inferior typing, i believe that C is a fair rank for Rhydon.
Isn't Rhydon entirely outclassed by the far surperior Landorus-therian, as it has access to reliable recovery, better typing, offensive presence, momentum and unpredictability?
 
Isn't Rhydon entirely outclassed by the far surperior Landorus-therian, as it has access to reliable recovery, better typing, offensive presence, momentum and unpredictability?
the fact that one poke completely outclasses another does not mean that it is completely inferior. just because something is outclassed by something else does not mean it has no viability at all. if lando-t got banned, rhydon would definitely be at least somewhere on the viability rankings. Also, Rhydon happens to handle FakeSpeeders a lot better than Lando-T, as ice coverage on FakeSpeeders deals heavy damage to it: +5 252 Atk Kangaskhan Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 712-840 (186.3 - 219.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO,+6 252 Atk Kangaskhan Ice/Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Rhydon: 224-264 (54.1 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Rhydon can also deal more damage in return to the FakeSpeeder: 0 Atk Rhydon Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kangaskhan: 244-288 (69.5 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, 4 Atk Landorus-T Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kangaskhan: 216-255 (61.5 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Rhydon also happens to handle MegaZard X a lot better than Lando-T; 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 331-390 (86.6 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO, +1 252+ Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Rhydon: 152-180 (36.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO. Also, if MegaZard Y doesn't run Solarbeam and opts for the mixed set (v-create and blue flare), Rhydon can at least take a hit, unlike Lando-T. Also, even if Lando-T outclasses it, Rhydon does follow the criteria of "C" rank: C rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have some potency in the STABmons metagame. These Pokemon can threaten or check some portions of the metagame but often have large flaws that require more support. They often can only perform well in one role as multiple roles will expose their many flaws. They may have more negative traits than positive.These Pokemon have a hard time adapting with the metagame.
 
the fact that one poke completely outclasses another does not mean that it is completely inferior. just because something is outclassed by something else does not mean it has no viability at all. if lando-t got banned, rhydon would definitely be at least somewhere on the viability rankings. Also, Rhydon happens to handle FakeSpeeders a lot better than Lando-T, as ice coverage on FakeSpeeders deals heavy damage to it: +5 252 Atk Kangaskhan Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 712-840 (186.3 - 219.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO,+6 252 Atk Kangaskhan Ice/Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Rhydon: 224-264 (54.1 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Rhydon can also deal more damage in return to the FakeSpeeder: 0 Atk Rhydon Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kangaskhan: 244-288 (69.5 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, 4 Atk Landorus-T Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kangaskhan: 216-255 (61.5 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Rhydon also happens to handle MegaZard X a lot better than Lando-T; 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 331-390 (86.6 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO, +1 252+ Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Rhydon: 152-180 (36.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO. Also, if MegaZard Y doesn't run Solarbeam and opts for the mixed set (v-create and blue flare), Rhydon can at least take a hit, unlike Lando-T. Also, even if Lando-T outclasses it, Rhydon does follow the criteria of "C" rank: C rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have some potency in the STABmons metagame. These Pokemon can threaten or check some portions of the metagame but often have large flaws that require more support. They often can only perform well in one role as multiple roles will expose their many flaws. They may have more negative traits than positive.These Pokemon have a hard time adapting with the metagame.
I'm going to disregard your first couple sentences because you're wrong, if you want me to address it ask.

Yes, Rhydon has a niche in handling a few mons better than Landrous-T however... Landrous-t has roost which means it can reliably handle a mon throughout the entire match. Rhydon cannot do this. I'm thinking D imo, a few niches but landrous is just... Better.
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
If one pokemon completely outclasses another it literally means it is completely inferior lol. That's basically the definition of outclass. But that's not the point though because Landorus-T doesn't completely outclass Rhydon. I would say C- or something like that, as Rhydon can compensate for its low base attack with high power moves like Head Smash, but the lack of recovery is a big problem.
 
On thing rhydon has over landorus is significantly more bulk and a resistance to normal.

+6 252+ Atk Kangaskhan Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 131-155 (31.6 - 37.4%) -- 89.1% chance to 3HKO

It can even live coverage.

+6 252+ Atk Kangaskhan Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 328-388 (79.2 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

In everything but sheer bulk, Rhydon is outclassed. C- imo.
 
On thing rhydon has over landorus is significantly more bulk and a resistance to normal.

+6 252+ Atk Kangaskhan Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 131-155 (31.6 - 37.4%) -- 89.1% chance to 3HKO

It can even live coverage.

+6 252+ Atk Kangaskhan Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 328-388 (79.2 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

In everything but sheer bulk, Rhydon is outclassed. C- imo.
Yeah, more bulk and normal resistance. But landorous has more qualities over rhydon as well, its only niche ki really that... D imo
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Did these

A -> S
A -> A+
N/A -> C-
B+ -> A-
B -> B+
B -> B+
B -> B+
B- -> B
B+ -> B
A -> A+
A- -> B+
C -> B-
B- -> B
 
Why did Bibarel move up? I didn't see any discussion of it, and I don't really see what's changed to make it more worthy of a higher rank than before.

EDIT: I saw Aesf's post, but nobody really discussed it.
 
Last edited:

EV

Banned deucer.
Ugh this threads needs some love

B+ -> A- or A
Gives stall and offense grief. Dark and Ice are two excellent offensive types, and with 125 Speed it gets the jump on quite a lot. I run LO 4 attacks with lots of success, though adding Dark Void or Parting Shot isn't a bad idea either. With Low Kick it gets SE coverage on a ton of S/A targets, helping it deal out lots of damage to Tyranitar, Heatran, and Mega Gyarados who could come in fairly easily otherwise and scare it.
Summary: Fast, good Attack, useful offensive STABs.

B -> A-
I'm in love with AV right now. It doesn't hit too hard but it's really versatile and a pain to take down. Flying STAB such as OW or Aeroblast and U-turn are mandatory, then you can add Heatwave/Superpower/Knock Off/Grass Knot/Sludge Wave as needed. LO sounds sexy too but I prefer the ability to pivot into certain special attackers, threaten with coverage, and U-turn out or finish them off.
Summary: Fast, mixed attacker, RegenVest makes solid pivot.
 
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