What? Weavile?

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firecape

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Weavile.
It's a pokemon not seen much since Garchomp was banished to ubers but it is still a very potent pokemon. In the uber environment i never see anyone using Weavile and im astonished. Weavile is a great pokemon for several reasons in the uber environment.

Reasons to use Weavile:#1 Its dual STAB hits all ubers but 7 (Kyogre Manaphy Ho-oh Dialga Palkia Arceus Darkrai) However it can learn Low Kick which reduces that to 4 not hit super effectively, only 2 of which are really common.

#2 It has great speed and good attack coupled with the fact the ubers environment is a specially based one means that most will have special defence Ev's not defence (if any defensive evs)

#3 With SR and 1-2 layers of spikes and adamant nature it has the ability to 2hitk0 pretty much every Pokemon commonly seen in ubers except for a few.

The set:

WEAVILE @ Choice Band
Adamant / Jolly Nature
EVs: 4hp/252att/252speed
~Ice Punch
~Night Slash
~Ice Shard
~Low Kick

(now the nature here is a toss up, adamant you score some kills you couldn't normally get with jolly, however, with adamant you will be 1 speed lower then a max speed 110 base speed with speed boosting nature, namely Latias/Latios/Lugia, however read on.)

This set is incredibly potent and has multiple uses. It can function to Ice Shard any Rayquaza for a OHKO unless it has significant defensive investments, and it always outspeed an extreme speed from SD ray, and DD sets don't normally carry ExtremeSpeed. Its a good revenge killer as it outspeeds most of the tier with even adamant, jolly even more so. The only things that can outspeed an Adamant Weavile are Choice Scarfers and speed+ natured 110 or more, and a Jolly is only outspeed by choice scarfers, +speed Shaymin and Mewtwo, and Deoxys, and it ties with +speed Darkrai.

Now the big question is Adamant or Jolly. Adamant allows you some kills you couldn’t get otherwise but jollys main attraction is the fact that weavile can revenge kill a latias/latios with any amount of calm minds. However adamant also for OHKOes/2HKOes that would not be possible, for instance night slash on Kyogre with SR and 1 layer of spikes.

CALCS (With Adamant Nature)

Ice Punch calcs:


nasty plot darkrai that thinks it can absorb a night slash: 73.8% - 87.2%
a with 1 layer or spikes and SR thats nearly always a 1hitk0

Support groudon (252hp/32def): 68.8% - 81.7%
with 1 layers of spikes and Sr it has a strong possibility of 1hitk0, but you will want to try to catch in on the switch thinking it can tank you, it also is a 100% 1hitk0 with 2 layers of spikes and SR.

The great wall set on giratina: 48.1% - 57.3%
2HKO after SR 100%

Lugia great wall: 69.2% - 82.2%
has a chance to OHKO with SR, although it is hit super effectively by both of Weavile stabs so don't expect to see this come out

hasty Palkia: 65.4% - 77.9%
always outsped and 2hitk0 (watch out for choice scarf)


These are just on a few pokes that people may think is able to take weaviles attacks, it is also worth noting that low kick hits most ubers not hit super effectively by night slash harder.

Ice Shard: theres no really need for calcs as you will not be using it on anything but rayquaza, garchomp, and shaymin usually and its always a 1hitk0 against those, although it is notable to say it has a very small chance to KO Latias after sr and does 81.5% - 96% to Latios, meaning a possible kill after SR.

Night slash:
latios: 141.7% - 167.5% haha....
Latias: 118.5% - 139.2% once again..haha
Boosting tank kyogre: 38.2% - 44.9% now this means after sr and 1 layer of spikes its always 2hitkod, meaning kyogre cant safetly switch in.
Physically defensive mewtwo: 74% - 88%, a very strong possibility of 1hitk0 with 1 layer of spikes and sr, however it is unrealistic seeing as it outspeeds weavile with most sets.
Ho-oh: 47.7% - 56% this means with sr it has a strong possibility of 1hitkoing, however weavile is always 1hitk0d by sacred fire so its not recommended to stay in...unless you hit it on the switch.
Baton pass mew behind reflect: 44.6% - 52.5% meaning its 2hitkod with sr, so if you see a screener put up a screen switch to weavile as they put up the second, and night slash as mew comes in and it wont get to pass anything.

