ORAS LC Sun Team (need help)

[Kilgrave]

>My Sun Team (of fail). Please help me improve it. :) <

|

|

|

|

|

Introduction

I wanted to make some weather teams, and I thought that LC would be the best place to start. But I really suck at teambuilding and after testing these guys, I realised that it had some serious flaws (*cough cough* Stealth Rock). So I need some serious help.

Teambuilding Process

I wanted a team that relies completely on the sun (now that I think about it, it's not REALLY a good idea). And I tried to do this by taking advantage of abilities. I really don't think it worked. I've played Pokemon for years but only just started doing it competitively, so I'm a bit of noob. Here's my (bad) team.

Also, I like to spread my EVs a bit, just putting it out there.

The Team

Vulpix @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP /52 De /200 SA / 8 SD
Timid
- Fire Blast
- Energy Ball
- Toxic
- Hidden Power Water

Vulpix is whats needed on any LC sun team. Drought + Heat Rock keeps the sun out for as long as possible. Vulpix, along with Bulbasaur and Helioptile, are the Pokemon that seem to be OK in my team, because its what makes my sun team a sun team. Fire Blast gets increased power in the sun, and Energy Ball covers for its weaknesses. I do like my status conditions, and like to take advantage of them whenever I can, especially Toxic, and Hidden Power Water is just for extra coverage. Overall, I think Vulpix is good, but I think it has more potential, and I think I could make it better, I just don't know how.

Bulbasaur @ Eviolite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 De /252 SA / 252 Sp
Modest
- Sludge Bomb
- Solarbeam
- Sleep Powder
- Hidden Power Water

Apart from Vulpix, I'd say Bulbasaur is one of the most important members of my team, and also the best. Evoilite boosts Bulbasaur's defences, and Vulpix's sun activates Chlorophyll, which works wonders for Bulbasaur. With its 252 Speed EVs and chlorophyll, it makes it one of the fastest Pokemon in the tier. Sludge Bomb get STAB and can do some decent damage, but Bulbasaur's best move is Solarbeam. Combined with STAB, one-turn charge with the sun, and chlorophyll boost, means that it hits fast and hard. Sleep Powder is handy (when it hits) and gives the rest of my team an opportunity to switch or set up. It has Hidden Power Water for the same reason as Vulpix. Overall, I'm proud of Bulbasaur and I thinkn it's one of the best Pokemon on the team.

@ Eviolite
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 248 HP /130 De /130 SD
Modest
- Morning Sun
- Dazzling Gleam
- Nasty Plot
- Baton Pass

I'm not sure about Togepi. Its first move, Morning Sun, takes advantage of the sun for extra healing during setup. Dazzling Gleam is just there in case Togepi needs to attack, but it doesn't have much purpose. Nasty Plot and Baton Pass are part of the setup plan, which works, but I'm not sure if Togepi is the right Pokemon for the job. I'm sorta 50/50 about it.

Helioptile @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 4 De /252 SA /252 Sp
Timid
- Glare
- U-Turn
- Thunderbolt
- Surf

I'm quite happy with Helioptile. Its job is to do some damage (although I think Bulbasaur is slightly more suited to that) and it does it well. Dry Skin + Life Orb works very well, allowing Helioptile to do some good damage. Glare is 100% paralysis, and you can't go wrong with that. U-Turn is there in case he sun wears off and I need to switch back to Vulpix. Thunderbolt and Surf (why does it even learn surf?????) are just for all-out offense and coverage. I'm OK with Helioptile. It seems to fit well on the team.

Numel @ Eviolite
Ability: Simple
EVs: 100 HP/200 At /58 De /150 SA
Brave
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Iron Head

Numel is probably the Pokemon I am least sure about. A mixed Physical/Special pool makes EV spreading a nightmare. It is so slow, and I was stupid enough to take more speed off it to raise its own attack. Usually I would never use a Pokemon with base 35 speed, but hey, this is little cup, I'm not gonna be fighting base 100 speed Pokemon. Numel (for some reason), learns Stealth Rock, which is helpful. Fire Blast and Earthquake are stabbed, but Fire Blast has always been more viable. Iron Head is for fairies but it shouldn't be there. Numel needs a better move than that. Overall, Numel has got some problems, it still takes a lot of damage from water even in the sun. This guy should be replaced, but what with?

