Almost Any Ability XY (Suspect Over: Weavile banned, Keldeo Stays)

[Throbulator36]

I'm surprised weavile got banned and derpeo didn't given the fact that much more convincing arguments were given for derpeo's brokenness. Not counting the fact that several people actually argued against weavile's brokenness.

Also I have a question: Is it possible to give megas different abilities? You can use the mega as long as you have the mega stone attached and change its ability, but it still defaults to the normal one, such as this

Heracross-Mega @ Heracronite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance

just is skill link, not swift swim. Is there any way to do this?

They have to use their original ability

 

[Monte Cristo]

If anybody complains about this, at least compain In a manner that people can take your argment more seriously than- "council is just mad cuz they lose to it. We totally can ignore all the great pro ban argments while if they ignore one of ours they are at fault" Etc usual complaints. Not insulting anybody, just a warning in case

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

Really surprised to see the Technician ability not getting a lot of attention in this meta.

Garchomp and TTar can both run heavy hitting Quake/Edge combos that cause a -1 speed decrease, via Bulldoze/Rock Tomb. Both have respectable bulk, boosting moves, and can hit really hard with Technician.

 

[ApplepieFTW]

Really surprised to see the Technician ability not getting a lot of attention in this meta.

Garchomp and TTar can both run heavy hitting Quake/Edge combos that cause a -1 speed decrease, via Bulldoze/Rock Tomb. Both have respectable bulk, boosting moves, and can hit really hard with Technician.

Bulldoze: 60 BP, 60*1.5=90. Eq has 100 base power and garchomp is already fast.
Rock Tomb: 60 BP, 60.1.5=90. This is actually better than Stone Edge, which tends to miss too and also helps out ttars speed however if you would use ttar you would most likely want to give it a more useful/powerful ability that allows it to have greater offensive presence or check important threats.

 

[Monte Cristo]

The council had a talk about this and we decided poison heal is not the best course of action till the meta stabilizes. I'm personally pro-ban but my fellow council members are not and convinced me to not do so.

 

[xJownage]

Poison Heal is easily checked by anything with Worry Seed, Gastro Acid, Skill Swap, Entrainment or Simple Beam.
Or if you feel creative, Trick+Pecha Berry permanently removes PH for the rest of the battle.

~mentions all the gimmicky stuff
yep, totally.

I want to see a really convincing argument against poison heal being banned, as people don't seem to see passive recovery as so good.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

Bulldoze: 60 BP, 60*1.5=90. Eq has 100 base power and garchomp is already fast.
Rock Tomb: 60 BP, 60.1.5=90. This is actually better than Stone Edge, which tends to miss too and also helps out ttars speed however if you would use ttar you would most likely want to give it a more useful/powerful ability that allows it to have greater offensive presence or check important threats.

I will admit that there are more offensively inclined abilities, but as offensive support this is a very nice option. Also like you said having a 100% accurate Rock STAB for TTar is an improvement.

Bulldoze: 60 BP, 60*1.5=90. Eq has 100 base power and garchomp is already fast.
Rock Tomb: 60 BP, 60.1.5=90. This is actually better than Stone Edge, which tends to miss too and also helps out ttars speed however if you would use ttar you would most likely want to give it a more useful/powerful ability that allows it to have greater offensive presence or check important threats.

Scizor doesn't need 100BP moves to be a threat. Technician is under rated in this meta IMO.

 

[Monte Cristo]

~mentions all the gimmicky stuff
yep, totally.

I want to see a really convincing argument against poison heal being banned, as people don't seem to see passive recovery as so good.

skill swap is actually very legit in this meta, me and kl4ng have been using it for quite a while, I know some other people can vouch for this, but I see that's not the focus of your post so I digress

xJownage: he is the only one
xJownage: because not one council member plays offense
Seismit0ad: assrat plays balance
xJownage: its like making the entire qhitehouse democratic
Seismit0ad: also xJownage
Seismit0ad: oi plays stall
xJownage: and surrounding yourself with copies
xJownage: they are just inbreeding their own personalities
xJownage: and not getting anything productive done

everybody on the council has played offense multiple times. they test things and know the metagame better than anybody I know, hence why I picked word, kl4ng and assrat for council.

please don't make such statements, I didn't even know if w0rd had a solid playstyle originally, I just knew he had skill in most playstyles and I know him and I know how good in AAA and overall good person he is. (for example)

I know kl4ng plays semi stall/stall with the occasional bisharp or keldeo based balance team (he loves bisharp btw lol, he's the one that gave me and others the adapt bisharp set that gives stall such worries)

asterat is an offense player who will use effective stall teams. that's all you need to know.