Low kick:
Support Dialga: 86.1% - 101.5%
Low kick on no def no hp kyogre: 64.9% - 76.6% chance to 1hitk0 with sr and 2 layer of spikes
Low kick on Heatran with no def or hp evs: 119.5% - 141.2% (boom headshot)

Low kick on scizor: 49.6% - 58.3%, it’s a 2hitk0 with sr but not recommended to stay in as weavile is 1hitk0d by bullet punch, however, I’ve noticed a lot of people u-turn expecting a switch so if you can predict correctly you may kill it.

Low kick on Metagross: 44.2% - 52.2, 2hitk0 with SR, but watch out for bullet punch, and its not recommended to stay in unless you catch it on the switch

Another move worth mentioning is Pursuit as it can catch some fleeing pokemon for some nice damage, KOing the Lati twins and Lugia. However if you mispredict and they stay in it could be the end of Weavile.

Now i just listed the switch ins you will sometimes get to Weavile and the things it doesn't 1hitk0 with super effective attacks most of the other stuff not listen that's supereffective is a OHKO.

Also as you can see Weavile benifits greatly from entry hazards, so Deoxys-S would be a good lead, and a spin blocker would be a good teammate as well, such as Giratina-O.
Giratina-o is worth mentioning because it has pretty good synergy with Weavile a protects from pokemon rapid spinning away the entry hazards Weavile loves so much and in turn Weavile can switch into the Dark and Ghost and ice attacks Giratina-o attracts, although don’t expect it to survive a Dragon attack. And in turn Giratina-o is immune to Weaviles 4x fighting weakness while resisting fire and bug and being neutral to rock and steel. Another teammate worth mentioning is Forretress. Weavile has a weakness to SR reducing its ability to switch out after its revenge killed something.

Another set worth mentioning is the Swords Dance set, it has potential to rip teams apart, but I haven’t tested it yet and will have more to say once I have, feedback from anyone that has tested it would be nice.

Another set that has a possibility is the Life Orb set. I haven’t tested this set either, but I think it has some merit as you can freely switch attacks while doing sizable damage.


Conclusion
I would like to discuss other viable sets for Weavile and the advantages/disadvantages of Jolly over Adamant. Also (obviously) its viability in Ubers.

(thread approved by Jibaku)
 
Jolly: Ties Darkrai and beats Lati@s

Adamant: possibility of koing Ho-oh, Mew behind screens, 2hkoing Scizor (not especially useful), and Giratina.

So, either sacrfice beating the best Weavile targets in the tier or lose out on a few important kos.
 
Is outspeeding the Lati twins really necessary though? Latias doesn't really run max speed, so Weavile can outspeed it regardless of nature, and the same could be said of Lugia. And with Timid Latios being OHKOd by Adamant CB Ice Shard over 50% of the time (with Stealth Rock), Adamant may be worth it. You no longer tie with Darkrai, but still.
 



Night slash:
latios: 141.7% - 167.5% haha....
Latias: 118.5% - 139.2% once again..haha
Boosting tank kyogre: 38.2% - 44.9% now this means after sr and 1 layer of spikes its always 2hitkod, meaning kyogre cant safetly switch in.
Physically defensive mewtwo: 74% - 88%, a very strong possibility of 1hitk0 with 1 layer of spikes and sr, however it is unrealistic seeing as it outspeeds weavile with most sets. This set only runs enough speed to beat Garchomp.
Ho-oh: 47.7% - 56% this means with sr it has a strong possibility of 1hitkoing, however weavile is always 1hitk0d by sacred fire so its not recommended to stay in...unless you hit it on the switch.
Baton pass mew behind reflect: 44.6% - 52.5% meaning its 2hitkod with sr, so if you see a screener put up a screen switch to weavile as they put up the second, and night slash as mew comes in and it wont get to pass anything. Mewtwo typically explodes after setting up screens, so Mew is almost never caught on the switch.
 
Weavile must always be Jolly, preiod; also, my experience made me feel Pursuit is even more of a neccesity in Ubers than OU, as you can virtually grant a sweep with Kyogre or Mewtwo without having to make a Calm Mind race with Latias or Latios...

@Life Orb
252Atk/6SpD/252Spe
Jolly nature
~Ice Shard
~Pursuit
~Low Kick
~Ice Punch/Night Slash

So it's basically the same Weavile set as in OU.