Pumpkaboo (Super) @ Eviolite
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 200 HP /8 De /100 SA /200 SD
Calm
- Synthesis
- Solar Beam
- Will-o-Wisp
- Shadow Ball

I made this Pumpakoo with bulk in mind. Does it have bulk? Yes. Is it a good switch-in? Sometimes. But there's two things that I don't like about this Pumpkaboo. Knock Off OHKOs it every time. And it just doesn't fit in with the rest of the team. Yes, there's Synthesis. That's not bad in the sun. Solar Beam is good (but Bulbasaur uses it better). Shadow Ball gets STAB and Will-o-Wisp has that burn. But, I feel that another Pokemon could do it better, the problem is, which Pokemon?

Conclusion

Some of my team is good, some of it sucks. It's my fault. But I need help. How can I improve this? How can I make it a great sun team. Feel free to express your opinions.

Thanks for reading :)

-Mewtwo​

 

[eren]

Hey man! Welcome to LC! I regret to inform you, but you are wasting a ton of EVs on your pokrmon because LC's EV system is competely different from a standard lvl 50 or lvl 100 mon. Here's a guide you can use for further teams that explains EVs in LC: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/a-little-help-a-guide-to-the-intricacies-of-lc.3497933/ Also, here is the viability rankings as well: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/lc-viability-rankings.3496013/

However, im here to rate your team and make it better, so thats what I'm here to do, lets go team member by team member and explore different options you have.

: The first two slots look nice. Just and inquiry what does hidden power water hit that energy ball doesnt? Numel? Overall, its a waste of a coverage move and doesnt really benefit anything that the team does, I suggest replacing it with Hp Rock. This is also a similar case for Toxic, as Toxic isnt not generally useful due to the rapid pace of LC battles and especially that of your team. However, it would be nice to lure in some things and toxic them. Will-o-Wisp is a nice option here as well

moveset with evs

Vulpix @ Heat Rock
Level: 5
Ability: Drought
EVs: 52 HP / 196 SpA / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Energy Ball
- Toxic / Will-o-Wisp
- Hidden Power [Rock]

: Again, what does Hidden Power Water lure in? Its not very good coverage especially for Bulba. I suggest replacing with Hp Fire. Other than EVs, Bulba looks solid

moveset with evs

Bulbasaur @ Life Orb
Level: 5
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 240 SpA / 240 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Solar Beam
- Sleep Powder
- Hidden Power Fire

: Togepi is a cool choice, but it really doesnt add match. What your team would like is a revenge killer. And fletchling fits the bill.

set

Fletchling
Level: 5
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 156 HP / 196 Atk / 92 Def / 52 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- U-turn
- Swords Dance
- Roost

: Helioptile isnt really viable, and Magnemite overall does its job better. This is due to speed, it steel typing, and its versatility.

set

Magnemite @ Berry Juice
Level: 5
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 36 Def / 236 SpA / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Recycle
- Hidden Power [Ground] / Endure

: I would replace Numel with Diglett. It fits very nicely here, being able yo trap many things for your team, including Abra, Fire Types, and Chinchou.

set

Diglett @ Focus Sash
Level: 5
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Stealth rock
- Sucker Punch

: While Pumpkaboo fit very nicely in before, I think relacing it with Mienfoo will be very beneficial. This is so because yoir team needs a Pawniard check and a fighting type in general to deal with Porygon.

set

Mienfoo @ Eviolite
Level: 5
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Baton Pass
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off

Summary of Changes:

Vulpix: EV optimization, moveset change

Bulbasaur: EVs and moveset change

Togepi -> Fletchling

Helioptile -> Magnemite

Numel -> Diglett

Pump -> Mienfoo

Hope I helped! Dont be afraid to respond with your opinions on the changes!

