TropicStall

[Mulligan]

TropicStall

​

Hello Smogon and welcome to my very first official RMT. I present to you a team that I used a long time ago that I want to make some final changes to before fully jumping into the 5th gen. metagame(I've been dabbling until now. I'm late, I know). This team is pretty special to me. At first, it revolved around Machamp, but after reading the Kevin Garrett Stall RMT a while back, I decided I wanted to give stall a shot and changed the focus of the team. However, I was determined to make the team my own and not just a cookie cutter copy, otherwise what's the point when I can just C/P and run KG Stall like a lot of other players did. This was my first and only attempt at a stall team, though admittedly, it's more like a semi-stall team since I've never actually stalled anyone out in the history of the team. During the teambuilding process, I wanted to challenge myself by building a "stall team without Blissey". Since I wouldn't be running Blissey, the strategy I wanted to follow was that every team member would be self-sufficient in terms of recovery. I didn't quite succeed but I got pretty close and that's one of the things I always loved about this team: nearly every member has a recovery move to stall out the opposing team while Toxic Spikes does it's thing. I also realized that I would need to have at least one status absorber on the team, but preferrably two, so the ResTalk strategy on some team members came into play. This was also my first attempt at using a defensive Fire/Water/Grass core.

The team was pretty effective for me before 5th gen. even existed in a metagame where Machamp was seemingly still everywhere, though the top players had already found ways to deal with Machamp. I don't have any major ladder accomplishments or tournament wins, but the team won more than it's fair share of matches. Unfortunately, the team as it stands has lost some of it's effectiveness and is somewhat outdated, IMHO. I'd even understand if some of you called this a "weak KG stall". It's still my hope that you Smogonites can help me make some final changes to this team though. For this RMT, I'll also be using Dream World artwork because it's pro :) . I haven't actually used this team for a while, so I will try to remember the thought processes behind why I chose who I chose as well as try to throw in some strategy tidbits. Before I ramble on too much, I present the team:

​

​

Hippowdon(F) @ Leftovers *Sandy*

• Ability: Sand Stream
• Nature: Impish (+Def, -Sp.Atk)
• EV's: 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 Sp.Def
• Moveset:
  • Stealth Rock
  • Roar
  • Earthquake
  • Slack Off

I did say that I was inspired by Kevin Garrett Stall to change the team and this was the first move I made. I used to lead with Forretress, but decided to give Hippowdon a shot. It did not dissapoint when I used the team and proved to be reliable in getting the all-important early Stealth Rock set up in most situations. I'd co-sign on any Pokémon that can get up dual hazards, especially without wasting moveslots to do so. Hippowdon does just that with Stealth Rock and Sand Stream.

I was using Specially Defensive Hippowdon for a long time, but threats such as Swords Dance Lucario were proving to be a big problem. I took ENZ0's suggestion and went with the Physically Defensive spread. It took some time to get used to since I could no longer stay in on certain special attackers, but it works beautifully with the other change I made to this team(see Gyarados below). The synergy between phazers is much better and pretty much all physical threats are handled. Slack Off is obvious and when combined with Sand Stream as an ability, it gets a clear edge over Swampert, a similar lead. Roar is necessary for phazing and is essentially free damage once hazards are up. Earthquake is general STAB and Hippo is pretty strong even with no Attack investment.

Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf *Electrolux*

• Ability: Levitate
• Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
• EV's: 248 HP / 44 Sp.Atk / 216 Spe
• Moveset:
  • Trick
    
  • Hydro Pump
  • Thunderbolt
  • Shadow Ball

Rotom-A. The best spinblocker for any (semi)stall team since it checks a lot of things very well. This used to be the standard ResTalk Rotom-H you saw on many copycat KG Stall teams that flooded the ladder for some time. However, the team was lacking speed and just a failsafe in general. I've gotten several suggestions for this slot, but after some testing, this is what I ended up with. It's a combination of what bubbly, The Proletariat, and ENZ0 suggested. Honestly, this slot is probably going to continue to change, whether it's the EV spread(I tested both this and the max SpA one and I like this better for right now) or even the set itself(tested BKC's suggestion and it was beasting for awhile). Trick is excellent for opposing Blissey or any stat-up Pokémon in general. Hydro Pump keeps Tyranitar out.

