Arcticblast
Trans rights are human rights
Actually, I ran a decent stall team before PL got shanked.
What are you saying?You say Heracross is easy to kill.
I answer, that you need a SE-Attack together with an Stab/LO and/or many (S)Atk-EV's to have a shot at killing Heracross.
Scarfrotom-HP Flying vs. Scarfheracross: 86.1% - 102%
Scarfrotom-Hp Flying vs. Resttalk-Heracross: 52.7% - 62.6%
I find this pretty impressive.
Heracross is blatantly BL - it limits your Team options dramatically.
Take for example stall: Stallteams now have to run Arcanine + Weezing/Nidoqueen/Golbat/Gligar to beat every Heracross-Set out there. Heracross can beat Weezing/Nidoqueen (Heracross 2-3hkos, whereas Weezing/Nidoqueen only manages a 2hko at best), Gligar (Speedtie...), Golbat (Sub -> SE; or predicted SE/Facade on the Switch). Not to mention that Gligar/Golbar are well... overspecialized counters just for Heracross....
This leaves only Arcanine as an succesful answer to Heracross. And Arcanine suffers from a nasty SR-weakness and cant come into any move (SE).
Oh and you cant run any Status-Moves anymore on a Stall team which hurts you a LOT. If a CBHeracross gets burned you can say "gg" (guts-boosted CB-Megahorn 2hkos nearly everything with SR taken into Account).
Can we please avoid exaggerating by saying stuff like "Heracross is blatantly broken" because he is still very controversial at the moment. Hyperbole will not get you anywhere. I'm leaning to BL myself at the moment, especially since I've played quite a few matches where it usually comes down to Heracross vs Heracross and the winner usually determined by Heracross and not other members. However, I still want to give it a chance, because none of his sets are particularly overpowering. Any non-Scarf set is beaten by Pokemon that are faster than it (Although it's hard to switch in), and Scarf is walled to hell and back by a truck load of Pokemon.Heracross is blatantly BL - it limits your Team options dramatically.
Take for example stall: Stallteams now have to run Arcanine + Weezing/Nidoqueen/Golbat/Gligar to beat every Heracross-Set out there. Heracross can beat Weezing/Nidoqueen (Heracross 2-3hkos, whereas Weezing/Nidoqueen only manages a 2hko at best), Gligar (Speedtie...), Golbat (Sub -> SE; or predicted SE/Facade on the Switch). Not to mention that Gligar/Golbar are well... overspecialized counters just for Heracross....
This leaves only Arcanine as an succesful answer to Heracross. And Arcanine suffers from a nasty SR-weakness and cant come into any move (SE).
Oh and you cant run any Status-Moves anymore on a Stall team which hurts you a LOT. If a CBHeracross gets burned you can say "gg" (guts-boosted CB-Megahorn 2hkos nearly everything with SR taken into Account).
Can you build a stall team that beats this set:Heracross is OK, pretty decent, above average, good, alright, and solid.
If you honestly have a team that has "too much" trouble with Heracross you're bad at team building.
Can you build a stall team that beats this set:
Heracross @ Occa Berry
228 HP / 252 Attack / 28 Speed / Adamant
Close Combat
Megahorn
Stone Edge
Swords Dance
?
If you're running a Heracross set like that... well, let's just say that most of the tier gave a sigh of relief.Can you build a stall team that beats this set:
Heracross @ Occa Berry
228 HP / 252 Attack / 28 Speed / Adamant
Close Combat
Megahorn
Stone Edge
Swords Dance
?
It fails to OHKO and gets 2HKOed by +2 Stone edge, and the fact that Gligar needs Spikes AND SR to OHKO a 4x weak Pokemon with a STAB attack speaks volumes about Heracross's bulk.Defensive Gligar OHKOs that after the Def drop from CC or with a layer of spikes and SR.
Wow its got some bulk, but you wasted 228 EVs, so heracross does shit all to offense.It fails to OHKO and gets 2HKOed by +2 Stone edge, and the fact that Gligar needs Spikes AND SR to OHKO a 4x weak Pokemon with a STAB attack speaks volumes about Heracross's bulk.
Can we stop comparing Heracross to Gallade?? This issue has been discussed about a hundred times.@Erazor - I agree, but if Gallade's ban was anything to go by, then we only need to exhibit the same arguments for Gallade being BL to prove Heracross being BL ... SD Heracross might not be devastating against offense (and I agree I'd breathe a sigh of relief if I see SD, it generally means I can for example get Mismagius in on Close Combat and kill it) but as long as it remains useful against offense it'd be BL. It's hard to argue SD Heracross isn't effective against offense, since it can switch in on stuff like Registeel or Milotic and bash things up with its 252 Attack Adamant 120 base power STAB attacks. Maybe it can't sweep teams, but as long as it opens teams up and gets KOes, who's complaining?
