Ladder Tier Shift ORAS (Swift Swim Banned)

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Stall has gained a lot from BL Pokemon getting boosts from the tier above them. Powerful wallbreakers and stallbreakers such as Victini, Houndoom, Heracross, Diggersby, and Kyurem become much worse at their tasks, while stall has lost only Kyurem, which can also be used as a wallbreaker. I find this quite unsettling as stall was already fairly good in Tier Shift XY.
Time to riot by putting gothitelle on every team.
:mad:
There are plenty of ways to break stall other than just Gothitelle. While Gothitelle is very effective at picking what it wants to eliminate, most variants cannot sweep teams unlike some stallbreakers and many times Gothitelle is only good for eliminating a single pokemon while not being as effective against more offensive teams. Some other effective wallbreakers/stallbreakers include:

Manaphy: Manaphy has a few different sets it can use to break down walls or entire teams. The best of these against stall teams is the Rain Dance set. This gives it protection against status and allows it to cleanly set up Tail Glows against most walls. Besides the previous two moves, it can carry Scald for its main attack and either coverage (Ice Beam for Grass-types such as Amoongus, Energy Ball for Water-types such as Gastrodon, etc) or Rest to heal itself. Coverage is generally the superior option as mono-attacking sets are more easily walled but Rest can do more against some teams.

Reniculus: A combination of natural bulk, Magic Guard, and Calm Mind is truly devastating. Reniculus can run through a lot of stall teams as most have a very hard time doing damage it can't heal off with Recover or that isn't negated by Magic Guard. Even if they can shuffle it, it can still pull off last pokemon sweeps. Most will have Recover, Calm Mind, a Psychic-type STAB, and either Focus Blast or Shadow Ball for coverage (Shadow Ball hits Psychic-types such as Cresselia better, Focus Blast hits Dark-types such as Mandibuzz harder).

Gliscor: This pokemon has two different stallbreaking sets with different counters. The more commonly seen set is Taunt, Knock Off, Toxic, and Earthquake/Roost/Substitute. This is able to passively recover as much damage as most walls are abke to dish out via Poison Heal, while preventing walls from healing themselves with Taunt. Toxic helps whittle down most walls, especially those Gliscor can't stay in against such as Milotic. This set is very frustrating if you do not have a stronger offensive pokemon that is able to hit Gliscor hard. The second set is the SD one. This one capitalizes on Gliscors great typing and ability to set up on things that "wall" it, such as most Alomomola. Since it cannot be statused in most cases, stall teams struggle to deal lasting damage and prevent it from setting up. The set is Swords Dance, Earthquake, Facade/Knock Off, and Roost/Facade/Knock Off.

These are only a few of the many ones ready to be placed on teams to deal with stall and many preform well against offense. How are other players dealing with stall teams or defensive cores?
 
If you are having trouble with stall or defensive cores break out some of these pokemon:

Banded Sawk- solidly 2hkos Mola with Close Combat, though Adamant is required. Adamant Band Sawk runs through most defensive cores with amazing coverage moves such as Knock off, Poison Jab, Ice Punch, Earthquake, and Stone Edge. Other then Slowbro-Mega and Sableye-Mega there are no defensive pokemon that really want to switch into Sawk. Whatever resists its powerful Close Combat is easily hit super effectively by its other coverage moves, other then Sableye at least. Sawk is the absolute best wallbreaker in the tier, its only trouble is it needs Choice Band to be so effective.

Specs Draglage- despite getting a nerf from the recent mechanics changes, Draglage is still a bona fide nuke thanks to adaptability. It still struggles a bit with steel types, but Focus Blast is a viable method of removing them from your path.

Magic Guard Sigilyph- While not as bulky as Reuniclus, Sigilyph gets much more power from Stored Power, and Cosmic Power as an alternative set up method to complment Calm Mind. The basic concept is still the same however- set up, heal off damage, and deal heavy damage while your opponent struggles to do heavy damage back thanks to your immunity to residual damage. Also more effective against offense then Reuniclus.

Sub Plot Mismagius- Missy isn't a very complicated stall breaker. Get behind a sub to protect from status, set up, and hit for damage. Calm Mind is an alternative to Nasty Plot if you want to boost bulk, as even defensive pokemon can do enough damage to Mismagius to force it out or break the Sub.