Some people already know this, and this isn't really a factor for laddering, but when I used the team on WiFi, I had to go with the standard Mono Attacker Spiritomb set with a Calm Nature due to having no access to the Rotom formes. That's for anyone that wants to use this on WiFi but may only have Diamond or Pearl. It's a decent replacement, even doing better than Rotom in specific situations and doubling as a backup sweeper. Just know that Rotom overall performs leaps and bounds better, despite Tomb not having a Pursuit weakness.

​

Forretress(M) @ Leftovers *Bob-Omb*

• Ability: Sturdy
• Nature: Careful(+Sp.Def, -Sp.Atk)
• EV's: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Sp.Def
• Moveset:
  • Spikes
  • Toxic Spikes
  • Rapid Spin
  • Payback

Forretress was on the previous team I had and is a very key member of any (semi)stall team, IMO. There really isn't too much to say about Forry, especially when it's on a team like this. It can stack multiple layers and, like Hippowdon, it gets more mileage out of it's defenses with a Specially Defensive spread. It can even spin to boot. It's the kind of Pokémon every good player loves: something that can perform multiple roles while only using one team slot.

This is another set everyone knows: max Sp.Defense and max HP to weather special attacks as best as possible, especially in the current metagame. Spikes and Toxic Spikes add to the hazard mayhem and speeds up the process of stalling the opposing team out. Rapid Spin to stay ahead of the hazard war and set opposing hazard stacking teams several turns back. Having no hazards on your side of the field is just awesome, allowing free switches for your guys to take hits, even if the only hazards the other team has is Stealth Rock and nothing else. The time has to be right to spin them away though. Payback is to scout for Ghost-type switch-ins like Gengar and other Rotom-A. Sadly, Forry is the only member of the team that doesn't have a recovery move. Rest wouldn't exactly be great anyway since I don't run a cleric. It also sucks that Forry is setup fodder for certain dangerous sweepers like Nasty Plot Infernape and Swords Dance Lucario, but there isn't much that can be done about that unless I switch to another hazard setter. I'd rather have a 'mon that can "do it all" in terms of hazards and use as few team slots as possible. Forry does that for me.

​

Heatran(F) @ Leftovers *#stark*

• Ability: Flash Fire
• Nature: Calm(+Sp.Def, -Atk)
• EV's: 252 HP / 56 Sp.Atk / 200 Sp.Def
• Moveset:
  • Rest
  • Sleep Talk
  • Lava Plume
  • Roar

Here is where you start to see the differences between KG Stall and this team. Heatran is the first piece of my FWG core. This is the standard ResTalk set and this thing was very reliable for me back in the day when I used this team heavily. Even now, it basically comes in on virtually any Zapdos and shuts it down even better than other Specially Defensive Heatrans do because of the recovery. Only something like LO Zapdos with HP Ground could beat it. Being a ResTalk set, Heatran acts as my first status absorber since, again, I didn't run Blissey. I've gone back and forth on deviating from the standard spread and just maxing out on special defense, but I've had a few situations where the extra Sp.A EV's have gotten me key KO's in games where I otherwise would've lost. I'm still able to take most Earth Powers with this spread if absolutely necessary, meaning the only way I'd stay in on one is if I needed to get rid of a major threat(Life Orb Shaymin comes to mind from the days when I first used this team). Even then, I'd consider that a last resort move and weigh all other options first since that's extremely risky. I went with Roar over Earth Power since I have a more defensive team that needs to get hazard damage. Speed shuffling is always nice to have as well with Sleep Talk eliminating the negative priority. Having Lava Plume has been very clutch for me. It doesn't happen a lot, but the 30% burn chance was a major help to putting certain fliers unaffected by Toxic Spikes on a timer, such as Gyarados(a common switch-in) and Zapdos.

