XY NU Theorymon Discussion

[Karane]

Ariados got a big buff this gen. While I doubt it'll move up to the higher tiers it has now access to new tools such as Sticky web, Megahorn and the buffed poison typing. It also has its niche with baton passing shenanigans but I'm not 100% sure with its legality right now. Its access to those moves plus two decent priorities (Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch) to patch up its sub-par speed. Anyone else thinks that Ariados will be a legitimate threat this gen?

 

[Kanwe]

Ariados got a big buff this gen. While I doubt it'll move up to the higher tiers it has now access to new tools such as Sticky web, Megahorn and the buffed poison typing. It also has its niche with baton passing shenanigans but I'm not 100% sure with its legality right now. Its access to those moves plus two decent priorities (Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch) to patch up its sub-par speed. Anyone else thinks that Ariados will be a legitimate threat this gen?

The only thing with ariados is its awful speed, nonexistant bulk, and an offensive stat which is only mediocre. Sticky Web means it'll obviously get some usage but ultimately its low base stats are a horrible letdown of its awesome movepool.

 

[Mistrals]

The only thing with ariados is its awful speed, nonexistant bulk, and an offensive stat which is only mediocre. Sticky Web means it'll obviously get some usage but ultimately its low base stats are a horrible letdown of its awesome movepool.

There are much better sticky web users. PU's probably the only place competent players would even use this thing. Shuckle, Leavanny, and even Masquerain all are better options for setting it.

 

[Franklyna]

There are much better sticky web users. PU's probably the only place competent players would even use this thing. Shuckle, Leavanny, and even Masquerain all are better options for setting it.

For the most part, Ariados is outclassed as a Sticky Web setter by Leavanny, but Ariados does have a useful poison-typing and is the only NU Sticky Web user to get Toxic Spikes. Depends on what your team wants/needs.

 

[Mistrals]

While it has those, Ariados's good points are negated by a speed stat and defensive stats that usually will end up relegating it to setting one layer of hazards.

 

[Durant]

Has anyone mentioned Pyroar yet?

With Charizard now living in the higher tiers Pyroar can fill the hole Charizard as a fast and powerful fire type attacker. It's movepool is pretty empty but dual STAB dark pulse and hidden power are decent options.

 

[HispanicPanic]

Has anyone mentioned Pyroar yet?

With Charizard now living in the higher tiers Pyroar can fill the hole Charizard as a fast and powerful fire type attacker. It's movepool is pretty empty but dual STAB dark pulse and hidden power are decent options.

Yeah, we've discussed Pyroar a bit already on previous pages and concluded that it's probably not going to be that great mostly due to that shallow movepool you mentioned.

 

[Durant]

Yeah, we've discussed Pyroar a bit already on previous pages and concluded that it's probably not going to be that great mostly due to that shallow movepool you mentioned.

Then what else is gonna replace Charizard for a fast hard hitting fire type. Entei and Moltres are never going to drop from RU and Typhlosion and Magmortor probably won't drop either. Camerupt and Flareon aren't fast enough to sweep. The only other things i can think of are Magmar which just barely fails to outspeed Jynx and Rapidash who i guess can make a decent replacement.

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Did we actually discuss Combusken yet? It will likely be both a frail supporter or attacker, though it can be both, due to it's access to Swords Dance and decent STAB. It's likely that it'll receive usage on Baton Pass teams (Though whether it will replace Ninjask or be paired with it is up to theorymon, which is what this thread is about).

And even though it'll probably go RU, Delphox is another interesting Fire-type. It's typing is only shared with Victini (And Darm-Zen but who uses that), and it has the generic Fire-type movepool combined with the generic Psychic type move (Except no Electric moves :(). However, it's bulk on the physical side is pitiful, and any Rock/Dark/Water/Ground/Ghost Pokemon that is even good offensively physically can beat it the majority of the time. It more suits a Zard replacement than Pyroar in my opinion. Unless we get Magmortar again, which I doubt will happen.

 

[Kanwe]

Did we actually discuss Combusken yet? It will likely be both a frail supporter or attacker, though it can be both, due to it's access to Swords Dance and decent STAB. It's likely that it'll receive usage on Baton Pass teams (Though whether it will replace Ninjask or be paired with it is up to theorymon, which is what this thread is about).