Belly Drum Slurpuff- setting up straight to +6 is always trouble for stall not packing an Unaware. When you add Drain Punch and Aromatherapy or Sub, it becomes almost impossible for stall to properly deal with Cupkek. Drain Punch helps you heal residual damage and small hits off. Aromatherapy and Sub protect you from crippling status such as Burns and Toxics. There is also a Calm Mind set, though i find it to be much slower and less effective against Stall. the Calm Mind set Usually runs CM+ Cotton Guard, preventing you from running status protection. The CM set does have much better coverage options though, as Belly Drum only has access to Play Rough, Drain Punch, and Return :(.
 
Belly Drum Slurpuff- setting up straight to +6 is always trouble for stall not packing an Unaware. When you add Drain Punch and Aromatherapy or Sub, it becomes almost impossible for stall to properly deal with Cupkek. Drain Punch helps you heal residual damage and small hits off. Aromatherapy and Sub protect you from crippling status such as Burns and Toxics. There is also a Calm Mind set, though i find it to be much slower and less effective against Stall. the Calm Mind set Usually runs CM+ Cotton Guard, preventing you from running status protection. The CM set does have much better coverage options though, as Belly Drum only has access to Play Rough, Drain Punch, and Return :(.
I'm gonna go ahead and talk up my boi Slurpuff for a moment here, as I build a team recently around Slurpuff (ft. Jynx: a bad mon in case you needed to know). Belly Drum Puff is absolutely devastating to any team lacking a Steel/Psychic or Neutral Priority/Bullet Punch. If nothing else, it can switch in on Knock Offs and punch a decent sized hole in HO teams. Cress is an absolutely fanTAStic teammate for it, as it has good type synergy with it and setting up screens EZ, plus healing wish is a broken move.
 
Anyways, as a lot of you know, I've been using sand a lot recently, and I have been doing quite well with it. Sand teams do fairly well against a lot of archetypes, and many teams are unprepared for it.

I like sand because it allows pokemon that are otherwise mediocre such as Cradily, Mega Steelix, and Gigalith to shine. When I use it, my teams tend towards bulky offense, as both offensive and defensive Pokemon get buffs from sand.

Offensive Pokemon in particular receive major boosts. Pokemon such as Mega Steelix, Mega Garchomp, and Gigalith gain a lot of power, being able to easily power through some things that would otherwise wall it. Just as important, however, are the speed boosts granted to Pokemon such as Excadrill and Stoutland. It allows them to outspeed most Pokemon in the metagame while hitting very hard. These Pokemon can act as revenge killers, or even sweepers!

As mentioned earlier, bulky Pokemon get boosts as well. Pokemon like Tyranitar and Cradily become amazing tanks/walls. Defensive Pokemon also get the bonus of dealing passive damage to their opponents, which can help you immensely in the right situations.

What are your opinions on sand and other weathers I suppose in the current Tier Shift metagame?


http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/tiershift-222621293 (This was the finals in some random OM room tourney)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/tiershift-223533183 (This was a counter-team, made by Peef Rimgar and Kingslayer2779 specifically to counter my team; it would probably be terrible against anything else)

Yes I know these replays aren't very good, but I never save my replays, so these were the only ones I had.
 
Anyways, as a lot of you know, I've been using sand a lot recently, and I have been doing quite well with it. Sand teams do fairly well against a lot of archetypes, and many teams are unprepared for it.

I like sand because it allows pokemon that are otherwise mediocre such as Cradily, Mega Steelix, and Gigalith to shine. When I use it, my teams tend towards bulky offense, as both offensive and defensive Pokemon get buffs from sand.

Offensive Pokemon in particular receive major boosts. Pokemon such as Mega Steelix, Mega Garchomp, and Gigalith gain a lot of power, being able to easily power through some things that would otherwise wall it. Just as important, however, are the speed boosts granted to Pokemon such as Excadrill and Stoutland. It allows them to outspeed most Pokemon in the metagame while hitting very hard. These Pokemon can act as revenge killers, or even sweepers!

As mentioned earlier, bulky Pokemon get boosts as well. Pokemon like Tyranitar and Cradily become amazing tanks/walls. Defensive Pokemon also get the bonus of dealing passive damage to their opponents, which can help you immensely in the right situations.

