I've played a lot of STABmons - ever since it was Gen 5. I didn't say it wasn't the most common set - its just that, imho, it's not the best set. I personally like Tbolt / Fblast or HP [Ice] / Owing / Thunder Wave to generally be better. The main point was that Thundy doesn't always have NP, so it doesn't beat it 100% of the time.Uhh, not to be rude, but have you played STABmons? I looked back through the last 10 months of usage and couldn't find a month where NP was under 50% or out of the top 4 moves on Thundy. What 3rd attack do you even run? Superpower? Dragon Ascent? Those don't hit anything. The mixed wallbreaker set is real, but is largely outclassed by the NP set because it already breaks every wall. Also Steels are WAY more common in STABmons that in OU. If you go through and add up the percent usage of steel types in the top 50 in STAB and OU you come out with 128 to 74. That's 1.7x as many steels.
What I was getting at is that a lot of what you posted basically has similar, if not the same, match-ups as it does in OU so bringing up those specific examples is kind of moot. Also, those mons only do it under certain circumstances (Keldeo needs to be at an HP where Water Spout isn't stronger than Origin Pulse, Azu needs to be banded or at +6, Chomp needs SD, ect). Meanwhile it has a good amount of good match-ups against good mons, such as (listing from S to A-): Defensive Lando-T, non-NP/Taunt Thundy, Scarf Keldeo mid-game (or even max health Keldeo if both of them are in against each other - a single Moonblast makes Water Spout not a 2HKO), Tornadus-T, non-Head Smash M-Diance, non-DD/SD Garchomp, M-Sable (and normal Sableye), basically all forms of Rotom (even Rotom-Heat since it can't do anything to Clef), bulky TTar, and non-SD Weavile. Keep in mind that a lot of the set-up mons don't want to set-up on Clefable, as they either take a Thunder Wave or take loads of damage. This is also not accounting for dank Flamethrower predictions.It seems like we agree on almost everything in your second paragraph: DD Chomp breaks Clef, so does SD Chomp, so does Keldeo, so does Azumarill, so does offensive Lando, so does Head Smash Diancie. I don't really understand the argument you're making here.
Clefable is good enough to work as a win-con on balanced teams. Of course certain things beat it, but that doesn't mean that it's not effective at what it does - which it definitely is. "32/42" is absolutely not correct - even if it were correct, you're making it sound like 32 out of 42 counter clef which is absolutely not true. In fact, the only counters I see are Scizor, Heatran, Ferrothorn, Klefki, and Excadrill - and those don't appreciate taking a Flamethrower or a Thunder Wave. Clef does not require you to remove 4 of the opposing team.At the end of the day, Clefable simply does not have the stats to function as a defensive win-con in the STABmons metagame. I don't really see how this is disputable. The support it needs to win is generally: remove 4 of the opposing team because 32/42 of the pokemon currently ranked A- or above can stop it from sweeping. This is not the same as "Pokemon that are extremely potent in the STABmons metagame. These Pokemon can sweep or wall large portions of the metagame and have minor flaws that can be mitigated with the right support, if any", and is much more in line with, "These Pokemon can sweep or wall some portions of the metagame but might have flaws that require more support. They can perform very well in one role, but may struggle in multiple capacities. They still have more positive traits than negative".
it should absolutely not be c lol...No it shouldn't
Bisharp wasn't the best even when it did have access to shift gear, and now it's ultimately not as good unless you run the standard OU set and have a Pokemon to baton pass speed into it
If anything it should be C
I'll reply to the other stuff later
Since when did this become a thread where your opinion had more priority over others? I never said I'd seen BP + Bisharp, it was simply an example. Also, all of the things you listed apply to Mega Scizor too, bar Defiant punishment, but it's not moving up to S++ (if that existed), is it? I never said it was less viable than Mega Sharpedo or Krookodile, so I don't know why you brought them up. Not to mention that almost every FakeSpeeder carries Fighting or Fire coverage (Stoutland had Superpower, p-z has fire or fighting Judgment, Ursaring has w/e, and Mega Lopunny can run hjk) so even if it does resist FakeSpeed, every viable fakespeeder has coverage for it. It definitely should not be B+, nor anything higher. It should remain where it is or move down.it should absolutely not be c lol...
bisharp is still insanely strong. it resists fakespeed, it punishes defensive lando-t, parting shot, and defog and just having it puts pressure on the opponent since they know they have to be more cautious with the above stuff otherwise bisharp threatens to punch holes in teams. you cannot honestly tell me bisharp is as bad as mega sharpedo. it's not that niche, and it's certainly not as niche as things like rhyperior and mega pinsir. and krookodile is above it, and krookodile is where it's supposed to be. bisharp is arguably better, and should be ranked as such. i've never heard of bisharp + baton pass and i can't imagine that would be any good... yeah, i don't see this as a valid anti-argument. maybe b rank, but it's not dropping and it's certainly not b-.
there is no reason to be hostile. obviously this thread is not "my opinion and no one else," otherwise the rankings would look exactly how i want them to, and they don't. bp+bisharp isn't an example because it's not used. you can justify bp+rampardos to make something "viable" and it's not working. i bring up the comparisons to the other pokemon because they're in the rankings around bisharp.....Since when did this become a thread where your opinion had more priority over others? I never said I'd seen BP + Bisharp, it was simply an example. Also, all of the things you listed apply to Mega Scizor too, bar Defiant punishment, but it's not moving up to S++ (if that existed), is it? I never said it was less viable than Mega Sharpedo or Krookodile, so I don't know why you brought them up. Not to mention that almost every FakeSpeeder carries Fighting or Fire coverage (Stoutland had Superpower, p-z has fire or fighting Judgment, Ursaring has w/e, and Mega Lopunny can run hjk) so even if it does resist FakeSpeed, every viable fakespeeder has coverage for it. It definitely should not be B+, nor anything higher. It should remain where it is or move down.
E: posted too soon, wait a bit pls
...I'm not trying to be hostile. I'm just replying angrily because you're ignoring my objections. And yes, BP+Bisharp IS an example because an example doesn't necessarily need to be used. I also don't see how my objections aren't valid, but it's whatever.there is no reason to be hostile. obviously this thread is not "my opinion and no one else," otherwise the rankings would look exactly how i want them to, and they don't. bp+bisharp isn't an example because it's not used. you can justify bp+rampardos to make something "viable" and it's not working. i bring up the comparisons to the other pokemon because they're in the rankings around bisharp.....
please see bacon's post. if there's enough support from him, then i'm going to move it up in 24 hours unless i see a valid objection.
i addressed your points rhythms. there's no need to continue this argument anyways, it's just making this thread more clogged up. it's not productive....I'm not trying to be hostile. I'm just replying angrily because you're ignoring my objections. And yes, BP+Bisharp IS an example because an example doesn't necessarily need to be used. I also don't see how my objections aren't valid, but it's whatever.
To be truly amazing, Mega Slowbro needs support from a SpD wall such as Chansey, Heatran, or Meoletta or something else to take out the strong special attackers. I personally find Heatran to be an amazing teammate for it, as it can take out many of the SpA attackers above. Mega Slowbro is amazing, but it falls just shy of being S rank IMO.Reserved for Pokemon that are extremely potent in the STABmons metagame. These Pokemon can sweep or wall large portions of the metagame and have minor flaws that can be mitigated with the right support, if any. They can perform very well in more than one role or just excel in one so well they do it better than almost anything else. These Pokemon influence the metagame