And even though it'll probably go RU, Delphox is another interesting Fire-type. It's typing is only shared with Victini (And Darm-Zen but who uses that), and it has the generic Fire-type movepool combined with the generic Psychic type move (Except no Electric moves :(). However, it's bulk on the physical side is pitiful, and any Rock/Dark/Water/Ground/Ghost Pokemon that is even good offensively physically can beat it the majority of the time. It more suits a Zard replacement than Pyroar in my opinion. Unless we get Magmortar again, which I doubt will happen.

I'm not sure Combusken is really worth mentioning, as it didn't gain anything notable this gen that it didn't have last gen iirc. It'll more or less play the same role as it did in Gen 5, with a Swords Dance sweeper set and a special set using the unreliable Focus Blast and Fire Blast. A Baton Pass set sounds interesting, though!

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

I'm not sure Combusken is really worth mentioning, as it didn't gain anything notable this gen that it didn't have last gen iirc. It'll more or less play the same role as it did in Gen 5, with a Swords Dance sweeper set and a special set using the unreliable Focus Blast and Fire Blast. A Baton Pass set sounds interesting, though!

I think it gets the Speed Boost + Baton Pass combo this gen. Whilst in gen V it could only have one or the other.

 

[Anty]

Did we actually discuss Combusken yet? It will likely be both a frail supporter or attacker, though it can be both, due to it's access to Swords Dance and decent STAB. It's likely that it'll receive usage on Baton Pass teams (Though whether it will replace Ninjask or be paired with it is up to theorymon, which is what this thread is about).

And even though it'll probably go RU, Delphox is another interesting Fire-type. It's typing is only shared with Victini (And Darm-Zen but who uses that), and it has the generic Fire-type movepool combined with the generic Psychic type move (Except no Electric moves :(). However, it's bulk on the physical side is pitiful, and any Rock/Dark/Water/Ground/Ghost Pokemon that is even good offensively physically can beat it the majority of the time. It more suits a Zard replacement than Pyroar in my opinion. Unless we get Magmortar again, which I doubt will happen.

I would rather use whirlipede as a bp-er, it has execlent bulk with eviolite, access to spikes and t-spikes, it cannot learn sd though but then again, most competant players can stop ninjask from getting a sd up. What also looks interesting is venom drench, paired with t spikes can be very annoying. Infestation also looks cool, kinda like a sticky web shuckle set but whirli provides more support. Toxic is helpful because with speed boost, it can hit before a sub.
I kinda see the moveset as baton pass/spikes/infestation or toxic spikes or toxic/protect or tspikes or venom drench or pin missile.

I dunno if its been talked about but liepard looks interesting, it finally gets copycat and also play rough. A set of suker punch/playrough/copycat/encore or t wave sounds fun, itll draw people away from swag play

Edit: didnt think about combusken, probs better offensively than whirli, but it still has a niche
edit2: im an idiot, its an ok spiker still...

 

[Snaquaza]

I would rather use whirlipede as a bp-er, it has execlent bulk with eviolite, access to spikes and t-spikes, it cannot learn sd though but then again, most competant players can stop ninjask from getting a sd up. What also looks interesting is venom drench, paired with t spikes can be very annoying. Infestation also looks cool, kinda like a sticky web shuckle set but whirli provides more support. Toxic is helpful because with speed boost, it can hit before a sub.
I kinda see the moveset as baton pass/spikes/infestation or toxic spikes or toxic/protect or tspikes or venom drench or pin missile.

I dunno if its been talked about but liepard looks interesting, it finally gets copycat and also play rough. A set of suker punch/playrough/copycat/encore or t wave sounds fun, itll draw people away from swag play

Edit: didnt think about combusken, probs better offensively than whirli, but it still has a niche

Whirlipede doesn't learn Baton Pass

 

[Mistrals]

Also, U-Turn is a lot more useful on Liepard than Play Rough would be.