What are your opinions on sand and other weathers I suppose in the current Tier Shift metagame?

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/tiershift-222621293 (This was the finals in some random OM room tourney)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/tiershift-223533183 (This was a counter-team, made by Peef Rimgar and Kingslayer2779 specifically to counter my team; it would probably be terrible against anything else)

Yes I know these replays aren't very good, but I never save my replays, so these were the only ones I had.
I would like to defend myself in that replay by saying I thought he carried a rotom form instead of tflame because another user uses the same sand core and I got their teams mixed up
 
Suspect Test of: Shadow Tag


So myself and the other Tier Shift players have all agreed that the ability: Shadow Tag needs to be looked at. Shadow Tag is considered a widely uncompetitive ability in any tier, but in Tier Shift in particular has a very annoying user of it: Wobbuffet, who gains +15 to all of its stats via Tier Shifts. We feel a ban of just Wobbuffet is unjust, however, as Gothitelle does the exact same thing to stall that Wobb does to offense.

Voting will be myself, Kingslayer2779, Deathly ♛The King, FishInABox, and one more pending user we have in mind but have yet to reach. We'll present our cases here and we would like you to do so as well, the more thoughts we here the more likely we are to change our minds.


 
Shadow Tag is incredibly annoying, and I'd be very much in favor of banning it. However, I really don't think Gothitelle is as broken with Shadow Tag as Wobbuffet is. Wobbuffet's stat spread allows it to take hits from both sides of the spectrum, and then return them with the force of a meteor smacking into the opponent. I know you stated that Pokemon bans individually are not what you're a fan of, but I think the real problem is the combination of the two, not just Shadow Tag. Wobbuffet in itself is the issue. Gothitelle faces the issue of being useless against offense with Specs, and useless against stall with Scarf, it's simply not as good as Wobbuffet is. Gothitelle is beat by a lot of Pokemon, while Wobbuffet can single-handly trap and defeat whatever it so pleases. I've never thought "damn I wish I was using Gothitelle over Wobbuffet" with my experiences with Wobbuffet. I'd like to see Wobbuffet banned, not Shadow Tag.
 
Gothitelle isn't useless against stall with a scarf in the slightest. I've swept stall teams (mostly bad ones made by user: Kingslayer2779) with only trick scarf Gothitelle.

Anyways, my opinion is to ban Shadow Tag. Their trapping and killing of Pokemon make way for other team members to sweep extremely easily.
For example, you only have one Sharpedo-Mega check, Toxicroak. You switch in Sharpedo, and while they switch out into Toxicroak, you switch again into Wobbuffet. Wobbuffet has then trapped Toxicroak, and can proceed to counter it to death. The rest of the team is easily defeated by Sharpedo afterwards.

In addition to paving way for other sweepers, Gothitelle can sweep stall teams quite easily. Stall teams are forced to run ways to beat it, which can lead to shed shells on everything or otherwise unviable Pokemon just to beat it. The most disgusting set (and the one I usually use,) is Rest/Sleep Talk/Calm Mind/Psyshock(or Psychic) Gothitelle, which can set up on nearly any stall Pokemon, allowing it to then sweep (as long as Dark types are murdered beforehand) while at +6 SpA and SpD.
At least liepard beats them! It has U-turn, Encore, and Dark Type STABS!

TL;DR: Shadow Tag is annoying af and is uncompetitive :[
 
I would rather ban wobbuffet than shadow tag, which would include the banning of gothitelle. I really don't think it would be justified to ban a pokemon that isn't banned in ou when it literally gains nothing. It isn't banworthy anyway imo; it can really only trap very passive pokemon such as chansey, or some slow pokemon weak to one of the moves in its horrible movepool, either psychic, thunderbolt, energy ball or hidden power fire. It is also very weak, unable to ohko pokemon such as keldeo or terrakion. Wobbuffet on the other hand can trap a huge amount of pokemon, offensive and defensive rather than just passive ones, and either kill them or turn them into setup bait for another pokemon. I can't really say whether or not it is broken because I haven't really seen it used a huge amount, but if something is going to be banned then make it wobbuffet, not shadow tag, please.
 