I'm a stall player in most tiers but I challenge myself to use offense in AAA, and so far it's worked REALLY well. (infact I have a new offense RMT coming soon)

anyways, making such assumptions isn't going to put things in your favor, neither will insulting my choice of council.
"xJownage: they are just inbreeding their own personalities"
for instance, that. the other council member's don't really actively discuss AAA because they battle more than they talk lol, but I can assure you that they aren't the type of people who you think they are.

bottom line: stop insulting my council (and my friends, as I would later call them ) and also stop fucking acting like you know us enough to talk shit ^_^ when in reality you've only really ever heard me and kl4ng speak enough to even grab an assumption of who we are. please get off your high horse who can feel free to insult authoritative figures just because they have authority and we aren't doing everything you want us to. If you want to bring in this type of behavior and use it against my friends- then please, fuck off ^_^

now if you'd feel free to discuss in a clam fashion, I'd be happy to oblige. ^_^

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

Mandibuzz @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Taunt

If you have issues with stall just disrupt it with something like this. Taunt forces attacks and the rest is obvious.

 

[xJownage]

I really don't see it as insulting, I see it as pointing something out. How I am insulting you by criticizing your choice of council is beyond me.

the rest of the stuff towards the argument

And excuse my words, I meant that they prefer stall to begin with. Lets face it, if we held everything people said in chats against them, there wouldn't be anybody with a good rep.

And when i mean personality, I mean preferred playstyle. Putting a bunch of stall players in one council will create a stall-based metagame, and in general, won't be very productive, because you are trying to put the same people together. Agreement doesn't make production, disagreement does.

Testing offense means nothing about preferred playstyle, which no matter what, WILL deter your decision making. I don't feel i need to go into specifics here, its just stupidity to say that preferred playstyle won't alter decision making ability.

You literally prove it yourself, in that you challenge yourself to play offense. If its more of a challenge, then how is this a balanced metagame??? This isin't my point in general, since I think it is moderately balanced besides the brokenness of poison heal.

I don't assume who you are, and I don't pretend I know you all that well. I do know enough about certain people to know what their mindset will likely be like, and I can see it when they make teams. Its not that hard to figure out adrian marin prefers stall -.-

Anyways, idc about arguing anymore atm, and I don't care for insults atm, since that is exactly what we want to keep off this thread. TBH if you have a problem or retort for this post pm me or message me on showdown rather than have us clogging up the thread with our shit.

Adaptability Keld + Adaptability Bisharp + Taunt Nasty Plot Sheer Force LO Thundy-I rocks for a offensive core. Building around their weaknesses is key, but using those for your offensive core will cause many teams trouble. Significant defensive synergy is key in this meta however, so using stuff that can quickly patch key weaknesses will help.

Volt-Turn in general is really good IMO. Using various Regen sets with bulky volt-turning works really well, and can get the jump on many stall teams, scouting sets and figuring out your opponent's answers to threats. Knowing what cress or cune the opponent is running can make or break battles.

 

[Monte Cristo]

"You literally prove it yourself, in that you challenge yourself to play offense. If its more of a challenge, then how is this a balanced metagame??? This isin't my point in general, since I think it is moderately balanced besides the brokenness of poison heal."

I don't see how it's not a balance metagame just because stall is proffered. it is impossible to sustain a 100% equal meta. somem etas will have accidental bias but it is possible to play both playstyle extremely well

"And when i mean personality, I mean preferred playstyle. Putting a bunch of stall players in one council will create a stall-based metagame, and in general, won't be very productive, because you are trying to put the same people together. Agreement doesn't make production, disagreement does."

And again- how in the fuck do you think you know us?

