The World Cup of Pokémon X - Format [Read post #265]

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WhiteQueen

the queen bee
is a Tiering Contributorwon the 11th Official Smogon Tournamentis a Past SPL Champion
All kidding aside, you know I have some real love for you, Masterclass. I know the feelings are mutual too. Why we always bicker like a married couple. Your return and mere presence rejuvenated my interest to post again. This thread was dead to me before some mod unbanned you.
 
I don't find RBY and GSC an issue just because some countries don't have enough good players for them, I mean there are countries that have better ORAS players and countries that have worse ORAS players, isn't this the same thing as RBY or GSC?
Everything else is just a matter of taste and preferences.
 
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Yo old gens are cool and deserve to be included- they may not have thousands of players, but the playerbase is absolutely dedicated, and I'd argue the calibre of play is just as good in any other meta. Most teams should definitely be able to find capable players that can hold their own for those tiers- maybe not favourites, but that's the same for any tier regardless of what gen it is. There's no need to be salty just because your team doesn't have a player that's absolutely dominant. Not to mention that old gen OUs are the official tier for those games.

Also picking on rby/gsc is bs imo. Like if you think the tour should be limited to current gen I respect that, even if I disagree. But arguing against RBY/GSC and not any of the other old gens is just contrary imo, there's really no argument that applies to rby/gsc and not the other old gens, they both have relatively small player bases so that's w/e
 

yond

mitt game strong
is a Three-Time Past WCoP Champion
2 cents incoming. . .

People are going to play WCoP, because of the tradition/hype, not whether there are old gens included or not. If you kept it strictly to 8v8 current gen standard OU, then the quality of play gets better because there are less "good" players dispersed among old gens and focused on ORAS. Maybe you lose some old gen only guys who are strong players, but overall the quality still goes up IMO.
 

McMeghan

Dreamcatcher
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis the 5th Smogon Classic Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 14 Championis a defending SPL Championis a Past SPL Champion
Big Chungus Winner
There have been a lot of things said there and there in this thread. Some made sense and some didn't, so I feel like I should reply, I'll do it point by point.

Regarding the BW decision itself

We agreed to suspect/implement a weather + speed ability based on an IS thread as well as IRC conversations. It's a decision a lot of players agreed with, even a good part of the one who are displeased with the way we implemented it. We (the TDs) don't plan to overturn this decision, unless Excadrill proves to be overpowered in BW based on the Live Tours we'll host and the WCoP (something I very much doubt).

Regarding its implementation in WCoP

Sure, we could have hosted Suspect Tours prior to announcing the decision to implement it into WCoP, but those will pretty much be a formality, because we're pretty much sure of the decision we'll take (aka: weather + speed ability ban in BW). The Suspect Tours will probably confort us in our decision (unless Excadrill turns out to be really outpowered, which let's be honest, has very little chance to happen) and give people and WCoP players some testing grounds for the tournament itself.

Let's be honest, old gen ladders are dead and this one would be dead as well. People just don't care if there is no reward. More over, Official Tournaments is truely where we get to see the evolution of a tier, and I believe implementing the BW decision for this WCoP will be best to emulate the tier development.

The thing is an old gen tiering decision is gonna affect an official tournament soon or later, and we decided it would in application as soon as for this WCoP, especially considering the Inside Scoop thread on the matter has been made more than a month ago, so it's not like it's completely out of the blue either. The decision has also been announced 2 weeks in a half before the first round will be up, which is more than enough time to start preparing for the tier changes, especially with the Live Tours to playtest.

I'll also add that this is how we'll work in the future if we decide to implement an old gen tiering change: we will go through some Live Tournaments as well as an Official Tournament ruleset change. We'll use them as the basis for a Official Tiering Change. We feel this is the only way to see the true effects of a change in an old gen.

If you'd prefer an another form of delivery regarding this kind of decision in the future, let us know, but the decision to implement the weather + ability ban in WCoP is final.

Regarding the WCoP Format

First of all, the format has been announced more than two weeks ago, so I don't know why some people are suddenly jumping at our throat regarding the decision to include RBY and GSC? What is actually laughable is that some of you are actually claiming ~some TDs~ made that change to favor their teams. Do I have to remind you that we actually decided to go with an Old Gen WCoP because this is what the players wanted and proposed last year, with Malekith's thread in IS? The only difference this year is that we decided to be more coherent and include all generations instead of some weird compromise. An idea not only most TDs agreed to take, but also strongly backed up by TDs who gain no benefit from it because they don't even play in the tournament.

Sure, Full ORAS had a case to be the format, and we even made a thread in our private subforum to discuss on the matter. The thing is: Full ORAS and All Gens both have their upsides and downsides, and both sides have their supporters. In these cases, the decision is up to the TDs, and we decided to go with last year change (altho we modified it), the one origally suggested by our playerbase. So much for TDs doing "what they want" and "not listening to the players" right? Allow me to laugh at people thinking "the majority" (the Malekith's thread OP has gathered pretty much as many likes as Masterclass post despite being only accessible to a much smaller part of our userbase) is angry at our decision.

The format has been announced early enough for every teams to prepare regarding their RBY and GSC player, especially when you consider that the Classic got a lot of people to learn the basics of the tiers. I'll also add that RBY has a more active and bigger playerbase than ADV, so the argument that "only a few teams have a competitive RBYer" is bullshit.