 

[Oma]

Hello Epic_Mewtwo and welcome to LC! Your sun team is pretty cool, however there are a few things that can be changed to make it better.

- Slurmz already gave the moveset for Vulpix but I'm going to strongly encourage you to use Will-o-Wisp over Toxic. While Toxic does cripple Ponyta switch-ins, Hidden Power Rock can do enough damage to it. Running Will-o-Wisp will let you cripple physical attackers that threaten your team, such as Pawniard and Fletchling. The set that Slurmz gave has the right evs, so you'll want to use that.

-In addition to running Hidden Power Fire, I'd recommend running Growth on Bulbasaur. This will mean that Bulbasaur won't need to receive Baton Pass boosts from Togepi in order to set up, and giving Bulbasaur some power even after sun runs out.

Growth Bulba

Bulbasaur @ Eviolite
Level: 5
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 240 SpA / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
- Growth
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Fire

-With Bulbasaur running Growth, theres no real reason to run Togepi because Bulba can set up on its own. For this reason, i would recommend using Snubbull over Togepi. Thanks to Intimidate, Snubbull can switch into physical attackers that threaten your team, such as Drilbur, Mienfoo, and Fletchling.

-I agree with Slurmz that Magnemite should be run in place of Helioptile, as Helioptile is 2HKOed by a Fletchling Acrobatics after Stealth Rock. The team as it stands has no counter to Fletchling, but Magnemite can consistently switch in to Fletchling that lack Overheat.

-The team right now has no hazard removal, and Stealth Rock really threatens sun teams because it wears down the amount of times Vulpix can switch in, in addition to wearing down the team. For this reason I would recommend using Drilbur over Numel. Drilbur can set up Stealth Rock while also removing it from your side with Rapid Spin.

Drilbur set

Drilbur @ Eviolite
Level: 5
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 212 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock

- Pumpkaboo really does nothing to help your team, especially with Vulpix spreading burns for it. One of the biggest threats to this team right now is Pawniard, which you have no switch-ins to and can sweep your team if it gets up a Swords Dance. Mienfoo is a good choice to run over Pumpkaboo to counter Pawniard. The set that Slurmz posted dies to Iron Head+Sucker Punch after having its Eviolite removed by Knock Off, so a more defensive spread should be used.

beats pawn

Mienfoo @ Eviolite
Level: 5
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 196 Def / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Taunt

As a final note, be sure to read the EV spread guide that Slurmz linked because it makes eving in Little Cup a lot easier. Thats all I have for this team, good luck with it and your battles in LC!

 

[Kilgrave]

Thanks guys. I do not have time to test this tonight but I'll see how things go tomorrow

 

[Fiend]

Noticeably, the previous rates drastically change the intent of the team, turning it from 6 pokemon abusing sun in some form to a Vulpix + Bulbasaur core and supporting said core. This does make the team overall less of a gimmick and greatly improves its viability, however I have some suggestions that can make your original idea much more viable too, although your team will always have holes when trying to have every pokemon benefit from sun.

I would suggest using the Vulpix and Bulbasaur sets that Omastar42 recommended, though is we are going to have every pokemon take advantage of Sun in some form, Togepi is better than Snubbull in this case. To nitpick your EV spread, run 236 HP / 156 Def / 36 SpA / 76 SpD and a Bold Nature on Togepi allows it to tank the hits it needs to more easily, though otherwise you have a good set. Sunny Day is an option to possibly consider, though it doesn't fit well with your other moves and isn't needed unless you feel that sun isn't up enough of the game.