​

Gyarados @ Leftovers *Leviathan*

• Ability: Intimidate
  
• Nature: Careful (+Sp.Def, -Sp.Atk)
  
• EV's: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 Sp.Def
• Moveset:
  • Rest
    
  • Sleep Talk
    
  • Waterfall
    
  • Roar

I must thank everyone that suggested ResTalk Gyarados > Slowbro to me. It has been working awesome. It still handles Machamp just fine, although I can count on one hand how many times I ran into it on the ladder. It also does much better overall against Breloom and Infernape than Slowbro did. I went with the spread BKC suggested and I haven't looked back since. This is also the main reason why I switched Hippowdon's spread as well, since I am not running the standard ResTalk Gyarados. Hippowdon takes pressure off of Gyarados for tanking physical assaults. They also work together beautifully for phazing and, as I said earlier, most physical threats are handled with just these two. There's also enough special defense to take a few weaker attacks if needed.

Anyway, this is the second piece of my FWG core. It's also my second status absorber on this team. However, the spread is different from what you're used to seeing. 64 Special Defense EV's with a Careful nature allow Gyarados to survive a +2 Grass Knot from Nasty Plot Infernape. The EV's do so much more than that though. Gyarados just takes special attacks in general better than before without really losing much on the physical side. I've surprised many opponents and they've asked me what spread I'm running when they see Gyara live a Thunderbolt from certain Pokémon.

​

Venusaur @ Black Sludge *StarTropic*

• Ability: Overgrow
• Nature: Calm (+Sp.Def, -Atk)
• EV's: 252 HP / 56 Def / 24 Sp.Atk / 176 Sp.Def
• Moveset:
  • Sleep Powder
  • Leech Seed
  • Hidden Power Fire
    
  • Energy Ball

Yet another UU Pokémon that can be effective in OU. This is the final piece of the FWG core. I believe Venusaur was actually the last team member to be added IIRC. At this point, I wanted something that could fill somewhat of a support role to the other team members while still keeping to the self-sufficient recovery strategy. I liked Venusaur at the time because, unlike the more common Grass types Celebi and Shaymin, it didn't have a weakness to U-Turners. It also keeps the Fighting resist that Celebi has, is able to absorb opposing Toxic Spikes, and has considerably more overall bulk than Roserade. The only unfortunate thing is that it doesn't resist Ground like Celebi and Shaymin do. Other things I liked are it's access to Sleep Powder to once again cripple Levitators and fliers. With TSpikes, it seems counterproductive to run Sleep Powder, but in real situations, it was extremely useful. There were times where I hadn't gotten TSpikes on the field yet, or worse, the entire opposing team was unaffected by them. I was running the Leech Seed + Protect combo before I even realized it was a popular combo when I first made the team. However, with Giga Drain being the only attack, the set was walled horribly by other Grass types with Shaymin being the most annoying of the bunch(Breloom was a pretty close second). Because of this, Hidden Power Fire got the nod over Protect. I also went with Energy Ball as well as the EV spread suggested by ENZ0. Not only does Venusaur do better against other Grass types(Breloom, in particular, is now much easier to handle), it also fares even better than it did before against offensive Water types such as Life Orb Starmie, Offensive Suicune, and Empoleon, who commonly carry an Ice move for Grass types and Dragons. I've also caught a few Forretress with this set, winning me the hazard war. I've even caught a few Scizors who were foolish enough to switch in.


Conclusion

So that's it, in a nutshell. I'm not very good at ending things that I write, but I do encourage you guys to go through the whole RMT before rating since I put some time into it. I'd really appreciate it. Hopefully it doesn't have too bad of a case of tl;dr since I tend to ramble on about things. I hope you guys enjoyed my first RMT and I plan to put up other 4th gen teams in the near future as I make the final transistion. Thanks in advance, guys!




Initial Concerns

Not having a "glue" to the team - Usually a stall team's sixth member is a failsafe like ScarfTar or possibly another revenge killer. In the past, I was able to get away without using one, but it's probably necessary to have one now. Thoughts on this?

Scarf Rotom-W has pretty much solved this issue.