Regarding the decisions being made by the TDs and not the managers

We didn't allow the captains to vote for a decision and I'll get onto this point. Does anyone remember SPL5? Remember most of the captains voted for/against LC and Doubles mostly based on thier bias on the tiers or their ability to retain strong players in the tiers? Remember how much shit the TDs got back then for "letting the captains decide because they didn't have the balls to do it themselves and avoid the blame"? Because I, and the other TDs do, and that served as a nice experience for the future.

Both decisions have been taken unilaterally by all the TDs, and not only the one who'd "benefit" from there (France certainly has seasonned RBYers and GSCers, right lol).

We spent a lot of time discussing this kind of decision, trying to be as objective as possible. I mentionned in this post why we changed the WCoP Format (to please the playerbase), and why we took the BW decision (to please the playerbase), and nothing about them has to do with "favoring" our team. You're free to think whatever you want regarding us, or some of us in that case, but I know we all think about the playerbase and fairness when we take decisions.
-----

Just in case there was any doubt: the WCoP format is not up for change this year.
 

Royal Flush

in brazil rain
is a Past WCoP Champion
"having old gens in every tournament is bullshit" we have spl and now wcop (frontier counts too I guess). I don't see every tourney here, and they only happen once in a year. We actually have a severe lack of old gen tournaments, even with a small playerbase. Classics is a nice addition to the major tournament list of course, but it's not enough

"rby is only hax, gsc has 1000 turns omg remove those shit" you probably have no idea of what you are talking


team tournaments are fun with all gens, can we stop whining once in a lifetime (no direct offense to anyone tho)
 
Real talk, can we have team captaincies coming down to a vote like they did in powc? Basically in your sign up you'd nominate a manager other than yourself. From that point you would then assign the managers with the most votes for each team. Then they themselves would be free to assign assmen and stuff. This sorta prevents people managing who have always been in charge of teams who aren't necessarily best for the job.
 
no because for wcop most of us have been preparing rosters for a few months by this point based on established captains

Aldawrong's comment aside, I've been working on Asia forever and I know other teams have too. Captains are pretty set and if there are any problems with them tds should have brought it up already. Wcop doesn't begin when sign ups go up, it begins long before that
 

WhiteQueen

the queen bee
is a Tiering Contributorwon the 11th Official Smogon Tournamentis a Past SPL Champion
ORAS is like Taylor Swift. She's the hottest and most popular thing right now.

BW is Joffrey Baratheon. Bitch deserves to die in the worst way possible.

DPP is Beyoncé. She'll always be hot no matter what.

ADV is Madonna. There will always be love for her thru the generations.

GSC is Justine Beiber. Get the fuck outta here. Nobody likes you except obese teenage Canadian girls.

RBY is who? You shouldn't still be playing this tragic game if you're already in your 30s. Take a timeout to reevaluate your life. Get a wife. Get kids. Do something with your life.
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P.S. If the player base really has a say all the matches would be ORAS, DPP, and ADV.
 

soulgazer

I FEEL INFINITE
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Real talk, can we have team captaincies coming down to a vote like they did in powc? Basically in your sign up you'd nominate a manager other than yourself. From that point you would then assign the managers with the most votes for each team. Then they themselves would be free to assign assmen and stuff. This sorta prevents people managing who have always been in charge of teams who aren't necessarily best for the job.
Please make this happen. A lot of people in Canada are bullied by user: Jirachee and it seems like the TDs are blind about this issue. Don't let this predator manage the team of this beautiful snow land.
 

Fatecrashers

acta est fabula
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Artist Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
team tournaments are fun with all gens, can we stop whining once in a lifetime (no direct offense to anyone tho)
and you may find yourself making lots of personal attacks
and you may find yourself born in another part of the world
and you may find yourself behind the wheel of a large smogon tournament
and you may find yourself subbing into gsc, subbing into rby
and you may ask yourself
well...how did i get here?

letting the bans go by
let reuniclus hold me down
letting the bans go by
people whining underground
playing with bloo again
after the trophy's gone
once in a lifetime
people whining underground
 

Dave

formerly Stone Cold
is a Tournament Directoris a Forum Moderatoris a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past SCL Championis a Five-Time Past WCoP Champion
Moderator
ORAS is like Taylor Swift. She's the hottest and most popular thing right now.

BW is WhiteQueen. Bitch deserves to die in the worst way possible.

DPP is Beyoncé. She'll always be hot no matter what.

ADV is Madonna. There will always be love for her thru the generations.

GSC is Justine Beiber. Get the fuck outta here. Nobody likes you except obese teenage Canadian girls.

RBY is who? You shouldn't still be playing this tragic game if you're already in your 30s. Take a timeout to reevaluate your life. Get a wife. Get kids. Do something with your life.
---

P.S. If the player base really has a say all the matches would be ORAS, DPP, and ADV.
FTFY
 
Real talk, can we have team captaincies coming down to a vote like they did in powc? Basically in your sign up you'd nominate a manager other than yourself. From that point you would then assign the managers with the most votes for each team. Then they themselves would be free to assign assmen and stuff. This sorta prevents people managing who have always been in charge of teams who aren't necessarily best for the job.
No. Lets not turn WCoP into a popularity contest.
 
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