Try switching Heracross into Venusaur. 50% of the time, it's not pretty (Get slept or murdered by Sludge Bomb). Leaf Storm isn't Venusaur's spam move either. Heracross takes about 40.20% - 47.51% from Scarfed Close Combat too (Has some chance to get 2HKOed after SR =O). Not my idea of switching in for free.Do you also consider it impossible for Heracross to switch into Venusaur's Leaf Storms, or Scarf Heracross Close Combats
Errr what. Theres no Milotic + Registeel combo there...
You missed my point. Do you consider that team offense?Errr what. Theres no Milotic + Registeel combo there...
I don't see why you think Gallade and Haracross are "different enough" Pokemon.shrang said:Can we stop comparing Heracross to Gallade?? This issue has been discussed about a hundred times.
1) Heracross and Gallade are different enough Pokemon. Gallade held its own against offense while single-handedly annihilating stall. Heracross cannot do both at the same time. SD Heracross arguably kicks Stall even harder, but weaknesses to common-attacking types like Fire, Flying and Psychic makes it subpar against offense. Gallade had the bulk and lack of such weaknesses to not get revenged easily. Other versions of Heracross that does better against offense trades his stall-breaking abilities, which compromises him in doing so.
2) The "precedent" being used is flawed anyway. Gallade was banned because it swept the majority of teams with little to no support, not "destroying stall".
If Heracross gets slept, that's fine since SD Heracross isn't the most effective Pokemon against offense anyway - so you lost one of the less important members in the team to sleep clause. Good trade if you ask me. Also:Try switching Heracross into Venusaur. 50% of the time, it's not pretty (Get slept or murdered by Sludge Bomb). Leaf Storm isn't Venusaur's spam move either. Heracross takes about 40.20% - 47.51% from Scarfed Close Combat too (Has some chance to get 2HKOed after SR =O). Not my idea of switching in for free.
Yeah, but it's way easier to get Heracross in compared to (say) Alakazam, and it hits almost as hard. Aside from resisted attacks, Heracross can also come in on weak walls, support moves and status ...uragg said:I think that one of the main reasons keeping Hera from being easily BL (its offensive stats are certainly good enough) is its lack of opportunities to switch in. It has decent bulk, but it's exactly that. only decent. Its resistances (grass, bug, fighting, dark, ground) tend to hit extremely hard (Hitmonlee's CC, Donphan's EQ, Torterra's Wood Hammer), so Hera doesn't exactly come in for free. The previous offensive suspects all had either a much better set of resistances and immunities or good defensive stats in at least one category, allowing them to come in safely on a lot more than Hera can. It's pretty much agreed on that Hera can break stuff very well once it's in, but getting Hera in without taking too much damage is not that easy.
Firstly, what is this 228/0 nonsense?? Do you realise how much weaker Heracross just became (Or are you actually implying 252 Atk and 28 Spe)?? That spread and Occa Berry sounds specialised as hell. Also, Arcanine with LO will OHKO through Occa with SR, which offense is not unlikely to be carrying.I don't see why you think Gallade and Haracross are "different enough" Pokemon.
Gallade doesn't sweep offense. There are plenty of Pokemon that're faster and not weak to Shadow Sneak. I agree it held its own, but to say it swept teams is an exaggeration. I think Gallade was banned because it destroyed stall, not for any other reason.
If you say Psychic, Fire and Flying attacks are common in the tier then you essentially imply that every type of attack except Steel and Dragon are common, making the statement quite meaningless ... besides, here're some calcs to illustrate perspective:
0 Attack Gligar Aerial Ace vs. 228/0 Heracross: 73.7% - 87.2% no KO.
252 SpA Timid Mesprit Psychic vs. 228/0 Heracross: 74.3% - 87.7% no KO, and Heracross KOs back with Megahorn.
252 Attack Adamant Arcanine Flare Blitz vs. 228/0 Occa Berry Heracross: 67.9% - 79.9% no KO, and Heracross KOs back with Stone Edge.
In other words, SD Heracross isn't a monster against offensive teams, but it's not a bad Pokemon either - and it destroys stall.
Did you even read the rest of the thread? Although there are many people who agree with you, just as many (myself included) think it is balanced within the uu metagame.So we had Heracross now for 2 month in the UU department.
When can we boot him out finally? I definitely despise this new Hera-centric metagame (most of my fights right now are decided by Heracross) and i long desperately for the metagame we had before.
How long will i still (have to?) suffer under Heracross relentless assaults?