4Gen P.Diamond - U-turn team

[UncleHypno]

Rules:
-It's a team IN GAME (Ciao Hidden power! Ciao!).
-Not all IVs have 31.
-Not all pokemons are available to me (Legends; first pokemons; events;...).
-I haven't access to tutors from past editions (Bliss doesn't learn Seismic Toss!).
-Item clause.
-Species clause.
-Pokemon Diamond BanList: Mewtwo, Mew, Lugia, Ho-oh, Celebi, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Jirachi, Deoxys, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Phione, Manaphy, Darkrai, Shaymin y Arceus.


The great skill of the team is the ability to "foresee" changes and meet determined attacks witch determined pokemons (resistant). Is the key in Pokemon.
Almost every weakness is supported by two resistors.

Ambipom @ Silk scarf
Ability Technician
Nature Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
EVs: 252 Spe, 252 Atk, 4 HP
-Fake out
-Double hit
-Fire punch
-U-turn

-Resistant: No.
-Weakness: Fighting (Azelf, Starmie).
-Immune: Ghost (Azelf, Starmie).

Why? Because it has the most powerful Fake out in the game. A first strike gives me an idea of the damage that can produce a second hit (2HKO or U-turn). Scout and Revenge killer (Hight speed+Fake out)

Scizor @ Choice band
Ability Technician
Nature Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 HP, 4 Def
-Bullet punch
-Superpower
-U-turn
-Pursuit

-Resistant: Normal, Bug (Azelf, Starmie), Ghost (Azelf, Starmie), Steel, Grass (Starmie), Psychic (Infernape), Ice (Flygon), Dragon (Flygon), Dark (Azelf, Starmie).
-Weakness: Fire (Infernape, Starmie, Flygon).
-Immune: Poison.

Why? ... Why not!? Is the only one! Fucker of fuckers! XD

Flygon @ Choice scarf
Ability Levitate
Nature Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
-Dragon claw
-Earthquake
-U-turn
-Thunder punch

-Resistant: Poison, Rock, Fire (Scizor).
-Weakness: Ice (Scizor, Infernape, Starmie), Dragón (Scizor).
-Immune: Ground (Infernape), Electric (Starmie)

Why? While I foresee (U-Turn... or just my mind) a Dragon Dance (Dragonite, Gyarados, Tyranitar, Kingdra...) may come into play. It's faster (299) and simulates DD with Choice scarf. Dragon claw + Stab for Dragonite and Kingdra, Thunder punch for Gyarados (x4!), Earthquake + Stab for Tyranitar. Oh! Salamence is Uber in 4Gen... XD

Infernape @ Lifeorb
Ability Flare
Nature Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
EVs: 252 Spe, 252 Atk, 4 HP
-Flare blitz
-Close combat
-Rock slide
-U-turn

-Resistant: Bug (Azelf, Starmie), Steel, Fire (Scizor), Grass, Ice (Flygon), Dark (Azelf, Starmie).
-Weakness: Flying, Ground (Flygon, Azelf), Water (Starmie), Psychic (Azelf, Starmie, Scizor).
-Immune: No.

Why? Strong, fast, and has a good set with greats stabs.

Azelf @ Choice specs
Abiliy Levitate
Nature Naive (+Spe, -SpD)
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 Atk
-Psychic
-Flamethrower
-Energiball
-U-turn

-Resistant: Fighting (Ambipom), Psychic (Infernape).
-Weakness: Bug (Scizor, Infernape), Ghost (Ambipom, Scizor), Dark (Scizor, Infernape).
-Immune: Ground (Infernape).

Why? The best speed and special attack with U-turn. Do not want to lose the opportunity to take an object as good as Choice specs.
I think that Choice scarf (phisicall set?) could have benefited more... but... Item clause.

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability Natural cure
Nature Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
EVs: 252 Spe, 252 SpA, 4 HP
-Surf
-Thunder bolt
-Rapid spin
-Rest

-Resistant: Fighting (Ambipom), Psychic (Infernape).
-Weakness: Bug (Scizor, Infernape), Ghost (Ambipom, Scizor), Dark (Scizor, Infernape), Grass (Scizor, Infernape), Electric (Flygon).
-Immune: No.

Why? On a team that uses both U-turn, hazards can be fatal. Is my anti-spinner. Rest+Natural cure for return at team.. and a long survival.
There aren't rapid spinner with u-turn

I will continue tomorrow.
By the way, I'm not English. Be patient with the language, guiris XD

 

[UncleHypno]

Renewed with more data.