I also belive Swords Dance and anti-lead sets as in OU, once again, could work well; one could put to use Pursuit Deoxys-A to eliminate Mewtwo in that case, maybe on a physical Deoxys-A set, such as Ice Punch/Pursuit/Psycho Boost/Superpower?
 

firecape

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Night slash:
latios: 141.7% - 167.5% haha....
Latias: 118.5% - 139.2% once again..haha
Boosting tank kyogre: 38.2% - 44.9% now this means after sr and 1 layer of spikes its always 2hitkod, meaning kyogre cant safetly switch in.
Physically defensive mewtwo: 74% - 88%, a very strong possibility of 1hitk0 with 1 layer of spikes and sr, however it is unrealistic seeing as it outspeeds weavile with most sets. This set only runs enough speed to beat Garchomp.
Ho-oh: 47.7% - 56% this means with sr it has a strong possibility of 1hitkoing, however weavile is always 1hitk0d by sacred fire so its not recommended to stay in...unless you hit it on the switch.
Baton pass mew behind reflect: 44.6% - 52.5% meaning its 2hitkod with sr, so if you see a screener put up a screen switch to weavile as they put up the second, and night slash as mew comes in and it wont get to pass anything. Mewtwo typically explodes after setting up screens, so Mew is almost never caught on the switch.
This is true, but you make it sound as if Mewtwo is the only screen user in ubers, and while weavile is most certainly Kod by Mewtwo's selfdestruct, it can do fine against uxie and latios if it is running SD set

And speaking of SD i have begun to test it, and it works pretty well as a lategame sweeper but dont reveal it early as all it takes is a bullet punch or really any priority move to end Weavile's chances of a sweep, however more testing is needed.
 

Chou Toshio

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The thing is a lot of the positives said about Weavile in Uber are echoed in OU. Rotom, Salamence, Latias, Gengar, Starmie . . . there are a lot of top OU pokemon that Weavile really fucks up. So why isn't it a top OU poke itself?

Because, the king walks all over it and craps on its face (Scizor). Unlike most other psychic/darks in Ubers, Weavile can't really hurt bulkier Scizor builds, whether it's on the switch in or just 1-on-1. There's a big jump in danger for scizor between Lati@s' STAB dragon attacks and Weavile's Ice Shard (Adamant CB, predict the scizor Switch and Low Kick seems a bit unreasonable to me). Meanwhile Weavile is 1hko'd by U-Turn. Basically, Weavile is a big fat invitation for the king to come in and spam its favorite move with almost complete impunity.

If there is one move in Pokemon you do NOT want to let the enemy spam with impunity, it's STAB U-Turn coming from 130 base attack. It's a really nasty situation. You don't switch, you die without really doing anything. You switch, you eat the U-Turn and let the opponent freely pick something ELSE that kicks your ass.

Of course Metagross, Jirachi, Heatran and most steels all provide weavile some trouble. But, so what? Every poke has checks and counters (even Kyogre, sort of). Just Scizor makes the situation particularly awful, because not only does it counter you, but it pretty much ensures that you are stuck between dying and getting your ass kick'd even more. It's not even like Pursuit where after making the kill, they're stuck into a shitty move-- they kill you and then get to pick something else to leave in! There's no "predicting" your way out of it-- you're taking it up the ass no matter what you do~!


Scizor isn't #1 in Ubers, but from what I understand he's definitely not a no-show. That makes using Weavile a serious liability. It's true that he hits most Uber pokemon very hard, but the one pokemon who makes his life hell in OU definitely follows him up to Ubers.
 

shrang

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Weavile does make a great check remover for many of Ubers big threats, which makes him very viable, I guess. Removing Lati@s so CM Kyogre can stomp the hell out of a team is one great example. Eating up Giratina-O can allow Forretress to spin, which consequently allows Ho-oh to annoy like a maniac. Scizor does make Weavile his bitch, but if Weavile has Pursuit'd something to death and done his job, you can let Weavile get U-Turn'd and bring in your own counter to the one Poke Scizor just U-Turn'd to.

Anyways, Weavile can also run an Anti-lead set with Fake-Out + Night Slash/Low Kick, mainly so Deo-A gets no more than SR up.
 
