"All is fair in Love [and War], or is it?"

Chou Toshio

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No, I was saying you need them to even open the door (obviously you're just opening the door). You can't "live" on game with a woman for years (you need actual connection for that), but you need them to have her take you seriously.

here's a direct quote from the OP:

There are so many guys out there, especially in this generation, who possess outstanding kindness, intelligence and compassion-- all the traits woman think they are (and actually are) hoping for in a partner. Unfortunately many of these guys have no idea how to get past the initial social BS. There are so many missed chances because people don't know how to talk heart-to-heart.
Seriously, read please?
 

cim

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I don't think you need to compromise honesty to court a girl at all. Deception isn't really what you're going for, just presenting yourself in a way that's appealing enough to get your foot in the door.

Obviously once you're dating you put down your "game" / presentation, if you had any at all that wasn't natural.
 

Chou Toshio

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Where do you draw the line between "deception" and "presentation" Chris?

Also when rehearsed, rehearsed behavior/persona becomes part of you, so where's the deception? Couldn't you just think of this as a type of self-improvement training?



Also, THIS IS EXPLICITLY NOT MEANT AS A PERSONAL ATTACK OF ANY SORT but . . . Chris, have you ever courted a girl?
 

cim

happiness is such hard work
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I'm currently in a very stable relationship, so yes I have. A few times, though keep in mind I'm a college student.

I was against deception as in outright lying about yourself. If a girl point blank asked you "do you play competitive pokemon" and you said "no" being the obvious and universal example for Smogon. While being honest is distinctly different from being completely forthcoming about every aspect about you, lying about who you actually are is in my opinion immoral. So leave out the nerd talk or the Pokemon discussion right away, but don't actually deny it.

As for rehearsed behavior, that's not really lying about who you are, mainly because rehearsed behavior doesn't actually work on girls until it becomes part of you. It is self improvement training in two ways; it teaches you social cues and it gives you confidence ("if I use this magic phrase any girl will want me"), both of which are pretty important with girls. It's not lying about yourself to hold back compliments so you don't drown the girl in praise or other common follies like that. That's just form.
 

Chou Toshio

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Ok all of that I agree with completely. I'm not too into the "make up another me" thing from an ethical standpoint. Outright lying (creating false info) is definitely a serious border.

I'm sorry Chris for I thought you were Gay >_> Bi? You can just ignore me . . .

BTW if anyone knows I'm perfectly happy hearing about people's takes on "technique" for homosexual pickup. I'd actually be interested to hear how technique changes from guy --> girl to guy --> guy or if it changes at all (as it'd say something about gender differences).
 
BTW if anyone knows I'm perfectly happy hearing about people's takes on "technique" for homosexual pickup. I'd actually be interested to hear how technique changes from guy --> girl to guy --> guy or if it changes at all (as it'd say something about gender differences).
Oh I'd love to help you out there, but beside my ex every other guy I've hooked up with has been a 3 beer queer. Although with my ex I didn't need "game" or anything. We went from friends > relationship.
 
it's probably because you're not sexy. traits like intelligence, and humour are great, but they are all for naught if you can't be erotic/romantic/sexy. my point was that you don't need pick up artist techniques to be sexy. you don't even need to hit on her, if you're sexy enough. the fact is, it's obvious you think you are inept in the romantic department, so if you think you're inept, why should she think of you any differently?
QFT; I've seen people say that making friends with a potential date is bad for your chances because you get locked in the friend zone, as though it's a permanent tarbrushing and compartmentalisation in the date's mind. (It seems to be particularly often invoked by males looking for females).

In reality, the truth is much closer to this, I think. The "friend zone" is not because you showed you share interests etc., but because you didn't show that you were attractive, interested, available, and the other components of the relationship.
 