Life Orb & certain setup sweepers - This is more of an acknowledging the threats are there than this being actual threats, but things like MixApe(not so much), LO Heatran and LO Shaymin still irk me to this day when I think about this team as I felt like I was put in a position where I was forced to predict if it was mid to late game so as not to lose key members. This goes back to not having a failsafe to revenge kill these threats. I used to get swept a lot by Nasty Plot Infernape and Swords Dance Lucario, but that's because I'd usually play incorrectly. That can be said for any team though. Usually, I'd stay in with the 'mon I have and either attack it or cripple it since they would always carry Life Orb and I'd just let the recoil do it's thing from there and make the right switches. It's only bad if they switch in on Forry and I usually end up losing two 'mons with the others taking damage as well, forcing them to recover when they got the chance, but they would lose their main sweeper usually.

Having a failsafe in Scarf Rotom-W has alleviated this somewhat. The change to ResTalk Gyarados and Hippowdon's spread have also helped as well as Venusaur's, making him partner better with Heatran if needed(although Heatran and Rotom-W do well anyway). Overall, the changes take the pressure off of me as a player. These will still be threats if I play wrong, however.

Both phazers are weak to Water - this makes it difficult to actually phaze something like Offensive Suicune if it comes out before I can get TSpikes down. Worst case scenario is if it's unboosted and it either comes in on Hippo/Heatran or if either of them get in safely, I can Roar it out but I take huge damage for it. Usually I'd rather try to get Toxic on it via Slowbro or Leech Seed/Sleep Powder via Venusaur(as long as Venu doesn't come in on a predicted Ice Beam). Suicune is just one example, though.

Switching to Gyarados over Slowbro was big in solving this issue as Hippowdon and Gyara have excellent type synergy. Heatran still fares as a decent phazer for special attackers not of the Water type. Venusaur and Rotom-W are backups for those, anyway.

 

[whitesocks]

Hey Chun, here are my thoughts.
So you say you want to have ResTalkers on your team, instead of having Heatran in that role, why not Gyarados? Replacing Slowbro with Gyarados will still leave you a fighting resist but he also lessens opposing Pokemon blows with his ability.

Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Waterfall
- Roar

And now for the Heatran set.

Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 156 SDef / 100 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Toxic
- Protect
- Earth Power

You still retain Heatran's great special bulk with this spread, however, you can outspead Rotom-A with no speed investment and KO weakened ones before they can land a hit on you. While this Heatran may have no means of recovery, besides protect stalling for lefties, it is still a great teammate for the rest of your guys.

 

[Bluewind]

First thing you might wanna change is Slowbro's spread into 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD with a Bold nature, as it gives you the exact same Defense with a whole 10 extra Special Defense points.

On Another note, you seem extremely weak to a slew of special sweepers. Life Orb Starmie, Calm Mind Suicune, 3 attacks Life Orb Shaymin, Life Orb Heatran and Calm Mind Celebi, for example, give your team huge amounts of problem, especially with some hazards to help them, and can all circumvent your Toxic Spikes if the need arises (or might not even need to if you aren't able to set them). I know any stall team without Blissey is fated to being weak to some of those, but it seems Venusaur is at best plugging a band aid, being eventually taken down due to the lack of a reliable recovery move or even offensive pressure. If you're still reluctant about running Blissey (which seriously is the best answer for your problems), you should at least consider a specially defensive Shaymin with Rest, a Perish Song Celebi or even Calm Mind. They don't really solve all of your problems, but at least work as backup against Grass- and Water-types (mostly the last two).

Good luck.

 

[BKC]

Breloom looks like a pain in the ass. It sets up on Hippowdon, Forretress, and Venusaur; from there, it 2HKOs everything on your team bar Rotom, who is 3HKO'd and if it's asleep, gg. Another threat is Nasty Plot Infernape; once it boosts vs. Forretress, there's nothing you can do as it sweeps you with Fire Blast / Focus Blast / Grass Knot. Finally, opposing stall teams will fuck you over because your spinblocker is completely walled by Tyranitar, and once he's Pursuited, Forretress is free to spin your hazards away at any time.