I would rather ban wobbuffet than shadow tag, which would include the banning of gothitelle. I really don't think it would be justified to ban a pokemon that isn't banned in ou when it literally gains nothing. It isn't banworthy anyway imo; it can really only trap very passive pokemon such as chansey, or some slow pokemon weak to one of the moves in its horrible movepool, either psychic, thunderbolt, energy ball or hidden power fire. It is also very weak, unable to ohko pokemon such as keldeo or terrakion. Wobbuffet on the other hand can trap a huge amount of pokemon, offensive and defensive rather than just passive ones, and either kill them or turn them into setup bait for another pokemon. I can't really say whether or not it is broken because I haven't really seen it used a huge amount, but if something is going to be banned then make it wobbuffet, not shadow tag, please.
Both goth and wobb have other abilities so it's not like either will get banned, the only thing that will be removed is cancerous tumors so I don't see why we shouldn't considering shadowgoth adds nothing to the meta
 
Many of you are implying that even hitting Wobbuffet will result in a devastating loss of a main component of your team. Implore me for a minute, and let us consider that both Counter and Mirror Coat have types that are immune to them. Mons such as Dark and Ghost types traditionally have the power in Tier Shift to break down Wobbuffet. These Pokémon also have the tools to either cripple Wobbuffet or take it out at even higher health percentages. Running these - very offensively viable - Pokémon such as Specs or Scarf Chandelure, Mega Absol to Swords Dance on it, SubDisable or SubHex Gengar, or even Switcheroo Scarf Malamar as a more diverse option. These mons can shut Wobbuffet down, one can U-Turn or Volt Switch into them. Alternatively, Mixed Attackers do a great job of forcing Wobbuffet out and even taking it down. My only problem with any kind of ban is that no one has even tried to beat Wobbuffet before they call it OP and banworthy. Sure, it may be unhealthy or may be overpowered, but right now, we should be looking at it like any other S rank or A+ rank mon which we just have to prepare for. There are completely competitive and fun ways to beat both Shadow Tag users on whichever playstyle you chose. Please guys, try to be innovative, creative, good players that prepare for the meta before calling something completely uncompetitive.

I will be posting later on how to actually play versus Shadow Tag.

Note: I am not necessarily in favor of keeping Shadow Tag at the moment, but I want you all to stop regarding Wobbuffet as an unstoppable force and be intelligent players.
 
Many of you are implying that even hitting Wobbuffet will result in a devastating loss of a main component of your team. Implore me for a minute, and let us consider that both Counter and Mirror Coat have types that are immune to them. Mons such as Dark and Ghost types traditionally have the power in Tier Shift to break down Wobbuffet. These Pokémon also have the tools to either cripple Wobbuffet or take it out at even higher health percentages. Running these - very offensively viable - Pokémon such as Specs or Scarf Chandelure, Mega Absol to Swords Dance on it, SubDisable or SubHex Gengar, or even Switcheroo Scarf Malamar as a more diverse option. These mons can shut Wobbuffet down, one can U-Turn or Volt Switch into them. Alternatively, Mixed Attackers do a great job of forcing Wobbuffet out and even taking it down. My only problem with any kind of ban is that no one has even tried to beat Wobbuffet before they call it OP and banworthy. Sure, it may be unhealthy or may be overpowered, but right now, we should be looking at it like any other S rank or A+ rank mon which we just have to prepare for. There are completely competitive and fun ways to beat both Shadow Tag users on whichever playstyle you chose. Please guys, try to be innovative, creative, good players that prepare for the meta before calling something completely uncompetitive.

I will be posting later on how to actually play versus Shadow Tag.

Note: I am not necessarily in favor of keeping Shadow Tag at the moment, but I want you all to stop regarding Wobbuffet as an unstoppable force and be intelligent players.
While you have a relevant point that Wobbuffet isn't completely unbreakable, by nature of it, it never has to be in a bad matchup. It can just get out of bad matchups to switch to a counter.

Lets say the situation is my Wobbuffet and Hydreigon vs. your Chandelure and some attacker Wobb shits on. You literally can't win if Wobb is given a free switch, as it will trap the attacker it shits on nothing else. Then, when you go to Chandelure, the Wobb player gets a free switch to a counter, Hydreigon. It's really a lose/lose situation for you without all sorts of predicts.

In light of discussion, I'm probably going to add a third option to voting. No Ban, Ban Shadow Tag, and Ban Wobbuffet will be the options.
 