BTW if anyone knows I'm perfectly happy hearing about people's takes on "technique" for homosexual pickup. I'd actually be interested to hear how technique changes from guy --> girl to guy --> guy or if it changes at all (as it'd say something about gender differences).
The most conspicuous answer is that the complication with homosexuality in general is that your “Pool” of people to choose from is considerably smaller than that of people of a heterosexual orientation. The other problem arises from the fact, that generally speaking (no offense intended), people are heterosexual, and therefore find any homosexual approaches disturbing and disdainful. i.e. you can’t just ask your best friend out. Beyond that, I couldn’t comment on a lot as I am heterosexual. A certain amount of sympathy can be had considering that most people do not need to find out someone’s sexual orientation before pursuing – it’s much more of a problem for homosexuals. I can imagine most homosexuals resort to gatherings, internet perhaps, clubs, to find similarly interested men. It’s probably much harder to just stumble upon a potential partner than it is if you are heterosexual.

Again, I'd like to stress I meant no offense in this post. I classify "most people" as heterosexual because the last time I checked that was an accurate assumption. I have nothing against homosexuality.

On addressing the “lying vs. Presentation” discussion: Basically I view anything as fine excluding outright non-humorous lying; unless you’re going for a “one night stand” approach or whatever. I think doing so is a bit unfair, i.e. pushing the “game” too far. If you go out and tell lies to get laid, not at all being interested in the girl as a person, or a relationship, or what it means to them, then you come under my category of "arsehole".

Like Chris is me said, it’s wrong to actually downright lie to someone, whether you are serious about them or not. You try to focus on your positive attributes for obvious reasons, sell yourself etc. There’s plenty of ways of avoiding things you’re uncomfortable with discussing. It’s never too hard to shift a conversation away from music if that’s not your paramount interest. It’s very rare a girl asks you if you play Pokémon regardless, saying yes would probably be seen as a joke to them anyway. Also on presentation: I don’t think there’s anything wrong with exaggerating or slightly altering your character, in order to attract a girl. If you’re capable of being funny/ sincere/ cheery, then go for it. There’s a difference between making yourself seem a cheerful and fun guy, and lying about being rich and famous (terrible analogy I know, it doesn’t please me so, but there you go).

On the topic in general: it is relavent if you want to find a girl. Unless you are unbelievably attractive or naturally very funny and talkative, you need something on which to sell yourself, get noticed, separate yourself from "every other boy". However, what is essential to understand is that all girls are different, and some take jokes and jibs better than others. Also consider a girl's confidence. It's never as simple as saying "[insert whatever]" 100% guarantees you the girl. For example, it may be a good move to critize an attractive, smart girl. But saying the same small joke/ comment to an unattractive insecure girl could cause them to burst into tears. Aka: have some social understanding, use a bit of common sense, and don't believe everything you are told. But try and be individual in some way as well. Know yourself, know her, know how you should best approach it. You have to sort that out before you can really begin. The approach somewhat changes if you are already friends: I may touch upon that again later.
 

cim

happiness is such hard work
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On addressing the “lying vs. Presentation” discussion: Basically I view anything as fine excluding outright non-humorous lying; unless you’re going for a “one night stand” approach or whatever. I think doing so is a bit unfair, i.e. pushing the “game” too far. If you go out and tell lies to get laid, not at all being interested in the girl as a person, or a relationship, or what it means to them, then you come under my category of "arsehole".
Even then not necessarily I'd say. If you're being deceptive and leading her on into believing you're out for something more than casual sex, yes, but seeking casual sex isn't in and of itself terrible.
 
Even then not necessarily I'd say. If you're being deceptive and leading her on into believing you're out for something more than casual sex, yes, but seeking casual sex isn't in and of itself terrible.
Yes, of course. The exception comes if you are completely open about it. I don't come across many girls who like the idea of "casual sex" regardless. I doubt most men are completely honest to her, and say when they first meet that they just want casual sex, and most women probably are looking for a relationship. Basically, I meant generally it's wrong to lie to someone about your relationship/ intended relationship with them. As most men are not honest or blunt enough to say "I just want sex", most men lie and pretty much take advantage of women. I'm sorry to be making assumptions again, it's not just men, but in general it is. I also see nothing wrong with casual sex.

Of course there's no law against doing so, it's just a moral barrier I personally would not push. I like honesty. I think that it is important and girls deserve honesty considering the amount of pricks there are.
 

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