First off, go with ResTalk Gyarados over Slowbro. Gyara is still a great water-type physical wall with recovery [albeit less reliable] but he's got several advantages over Bro. His biggest benefit is acting as a counter to your biggest threat, NP Ape; with a Careful nature and 64 SpDef EVs, you will live even a +2 Grass Knot after SR damage. His Intimidate ability is another advantage - by lowering Breloom's attack, Rotom and Venusaur can tank him easily.

Speaking of Venusaur, definitely use HP Fire over Protect. Once Gyara cuts Breloom's attack, Venu walls it for days, but it won't do any good if you can't do any damage back to it. With HP Fire, Venusaur is also one less Pokemon opposing stall's Forretress can come in for free on.

Lastly, to solve the issue against stall carrying Pursuit Tyranitar, try Reflect over Shadow Ball on Rotom. If Ttar comes into Toxic Spikes, you can't burn it and you're fucked; with Reflect, you can just sit there all day and let the poison take its toll. Plus, you can't miss, which is always good.

In short:
ResTalk Gyara > Slowbro
HP Fire > Protect on Venusaur
Reflect > Shadow Ball on Rotom

Good luck with the team.

 

[bubbly]

BKC ninja'd my suggestions AGAIN...?!

To be honest, though, I'm really struggling to see how you beat a NP Infernape without trying to predict around it and let it die of recoil and sandstorm. The traditional answer on stall is to use a Choice Scarf Rotom-A along with a bulky water (especially Gyarados). Use a 252 HP / 40 SpAtk / 216 speed spread with a Timid nature. Or, if defensive Rotom is working nicely for you, just use a mixed defense RestTalk Gyarados, although there'll always be a slight weakness. Gyarados also helps against Lucario, which would be an issue otherwise .

The other problem pokemon for your team is definitely Heatran, since it completely walls Forretress, your Heatran, Venusaur and Rotom. Slowbro's a somewhat iffy counter because its special defense definitely cannot take LO or Choice Specs boosted Fire Blasts, let alone super effective HP's. RestTalk Gyara would help (although a lot of LO Tran are running HP Electric now), or if you really wanted to you could run a Milotic / Vaporeon / Slowking etc.

Final thing, if you like the idea you could try using my favourite ChestoRest Forretress. Works best on spdef Forretress to use against the usual bulky waters or defensive Rotom which go for 3HKO's on you.

PS: I don't feel I can call this a suggestion, but on a psychological level Rotom-W is always better than Rotom-H. Most players have at some time or another sent their Tyranitar in on a Rotom-W's Hydro Pump so I find it stops them getting too ballsy early on.

 

[Deleted member 94168]

Hi JackieChun, stall is a lovely playstyle, and for your first attempt at it, your team is looking pretty solid. However, there are some issues that can be addressed. The threats that generally concern the team are listed below:

Threats
Life Orb Azelf
DDNite / MixNite
SubSplit Gengar
Life Orb Heatran
Specially Based MixApe
ChestoRest Kingdra
Swords Dance Lucario
Life Orb Shaymin
Life Orb Starmie
Offensive CM Suicune

First of all, I would like to second BKC's suggestion of using RestTalk Gyarados in place of Slowbro. Gyarados checks most of the metagame threats Slowbro does cover, with the invaluable ability to phaze bulkier threats such as Kingdra out to rack up more residual damage. Gyarados also checks Lucario and Breloom decently which your team appears to have problems against. Forretress further augments Gyara's effectiveness by providing spin support and allows him more room to repeatedly come in to spam intimidate for attack drops. I am not a fan of Slowbro in general as his limited coverage and lack of a phazing move makes him set up fodder for many threats, in particularly Kingdra, and the other team members will be pressurised to maintain momentum lost from Slowbro.

Like bubbly has said, I would recommend a scarfed rotom appliance over your current set. The set I am advocating is a scarfed Rotom-W with t-bolt, hydro pump, hp ice and trick as coverage moves. Scarfed Rotom-W acts as a failsafe, prevents last mon sweeps with trick and gives you a nice secondary check to the likes of Infernape, Lucario and Starmie. It also alleviates some of the Dragonite weakness which the team has.