Weavile does make a great check remover for many of Ubers big threats, which makes him very viable, I guess. Removing Lati@s so CM Kyogre can stomp the hell out of a team is one great example. Eating up Giratina-O can allow Forretress to spin, which consequently allows Ho-oh to annoy like a maniac. Scizor does make Weavile his bitch, but if Weavile has Pursuit'd something to death and done his job, you can let Weavile get U-Turn'd and bring in your own counter to the one Poke Scizor just U-Turn'd to.

Anyways, Weavile can also run an Anti-lead set with Fake-Out + Night Slash/Low Kick, mainly so Deo-A gets no more than SR up.
Deoxys-A doesn't get anymore than Sr set up anyways, all that combo does is to ensure that Weavile gets through unscathed.
 

Chou Toshio

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Weavile does make a great check remover for many of Ubers big threats, which makes him very viable, I guess. Removing Lati@s so CM Kyogre can stomp the hell out of a team is one great example. Eating up Giratina-O can allow Forretress to spin, which consequently allows Ho-oh to annoy like a maniac. Scizor does make Weavile his bitch, but if Weavile has Pursuit'd something to death and done his job, you can let Weavile get U-Turn'd and bring in your own counter to the one Poke Scizor just U-Turn'd to.

Anyways, Weavile can also run an Anti-lead set with Fake-Out + Night Slash/Low Kick, mainly so Deo-A gets no more than SR up.
Only problem with that is weavile's purpose becomes exclusively to pursuit certain targets, at which point, you're competing with other pursuiters like ttar, scizor and metagross, who can potentially run scarf if they wanted to be fast pursuit users.
 
Only problem with that is weavile's purpose becomes exclusively to pursuit certain targets, at which point, you're competing with other pursuiters like ttar, scizor and metagross, who can potentially run scarf if they wanted to be fast pursuit users.
TTar, scizor, and metagross all tend to be extremely bulky and slow. Faster metagross sets have no room for pursuit. They all prefer a choice band to strengthen said pursuit rather than speed, because if they switch out, that band could mean the difference between the target being ko'ed, and living. This is especially true in Scizor's case, if the encore doesn't last 6 tickles, he'll need a choice band to ko Lugia.
 
Weavile must always be Jolly, preiod; also, my experience made me feel Pursuit is even more of a neccesity in Ubers than OU, as you can virtually grant a sweep with Kyogre or Mewtwo without having to make a Calm Mind race with Latias or Latios...
Why? Adamant presents enough power to kill some things (Latios) as IcyMan described and it is unlikely you will actually fight a Latias with max Speed (Why not just use Latios at that point?). I would not even trust Jolly Weavile against Darkrai because you could very well be losing the Speed Tie anyway. Add on to that 50/50 shot how bulky Darkrai is and the fact that it could have Brick Break / Focus Blast, and I would just rather have a decent Darkrai counter to defend myself with than risking it all on Weavile, who I can use to force switches from Groudon, Rayquaza, etc.
 

Chou Toshio

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TTar, scizor, and metagross all tend to be extremely bulky and slow. Faster metagross sets have no room for pursuit. They all prefer a choice band to strengthen said pursuit rather than speed, because if they switch out, that band could mean the difference between the target being ko'ed, and living. This is especially true in Scizor's case, if the encore doesn't last 6 tickles, he'll need a choice band to ko Lugia.
Here's the problem: How does Choice Band Weavile compare to Choice Scarf Tyranitar, Metagross or Scizor?

Weavile's ATK (and speed if jolly) is way more powerful, but Scarftar's survivability (and lack of SR weak) are extremely attractive. Being able to switch into attacks and make the kill is a huge plus on a trapper. There is a huge difference between having to sacrifice a teammate to make the kill and being able to switch in and make the kill independently. While Weavile is always playing the catch-up game, a Scarf-tar (or metagross/scizor) can take the initiative to make the kill without having to sacrifice any of its teammates. That my friends, is big.

That's not to say that Scarftar/metagross/scizor are good sets, it's just something to think about when considering Weavile. Even if Metagross/Scizor/TTar have to use CB to take the target down, you still have to consider whether they do this more or less dependably than weavile, as even taking a hit or 2, I'd say a 50% Metagross still has a lot more survivability than a 100% Weavile.

Speaking of survivability with trappers, if Weavile's main job is just to take down 1 certain problem pokemon for a team, you kind of have to worry if you're being out-done by Wobb of all things.