You don't know anybody and how "stally" they are, and I already cleared it up in the last post. Yes, we all play stall, no shit, we have to play stall or we won't know how the meta is developing and how we an adapt and stabilize the meta, but all of us play offense occasionally. We're not bias toward stall.

I don't know where you get this mentality where if you play a certain playstyle and have authority, you're immediately biased. heck you're an offense player so I could fire shots back by saying "oh you're just trying to make this an offense appealed metagame, get out of here stop ruining our balanced meta pls you offense player" but I don't because that kind of logic is just plain stupid

"Anyways, idc about arguing anymore atm, and I don't care for insults atm, since that is exactly what we want to keep off this thread. TBH if you have a problem or retort for this post pm me or message me on showdown rather than have us clogging up the thread with our shit."
if you don't care then stop freaking trying to insult the council to saying that everybody's a one dimensional stall player who leads to an inefficient metagame and then trying to say "oh that wasn't an insult, it's an observation" do you think I'm free enough(terms of time) to waste my time dealing with this petty passive aggressive shit you're pulling?

if you have an observation or problem with the meta, file a clean report with evidence and and an explanation of why that evidence proves that it's broken, or it's making the meta biased and unhealthy. I don't know why I have to teach you what format to use to properly suggest a change in the metagame or a suspect, I'm not your middle school english teacher.

 

[EV]

=/

 

[xJownage]

Like I said before, you are either asking for the thread to be locked or going to take this to PM. There is a reason I posted with a much lighter tone on the thread before than I did in the room, and its that I don't want this thing to be locked because we can't be mature on a thread. Why you feel you need to make personal attacks is beyond me, since you seem to assume that criticizing somebody is nearly the same as insulting them. If you feel like you need to be aggressive, PM me before the thread gets locked again.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Like I said before, you are either asking for the thread to be locked or going to take this to PM. There is a reason I posted with a much lighter tone on the thread before than I did in the room, and its that I don't want this thing to be locked because we can't be mature on a thread. Why you feel you need to make personal attacks is beyond me, since you seem to assume that criticizing somebody is nearly the same as insulting them. If you feel like you need to be aggressive, PM me before the thread gets locked again.

"Why you feel you need to make personal attacks is beyond me, "
fuck off isn't a personal attack btw, it's telling you not to resort to insulting people who weren't even involved. kl4ng, word and asterat have done nothing to assume what kind of player you are or anything like that so I see no reason to assume things about the council so ignorantly.

If you don't respect people enough to give them the benefit of the doubt when they don't speak for themselves or you are ignorant of them, then people won't display affection towards you either.
"since you seem to assume that criticizing somebody is nearly the same as insulting them. I"
another assumption. i was replying to you acting like you know the council when you don't know them well AT ALL. I was only replying to you thinking the council is filled with one dimensional circle jerkers who aren't productive, which isn't true.

please don't bother replying to this, we both know I'm pro-PH ban, and arguing about this with me like this will get you nowhere. If you want to tag the council and have a sound and reasonable debate, nothing's stopping you. just don't assume who and what they are in terms of battle playstyle.

edit: look back on it, I never insulted you directly, it was always trying to defend the members of the council from your baseless assumptions

edit 2: criticism is fine, but as I said before, make it worth our time and don't talk about us personally like you know how we play or that we're bias. those kinds of insults will get you nowhere with us

 

[Ranger Mike]

Ok unless we want the thread locked again which I kinda want, we all need to calm the fuck down. xJownage if you have nothing nice to say then don't say it at all you accused oi of attacking you and playing victim is not going to hlp because just because I am trying to argue against your misguided assumptions does not mean I hate you or anything. Monte Cristo you just need to not get into these kind of things as it's not going to have a good impact on the popularity of the meta should you be arguing like this.
TL;DR

 

[Klang]

Honestly, it should be noted that the Weavile ban was a buff for offense, since one of the main reasons offense was hard to use was preparing for something with a blistering base 125 speed and an insanely powerful STAB move. Every offensive team almost needed Scizor-Mega really. Stall on the other hand didnt have much issues packing one of the ten or so counters since it really doesn't mind the defensive backbone. The Weavile ban makes offense easier to use, and I look forward to experimenting with it.