I find Heatran's presence on this team questionable as the threats it checks are covered by the other members. For instance, Jirachi, Jolteon and Magnezone are checked by Hippowdon and the likes of SubRoost Zapdos and Shaymin can be handled by Venusaur. Speaking of Venusaur, you'll want a moveset of Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, Roar and either of Hidden Power Fire or Sludge Bomb (with an alternate EV spread which I will list below) to batter opposing grass types. Roar gives Venusaur a niche over Celebi and with entry hazard support there is no reason not to abuse it. I would also replace Heatran with a Wish Calm Mind Jirachi to patch up the remaining weakness that you have (mainly to help against Gengar, Starmie and Suicune). Jirachi also has great synergy with Gyarados which can allow Gyara to come in and negate stealth rock damage (should forry fail to spin it away) against Ape/Tran that switch into said Rachi as it uses wish. 136 Spe EVs with a Timid nature allows Jirachi to outspeed, set up alongside opposing Suicune and come out on top.

(tl;dr version)
RestTalk Gyara > Slowbro
Scarfed Rotom-W > Rotom-H
Wish CM Rachi > Heatran
Change Venusaur's set

Here are the sets for your reference:

Hide

Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Waterfall
- Sleep Talk
- Roar


Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 44 SAtk / 216 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Hydro Pump
- Trick


Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Wish
- Psychic
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt


And not forgetting,

Venusaur (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 232 HP / 36 Def / 216 SDef / 24 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Leech Seed
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Sludge Bomb
- Roar

232 HP EVs allows Venusaur the highest possible HP while taking the least damage switching into hazards, 216 Sp.Def EVs with Calm reaches the last bonus point available, 24 Speed EVs to speed creep RestTalk Gyarados and other defensive threats so you can phaze them away / leech seed / sleep powder first and the remainder into Defense should you have to take a focus punch from Breloom.

That's all from me, good luck with your team!

 

[ENZ0]

Hi JackieChun,

Cool team. Full stall is limited in the variety of pokemon you can choose from, but you use interesting options that can safely fall back on the solid stature of FWG cores. As you mentioned, the team is slow, which leaves you with trouble against some common offensive threats. Ironically, you have trouble yourself when facing opposing stall teams. I'll try to improve the buffer on offensive threats, while adding in some surprises to diminish opposing stall teams.

I'll start off by mentioning your offensive weaknesses, and build off them for improvements. The offensive threats I found were: CM Celebi, Agility Empoleon, Infernape, ChestoRest DD Kingdra, SD Lucario, RestTalk CM Suicune, DD Tyranitar, Substitute Gengar, TauntToxic Gliscor, Shaymin, and LO Starmie. I want to suggest a compound change for Hippowdon and Venusaur to take care of Agility Empoleon, SD Lucario, RestTalk CM Suicune, DD Tyranitar, Substitute Gengar, and LO Starmie. I suggest a change in spreads, as follows: Hippowdon | Impish Nature | 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 SpD and Venusaur | Calm Nature | 252 HP / 56 Def / 24 SpA / 176 SpA | Sleep Powder / Energy Ball / Hidden Power Fire / Leech Seed. Your current Venusaur spread gets 2HKOed by an unboosted Ice Beam from Empoleon and doesn't break its substitute with Giga Drain most of the time; the change I suggested will remedy that by letting you come in, break the sub, and even have time to Leech Seed it. It handles CM Suicune much better by backing on more SpD bulk and a stronger grass move, same goes with LO Starmie. Substitute Gengar can get shuffled by your current Hippowdon set, but SpD Venusaur can actually kill it. Also, Shaymin doesn't walk all over Venusaur now. Take note that Hidden Power Fire will be priceless against opposing stall teams, having the power to impede opposing hazard setup by hitting Forretress and Skarmory hard. Moving on to the Hippowdon end, SpD Hippowdon is great, but I feel that a physically defensive set will relieve the pressure from Slowbro(or whatever water you choose). SD Lucario and DD Tyranitar have the power of sweeping through your team, the physically defensive set mends that. It also takes Close Combats from Infernape much better now, but still not a stable check for the myriad of Infernape sets out there.