 

[Meteor 17]

I'm personally really excited to see Emolga. Since it gets Nuzzle, it essentially becomes a fast support with a Thunder Wave that does damage and lets it set up (very little, but still) and Volt Switch. I'm imagining this kind of set:

Emolga @ Leftovers
Ability: Motor Drive
Nature: Timid
- Nuzzle
- Tailwind
- U-Turn / Volt Switch
- Encore / Roost

 

[Franklyna]

I'm personally really excited to see Emolga. Since it gets Nuzzle, it essentially becomes a fast support with a Thunder Wave that does damage and lets it set up (very little, but still) and Volt Switch. I'm imagining this kind of set:

Emolga @ Leftovers
Ability: Motor Drive
Nature: Timid
- Nuzzle
- Tailwind
- U-Turn / Volt Switch
- (generic move I'm forgetting here)

For the last move, probably Encore or Roost. Emolga's main purpose is to be annoying with U-Turn/Volt Switch shenanigans and support his team mates. I think Emolga would be better off Baton Passing Agility boosts than Tailwind, though. Still, having a fast, untauntable Thunder Wave is really helpful in NU. He's the second fastest user of Nuzzle, behind Raichu, who almost always runs a special set over a physical one.

 

[Jillix]

I don't know how much weezing has been discussed, but here are my two cents.
Weezing got some good buffs this gen. Toxics spikes are a boon to many types of team, especially those not running a poison type. Though defog will be popular, especially on skuntank, who will be the premier defogger imo, Weezing packs will-o-wisp to cripple tank, or can just dish out damage if you're taunt wary. Weezing's defense lets him take anything skunk can throw at him. I do understand tank clear the field of toxic spikes upon entrance, but Weezing, with painsplit, can simply set up again and again. Poison type buff is nice, though not really that useful, unless you decide to break the system and use specs weezing. All in all, I think Weezing could easily be the premier toxic spiker in Nu

 

[HispanicPanic]

I don't know how much weezing has been discussed, but here are my two cents.
Weezing got some good buffs this gen. Toxics spikes are a boon to many types of team, especially those not running a poison type. Though defog will be popular, especially on skuntank, who will be the premier defogger imo, Weezing packs will-o-wisp to cripple tank, or can just dish out damage if you're taunt wary. Weezing's defense lets him take anything skunk can throw at him. I do understand tank clear the field of toxic spikes upon entrance, but Weezing, with painsplit, can simply set up again and again. Poison type buff is nice, though not really that useful, unless you decide to break the system and use specs weezing. All in all, I think Weezing could easily be the premier toxic spiker in Nu

I honestly don't think Weezing will be using T-spikes all that often. It usually runs something like Wisp / Sludge Bomb / Pain Split / Haze and I guess you could forgo Haze for T-spikes, but for the most part I'd rather use Roselia for T-spikes because it packs better overall bulk with eviolite and Sleep Powder to more reliably set up T-spikes or Spikes. Weezing also can't really do much to Skuntank because although Tank might not carry both Taunt and Defog, if can still screw Weezing over just by coming to absorb T-spikes and then Taunting you later if you don't predict the switch. Weezing really should be sticking to Sludge Bomb to damage things which barely scratches the standard spread on Skuntank. However, Weezing does have the advantage of avoiding spikes damage and ground-type attacks because of Levitate. It will be a decent T-spiker, don't get me wrong, I just find that it's going to get a lot of competition from Roselia and even Garbodor, and it doesn't have much over them.

 

[Franklyna]

I honestly don't think Weezing will be using T-spikes all that often. It usually runs something like Wisp / Sludge Bomb / Pain Split / Haze and I guess you could forgo Haze for T-spikes, but for the most part I'd rather use Roselia for T-spikes because it packs better overall bulk with eviolite and Sleep Powder to more reliably set up T-spikes or Spikes. Weezing also can't really do much to Skuntank because although Tank might not carry both Taunt and Defog, if can still screw Weezing over just by coming to absorb T-spikes and then Taunting you later if you don't predict the switch. Weezing really should be sticking to Sludge Bomb to damage things which barely scratches the standard spread on Skuntank. However, Weezing does have the advantage of avoiding spikes damage and ground-type attacks because of Levitate. It will be a decent T-spiker, don't get me wrong, I just find that it's going to get a lot of competition from Roselia and even Garbodor, and it doesn't have much over them.

Weezing isn't as crippled by Knock Off as Roselia is, and has better physical bulk plus an immunity to Ground moves over Garbodor. I do agree about Weezing's 4MSS, though. 5th Gen Weezing was already strapped for move slots as-is.