Ok, for those of you who think that Gothitelle gains nothing from Tier Shift, you're partially wrong and partially right. No, it doesn't gain any boosts. What it does gain, however, you can see looking at this: http://www.smogon.com/stats/2015-04/metagame/tiershift-1760.txt and http://www.smogon.com/stats/2015-04/metagame/ou-1825.txt. There is a lot more stall in Tier Shift than in OU, and stall is the main thing that Gothitelle beats. This increases the amount of teams that Gothitelle destroys.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
A lot dropped to UU in the last official tier shift. Anything stand out that appreciates the +5, particularly the Speed increase?
 
Ok, for those of you who think that Gothitelle gains nothing from Tier Shift, you're partially wrong and partially right. No, it doesn't gain any boosts. What it does gain, however, you can see looking at this: http://www.smogon.com/stats/2015-04/metagame/tiershift-1760.txt and http://www.smogon.com/stats/2015-04/metagame/ou-1825.txt. There is a lot more stall in Tier Shift than in OU, and stall is the main thing that Gothitelle beats. This increases the amount of teams that Gothitelle destroys.
That's true... Until you realize that Stall won't be dominant anymore in May. Whimsicott, Cresselia, Doublade all moved from RU to UU, which means they got nerfed. And Hippowdon to OU. That's four pokes getting nerfed, all of them are Stall pokes. The only thing Stall gain is Mandibuzz which got dropped from OU to UU.

I think the new dominant playstyle will be rain just because Kabutops dropped to NU and Kingdra dropped to RU.
 
Yeah rain is becoming amazing again x_x RIP HO
Anyways, Whimsicott is definitely not a stalling Pokemon. Not to mention that it was bad in the first place.
Also, Stall increased by like 20% in one month. What happened?
 
So there was a tier shift, tier shift looks even cooler now:

Scrafty moved from UU to RU: Pretty interesting, the first instinct you might think is Dragon Dance but I'm a little iffy on that, you still get outsped by virtually every scarfer in the metagame. It does outspeed ttar but you have to compromise a lot of bulk just to do it, and I feel scrafty's bulk is what differentiates it from pangoro. Mostly outclassed by Pangoro though cause dds/bus are pretty hard to set up and you aren't even super strong at +1. Could possibly work though.

Gallade moved from OU to UU Gallade is pretty interesting, with Doublade becoming significantly less viable, and Cress now being not nearly as common benefits it sooo much. It still probably won't do much

Kingdra moved from UU to RU I don't really feel that rain is gonna be broken, like there are mons like Ferrothorn and SpD mola that are already pretty common that can stop it. It will be really good though.

Mandibuzz moved from OU to UU I don't see this doing much, yeah it's a pretty cool defoggers but I don't see much reason to use it over something like Skarmory. It might be good though.

Flygon moved from UU to RU Definitely overhyped. This thing is eclipsed a ton by garchomp existing, defog sets sure but I'd probably use Gligar for a ground-type defogger, even with the +10 garchomp still does almost all of what Flygon does better. U-turn is cool yes and is pretty much Flygon's niche but it still is weaker than chomp in a lot of ways.

Alakazam moved from UU to OU I didn't really see much zam at all so I don't know exactly how good it was but on paper it doesn't seem that great, focus sash at least, because of how bulky the meta is. Life orb probably is an awesome set though cause it hits like an absolute truck. Expect this to still see usage though, cause even with it going uu, it still can wallbreak very well with life orb/alakazite but mainly life orb.

Heliolisk moved from RU to UU This is a sad one, heliolisk was an awesome mon. Literally the bane of mola and pretty much every other water type. Probably will still be cool though.

Mamoswine moved from OU to UU Pretty great, not broken at all thuogh cause of all the bulky waters and how common of a type fighting is. Still hits really hard and will be a top tier mon for sure.

Hippowdon moved from UU to OU This sucks for stall teams even though they probably will still use hippo, this thing quite frankly did not die. It set rocks, had a decently strong eq, and has slack off which is amazing.

Fletchinder moved from RU to NU Pretty much outclassed by talonflame still unless you really want 7 more attack on it. Maybe it nets a ko of some sort, but it just seems inferior to talonflame in every conceivable way.

Slurpuff moved from RU to UU This is a godsend for offense, and a curse for it. This is because Slurpuff not only just annihilated offense, but it was also one of offense's best pokemon. Though it is slowly decreasing in viability due to the rise of Garbodor, but it is still a really good mon even with only +5.

Magneton moved from RU to NU Magneton is already an awesome pokemon in the meta, this just makes it entirely outclass magnezone, as opposed to almost entirely outclassing it due to a noticable difference in bulk, but now it is not very apparent. Plus it can run the eviolite set but you lose out on a good amount of power and speed.

Abomasnow moved from RU to UU With mamoswine dropping down, unfortunately this makes mega abomasnow a lot less viable, it has niches with sd and trick room though mainly sd. But Mamoswine is faster, has a stab eq, and tools like icicle spear/crash and whatever its 4th slot will be, rocks or knock off maybe? Freeze dry seems stupid now because literally all it does is hit rotom-w hard. But it isn't as common. I guess swampert and quagsire but I probably wouldn't keep swampert in vs mamoswine, and running it for quag and rotom w seems pretty undesirable. I think it'll still be ok but not nearly as good as it was.

Doublade moved from RU to UU It was ok when it was +10 but now it just seems pretty bad. It's special attack is atrocious, even with eviolite, and it's attack is good but I don't really think it'll cut it because its moves aren't very high power. Swords Dance is nice and all but when you have so many things that can stop you (though hippo going up helps it a little bit)

Cresselia moved from RU to UU I don't think I need to explain why this is good. Subcm sets up on nearly every mon in the tier. It'll still be good but not nearly as dominant. Offense looks so much better now.

Slowking moved from RU to UU Booooo this is stupid, cm slack off sets were so good because it can set up on so much and has 16 pp recovery, av checked fire types well, and specs sets hit incredibly hard. I'd probably always use slowbro for everything but av, and av just seems meh now.

Noivern moved from UU to RU Offense now has a shiny new toy that will be top tier to play with. I think roost + 3 attacks and specs will be the best sets, and tauntroost will be viable too. It is just so fast, it outspeeds scarf emboar, and scarf ttar which are some great assets. Probably the mon I am most hyped for.

Kabutops moved from RU to NU Rain is gonna be a lot better, kinda iffy on whether or not it'll be broken and a lot of oters will touch on that. As a spinner, tops is good because of the fact that it can spin vs nearly every ghost in the game cause of its stabs, top tier mon for sure, rain or not.

Seismitoad moved from NU to RU This makes me salty cause of it leaving nu but it won't have an impact here, other than lessening its niche as a rain sweeper. Defensive sets might be ok but it loses to a lot of stuff.

Whimsicott moved from RU to UU Peef Rimgar This sucks so much cause Life Orb cott is a great mon, it just provides an insane amount of utility in encore and tailwind/stun spore/etc. . It still will see use though cause of its typing as ability to act as a safety net for offensive teams versus things like Slurpuff.

Pinsir moved from RU to NU I doubt this will have any significant impact on the meta. Things like Scizor exist and scolipede too if you were considering scarf moxie.

Sorry these are pretty barebones, just worked on this for ~3 hours.
 
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I would rather ban wobbuffet than shadow tag, which would include the banning of gothitelle. I really don't think it would be justified to ban a pokemon that isn't banned in ou when it literally gains nothing. It isn't banworthy anyway imo; it can really only trap very passive pokemon such as chansey, or some slow pokemon weak to one of the moves in its horrible movepool, either psychic, thunderbolt, energy ball or hidden power fire. It is also very weak, unable to ohko pokemon such as keldeo or terrakion. Wobbuffet on the other hand can trap a huge amount of pokemon, offensive and defensive rather than just passive ones, and either kill them or turn them into setup bait for another pokemon. I can't really say whether or not it is broken because I haven't really seen it used a huge amount, but if something is going to be banned then make it wobbuffet, not shadow tag, please.
This meta is based on OU banlist, right? If so, I don't see the reason of banning Shadow Tag in Gothitelle when OU doesn't ban it.
Tier Shift does not have to directly follow the Ou Banlist. Just because Gothitelle isn't banned in Ou doesn't necessarily mean we can't ban it here. The Ou council is too busy with other threats to deal with Gothitelle anyway. Its quite possible it is suspected (or shadow tag) later in the year. We don't know exactly what Ou is going to do. It should be irrelevant to this suspect. The question should be "is Shadow Tag broken, overcentralzing, or unhealthy for the TS metagame."
Many of you are implying that even hitting Wobbuffet will result in a devastating loss of a main component of your team. Implore me for a minute, and let us consider that both Counter and Mirror Coat have types that are immune to them. Mons such as Dark and Ghost types traditionally have the power in Tier Shift to break down Wobbuffet. These Pokémon also have the tools to either cripple Wobbuffet or take it out at even higher health percentages. Running these - very offensively viable - Pokémon such as Specs or Scarf Chandelure, Mega Absol to Swords Dance on it, SubDisable or SubHex Gengar, or even Switcheroo Scarf Malamar as a more diverse option. These mons can shut Wobbuffet down, one can U-Turn or Volt Switch into them. Alternatively, Mixed Attackers do a great job of forcing Wobbuffet out and even taking it down. My only problem with any kind of ban is that no one has even tried to beat Wobbuffet before they call it OP and banworthy. Sure, it may be unhealthy or may be overpowered, but right now, we should be looking at it like any other S rank or A+ rank mon which we just have to prepare for. There are completely competitive and fun ways to beat both Shadow Tag users on whichever playstyle you chose. Please guys, try to be innovative, creative, good players that prepare for the meta before calling something completely uncompetitive.

I will be posting later on how to actually play versus Shadow Tag.

Note: I am not necessarily in favor of keeping Shadow Tag at the moment, but I want you all to stop regarding Wobbuffet as an unstoppable force and be intelligent players.
All of this is true. Its also true that Wobbuffet's massive bulk gives it some resistance to mixed attackers. Even if the Wobbuffet player guesses wrong, its unlikely that a mixed attacker will 2hko Wobbuffet. This enables Encore shenanigans. Mixed Attackers are still one of the best ways to beat Wobbuffet, but aren't entirely reliable.

252+ SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 52 HP / 224 SpD Wobbuffet: 199-234 (35.2 - 41.4%) -- 74.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
56 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 52 HP / 232+ Def Wobbuffet: 247-292 (43.7 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


yeah wobb is amazing. plz ban
Please no one/two liners. "its amazing plz ban" adds nothing of value to the discussion.
 
Tier Shift does not have to directly follow the Ou Banlist. Just because Gothitelle isn't banned in Ou doesn't necessarily mean we can't ban it here. The Ou council is too busy with other threats to deal with Gothitelle anyway. Its quite possible it is suspected (or shadow tag) later in the year. We don't know exactly what Ou is going to do. It should be irrelevant to this suspect. The question should be "is Shadow Tag broken, overcentralzing, or unhealthy for the TS metagame."
I don't mean to be rude, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that gothitelle is never going to be suspected in ou. Gothitelle isn't seen as even good by most tournament players, B rank on the viability list, etc.
 
I don't mean to be rude, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that gothitelle is never going to be suspected in ou. Gothitelle isn't seen as even good by most tournament players, B rank on the viability list, etc.
Actually when the possible suspect thread was live, Shadow Tag was one of the main things that was brought up, alongside Metagrossite, Sablenite, Landorus-I, Aegislash and Baton Pass stuff.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-post-greninja-metagame-discussion.3528675/

Gothitelle/Shadow Tag may very well be next in line for a suspect and some players see it as uncompetitive. So it's not far fetched for a ban in Tier Shift either.
 
Actually when the possible suspect thread was live, Shadow Tag was one of the main things that was brought up, alongside Metagrossite, Sablenite, Landorus-I, Aegislash and Baton Pass stuff.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-post-greninja-metagame-discussion.3528675/

Gothitelle/Shadow Tag may very well be next in line for a suspect and some players see it as uncompetitive. So it's not far fetched for a ban in Tier Shift either.
Yeah but actually reading the thread you notice that most people rate its priority for a suspect lowest or just before geopass. Also on similar previous threads such as the ones on victory road which is now gone so I can't link it, people were pretty much ridiculing the idea of a shadow tag suspect. w/e, it doesn't really matter much. I stick by my argument that we should only ban wobbuffet if it is decided it is broken, and not shadow tag.
 
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