 

[B-Zard]

Hi, nice team.

I know this is a U-turn team, but I have some small suggestions that might fuck up the whole U-turn thing. First is your lead, I noticed your team didn't have Stealth Rock support and with a U-turn team it is really helpful. Therefore I suggest using either a Swampert lead or a Celebi lead. Swampert doesn't have U-turn but can Roar to rack up entry hazard damage and to scout your opponent's team. Celebi can learn U-turn and is faster but in my opinion more fragile (with pursuit weakness etc.)

Hide

Swampert @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP | 216 Def | 44 SpD
Relaxed Nature (+def/-speed)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Roar

Hide

Celebi @ Occa Berry
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 40 HP | 252 SpA | 216 Spe
Timid Nature (+speed,-att)
- Stealth Rock
- Leaf Storm
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power Ice/ U-turn

On Flygon choose Outrage > Dragon Claw.

Change Infernape to the physical based mixed attacker:

Hide

Infernape @ Life Orb
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 252 Att | 64 SpA | 192 Spe
Naive Nature (+speed,-spdef)
- Overheat
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch/ Stone Edge
- U-turn/ Stone Edge

Change Azelf to a life orb variant, since I don't think a specsed set will work. It isnt good if you're locked into the wrong move since Scizor and Ttar can trap you with pursuit. Therefore I should try out this set:

Hide

Azelf @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA | 252 Spe | 4 Atk
Naive Nature (+speed, -spdef)
- Psychic
- Flamethrower
- Explosion
- U-turn

Starmie is last. A small thing: choose Recover > Rest. Recover ensures you get health back. I know Rest does the same and if you switch out you get healed, but it is easy to predict for pursuiters.

Good luck with your team :)

 

[michael]

As an aside, it's important to remember that in Pokemon Diamond, if a Pokemon U-turns to a Choiced Pokemon with U-turn, it will be forced to use U-turn. This is hugely important as you have three Choiced U-turn users.

Apart from this, B-Zard's advice is pretty much spot on. I would rather use a mixed-attacking Expert Belted Azelf (Item clause). This is in my opinion more effective than a purely special Azelf.

Azelf

Azelf @ Expert Belt
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 40 Atk/216 Spd/252 SpAtk
Naive nature (+Spd,-SpDef)
- Explosion
- Fire Blast
- Psychic
- U-turn

It can outspeed Timid Gengar and OHKO with Psychic, as well as be able to bluff a Specs or Scarf set to KO would-be Pursuiting Scizor with Fire Blast. U-turn allows for the ability to scout for Tyranitar mostly, and Explosion packs a hefty punch, allowing Azelf to defeat Blissey. The 216 Speed EVs allow Azelf to outspeed Timid Gengar (and Latias if relevant), the 252 Special Attack EVs are obvious, while the remaining 40 are placed in Attack to boost the power of U-turn and Explosion; however they may be placed in HP to slightly improve Azelf's bulk.

 

[hackie chan]

i can speak spanish too, don't call me a guiri, i know what it means, idiot.
OT: i would say run air cutter on ambipom for those pesky fighting types ;), you should run something other than starmie, basically because your team lacks defence. I know it's based around attacking, but what's the point in running a u-turn team if none of your pokemon can take a hit? i would agree with zard, swapping swampert with it and running it as a lead. i wouldn't agree with removing ambipom, when it comes to u-turn teams, ambipom is the star of the show. on flygon dragon claw is a much better option than outrage, because of heatran and not being able to u-turn at will. Nape is better as a mixed attacker in this team. scizor is a nice idea, but use the swords dance set instead of choice, it can allow you to switch in, bullet punch and u-turn out which is a nice little niche scizor fills. you should also use fake out on nape for extra hax over rock slide.

ZAT IS ALL

 

[UncleHypno]

Thanks for the advices! You have given me many ideas.


-Life orb version of Azelf seems better suited than the Choice specs version. I will listen and I experience with it (He is curious: Learn Stheal rock). I have to deal with Item clause (Infernape).
-I do not want to use Celebi because I can't capture in my game (Hey, guys! Nobody gave me his Celebi? XD) and also recorded in the in-game banlist (Battle tower). Anyway, was a good idea.
-Flygon: I prefer Dragon claw because a steel type pokemon might seize the moment.
-Mix-ape: I have to try it. The IVs can be a problem...
-Starmie: I don't know ... The truth is... in my playing time, Rest has given more work because Pursuit is not a common attack. I have to think xD

As an aside, it's important to remember that in Pokemon Diamond, if a Pokemon U-turns to a Choiced Pokemon with U-turn, it will be forced to use U-turn. This is hugely important as you have three Choiced U-turn users.

Eh... I did not know it was so... good reason to buy a new game XD
That gives a curious twist to the team (I had only tested on PO). I have to think about, but if I have to remove some choice-items (choice specs, go home! XD).
Thanks for "your Azelf".





And finally, Hackie Chan:
This is the page of the Royal Spanish Language Academy (RAE): http://www.rae.es/rae.html
You can search "guiri." Guiri means "Foreign tourist" (is not an insult...and less in the enviroment where I say that)... Why did you call me "idiot"? I think you have no idea of what you say ... I'll report your insult to the administration.

 

[michael]

Maybe use Expert Belted Infernape and Life Orb Azelf; Infernape likes not taking LO recoil, although Azelf has better SE coverage.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Maybe use Expert Belted Infernape and Life Orb Azelf; Infernape likes not taking LO recoil, although Azelf has better SE coverage.

No. Just..... No. Expert Belt is an awful item. I can see how you could bluff a Choice set with it, but bluffing is one of the most risky strategies in Pokemon; if the opponent calls your bluff, you're dead.

What I notice is that you really have no way of handling Lucario. Come in on Scizor locked into Bullet Punch/Pursuit, Flygon locked into Dragon Claw, or Azelf locked into Energy Ball, set up Swords Dance, then it can sweep through everything with just Close Combat and ExtremeSpeed and you can't do anything about it.

To fix this, I recommend running Mach Punch over Rock Slide on Infernape. This will solve the Lucario problem, and Flygon already covers Gyarados with ThunderPunch anyway.

Also, a couple of things on Flygon: Outrage over Dragon Claw (needs as much power as it can get with that 100 base Attack) and Jolly over Adamant (needs to speed tie with Choice Scarf Jirachi)

Ambipom is a terrible lead. Never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever EVER use it in OU. I normally don't suggest Smeargle, but you have a couple of problems in that you have no entry hazards and Lead Machamp will heavily damage your team. Here's the set, you should run this as your lead over Ambipom:

Smeargle (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Own Tempo
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Spore
- Spikes
- U-turn
- Counter

Gets up some Spikes for your team, Spore to ease setting them up, U-turn so that you can U-turn out on Aerodactyl/Azelf leads attempting to Taunt you and switch to your appropriate counter (will almost always be Scizor), and Counter lets you beat Machamp leads as they attempt to DynamicPunch you, since Smeargle has Own Tempo to prevent confusion. Spikes are great for U-turn teams and you will see your team being more effective with them.

Of course, you still need Stealth Rock. I'd replace Azelf with a Pokemon to use Stealth Rock, as to be honest, I really don't like the idea of Choice items on Pokemon that are weak to Pursuit. Now, there are no Rapid Spinners with U-turn, bar Smeargle who you shouldn't be running Rapid Spin on, but I find that Starmie is also easily replaceable, as I just don't think it fits. Donphan seems like a nice fit on your team.

Donphan (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Atk / 68 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Assurance

Ghosts attempting to come in to block your Rapid Spin will instead find themselves taking massive damage from Assurance, since Assurance has its power doubled when the opponent switches in their spinblocker, assuming you have your hazards up. It is recommended to set up Stealth Rock first to see what their spinblocker is. Rocks are also necessary to ensure you can have Assurance's power doubled against Rotom-A, the most common spinblocker. Earthquake is for STAB, and gives you a super effective hit on threats like Infernape (watch out for Grass Knot) and Lucario.

As I said when introducing Donphan, I think Starmie is easily replaceable. Instead of using it, you can run another U-turner over Starmie. I'd recommend a Celebi, as I honestly think it is the best fit on your team, but since you say you can't get it you'll have to do with something else. I can't find any OU U-turners not named Celebi or Jirachi that would fit on your team, and there are pretty much zero viable UU/NU U-turners, so while it is counter-productive type synergy wise, your only option remaining is Jolteon.

Jolteon (F) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Baton Pass
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Shadow Ball

Dry-passing out to Infernape when things like Blissey try to come in is really fun. Thunderbolt nails Gyarados - In fact, Jolteon is faster than Adamant Gyarados after a Dragon Dance! Hidden Power Grass is preferred over Hidden Power Ice as this will let you beat Swampert, which on Wifi is far more important than hitting Gliscor, and I assume you're on Wifi due to the restrictions, and Shadow Ball hits Rotom-A on the switch. You'll find this as a much better Pokemon to use instead of Azelf as a Choice Specs user, due to its Bullet Punch resistance and neutrality to Pursuit.

I hope this helps, I tried to keep this as loyal to the U-turn idea as possible.

TL;DR version:

-Smeargle >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ambipom
-Mach Punch > Rock Slide on Infernape
-Outrage > Dragon Claw and Jolly > Adamant on Flygon
-Donphan > Azelf
-Jolteon > Starmie

 

[michael]

The reason I suggested using Expert Belted Infernape was because of Item Clause. I agree that Life Orb is almost always more useful but the restrictions don't allow it. Perhaps LO Infernape and use Expert Belt Azelf to lure and eliminate Scizor?

I'd actually say that HP Ice is more useful on Jolteon, giving you perfect coverage (except for Magnemite and co.) and allowing you to OHKO Flygon on the switch-in. Swampert is not that relevant a threat in the current metagame with the decline in sweeping Tyranitar and the popularisation of LO Heatran.

To be honest, SkarmBliss beats your team. You may have Infernape but it will quickly get worn down through Life Orb and Flare Blitz recoil as well as hazards. As a predominant stall counter to Infernape is RestTalk Gyarados, I would keep Rock Slide on Infernape.

You really do need Stealth Rocks on your team; unlike Spikes, as suggested by LucaroarkZ, they hit every Pokemon in the game (save Clefable) and help weaken walls like Zapdos and defensive Gyarados which basically wall Scizor, Flygon (sometimes) and Infernape. Therefore I would use the Celebi lead B-Zard suggested, as this provides both momentum early-game and vital pressure on the opponent.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

The reason I suggested using Expert Belted Infernape was because of Item Clause. I agree that Life Orb is almost always more useful but the restrictions don't allow it. Perhaps LO Infernape and use Expert Belt Azelf to lure and eliminate Scizor?

I'd actually say that HP Ice is more useful on Jolteon, giving you perfect coverage (except for Magnemite and co.) and allowing you to OHKO Flygon on the switch-in. Swampert is not that relevant a threat in the current metagame with the decline in sweeping Tyranitar and the popularisation of LO Heatran.

To be honest, SkarmBliss beats your team. You may have Infernape but it will quickly get worn down through Life Orb and Flare Blitz recoil as well as hazards. As a predominant stall counter to Infernape is RestTalk Gyarados, I would keep Rock Slide on Infernape.

You really do need Stealth Rocks on your team; unlike Spikes, as suggested by LucaroarkZ, they hit every Pokemon in the game (save Clefable) and help weaken walls like Zapdos and defensive Gyarados which basically wall Scizor, Flygon (sometimes) and Infernape. Therefore I would use the Celebi lead B-Zard suggested, as this provides both momentum early-game and vital pressure on the opponent.

You didn't read my entire rate. I also suggested him to put Stealth Rock, with a Donphan. Also, he said himself that he cannot get Celebi, already killing that idea off.

He absolutely NEEDS Mach Punch on Infernape. He can get away with it since ExtremeSpeed only has +1 priority this generation, and without it Lucario will 6-0 his team every time without fail, since everything gets torn apart by a +2 Close Combat or ExtremeSpeed. With the amount of Choice item users he has, Lucario will find an opportunity to set up, effectively ending the match. Mach Punch Infernape would prevent that. He has other ways of beating Gyarados anyway.

He's playing this team on Wifi. If he weren't, he wouldn't be using these ridiculous restrictions. This is coming from a Wifi player, no one uses stall on Wifi, and the SkarmBliss combo is a rarity due to the mere existence of MixApe. Also, every team needs some kind of way of hitting Swampert. Scizor already beats Flygon locked into Outrage anyway, and Gliscor is extremely rare on Wifi. Nearly 100% of Gyarados on Wifi are either Offensive Dragon Dance or Bulky Dragon Dance. Hell, RestTalk Gyarados isn't even common on PO; why would it be common on Wifi?

Spikes are also good for his team (which Smeargle can easily get up and also contribute momentum), as they let him damage counters more by U-turning on switches.

I'm not going to argue on this thread anymore. If you wish to continue this argument, please PM me instead. Thanks.