To change the subject, something for offensive teams that strikes me as more viable with Weavile banned is Protean Landorus-I:

Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Knock Off
- Focus Blast
- Earthquake
- Grass Knot

The moves aren't exactly set in stone since Landorus has so many options, but this thing looks like it's absurdly hard to wall, as it does ridiculous amounts to common walls in the tier. For example:

4 SpA Life Orb Protean Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 253-300 (75.7 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Protean Landorus Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 283-335 (70 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Landorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 179-213 (49.1 - 58.5%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Protean Landorus Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Regirock: 252-299 (69.2 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Landorus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Goodra: 235-278 (61.1 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Landorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Goodra: 242-286 (63 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Landorus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 257-304 (57.8 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Now that is some outright scary shit.

The only thing I can even think of which counters this thing is PH Vaporeon, due to the fact that grass knot is only 40BP against it. Even that takes 42-50% from each of Lando's moves.
thank god I use vappy

 

[Trainer_ZER0]

how come my mega's (wanted) abilty doesnt show?
mega ttar, i wanted filter, but showed sand stream in the battle..

 

[Uselesscrab]

how come my mega's (wanted) abilty doesnt show?
mega ttar, i wanted filter, but showed sand stream in the battle..

The Megas get their default abilities. You can only control the abilities of their base forms.

 

[Pagoose]

So early bird and harvest sound like cool abilities for defensive mons without recovery, 1 turn rest a chesto rest with harvest on rhyperior/regirock/registeel. Also how are people countering keldeo on stall? It looks to me like the only counters are things like water absorb ghosts or 4x fighting resists:

252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 153-180 (42 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 180-214 (44.5 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 214-254 (48.1 - 57.2%) -- 43% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I must be missing something, how is this not banned?

 

[Zewwok]

If you are having trouble with Keldeo, try celebi:

252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 138-163 (34.1 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celebi: 129-152 (31.9 - 37.6%) -- 91.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 176-210 (54.4 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Plus this can spread leech seed, use heal bell and wall suicune. Handy little pixie.

 

[Monte Cristo]

or you can try actually putting more sdef into mega venu, that always works for me

 

[Pagoose]

Well:
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 116-137 (31.8 - 37.6%) -- 91.2% chance to 3HKO

So you basically have to synthesis every time, or else you get 2hkod next time. Doesn't seem very reliable. Same with Celebi as after stealth rocks you're taking almost 50%.

 

[Zewwok]

If you are REALLY having problems with Keldeo, try Doublade:

Keldeo Secret Sword vs. Doublade: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time
Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. Water Absorb Doublade: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time
252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 70-84 (21.6 - 26%) -- 2.5% chance to 4HKO

Plus this can spread toxic, and wall most fighting types. Handy little sword thing.

Oh, and using something like AV Tentacruel works too. Regenerator ensures you can reliably come back in to wall it, and you can knock off it's specs to make it easier to handle, then spam acid spray to make it run away.

 

[Pagoose]

If you are REALLY having problems with Keldeo, try Doublade:

Keldeo Secret Sword vs. Doublade: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time
Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. Water Absorb Doublade: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time
252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 70-84 (21.6 - 26%) -- 2.5% chance to 4HKO

Plus this can spread toxic, and wall most fighting types. Handy little sword thing.

Oh, and using something like AV Tentacruel works too. Regenerator ensures you can reliably come back in to wall it, and you can knock off it's specs to make it easier to handle, then spam acid spray to make it run away.

I've mostly been experimenting, I'm not having trouble because I've been trying offensive teams but it just seems to me that it would be too powerful to counter unless you have a water absorb ghost or 4x resist like togekiss.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Energy Ball
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Psychic

This is a set I came up with to break walls and I must say it easily shreds anything that isn't Chansey.
Chandelure has one of the best base special attack stats in the entire game. This set has ripped apart Unaware Crocune and Unaware Cresselia with little to no effort. Shadow ball is usually an OHKO for any flash fire Skarm who wants to switch in and 2hko for most Ferro variants.


Also if you are having trouble with Chansey, you can really catch a lot of people off guard with Goodra.

Goodra @ Choice Band
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Def
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Power Whip
- Iron Tail
- Earthquake

Outrage ftw OHKO.