 

[Jillix]

I honestly don't think Weezing will be using T-spikes all that often. It usually runs something like Wisp / Sludge Bomb / Pain Split / Haze and I guess you could forgo Haze for T-spikes, but for the most part I'd rather use Roselia for T-spikes because it packs better overall bulk with eviolite and Sleep Powder to more reliably set up T-spikes or Spikes. Weezing also can't really do much to Skuntank because although Tank might not carry both Taunt and Defog, if can still screw Weezing over just by coming to absorb T-spikes and then Taunting you later if you don't predict the switch. Weezing really should be sticking to Sludge Bomb to damage things which barely scratches the standard spread on Skuntank. However, Weezing does have the advantage of avoiding spikes damage and ground-type attacks because of Levitate. It will be a decent T-spiker, don't get me wrong, I just find that it's going to get a lot of competition from Roselia and even Garbodor, and it doesn't have much over them.

The problem with these two are in Garbador's case, few opportunities to setup with the prevalence of earthquake, and with Roselia, as mentioned, a huge buff to knock off. I find Gard has a hard enough time setting up all layers of spikes in a match early enough to be useful, without having to set them up many times thanks to defog. Roselia is more reliable, with natural cure rest or synthesis, does not like switching into attacks, lest they have a coverage move that hit rose for se damage. Weezing's 1 weakness gives him a weakness to psychic, which while common, is used only really on pokemon with it as stab, unless that changes this gen. The ability to switch in on physical attacker and throw up t-spikes or burn something is very useful, while predicting for the painsplit helps with longevity

 

[HispanicPanic]

I would argue that Roselia doesn't mind switching into attacks nearly has much as Weezing does because it has reliable recovery and doesn't mind status as much because of Natural Cure. Rose's typing let's it switch in to a bunch special attackers such as Ludicolo, Serperior and Haunter. Ice Beam is a common enough coverage that poses a threat to Rose, but it non-STAB Ice Beams pretty comfortable because of its bulk. Weezing may have only one weakness, but it's special bulk is pretty bad, so STAB special attacks still hurt it pretty hard. Again, t-spikes is nice utility for Weezing, but it already had problems with 4MSS last gen, and there isn't much room for t-spikes now. Also, Rose and Garb aren't just restricted to t-spikes as they both have access to Spikes as well which is arguably more useful than t-spikes considering how many grounded Poison-types are in the tier. Pain Split also isn't always reliable even with Weezing's low HP, it just isn't nearly as reliable as Rose's Synthesis. Rose may hate Knock Off, but Weezing still hates losing Leftovers because of how unreliable Pain Split is. I'd still just prefer to use Weezing as a wall like last gen as it does have really neat tools in Wisp, Haze, and Taunt.

 

[Meteor 17]

I would argue that Roselia doesn't mind switching into attacks nearly has much as Weezing does because it has reliable recovery and doesn't mind status as much because of Natural Cure. Rose's typing let's it switch in to a bunch special attackers such as Ludicolo, Serperior and Haunter. Ice Beam is a common enough coverage that poses a threat to Rose, but it non-STAB Ice Beams pretty comfortable because of its bulk. Weezing may have only one weakness, but it's special bulk is pretty bad, so STAB special attacks still hurt it pretty hard. Again, t-spikes is nice utility for Weezing, but it already had problems with 4MSS last gen, and there isn't much room for t-spikes now. Also, Rose and Garb aren't just restricted to t-spikes as they both have access to Spikes as well which is arguably more useful than t-spikes considering how many grounded Poison-types are in the tier. Pain Split also isn't always reliable even with Weezing's low HP, it just isn't nearly as reliable as Rose's Synthesis. Rose may hate Knock Off, but Weezing still hates losing Leftovers because of how unreliable Pain Split is. I'd still just prefer to use Weezing as a wall like last gen as it does have really neat tools in Wisp, Haze, and Taunt.

Don't argue with Karane. Karane is our lord.