Fast and frail is only a really good formula for pokemon who have the power and coverage to leave huge dents in pretty much anything. Infernape in OU and Deoxys-A in Ubers are good examples. Even after making a kill, they're not exactly "vulnerable," since there's very little that can take them down without risking taking a huge beating in the process. Weavile lacks the sheer power to accomplish this, and is basically set-up fodder after making a kill.
 

shrang

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So, on the Adamant vs Jolly, it's just something up to the user, I guess. Here's what Jolly Weavile outspeeds:

379Heatran 77 Neutral +1 252
375
Kingdra85 Neutral +1 176
372Arceus, Dugtrio120 +Speed None 252
364Tyranitar 61 +Speed +1 252
360
Magnezone, Abomasnow 60 +Speed +1 252
359
Mewtwo130 Neutral None 252
353
Shaymin-S127 Neutral None 252
350Latias, Latios, Lugia, Jumpluff, Gengar110 +Speed None 252

So, pretty much, the only things worth outspeeding in this bit of the Speed tiers are +1 Kingdra (Outside rain) and Scarftar (Mewtwo and Shaymin-S pretty much never run neutral these days, all are intent on outspeeding Darkrai. Lugia, unless is an Offensive-CM set, will pretty much never run max speed (Most put on enough speed to outrun Jolly Garchomp). Latias is the same, and Latios, I think someone noted earlier can be OHKO'd by CB Ice Shard. However, one thing I want to stress: It is quite important to tie with Darkrai. Yes, it's a 50/50 chance, but you don't want Darkrai to get going, and that 50% can easily mean the difference between winning and losing. While it isn't something you want to depend on, it can be a okay 2nd check Darkrai check if it needs to be.
 
I would say weavile is more of a sweeper. I know a couple of people using weavile in uber and non-uber environments and they use them pretty sufficiently
 

Chou Toshio

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How the heck can it sweep? I've never seen a weavile kill more than 1 pokemon in a row-- it just doesn't have the power and coverage to achieve that (unless the other team is already sufficiently beaten, but then in that case anything can sweep).

A "sweep" in the true sense of the terminology usually requires a set up as well. Weavile's only means of setting up is Swords Dance, which is not going to cut it. Weavile's fast, but not fast enough (especially in Ubers) to prevent it from being revenge killed by faster pokemon or scarf-users (this is why SD/Nasty Plot Infernape fails in OU). Unlike SD Luke or Ray, Ice Shard simply is not powerful enough to pull off the priority-based sweep either.
 

firecape

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How the heck can it sweep? I've never seen a weavile kill more than 1 pokemon in a row-- it just doesn't have the power and coverage to achieve that (unless the other team is already sufficiently beaten, but then in that case anything can sweep).

A "sweep" in the true sense of the terminology usually requires a set up as well. Weavile's only means of setting up is Swords Dance, which is not going to cut it. Weavile's fast, but not fast enough (especially in Ubers) to prevent it from being revenge killed by faster pokemon or scarf-users (this is why SD/Nasty Plot Infernape fails in OU). Unlike SD Luke or Ray, Ice Shard simply is not powerful enough to pull off the priority-based sweep either.
Explain yourself please, swords dance is a fine set up move, one of the best in the game, weavile outspeeds the majority of the uber tier, and weavile has a higher base attack then luke, and access to stabs that hit the majority of the ubers tier supereffectively. So what are you talking about when you say it doesn't have sufficient coverage?

And most scarf/priority users are obviously, (omg a scizor i wonder what it is going to use) so you dont stay in on them obviously.
 

shrang

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Weavile has higher base attack than Lucario, yes, but his attacks are piss weak. His strongest attack is probably Low Kick (LOL), which is only 120 base power maximun. His main STABs simply don't cut it. On the other hand, Lucario has access to Close Combat (Which after STAB is 180 Base power), and a stronger priority move. So basically, expecting Weavile to sweep in Ubers (He doesn't even sweep well in OU), is like expecting Electivire to sweep in OU. It's not going to happen unless you're fighting a noob, or if you've removed/weakened a whole bunch of checks, meaning you're cleaning up instead of sweeping anyway.
 

Chou Toshio

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I'm about to rant, so if you want to just get a summary, just read Shank's post above.^ No matter who is straightening it out, bottom line is that Weavile-as-sweeper is a joke. Weavile needs to stick to stick to revenge/trap with a little (very little) potential for wall break. Set Up Sweeper = fail.


