Sun & Moon UU Speculation and Discussion Thread - Updated with UU Alpha!

[Kink]

Any word of when UU Beta will announced?

no we're in silent running mode for the next year.

n_n

we need to wait till january stats come out for OU

 

[Aquadext]

So it appears that Dugtrio-Alola is banned and cannot be used in the Pokebank UU (alpha) meta on PS!, even though it is not said to be banned here. Could someone look into this please?

 

[guan123]

So it appears that Dugtrio-Alola is banned and cannot be used in the Pokebank UU (alpha) meta on PS!, even though it is not said to be banned here. Could someone look into this please?

Apparently PS! thinks that Dugtrio-Alola = Dugtrio. Since Dugtrio is banned from UU, Dugtrio-Alola is banned as well. Dugtrio-Alola should not be banned due to not having Arena Trap (what pushed dugtrio regular over the top).

 

[DiscoDucky]

T

Apparently PS! thinks that Dugtrio-Alola = Dugtrio. Since Dugtrio is banned from UU, Dugtrio-Alola is banned as well. Dugtrio-Alola should not be banned due to not having Arena Trap (what pushed dugtrio regular over the top).

Thanks for explaining.

 

[The Haymaker]

Well, I'd like to vouch for the viability of defensively inclined balance/semi-stall. Balance is tough to play, but if you make use of some key defensive Pokemon that have dropped (like Mew), it's possible to be successful.

After some playing around with Shiinotic, I'd like to say that it (and its shiny) is incredibly underrated. A physically defensive spread is so great at countering Breloom and crippling other formerly major OU threats like DDnite lacking Fire Punch, while still having the special bulk to check Keldeo and most Electric-types. While it unfortunately does not get Regenerator, Effect Spore aids in spreading status, usually to your advantage, and Strength Sap stops so many physical threats in their tracks and heals half or more on almost anything except walls.

AV Guzzlord is an excellent partner for handling strong Psychic-, Ghost-, and Fire-types, especially Zard Y and Gengar, and Empoleon rounds out the core for covering Poison, Steel, Fairy, Ice, and Dragon attacks. Together, they check a majority of the meta, dish out chunks of damage, spread status, and control hazards in three team slots.

Shiinotic/Guzzlord/Empoleon Semi-Stall

Guzzlord @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Wave

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Stealth Rock
- Defog
- Roar

Shiinotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Moonblast
- Strength Sap
- Thunder Wave

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Wish
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Soft-Boiled
- Taunt

Arcanine @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Morning Sun
- Toxic
- Extreme Speed

Here's the sample team I've been testing. It struggles with mixed Kyurem-B, but there's no way it's staying in UU for too long. It's simply too powerful. Empoleon is really the only solid check on this team. The rest of the spots outside of the core fill the gaps, with Blissey for a cleric and catch-all special sponge, Mew for another Fighting resistance, stall-breaking, and general annoyance, and Arcanine for a sturdier physical wall that completes the FWG core. However, I've considered replacing Arcanine for something like Mega Aggron. Any ideas for incorporating a Mega would be appreciated. Overall, the team is already pretty solid though.

Replays

This was the first battle I had with the team, but it best showcases the core and where Shiinotic can really shine.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankuualpha-504004034
Strength Sap is stupidly good
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankuualpha-504548243

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Mega Aggron

Which isn't available. The only stall mega that's currently legal RN is Slowbro IIRC.

 

[The Haymaker]

Which isn't available. The only stall mega that's currently legal RN is Slowbro IIRC.

Which is why I said "something like Mega Aggron," meaning an incredibly bulky 'Mon, especially a Mega, that could take its place since it's unavailable. Sorry if that was unclear. I do believe Slowbro is the only option as far as Megas go, or maybe a bulky MegaDactyl.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Which is why I said "something like Mega Aggron," meaning an incredibly bulky 'Mon, especially a Mega, that could take it's place since it's unavailable. Sorry if that was unclear. I do believe Slowbro is the only option as far as Megas go, or maybe a bulky MegaDactyl.

Mega Steelix IIRC

I'm a lying prick. You could try MegaToise.

 

[guan123]

Bulky MegaDactyl isn't that good tbh. Mega Aerodactyl's best trait is its speed, and using a bulky set diminishes its attack. Plus, are its defenses really that good for bulky?

 

[The Haymaker]

Bulky MegaDactyl isn't that good tbh. Mega Aerodactyl's best trait is its speed, and using a bulky set diminishes its attack. Plus, are its defenses really that good for bulky?

It's good enough to check Fire, Flying, and Bug types. Last gen, there was a Taunt + Roost bulky set that ran two other moves between Toxic, EQ, Stone Edge, or Stealth Rock. The spread was 248 HP / 156 Def / 104 Spe with a Jolly nature to outspeed Crobat. In theory, it's good, but I've never actually tried the set myself.

I've thought about MegaToise, but then I'd probably have to drop Empoleon and add in another Steel type somewhere else.

 

[mertyville]

What are you guys thought on Sun?
Torkoal is the best death fodder I have ever used. I use Explosion to switch in Solar Power Charizard for free without taking Solar Power damage and then nuke stuff until the sun runs out and then go Mega and nuke some more.

