scpinion
Life > Monotype... unfortunately :)
I want to chime in on some elements of these last two posts b/c I think they're great ideas.
I don't think a tutoring hub that contains all OMs is the way to go though. This dilutes everyone's product and makes managing all the people that contribute/participate more challenging. It works for B101 b/c they have an entire team dedicated to making it run. It is unrealistic to expect 1-2 people (although Snaq is awesome) to manage all the OM tutoring programs. 1-2 people in charge of each permanent metagame's tutoring program is my preference. One of those programs can be dedicated to OMotM so a resource is provided for it. This idea is further enabled by sub-forums for the meta's with permanent ladders.
1) It gives new players a way to get feedback on their teams, while still showcasing it.
2) It gives veteran players a way to showcase teams that were particularly successful. Joining the "Teams for Beginners" section shows you've created something that defines the metagame
3) There is a tangible (albeit minimal) reward for doing it and doing it well.
4) It actively promotes the metagame to the greater smogon community (via the RMT forum), which encourages additional contributors.
I envision having the ladder reset every 3 months (with the major tier shift), recognizing the user(s) that are at the top of the ladder via ELO at the end of the season, and recognizing the user that accumulates the highest GXE for that period.
I can speak for mono best, but I think this applies to the other OMs with mega-threads/websites. Most of our sample teams are contained within those resources. For monotype, we have a TON of sample teams on the website. The creation of the sample team section (and subsequent expansion) is one of the best things we've done in a while. More on this later.Sample teams are fairly bare outside of Stabmons, and things like Inverse Battle which have no samples and no builders in OM teambuilding shop...why does it exist lol. Honestly, what I'm trying to say this that you're attempting to get people out of their comfort zones.
I think the megathreads are a good idea, but if we're really going to try and cultivate the existing metagames then sub-forums are the way to go. As Megazard and imas234 said, PU is an excellent example of how a metagame can really take off when given its own section.Another factor that might be contributing is how so many OMs are slotted together that you get lost, there's a reason that PU got way more popular when it got its own separate section and subforum, FU spiked when it moved into PU, and megathreads that are discussion, good cores, VR, speed tiers, etc. in one thread are the new thing.
Monotype's tutoring program has the same problem, we're going to have to expand this in the very near future. The trick is just figuring out the most efficient way to do this w/o having to make wholesale changes again later (i.e. do we host it on the website? completely integrate with OM tutoring?).Hell, OM tutoring was a thing for a single session, bring that back, PU's has been so popular we don't have enough tutors.
I don't think a tutoring hub that contains all OMs is the way to go though. This dilutes everyone's product and makes managing all the people that contribute/participate more challenging. It works for B101 b/c they have an entire team dedicated to making it run. It is unrealistic to expect 1-2 people (although Snaq is awesome) to manage all the OM tutoring programs. 1-2 people in charge of each permanent metagame's tutoring program is my preference. One of those programs can be dedicated to OMotM so a resource is provided for it. This idea is further enabled by sub-forums for the meta's with permanent ladders.
I said more on the sample team stuff later. Monotype's sample teams section has really taken off (I have a hard time keeping up with it tbh). We require people to post RMTs in the smogon RMT section and showcase all teams that are posted there on our website. Every month (or 2 weeks, depending on activity) we pick a team to be "Monotype Team of the Month". Also, exceptional teams that really define the metagame are placed into a separate section that provides teams for beginners. I believe this format is successful for a couple reasons:I've literally had to beg people to post samples in the official thread, they don't seem to be interested in doing a bit of work to actually provide a nice resource for newer players to get into a tier. Sure, submitting a pastebin to that site is easier than writing a description and making it all official looking, but how is a player who is just starting out a meta supposed to know what mon does what, what are things they need to watch out for and how to play with said team in a meta that they don't even know? The desc is what makes them able to use the team properly and learn enough to go out and make their own teams after they've gotten a feel for the meta playing with that team. If you have suggestions on how I can make it easier for you (I've been thinking about removing the teambuilding process part, but its kind of important imo as it gives a feel for how to build for the meta and what things you need to keep in mind when building) while not taking away from the resource, feel free to shoot me a VM. And submit more teams guys :[
1) It gives new players a way to get feedback on their teams, while still showcasing it.
2) It gives veteran players a way to showcase teams that were particularly successful. Joining the "Teams for Beginners" section shows you've created something that defines the metagame
3) There is a tangible (albeit minimal) reward for doing it and doing it well.
4) It actively promotes the metagame to the greater smogon community (via the RMT forum), which encourages additional contributors.
Agree completely!Regarding why omotm teams aren't allowed in the official thread, they are useful for the month the om is omotm but after that month, they'd basically just be taking up space. However, having omotm sample teams would be a nice resource, so I propose we make a second sample teams thread for omotm only. Alternatively, if my following suggestion becomes a reality, it would be a general om sample team thread with basically teams for any om accepted (maybe figure out a way to limit random teams for dead OMs, like page1 OMs only), with omotm having a seperate post to seperate them from others. Permaladder teams would go to the sample teams thread on their specific subforums.
As I said above, many of these ideas are enabled by the creation of sub-forums for the permanent ladders. Many OMs have dedicated player bases that exceed those of official tiers, yet we're all cramped into one sub-forum. If the plan is to cultivate existing OMs these issues will only continue to grow. A theme across both these posts is easy access to the relevant information for new players, which sub-forums address. I think most of these metagames have the man power to maintain and moderate a sub-forum.I'm also a supporter of giving the OMs with permaladders a subforum so that they can have resources specifically for them. That makes it easier for a person trying to get into a specific meta to go through the available resources without having to sift through stuff related to metas that don't interest them. A seperate subforum for a meta opens up a large array of possible projects, just look at the kind of stuff present in the OU subforum for examples. I realize that it needs user participation more than anything and a new subforum won't magically make new resources, but it'd be a start. It would have all the available resources and future resources in one place, making it easier for players for said meta to look through and find (project threads would be slower than your average om discussion thread and they easily get lost to the depths of page 2 when new meta threads or a momentarily popular meta like omotm/metas with suspect discussion are getting a bunch of posts) the available things and possibly make a post in one of the threads that interest them. The regular players of the meta would have to step up a lot tho as they'd have to point new users in the right direction, tell them if they're doing anything wrong and lead a lot of meta specific projects. Seperate subforums also open doors for suspect test laddering (like BH, no need for new ladders) with every suspect test bringing in discussion in their individual threads without disrupting general meta discussion and giving people incentive to go out and ladder to qualify for the votes. Every suspect having its own thread present in the subforum would also prevent common "why was this banned" questions in general discussion threads.
Some of the ideas that have been tossed around in this PR thread recently could be leveraged here. I've been meaning to talk to TI about implementing them for the Monotype ladder, but haven't had a chance w/ my school schedule rn x_x.Lastly, most om ladders are generally dead so, a ladder tour like olt or some other project that gives incentive to ladder could be held to make the ladders more active again.
I envision having the ladder reset every 3 months (with the major tier shift), recognizing the user(s) that are at the top of the ladder via ELO at the end of the season, and recognizing the user that accumulates the highest GXE for that period.
Last edited: