Gen 3 ADV Charizard Revamp (QC 0/2)

StupidFlandrs48

World’s sweatiest casual
is a Pre-Contributor
Charizard Shiny sprite from Emerald

[OVERVIEW]

Charizard is a fearsome threat in ADV OU, with its powerful Fire Blast threatening a large part of the metagame and its great Speed tier allowing it to outspeed or tie with most foes. It is primarily a mixed wallbreaker that is very dangerous for Toxic, Spikes, and Sandstorm (TSS) teams to face. Its STAB Fire Blast alone is excellent at threatening OHKOs on metagame staples like Metagross, Skarmory, Forretress, Magneton, Jirachi, Celebi, Heracross, Breloom, but it is also equipped with great coverage moves like Focus Punch to hit Tyranitar, Beat Up to hit Blissey, and Hidden Power Grass to hit Swampert.

Despite Charizard's poor defenses and many weaknesses to common attacking types like Water, Electric, and Rock, it can also act as a defensive pivot thanks to its key immunities to Earthquake and Will-O-Wisp as well as its resistances to Bug-, Fighting-, Steel-, Fire-, and Grass-type attacks, which allow it to aggressively switch in and generate momentum for its team. Critically, it can act as a one-time switch-in to dangerous threats like Metagross and various Fighting-types, and it can also scare out Gengar if it switches into a Will-O-Wisp.

However, there are many issues preventing Charizard from seeing more usage in OU: first, it competes with Moltres as the premier Fire / Flying-type in OU and it's outclassed by it when it comes to defensive utility and immediate firepower. Second, it is completely walled by defensive Water-types such as Milotic and Suicune.

[SET]
name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Focus Punch / Brick Break
move 4: Beat Up / Substitute / Dragon Claw
item: Leftovers / Petaya Berry
ability: Blaze
nature: Hasty / Mild
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

A mixed attacking set gives Charizard maximum coverage and great wallbreaking power. Fire Blast is Charizard's main STAB attack of choice despite its imperfect accuracy and low PP for its ability to OHKO specially defensive Skarmory, Metagross, and offensive variants of Celebi and Jirachi; it is also worth noting that a Blaze-boosted Fire Blast can OHKO Gengar, turning Charizard into a decent offensive check to Gengar if it switched in on a Will-O-Wisp. Hidden Power Grass hits Swampert hard and deals decent damage to other Water-types like Suicune. Hidden Power Ice threatens to OHKO Salamence and Flygon, which can be better coverage with teammates that exploit the presence of Swampert. Focus Punch threatens to OHKO Tyranitar and 2HKO Blissey. Brick Break is an alternative that hits Tyranitar hard and eliminates the possible need for prediction with Focus Punch, but it should not be expected to damage Blissey much. Thus, Beat Up is an excellent choice for the fourth moveslot, as it usually 2HKOes Blissey. Since Beat Up relies on teammates being healthy, it's best to lure Blissey early in the game. If not using Hidden Power Ice, Dragon Claw can also be used in the last moveslot to 2HKO Salamence and Flygon. Charizard can make good use of Substitute as well, which eases prediction with Focus Punch and helps it safely get into Blaze range and activate Petaya Berry.

Leftovers allows Charizard to survive indefinitely in sandstorm, which is especially useful in Blaze range; however, Petaya Berry is an option worth considering; with Petaya Berry and Blaze boosts, Charizard OHKOes Zapdos with a Fire Blast, OHKOes Swampert with a +1 Hidden Power Grass, and has a good chance to KO Blissey with Fire Blast after it has been hit by Focus Punch. When using Petaya Berry, 30 HP IVs should be used in order to activate it after three uses of Substitute.

The choice between a Hasty or Mild nature mainly depends on whether Charizard is needed to check fast threats such as offensive Celebi, offensive Calm Mind Jirachi, and tie with offensive Zapdos, or if it's more important to maximize Charizard's power in order to help break through walls like Suicune and defensive Starmie, as well as have a chance to KO defensive Swampert with the combination of Fire Blast and Hidden Power Grass. A Naive or Rash nature is also workable, as it allows Charizard to avoid a 2HKO from Agility Metagross in sandstorm; however, this comes at the cost of being far worse at pivoting into Gengar.

Team Options
========

Charizard is mainly featured on mixed offense teams, where it shines as a wallbreaker and sweeper; there, it appreciates partners that can make up for its weaknesses while keeping up offensive momemtum. For example, offensive Swampert can help Charizard pressure Pokemon like Tyranitar and Aerodactyl while checking them defensively thanks to its Rock resistance; similarly, mixed Metagross and, more rarely, mixed Jirachi are seen in conjunction with Swampert to provide an additional defensive backbone. In order to make up for Charizard's Electric- and Water-type weaknesses, a special tank such as utility Snorlax can be very useful; less commonly seen but also effective are offensive Wish Jirachi and offensive Calm Mind Celebi. Celebi is also a good partner because it exploits Milotic and Suicune, which easily wall Charizard, while Charizard can be a decent pivot into Bug- and Fire- type attacks that threaten Celebi. Offensive Suicune is another great mixed Charizard partner, as it can pivot into Water-type attacks for it, and it enjoys having a partner that can blast through Celebi. Fighting-types like Hariyama, Breloom, and Machamp like to pair with Charizard, as they also have a hard time breaking through defensive Celebi on their own. Electric-types, namely Zapdos and Jolteon, can help pressure Water-types for Charizard, and they can also give it safe entry points with Baton Pass against foes like Celebi. Tyranitar is a common sight alongside Charizard, pairing with it as a mixed wallbreaker in the early-game, a late-game Dragon Dance sweeper, or a Pursuit trapper to support Fighting-types like Breloom; it also provides sand support, which is valuable to wear down mixed walls like Curse Snorlax and Milotic.

Charizard is sometimes seen on special offense teams paired with Dugtrio, as it can follow up when Charizard hits Blissey or Snorlax with Focus Punch or Blaze-boosted Fire Blast. Dugtrio also traps Tyranitar, allowing Charizard to spam Fire Blast more freely. Alternatively, one can sacrifice Charizard while it stays in on Tyranitar to use Focus Punch and follow up with a Dugtrio trap in order to prevent a Dragon Dance setup; this tactic is especially useful with bulkier Dugtrio variants that cannot outspeed a boosted Tyranitar. Charizard is also a good recipient of stat boosts from Calm Mind + Baton Pass Celebi, as it easily pivots into Metagross, one of Celebi's most common answers. Charizard is also sometimes seen on Spikes teams, as it enjoys Spikes support from the likes of Skarmory and Cloyster to wear down grounded walls like Milotic, Suicune, Blissey, and Snorlax.

[SET]
name: Sunny Day
move 1: Sunny Day
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Blast Burn / Overheat / Hidden Power Grass / Focus Punch
item: Petaya Berry
ability: Blaze
nature: Modest
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 30 HP

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

With a Sunny Day set combined with other damage multipliers in Blaze and Petaya Berry, Charizard becomes a near-unstoppable wallbreaker. For example, +1 Blaze Fire Blast in the sun OHKOes Snorlax, while Blast Burn has a chance to OHKO even Blissey, making Sunny Day Charizard one of the best special wall lures in the game. Sunny Day and Fire Blast are mandatory moves on this set, as is Substitute, which allows Charizard to reliably reach the Blaze and Petaya Berry ranges that are the keys to its success. For the last slot, Blast Burn is the most obvious choice since it has a chance to OHKO Blissey from full health, although Overheat is also worth considering, for its lack of a recharge turn. Hidden Power Grass is not strictly necessary here because Blaze-boosted Fire Blast in the sun already 2HKOes Swampert; however, it's nice to have an option for the times when it is not possible to set up Sunny Day, and it's also useful to have access to a 100% accurate move to finish off weakened Water-types and Tyranitar with. Focus Punch is also a decent option because it nails Tyranitar trying to switch in and reset the weather. Additionally, Focus Punch helps to dissuade Blissey from using Soft-Boiled, encouraging it to attack and put Charizard into Blaze range.

Team Options
========

Sunny Day Charizard is mainly found on special offense teams that are trying to lure and eliminate special walls and subsequently take advantage of their absence with powerful special sweepers. Dugtrio is the most common member of this archetype because it can trap and remove Tyranitar, therefore facilitating the weather reset with Sunny Day, and it can also trap other special walls like Blissey, Celebi, and Jirachi, clearing the way for special attackers like Suicune and one's own Celebi. Gengar works well with this Charizard, both as a Blissey lure with Explosion and as a special sweeper with its great coverage, which threatens the entire metagame after the walls have been lured by Charizard and Dugtrio. Similarly, Zapdos can lure special walls and Tyranitar by using Baton Pass to trap them with Dugtrio, and it also becomes a massive a threat of its own after they are removed. Suicune is an excellent abuser of Charizard's weather clearing, as it becomes much harder to force it to use Rest when its Leftovers aren't negated by sandstorm. Calm Mind users like Celebi, Jirachi, and Raikou are also staples of this archetype, but less common special sweepers like Kingdra and Ludicolo are also seen.


[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Toxic is a useful middle-ground option that punishes common switch-ins like Tyranitar, Blissey, Swampert, Salamence, and Gyarados without forcing Charizard to make risky predictions. In a similar vein, Overheat can be quite useful on the mixed set to severely dent switch-ins like Tyranitar and most Dragon- and Water-types, and the Special Attack drop is often a nonissue since Charizard enjoys a hit-and-run playstyle anyway. Flamethrower is an alternative Fire-type STAB attack that can be used on the mixed set which has the benefit of perfect accuracy and higher PP, the latter of which is relevant mainly because of Pressure users like Zapdos, Moltres, and Suicune; however, it's almost never seen because it doesn't guarantee an OHKO on specially defensive Skarmory and bulky Metagross. King's Rock is a niche item option that can be used alongside Beat Up, potentially giving Charizard a 60% chance to flinch a slower foe if its team is healthy enough. Charizard can also use a Belly Drum set with Salac Berry, but it is very inconsistent since Charizard is too frail to take most attacks after losing half of its health.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Water-types**: Milotic is Charizard's best counter thanks to its great special bulk and access to Recover, which allows it to heal off any attempt from Charizard to wear it down; additionally, Milotic can survive any sun-boosted attack from the Sunny Day set. Suicune is easier to wear down than Milotic, but it can set up in Charizard's face with Calm Mind; however, it must be careful to switch into Charizard's attacks repeatedly because if it is forced to use Rest, it can become exploitable by Charizard's teammates. Offensive Starmie can switch into Charizard, outspeed it, and threaten to OHKO it with Hydro Pump, but it often lacks Recover and thus cannot heal off the damage, making it only a temporary check. On the other hand, defensive Starmie can attempt to be a long-term solution, but it has to be careful of Charizard staying in and using Hidden Power Grass, as it's a 2HKO while Surf cannot OHKO Charizard back. Although it's somewhat rare, offensive Vaporeon can switch into Charizard easily and threaten to OHKO it with Hydro Pump.

**Rock-types**: Tyranitar can sponge Fire-type attacks and disrupt Sunny Day setups with Sand Stream as well as threaten an OHKO on Charizard with Rock Slide; however, it has to be careful of switching into Focus Punch, and it also has to be afraid of Dugtrio, which very often comes paired with Charizard. Aerodactyl generally survives two attacks from Charizard, so it can switch into it twice to regain momentum in fast-paced games. It's worth noting that Aerodactyl has only one free switch-in against Petaya Berry Charizard; on the second switch, Charizard can enter Petaya Berry range with Substitute and KO Aerodactyl back.

**Blissey**: Blissey takes little damage from Charizard's special attacks, but it must be wary of switching into Focus Punch, as it does upwards of 50% damage, effectively negating Blissey's recovery and forcing it into awkward prediction games with Seismic Toss and Soft-Boiled. Additionally, Charizard's Sunny Day set can use Blissey as setup bait, with its weak attacks comfortably putting Charizard into Blaze range.

**Dragon-types**: Salamence and Flygon both resist Fire-type moves and OHKO Charizard back if packing Rock Slide, although they must be careful of switching into Dragon Claw, as it is a 2HKO against them.

**Fire-types**: Moltres, Charizard, Blaziken, and Houndoom can switch into Charizard's attacks quite safely but can't do much to threaten it back. Houndoom absorbs Fire-type attacks with Flash Fire, but it must watch out for Focus Punch on the switch.

**Electric-types**: Zapdos and Jolteon can switch into Charizard once and force it out with the threat of an OHKO from STAB Thunderbolt, however Zapdos must be careful of a potential Speed tie against Hasty Charizard.

[CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/mikmer.511989/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/stupidflandrs48.633500/
Quality checked by:
Grammar checked by:
 
Last edited:

StupidFlandrs48

World’s sweatiest casual
is a Pre-Contributor
vapicuno Your QC check from the old thread has been fully implemented, I also did a grammar pass since GP would've ripped this to pieces in its previous state.
 

vapicuno

你的价值比自己想象中的所有还要低。我却早已解脱,享受幸福
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Past WCoP Champion
Moderator
blue = add
strikethrough = remove

Charizard Shiny sprite from Emerald

[OVERVIEW]

Charizard is a fearsome threat in ADV OU, with its powerful Fire Blast threatening a large part of the metagame and its great Speed tier allowing it to outspeed or tie with most foes. It is primarily a mixed wallbreaker that is very dangerous for Toxic, Spikes, and Sandstorm (TSS) teams to face. Its STAB Fire Blast alone is excellent at threatening OHKOs on metagame staples like Metagross, Skarmory, Forretress, Magneton, Jirachi, Celebi, Heracross, Breloom, and Venusaur, but it is also equipped with great coverage moves like Focus Punch to hit Tyranitar and, Beat Up to hit Blissey and Hidden Power Grass to hit Swampert.

Despite Charizard's poor defenses and many weaknesses to common attacking types like Water, Electric, and Rock, it can also act as a defensive pivot thanks to its key immunities to Earthquake and Will-O-Wisp as well as its resistances to Bug-, Fighting-, Steel-, Fire-, and Grass-type attacks, which allow it to aggressively switch in and generate momentum for its team. Critically, it can act as a one-time switch-in to dangerous threats like Metagross, Heracross, and Breloom and Fighting-types, and it can also scare out Gengar if it switches into a Will-O-Wisp.

However, there are many issues preventing Charizard from seeing more usage in OU: first, it competes with Moltres as the premier Fire / Flying-type in OU and it's outclassed by it when it comes to defensive utility and immediate firepower. Second, it often relies may need to rely on prediction with Focus Punch in order to be effective against Blissey and Tyranitar, and it's also is completely walled by defensive Water-types such as Milotic and Suicune.

[SET]
name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Focus Punch / Brick Break
move 4: Beat Up / Substitute / Dragon Claw
item: Leftovers / Petaya Berry
ability: Blaze
nature: Hasty / Mild
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

A mixed attacking set gives Charizard maximum coverage and great wallbreaking power. Fire Blast is Charizard's main STAB attack of choice despite its imperfect accuracy and low PP for its ability to OHKO specially defensive Skarmory, Metagross, and offensive variants of Celebi and Jirachi; it is also worth noting that a Blaze-boosted Fire Blast can OHKO Gengar, turning Charizard into a decent offensive check to Gengar if it switched in on a Will-O-Wisp. Hidden Power Grass hits Swampert hard, and also deals decent damage to other Water-types is the best complementary coverage option for a Fire-type for its ability to abuse Swampert's 4x Grass weakness as well as hit other Water-types and Tyranitar for decent damage. Hidden power Ice threatens to OHKO Salamence and Flygon, and could be the better coverage with teammates that exploit the presence of opposing Swampert. Focus Punch is a necessity for Charizard in order to threatens to OHKO Tyranitar and threaten a 2HKO on Blissey, two of its most popular switch-ins. Brick Break is an alternative that hits Tyranitar hard and eliminates the possible need for prediction with Focus Punch, but should not be expected to damage Blissey much. Thus, Beat Up is an excellent the default choice for the fourth moveslot, usually 2HKOing Blissey. , allowing Charizard to reliably finish off Blissey after hitting it with Focus Punch as it switches in. Since However, it's worth noting that Beat Up relies on teammates being healthy, will deal significantly less damage if Charizard's teammates are KOed or statused, meaning it's best to lure Blissey force this interaction early in the game if possible. If not using Hidden Power Ice, Dragon Claw can be used in the last moveslot is another useful option to 2HKO Salamence and Flygon, letting Charizard circumvent two otherwise-excellent checks. Charizard can also make good use of Substitute, which eases prediction with Focus Punch and helps safely get into Blaze range and activate Petaya Berry.

Leftovers grants Charizard a bit more longevity by negating the chip damage from sandstorm and allows it to survive indefinitely even at low health when Blaze is active; however, Petaya Berry is an option worth considering; to boost Charizard's Special Attack to even higher levels, allowing it to with the Petaya Berry boost and Blaze, Charizard OHKOs Zapdos with a +1 Blaze-boosted Fire Blast, and OHKOs Swampert with a +1 Hidden Power Grass. Additionally, a Blaze- and Petaya Berry-boosted Fire Blast and has a good chance to KO Blissey with Fire Blast after it has been hit by Focus Punch. When using Petaya Berry, one should use 30 HP IVs in order to activate it after three uses of Substitute.

I will look at the rest later.
 
Last edited:

StupidFlandrs48

World’s sweatiest casual
is a Pre-Contributor
blue = add
strikethrough = remove

Charizard Shiny sprite from Emerald

[OVERVIEW]

Charizard is a fearsome threat in ADV OU, with its powerful Fire Blast threatening a large part of the metagame and its great Speed tier allowing it to outspeed or tie with most foes. It is primarily a mixed wallbreaker that is very dangerous for Toxic, Spikes, and Sandstorm (TSS) teams to face. Its STAB Fire Blast alone is excellent at threatening OHKOs on metagame staples like Metagross, Skarmory, Forretress, Magneton, Jirachi, Celebi, Heracross, Breloom, and Venusaur, but it is also equipped with great coverage moves like Focus Punch to hit Tyranitar and, Beat Up to hit Blissey and Hidden Power Grass to hit Swampert.

Despite Charizard's poor defenses and many weaknesses to common attacking types like Water, Electric, and Rock, it can also act as a defensive pivot thanks to its key immunities to Earthquake and Will-O-Wisp as well as its resistances to Bug-, Fighting-, Steel-, Fire-, and Grass-type attacks, which allow it to aggressively switch in and generate momentum for its team. Critically, it can act as a one-time switch-in to dangerous threats like Metagross, Heracross, and Breloom and Fighting-types, and it can also scare out Gengar if it switches into a Will-O-Wisp.

However, there are many issues preventing Charizard from seeing more usage in OU: first, it competes with Moltres as the premier Fire / Flying-type in OU and it's outclassed by it when it comes to defensive utility and immediate firepower. Second, it often relies may need to rely on prediction with Focus Punch in order to be effective against Blissey and Tyranitar, and it's also is completely walled by defensive Water-types such as Milotic and Suicune.

[SET]
name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Focus Punch / Brick Break
move 4: Beat Up / Substitute / Dragon Claw
item: Leftovers / Petaya Berry
ability: Blaze
nature: Hasty / Mild
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

A mixed attacking set gives Charizard maximum coverage and great wallbreaking power. Fire Blast is Charizard's main STAB attack of choice despite its imperfect accuracy and low PP for its ability to OHKO specially defensive Skarmory, Metagross, and offensive variants of Celebi and Jirachi; it is also worth noting that a Blaze-boosted Fire Blast can OHKO Gengar, turning Charizard into a decent offensive check to Gengar if it switched in on a Will-O-Wisp. Hidden Power Grass hits Swampert hard, and also deals decent damage to other Water-types is the best complementary coverage option for a Fire-type for its ability to abuse Swampert's 4x Grass weakness as well as hit other Water-types and Tyranitar for decent damage. Hidden power Ice threatens to OHKO Salamence and Flygon, and could be the better coverage with teammates that exploit the presence of opposing Swampert. Focus Punch is a necessity for Charizard in order to threatens to OHKO Tyranitar and threaten a 2HKO on Blissey, two of its most popular switch-ins. Brick Break is an alternative that hits Tyranitar hard and eliminates the possible need for prediction with Focus Punch, but should not be expected to damage Blissey much. Thus, Beat Up is an excellent the default choice for the fourth moveslot, usually 2HKOing Blissey. , allowing Charizard to reliably finish off Blissey after hitting it with Focus Punch as it switches in. Since However, it's worth noting that Beat Up relies on teammates being healthy, will deal significantly less damage if Charizard's teammates are KOed or statused, meaning it's best to lure Blissey force this interaction early in the game if possible. If not using Hidden Power Ice, Dragon Claw can be used in the last moveslot is another useful option to 2HKO Salamence and Flygon, letting Charizard circumvent two otherwise-excellent checks. Charizard can also make good use of Substitute, which eases prediction with Focus Punch and helps safely get into Blaze range and activate Petaya Berry.

Leftovers grants Charizard a bit more longevity by negating the chip damage from sandstorm and allows it to survive indefinitely even at low health when Blaze is active; however, Petaya Berry is an option worth considering; to boost Charizard's Special Attack to even higher levels, allowing it to with the Petaya Berry boost and Blaze, Charizard OHKOs Zapdos with a +1 Blaze-boosted Fire Blast, and OHKOs Swampert with a +1 Hidden Power Grass. Additionally, a Blaze- and Petaya Berry-boosted Fire Blast and has a good chance to KO Blissey with Fire Blast after it has been hit by Focus Punch. When using Petaya Berry, one should use 30 HP IVs in order to activate it after three uses of Substitute.

I will look at the rest later.
Implemented, the "fat trimming" we discussed on Discord is ongoing (I've done it for the rest of the first set so far).
 

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