Currently I am using

Heat Rock
Bold Nature
248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Explosion
- Fire Blast

Rapid Spin isn't useful because Torkoal won't get it off and if it does, it will be a free turn for your opponent, Toxic made it a Taunt fodder and there were way too many situations I felt nuking something or burning it was more suitable, so I used double fire. The more I use Torkoal, the more I feel I should change it to max speed and SpA with naive nature so it can die quicker, but other games, it came in handy that it was still around so I could sack it to support Victini, pre-Mega Zard and Venusaur with Sun.

 

[Patrick1088]

What are you guys thought on Sun?
Torkoal is the best death fodder I have ever used. I use Explosion to switch in Solar Power Charizard for free without taking Solar Power damage and then nuke stuff until the sun runs out and then go Mega and nuke some more.

Currently I am using

Heat Rock
Bold Nature
248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Explosion
- Fire Blast

Rapid Spin isn't useful because Torkoal won't get it off and if it does, it will be a free turn for your opponent, Toxic made it a Taunt fodder and there were way too many situations I felt nuking something or burning it was more suitable, so I used double fire. The more I use Torkoal, the more I feel I should change it to max speed and SpA with naive nature so it can die quicker, but other games, it came in handy that it was still around so I could sack it to support Victini, pre-Mega Zard and Venusaur with Sun.

Why not Relaxed > Bold? Bold lowers your attack making Explosion less powerful

 

[The Haymaker]

The more I use Torkoal, the more I feel I should change it to max speed and SpA with naive nature so it can die quicker, but other games, it came in handy that it was still around so I could sack it to support Victini, pre-Mega Zard and Venusaur with Sun.

Max HP and max SpA is an option if you want to hit harder, but there is no reason to run max speed with that pitiful of a Speed stat. If you wanted to do that, you might as well just use Ninetails at that point and vacate SR to another team member.

Also, I added another replay that showcases the usefulness of Strength Sap.

 

[Vengeance417]

Flygon @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Fire Punch

I've been using DD Dragonium-Z Flygon with quite a bit of success. Since Flygon itself isn't all that strong even at +1, it's nice to have access to a really powerful, one-time Dragon STAB at 190 BP without being locked in to it. This helps it OHKO certain Pokemon at +1 that it normally wouldn't be able to, such as Keldeo, Intimidate Staraptor, Mega Blastoise after rocks (with Jolly, is complete dead with Adamant), Serperior (needs to lock itself to Outrage to have a chance to kill normally) and much more. Jolly is preferred to be able to outpace Scarf Hydreigon after a Dragon Dance and tie with opposing scarfed 100s at +1, but Adamant's still good for the extra power.

You could also try out Grassium-Z and Solar Beam to murder Quag teams, but that only leaves you with STABs after you use it, and I feel Fire Punch is needed in a Scizor-dominated metagame.

 

[Raidx]

So ive been experimenting with many different z moves and i must say z snatch on honchkrow is pretty cool and its a decent late game cleaner.

Honchkrow @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Snatch
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Sucker Punch

When powered by darkinium z, snatch lets you steal moves such as substitute, roost and basically any setup move while also giving honchkrow +2 speed. This coupled with moxie makes honchkrow a deadly late game sweeper due to moxie boosting its already high attack even higher each kill and its +2 speed allowing it to outspeed basically everything besides some scarf mons. Any thoughts on this set? Also this is my first post btw lolz

 

[guan123]

So ive been experimenting with many different z moves and i must say z snatch on honchkrow is pretty cool and its a decent late game cleaner.

Honchkrow @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Snatch
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Sucker Punch

When powered by darkinium z, snatch lets you steal moves such as substitute, roost and basically any setup move while also giving honchkrow +2 speed. This coupled with moxie makes honchkrow a deadly late game sweeper due to moxie boosting its already high attack even higher each kill and its +2 speed allowing it to outspeed basically everything besides some scarf mons. Any thoughts on this set? Also this is my first post btw lolz

There was a discussion on this in the RU speculation thread. Z-mirror move could also work due to +2 attack. However, not much would want to set up in front of Honchkrow. Also, superpower might be necessary (instead of roost) to break through some flying resists (due to the sucker punch nerf).

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

So to all you lot out there who say Volc(arona) sucks, maybe you should try this:

Volcarona @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast / Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Hurricane
- Quiver Dance

A lot would agree that Volcarona has severe 4MSS, due to the fact that whatever it runs outside of STABs + Quiver Dance will leave it walled by something; sets lacking HP Rock are checked hard by Mega Charizard Y, Dragonite, Salamence, Volcanion, and even the rare SpD Arcanine, while sets lacking Giga Drain struggle with Azumarill, Keldeo, and Gigalith. With Flyinium Z + Hurricane, Volcarona is able to muscle past these Pokemon (except Gigalith...you'll want to switch anyway) without much concern for its coverage. Supersonic Skystrike has perfect accuracy, so for a single turn you get a free Flying-type nuke at 185 BP carefree of Hurricane's otherwise shaky accuracy. While you lose the benefit of Passho Berry to set up more easily against bulky Waters, you gain the ability to smash most of Volcarona's offensive checks very easily after a boost.