Anyways, Weezing and Roselia have equal prescience imo. Weezing's defense is great and has pretty solid HP to back it up, while Roselia does the same thing but with special defense. (That's what I've done at least, but I don't really use Roselia.) One advantage Rose does have over Weezing is Natural Cure, and status can cripple Weezing. I do see Weezing switching into Sawk and Golurk, which will definitely run rampant, and set up free layers of Toxic Spikes. It can also burn and dish out damage too, which is pretty nice. However, it does lack recovery without Lefties or a bulky Pokemon like Alomo to Pain Split. I see a set like this:
Item: Leftovers
Nature: ^SpDef vAtk
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 SpDef
- Toxic Spikes
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp / Haze
- Sludge Bomb

Toxic Spikes wastes a moveslot but w/e

I see bright futures for Weezing, but Knock Off will definitely cripple Roselia.

Sorry for crap formatting btw, I'm on mobile.

 

[HispanicPanic]

Don't argue with Karane. Karane is our lord.

Anyways, Weezing and Roselia have equal prescience imo. Weezing's defense is great and has pretty solid HP to back it up, while Roselia does the same thing but with special defense. (That's what I've done at least, but I don't really use Roselia.) One advantage Rose does have over Weezing is Natural Cure, and status can cripple Weezing. I do see Weezing switching into Sawk and Golurk, which will definitely run rampant, and set up free layers of Toxic Spikes. It can also burn and dish out damage too, which is pretty nice. However, it does lack recovery without Lefties or a bulky Pokemon like Alomo to Pain Split. I see a set like this:
Item: Leftovers
Nature: ^SpDef vAtk
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 SpDef
- Toxic Spikes
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp / Haze
- Sludge Bomb

Toxic Spikes wastes a moveslot but w/e

I see bright futures for Weezing, but Knock Off will definitely cripple Roselia.

Sorry for crap formatting btw, I'm on mobile.

Rose has more than just Natural Cure over Weezing as I mentioned in an earlier post. Considering Sleep Powder is no longer illegal with Spikes, making an offensive pivot Spikes / T-spikes set a lot more viable especially considering Scolipede is probably out of the tier this gen. Rose can even run a a physically defensive set given it a few more switch opportunities while sacrificing some special bulk. Weezing's main advantage is Levitate giving it a few more common switch-ins to ground-type attacks and immunity to Spikes. Now to talk about the physical attackers you mentioned it could switch into. Weezing can switch into CB Golurk pretty reliable, but Dynamic Punch on the No-Guard sets put it at risk for confusion hax which means the switch-in isn't entirely safe. CB Sawk (it's most common set) 2HKO's you with Mold Breaker Earthquake on the switch-in. Personally, I feel like T-spikes will just be a slashed option for Weezing and not really mandatory on any set, as we have other mons that are a little more suited to the job and aren't strapped for move slots. It can definitely accomplish setting up T-spikes, I just find it easier to slap a Roselia on my team since it's quite a bit easier to do so at in least in 5th Gen. Who knows if Roselia will even stay in NU this gen as it wasn't always in NU in BW and the S Powder / Spikes combo might push it out a bit.

 

[Mistrals]

Of course Scolipede is out lol

There's going to be a large amount of RU drops this gen, that's for sure. (And Kanga'll be back, yay)

I think we can safely say Politoed, Dusknoir, Hitmonchan, Ninetails, Sandslash, Poliwrath, Crustle, Ferroseed, Rhydon, and Qwilfish are ending up NU.

That being said a lot of other pokemon will probably drop as well.

My guesses are that Accelgor, Electivire, Archeops, Mesprit, Uxie, Omastar, Dusclops, Klinklang and Claydol have decent chances of dropping. Not that all of them would stay or not be broken.

Also, Sawk'll probably end up back here as well. But I doubt it'll stick around.

 

[Brawlfest]

Of course Scolipede is out lol

There's going to be a large amount of RU drops this gen, that's for sure. (And Kanga'll be back, yay)

I think we can safely say Politoed, Dusknoir, Hitmonchan, Ninetails, Sandslash, Poliwrath, Crustle, Ferroseed, Rhydon, and Qwilfish are ending up NU.

That being said a lot of other pokemon will probably drop as well.

My guesses are that Accelgor, Electivire, Archeops, Mesprit, Uxie, Omastar, Dusclops, Klinklang and Claydol have decent chances of dropping. Not that all of them would stay or not be broken.

Also, Sawk'll probably end up back here as well. But I doubt it'll stick around.

If we get Qwilfish, Poliwrath, and Rhydon, note I will cry tears of joy! Crustle swept me cuz Raseri is bully so i dun like it, and ferroseed will be useless this gen.