To give your team a push further, I will have to bandwagon on the Choice Scarf Rotom(W) suggestion, even though I hate what it has done to DPP OU teams recently. As you said and as I said before, your team needs speed. Choice Scarf Rotom(W) will finish checking CM Celebi, Infernape, DD Kingdra, Gliscor, and provide a trick for the annoying Blissey. Not to mention, it gives you another check to the pokemon I mentioned before in the compound change. I suggest using Rotom(W) @ Choice Scarf | Timid Nature | 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe | Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball / Hydro Pump / Trick. This set also serves as a great late-game sweeper after certain opposing resistances are out of the way. Please make sure that you lay out at least one set of Toxic Spikes to further help against CM Celebi, Shaymin, and countless other pokemon affected by it. I usually have nitpicks, but your team seems to ignore them, which is great!

Hope this helps, good luck man!

 

[Mulligan]

Wow. I got a lot of excellent rates. Just wanted to give a big thanks to all of you guys who rated the team thus far and to let you know that I'm currently testing the changes you guys have suggested. When I get through, I will update the main post. Again, thanks a bunch guys!

 

[sandshrewz]

Hello there! Since the others already gave suggestions, I can't think of anymore changes to be made. I am going to rate your rmt not just based on your team, mainly on your presentation. I really liked reading your rmt. Unlike most rmts, your's is really in depth. I see you really spent a lot of effort into it. You have wonderful presentation, going beyons the usual sprites and going to search for other pictures. You understand your team completely which makes up for the lack of a threat list since your rmt already touches on the threats. You amde an apt title, making it standout against other rmts. Tropic I guess refer to your FWG core especially venusaur right? The huge pictures in place of sprites were very nice! Where did you find them? The in depth quality and eye pleasing RMT is really great! This is the standard of rmt everyone should follow! Now I shall rate your RMT. I give 9/10. The only missing point is just that as nice as your team is, there is still some room for improvement like they suggested. That isn't a huge problem so consider it 10/10! Now where can I find the luvdisc button? :D

 

[Vitalise]

hey JackieChun, Nice soild team you got there, later in the post you mentioned about having a Revenge killer for the 6th slot, you could try Scarf Flygon or a Choice Banded Scizor both of them are top revenge killer's in DPP OU.

 

[Mulligan]

Yeah, I know I'm late, but I finally got around to making changes to the OP. The changes are in gold. Hopefully, this is the first and only bump I have to do as the team is pretty much done, I feel.

@ whitesocks: Appreciate the help. You and many others on here suggested ResTalk Gyara, so I went with that. Unfortunately, I never got around to really test the Heatran set you suggested, though I may still do that. ResTalk has been working fine, though.

@ Bluewind: Thanks for the Slowbro suggestion. You're absolutely right as far as your spread goes. I did end up going with ResTalk Gyarados, who just outright performs better. But if I ever consider bulky Slowbro again for any team, I'm definitely going with the spread you have.

@ BKC: Careful ResTalk Gyara has been a beast! NP Infernape has been rare for me now, but it takes weaker Thunderbolts like a boss. I also tested Reflect on ResTalk Rotom-H and it worked awesome. I felt I needed some speed however in case things got hectic, so I switched to Scarf Rotom-W. I will go back to Rotom-H if I need to later on.

@ bubbly: Thanks for the rate. I did try Rest with Chesto Berry on Forretress for a little while and, although I caught a few people by surprise and it allowed Forry to last longer, I often missed having Payback to catch spinblockers on the switch. A few players also took advantage of the fact I didn't have Payback and got a crucial free turn out of it.

@ Proletariat: Thanks for taking the time to leave your suggestions. I went with the Rotom-W like you, bubbly, and ENZ0 suggested and I'm going with your spread for now. I may go back to HP Ice if I find Dragonite to be too troublesome. I don't remember running into many IIRC, which is VERY surprising. I actually did OK between Heatran and Gyarados and getting it phazed out/healing before it could set up or do anything.

@ ENZ0: You had some really nice changes. I ended up going with most of what you said. It took me a little while, but the team does matchup better against other teams in general due to what you suggested.

Also, I want to thank everyone else that posted here, whether it was praising the RMT or making more suggestions. Appreciate it guys.