+1 252 SpA Volcarona Supersonic Skystrike vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 311-366 (96.2 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Obviously this is factoring Stealth Rock being up; you lose otherwise because of Multiscale

+1 252 SpA Volcarona Supersonic Skystrike vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 374-440 (112.9 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Supersonic Skystrike vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 311-366 (93.9 - 110.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Supersonic Skystrike vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 374-440 (102.7 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Supersonic Skystrike vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 274-323 (92.2 - 108.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Supersonic Skystrike vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Volcanion: 226-267 (62 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Idk what EVs/Items Volcanion would run in the current meta so I just slapped an Assault Vest on it to show you how powerful this is...a non-AV set is almost certainly dying without rocks up.

 

[Kutscher]

what people run on palossand?

 

[Venoxio]

what people run on palossand?

Specs Palossand is a good choice imo, because while it may not hit as hard as some other special attackers, the coverage options it gets are very good and hit most of the types in the game for at least neutral damage, and its special attack is not that bad when invested in. Both of its STAB types are fairly good offensively, and te three main coverage options it gets, which are Giga Drain, Psychic, and Sludge Bomb, all can fit onto a set and kill various threats (water types in Giga Drain's case and Grass types for Sludge Bomb are notable as Palossand is fairly weak to those types.) If you don't want to run Specs, I'd suggest running Life Orb/Leftovers with an offensive set, similar to Specs but with Shore Up. It's a Palossand exclusive version of Recover. All in all, Palossand is a decent offensive mon with good defensive capabilites as well (85/110 on defense side with Water Compaction is good) held back by its low speed stat, so running it on a Trick Room team is good, or giving it speed boosts via Baton Pass or something. Hope that helped :D

(Oh, and AV Palossand also can be a thing to remedy its low SpDef, because it has great physical bulk as well as Water Compaction like I said before. It's Specs set but with less power and more SpDef.)

 

[notewire]

Specs Palossand is a good choice imo, because while it may not hit as hard as some other special attackers, the coverage options it gets are very good and hit most of the types in the game for at least neutral damage, and its special attack is not that bad when invested in. Both of its STAB types are fairly good offensively, and te three main coverage options it gets, which are Giga Drain, Psychic, and Sludge Bomb, all can fit onto a set and kill various threats (water types in Giga Drain's case and Grass types for Sludge Bomb are notable as Palossand is fairly weak to those types.) If you don't want to run Specs, I'd suggest running Life Orb/Leftovers with an offensive set, similar to Specs but with Shore Up. It's a Palossand exclusive version of Recover. All in all, Palossand is a decent offensive mon with good defensive capabilites as well (85/110 on defense side with Water Compaction is good) held back by its low speed stat, so running it on a Trick Room team is good, or giving it speed boosts via Baton Pass or something. Hope that helped :D

I wouldn't really recommend using a specs set, as it doesn't really have the power, spammable moves, or speed for a specs set, from what I've seen palossand's real viability comes from its defensive utility due to its useful resistances and immunities, combined with reliable recovery in shore up, making it a great check to mons like Aero, Snorlax, and Terrakion. It's not the best at the moment since alot of things can overwhelm it but past the beta I think it has alot of potential. I would recommend this set if you wanted to try it out,

Palossand @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shore Up
- Earth Power
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic

Good luck!

 

[Kutscher]

i was using this set before my question:

Palossand @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Shadow Ball
- Giga Drain
- Shore Up

and it wasn't doing anything relevant, i made this set based on the analyses in page 1, but it's being quite disapointing

 

[Patrick1088]

i was using this set before my question:

Palossand @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Shadow Ball
- Giga Drain
- Shore Up

and it wasn't doing anything relevant, i made this set based on the analyses in page 1, but it's being quite disapointing

Phys Def set is great way to go. 100 so attack is okay, but nothing to write home about. Ghost/Ground coverage is good, but leaves you wide open for Hydre. At least toxic gives you a way to do some long term damage.

I'd ypu want a powerful special attacker, try Primarina.

 

[chinaG]

I wouldn't really recommend using a specs set, as it doesn't really have the power, spammable moves, or speed for a specs set, from what I've seen palossand's real viability comes from its defensive utility due to its useful resistances and immunities, combined with reliable recovery in shore up, making it a great check to mons like Aero, Snorlax, and Terrakion. It's not the best at the moment since alot of things can overwhelm it but past the beta I think it has alot of potential. I would recommend this set if you wanted to try it out,

Palossand @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shore Up
- Earth Power
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic

Good luck!

Btw Shore Up heals 100% of max health under Sand.

 

[Samoyed]

Btw Shore Up heals 100% of max health under Sand.

Unfortunately it's just a variation of Moonlight, and heals 66% HP when under sand.

 

[Saria]

BP is unreliable and balanced guys

I only beat the #1 on the ladder, with that shitty team I posted, 4 times in a row, through hax and attempts at counterteaming!!!