Pumpkaboo needs a larger makeover however; a change to 208 HP / 36 Def / 236 SpD / 28 Spe with a Calm Nature over your current spread allows for Drilbur and Staryu and Chinchou to be dealt with to a much better degree. However for your set to be effective, you need sun in play already, which can be hard to maintain. Due to this, and the need for dual STABs and recovery, Sunny Day over Will-O-Wisp should alleviate this issue at the expense of becoming more Pawniard weak.

pumpkaboo

Pumpkaboo-Super @ Eviolite
Ability: Frisk
Level: 5
EVs: 208 HP / 36 Def / 236 SpD / 28 Spe
Calm Nature
- Synthesis
- Solar Beam
- Sunny Day
- Shadow Ball

Dragon Dance Fire Fang Tyrunt over Helioptile gives your team a much more hardy flying counter that boasts being a secondary win condition. Fair bulk and great attack help to clean offense teams and weaken bulky ones if needed while Sun helps it muscle past its normal checks without boosting. This set runs runs coverage for breaking past Fighting types as they are somewhat troubling.

tyrunt

Tyrunt @ Eviolite
Ability: Strong Jaw
Level: 5
EVs: 204 Atk / 76 SpD / 212 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Fang
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Zen Headbutt

The last suggestion that I have to maintain a completely sun oriented team would be some form of hazard removal, which would most aptly be Stunky. Stunky over Numel is probably the best situation you can have currently, however this does make your team much weaker to the likes of Ponyta so this is a tentative suggestion. But without Defog or Rapid Spin, Vulpix finds itself weakened greatly and otherwise your team has very little stopping Abra, Gastly, and Drifloon. Stunky also soft checks Pawn with Fire Blast, which is a nice addition.

Stunky

Stunky @ Eviolite
Ability: Aftermath
Level: 5
EVs: 12 HP / 92 Atk / 64 Def / 108 SpA / 188 SpD / 4 Spe
Brave Nature
- Pursuit
- Defog
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Bomb

_ _ _
Although is you wish to just utilize the Bulbasaur and Vulpix core and ignore trying to have a completely sun oriented team, I would use Omastar42 's suggestions due to the bulky nature of the team, though with Bulky Berry Juice Drilbur and Stone Edge Mienfoo over what he suggested to further dismantle Fire types which otherwise greatly threaten your team.

Drilburr

Drilbur @ Berry Juice
Ability: Mold Breaker
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 116 Def / 76 SpD / 212 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Slide

mienfoo

Mienfoo @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Def / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick
- Stone Edge

 

[Cheryl.]

Hey Epic_Mewtwo! That is a pretty cool team you got there, although as you said it has some flaws. One thing I would suggest is to replace Hidden Power on Vulpix to HP Rock. HP Water in sun???? What? Also, HP Rock gives you much better coverage. You should also change HP Water on Bulba to something else, like HP Fire. Another change I would suggest is use Bellsprout> Bulbasaur. I personally prefer Bellsprout over Bulba as a sun sweeper thanks to it's higher attacking stats and Weather Ball, but it is much frailer than Bulba so I can see why you wouldn't use it over Bulba.

Overall, a pretty cool team! Hope I helped!

 

[Yagura]

Hi there Epic_Mewtwo, nice sun team there, I personally enjoy using sun since it's a very fun playstyle and can do surprisingly well.

Well, the other users summed up most of the suggestions, indeed each user came with quite different suggestions but they're all good ones but I'll be leaning towards Fiend's since they not only improve your team but allows you to have another win condition in Tyrunt which can take on Flying-types like Fletchling that are threatening to your team and can easily sweep through it, having Tyrunt also allows it to put some holes in the opposing team which will allow your Chlorophyll attacker sweep more comfortably.

Also, if you're going wih Fiend's suggestions then consider using Will-o-Wisp over Shadow Ball on Pumpkaboo to be able to cripple Pawniard (and trust me you really won't want to take a Sucker Punch from a healthy Pawniard while you're sweeping late game) and there aren't much stuff that Pumpkaboo hits with Shadow Ball that isn't dealt with by Stunky.

l'll be also suggesting to use Bellsprout over Bulbasaur like BrandonBeast, indeed Bulbasaur is bulkier and slightly faster but Bellsprout has slightly more SpA and instead of relying on a weak HP Fire it can use Weather Ball which is way more powerful than HP Fire, here is the set:

Hide

Bellsprout @ Life Orb/ Eviolite
Level: 5
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 36 HP / 76 Def / 196 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
- Solar Beam
- Sleep Powder / Growth
- Weather Ball
- Sludge Bomb

Well that's all I have to say, I hope we've been helpful and good luck! :)