Let's lay down, and admit, that Swords Dance/Nasty Plot are extremely overrated, and you'll notice that for all the hubbub they get, they see very little play. Partly (especially with NP) it's because of very limited dispersal, but the greater issue is that most pokemon simply don't have what it takes to pull it off successfully.

First of all:

Finding a turn to set up is extremely valuable. Essentially, (especially with something like Weavile) you need almost a completely free turn in order to set up. Completely free turns are extremely difficult to come by, and they're even harder to purposefully make. So, essentially using such a turn to set up, and failing to sweep represents a huge waste, a huge loss. Even if you kill 1 pokemon, if you can't kill the second (and having your sweep stopped) you're facing a huge loss due to opportunity cost.

This opportunity cost is present because you always have to consider "If pokemon X had been given this turn to set up, would it have succeeded to sweep where Weavile failed?"

Keeping that in mind, how likely is Weavile to sweep once it has a swords dance under its belt?

I order to sweep, whether you are boosting your offensive stats or not, the sweep has to be supported by Speed or Bulk (or some combination). Weavile obviously has zero bulk, so it has to depend purely on speed.

Even after it sets up, it still is only using a natural level of speed, 383. For a sweeper dependent on speed, that's still way too slow. To pull off a purely speed-based sweep (as opposed to one based on bulk) you have to be faster than the tier's revenge killers. Problem is that the choice scarfers are playing in a whole different level of speed, with Kyogre, Dialga and Palkia in the 400's. Then there are pokemon like Mewtwo (the tier's 5th most common pokemon) who outspeed Weavile naturally (not to mention Mewtwo has better natural bulk than Swampert). Then there are priority users. Scizor and Metagross (who runs bullet punch appx 30%) are again there to stop Weavile's fun.


The bottom line is to pull off a speed-based sweep, you need unnaturally high speed, and weavile's natural speed just doesn't cut it (even in OU). Because of this, while Swords Dance/Nasty Plot may look impressive at first, in the history of 4th gen there have been very few sets able to use it successfully. Almost all of them relying on extremely powerful priority moves, and supported by Bulk/Resistances in addition to speed.

Scizor with nice resistances, STAB Technician Bullet Punch, above average bulk and roost in OU, and even then it's never been as popular or successful as the Choice sets.

Lucario with awesome resistances to use to help it set up, Extreme Speed and almost the perfect supporting STAB in CC (again in OU). Even SD Luke though is just mediocre at best in Ubers.

In Ubers, Rayquaza is probably the best example with Extreme Speed and 150 base attack. Thing is though that Ray, unlike Weavile, has 105/90/90 defenses (better than swampert again!). While that's definitely "frail" for Uber standards its more than enough that Rayquaza isn't dependent purely on speed-- it can take a hit or two, meaning its a Bulk + Speed supported sweep. Even better it has a great immunity in Ground to help setup even more, and extremely powerful moves like Outrage/D-Meteor, EQ and Overheat to back its priority move.

Garchomp in OU, is probably THE ONLY successful non-priority Swords Dancer in the entire history of 4th gen's OU (I believe there's no example at all in Ubers, with Groudon as the closest candidate for such a title). Near-perfect dual STAB, 130 base attack backed by swampert-like base defenses and 102 speed. Garchomp had the typing and toughness to be EV'd as an OU wall, with defensive stats similar to Swampert, but it was running around at speeds faster than dominant set-up sweepers like Salamence, meaning it had both toughness and speed to support its sweep.

Not to mention nice resistances including an immunity to Thunderwave and Sand Veil to help it set up even better. Needless to say, very few non-priority pokemon have anything like that going for them and even then, SD Garchomp isn't taking Ubers by storm anytime soon.

I suppose you could say Tail Glow Manaphy was another successful +2 offensive stat sweeper in OU, but again its success was dependent on its 100 / 100 / 100 defenses (which are ridiculously over powered in OU) to be dependable. Well that combined with the fact that Water is a near-broken type and Bulky Waters have always been a very successful platform from which to set up in OU. Come to think of it, it's too bad Grass is such a shitty-ass type or SD Celebi (with natural cure and rest or baton pass too!) would be amazing.

When you get down to UU, there's some more examples like Missy and Venusaur, but again they're sets depending on bulk and immunities to make things happen.


Weavile's got only his speed to carry him, and it's not enough. Even when you do get off Swords Dance succesfully, you immediately run into problems as to what moves to sweep with.

There's Ice Shard, Ice Punch, Night Slash, Pursuit and Low Kick.

Right off the bat you're probably not using Pursuit, as its utility in sweeping is extremely limited. BUT if you do, that means you're already limiting the overall utility of Weavile a lot! Seeing as Pursuit has been established as one of the main reasons to run weavile at all throughout the thread, giving it up (and essentially limiting yourself to sweeping) seriously makes you start questioning the value of the set.

Weavile needs priority, so Ice Shard gets the slot, but then you're left facing Groudon without Ice Punch . . . Ice Shard's piddley 40 Base Power will simply fail to get the job done, even with STAB.

Ultimately, you will be left to deal with the fact that Night Slash and Low Kick are not exactly powerhouse moves to be depending on either, not in sweeping the typical Uber pokemon, and even less dependable when considering random OU/UU appearences like Infernape, Lanturn, Quagsire or Toxicroak. Of course none of those individually will see much use, but as a collective, random lower-tier pokes with good synergy with Ubers are something that does occur and has to be considered when building for ubers. You can't see the forest for the trees, and there's more to Uber than just the Uber pokemon. Weavile's got problems in OU, and those problems don't just disappear by going UP a tier.


While there's a lot of things I've talked about, and a lot of problems I've mentioned, probably SD Weavile's biggest problem boils down to this:


In the ENTIRE history of 4th Gen, no matter WHAT tier, there has never been a successful SD/NP sweeper reliant purely on speed. It is simply that difficult to pull off consistently.

Until the day they give something like a Ninjask or Electrode evolution a 100+ attacking stat, I doubt that's about to change.
 

shrang

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Completely free turns are extremely difficult to come by, and they're even harder to purposefully make. So, essentially using such a turn to set up, and failing to sweep represents a huge waste, a huge loss. Even if you kill 1 pokemon, if you can't kill the second (and having your sweep stopped) you're facing a huge loss due to opportunity cost.
Just a quick nitpick, free turns are easier to come by in Ubers because you can use Wobbuffet, but unlike other sweepers like Rayquaza and Lucario, Weavile MUST have a support move like Thunder Wave (Use Safeguard on Wobb) or Stealth Rock Encored in order for him to come in safely. Ray can have stuff like EQ being Encored, while Lucario can abuse his resistances (Mainly to stuff like Ice Beam and Shadow Ball) being Encored to allow him in. Weavile, lacking in the resistances and immunities department (No-one use Psychic moves), packing near the same crappy defenses as Lucario, can't find a way in to set-up.
 
Just a quick nitpick, free turns are easier to come by in Ubers because you can use Wobbuffet, but unlike other sweepers like Rayquaza and Lucario, Weavile MUST have a support move like Thunder Wave (Use Safeguard on Wobb) or Stealth Rock Encored in order for him to come in safely. Ray can have stuff like EQ being Encored, while Lucario can abuse his resistances (Mainly to stuff like Ice Beam and Shadow Ball) being Encored to allow him in. Weavile, lacking in the resistances and immunities department (No-one use Psychic moves), packing near the same crappy defenses as Lucario, can't find a way in to set-up.
Even after the boost, Weavile still can't defeat Scizor, or scarfed mons, such as Palkia or Dialga. Weavile maybe handy because of his stabs, but seems majorly outclassed, in terms of sweeping to likes of Rayquaza and Garchomp. Unlike Ray and Chomp, Weavile needs too much team support in order to function.
 
Ahem, Ahem.... 2 Ice moves?!?! I'd say replace Ice Punch/Shard with Swords Dance. If you're pretty suspicious of being OHKO'd, just Baton Pass. But whatever you do, 2 of the same type of moves (Physical/Special/Status and Set-Up Moves) which are both same type (Water,Fire,Psychic,etc.) is FAIL.
 
Ahem, Ahem.... 2 Ice moves?!?! I'd say replace Ice Punch/Shard with Swords Dance. If you're pretty suspicious of being OHKO'd, just Baton Pass. But whatever you do, 2 of the same type of moves (Physical/Special/Status and Set-Up Moves) which are both same type (Water,Fire,Psychic,etc.) is FAIL.


the Reason Weavile uses 2 ice mves is to kill stuff that it's faster then with ice punch and hit stuff thats faster then it with ice shard
 
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